Background checks in Colorado stop 38 from buying guns who were convicted of ....

[Esmeralda]

No dumbass, I know people that did, are you really naive enough to believe it's hard to get a weapon? How do people get guns in Chicago to kill hundreds each year? You know it's impossible to buy a gun in Chicago that the USSC told them to stop those laws? Places that it's hard to get a gun legally? Oakland, Memphis, Chicago, Detroit, seeing a pattern here? if you dont look at the top 10 murder rates in cities.

Why do you need to call me a name? I've been respectful to you. Is that how you respond to people who are respectful to you? Using crude insults in a debate simply shows your own limitations and minimizes anything you have to say.,

In Chicago, it is the criminal element who are getting guns from each other, not ordinary citizens who are getting guns. These are gangs, killing each other, not ordinary citizens killing ordinary citizens. Those top murder rates are in cities with big ghettos and lots of gang violence. They don't have much to do with ordinary people living in the average neighborhood in the US.

The actual issue is for the police to work on getting rid of gangs, not allowing ordinary citizens to have unlimited firearms and ammunition so that no one is safe anywhere because some ordinary citizen decides to murder his/her spouse or go nuts and kill a bunch of people.

Ok hang on.....the criminal element? So my question is what does it matter what ordinary, law abiding citizens have? It doesnt. Criminals ALREADY get guns, and they have illegal guns, like automatic weapons and such, they're not stealing those from ordinary folks.
The reason we shouldnt limit guns is, that is our way to protect us from the government. Now most would say with tanks and F22s how could we compete, well it woudl be difficult, my question is why do the big government folks want our guns?
It's not saving lives, heck they let thse morons back on the street.

This is not 1776. The government is not going to take over and create a totalitarian regime. We have 200 years of proof that our democracy works. With the military weaponry that exists nowadays, something like the Civil War in the US is not possible. It is a different world. We solve our problems through voting and legislature, not with guns. We are not a 3rd world country. And, as you say, it is unrealistic to think that ordinary folks could stage an insurrection against tanks and other military power. So, the idea of needing to be armed against the government is, in modern times, moot. Unrealistic and unnecessary.

The gun control advocates are not saying that all guns should be eliminated. They are focused on people having too many guns, high powered guns, and unlimited ammunition...things that are unnecessary in basic personal protection or hunting. They are looking to do what other modern countries have done in the way of gun control, countries whose gun murder rate is half what it is in the US.

The police need to be focusing on crime, on criminals with guns, getting rid of gangs, etc. Although criminals do find a way to get guns from each other, many of those guns were legally purchased or were stolen from people who legally purchased them. As seen in other countries, when the legal purchase of guns is limited, there is also a decrease in the ownership of guns by criminals. Those are facts we can see by looking at the statistics in other countries.

 

[Politico]

No one has a problem with background checks. What's your point?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Why do you need to call me a name? I've been respectful to you. Is that how you respond to people who are respectful to you? Using crude insults in a debate simply shows your own limitations and minimizes anything you have to say.,

In Chicago, it is the criminal element who are getting guns from each other, not ordinary citizens who are getting guns. These are gangs, killing each other, not ordinary citizens killing ordinary citizens. Those top murder rates are in cities with big ghettos and lots of gang violence. They don't have much to do with ordinary people living in the average neighborhood in the US.

The actual issue is for the police to work on getting rid of gangs, not allowing ordinary citizens to have unlimited firearms and ammunition so that no one is safe anywhere because some ordinary citizen decides to murder his/her spouse or go nuts and kill a bunch of people.

Ok hang on.....the criminal element? So my question is what does it matter what ordinary, law abiding citizens have? It doesnt. Criminals ALREADY get guns, and they have illegal guns, like automatic weapons and such, they're not stealing those from ordinary folks.
The reason we shouldnt limit guns is, that is our way to protect us from the government. Now most would say with tanks and F22s how could we compete, well it woudl be difficult, my question is why do the big government folks want our guns?
It's not saving lives, heck they let thse morons back on the street.

This is not 1776. The government is not going to take over and create a totalitarian regime. We have 200 years of proof that our democracy works. With the military weaponry that exists nowadays, something like the Civil War in the US is not possible. It is a different world. We solve our problems through voting and legislature, not with guns. We are not a 3rd world country. And, as you say, it is unrealistic to think that ordinary folks could stage an insurrection against tanks and other military power. So, the idea of needing to be armed against the government is, in modern times, moot. Unrealistic and unnecessary.

The gun control advocates are not saying that all guns should be eliminated. They are focused on people having too many guns, high powered guns, and unlimited ammunition...things that are unnecessary in basic personal protection or hunting. They are looking to do what other modern countries have done in the way of gun control, countries whose gun murder rate is half what it is in the US.

The police need to be focusing on crime, on criminals with guns, getting rid of gangs, etc. Although criminals do find a way to get guns from each other, many of those guns were legally purchased or were stolen from people who legally purchased them. As seen in other countries, when the legal purchase of guns is limited, there is also a decrease in the ownership of guns by criminals. Those are facts we can see by looking at the statistics in other countries.

You really believe that? Why do liberals think just a year is magical, it's 2013 and all of a sudden it's awesome.....it's just a year, for people it doesnt mean crap. Why would you want to take guns from people then?

Who determines how many guns I need, and I can shoot one maybe two at once, so who cares if you have 50?
High capacity clips, you realize people can have several clips on a belt and just reload, it takes like 5 seconds to do it, and that's if you're slow. so instead of a 30 shot clip, they'll have 5 10 shot clips.....not changing anything.

So where do people in Chicago go? A random shooting by a nutjob doesnt make a policy. I'd rather tackle the real problem, in gun controlled areas of people dying by the hundreds and people like you not caring. but a white kid gets shot, oh my, lets call a news conference.

And it is important to be armed, because the insurgents fought back and did it long enough for us to give up...yeah guns are important to liberty back in 1776 and they are today.

but Im glad you showed your true colors by stating that you dont think guns have an impact on security and liberty. Liberals like you dont like the constitution and like to just make shit up as you go.

 

[editec]

Background checks are at best a partial response to the problem of guns in the hands of criminals.

 

[NoNukes]

Great, now they'll buy even more powerful guns on the black market.

Where IS that black market, pray tell? Do you know? Does anyone really know if it really exists or where it is? I assume that it wouldn't be at a stationary spot where a raid could take place. So, it probably moves, assuming it exists. Would you know how to find it? And would YOU just blindly show up in some dark alley late at night with a wad of hundred dollar bills to buy a gun? Don't you think it's likely that a person that naive is just likely to get robbed (or worse) by someone who knows you're not going to go to the police to report why you were in that dark alley in the first place?

when dealing with criminals "caveat emptor" is vital to your survival.

But to your question. I could go to a safe location in New Orleans today and buy any kind of gun that I wanted. The price would be higher than a gun shop, but they are available--and no background checks, imagine that.

If you can find the black market for guns, do you report it to the police?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Where IS that black market, pray tell? Do you know? Does anyone really know if it really exists or where it is? I assume that it wouldn't be at a stationary spot where a raid could take place. So, it probably moves, assuming it exists. Would you know how to find it? And would YOU just blindly show up in some dark alley late at night with a wad of hundred dollar bills to buy a gun? Don't you think it's likely that a person that naive is just likely to get robbed (or worse) by someone who knows you're not going to go to the police to report why you were in that dark alley in the first place?

when dealing with criminals "caveat emptor" is vital to your survival.

But to your question. I could go to a safe location in New Orleans today and buy any kind of gun that I wanted. The price would be higher than a gun shop, but they are available--and no background checks, imagine that.

I do believe that sometimes criminals can find a way to get a gun from another criminal. That sometimes someone really desperate will find a way to get a guy. But I think you are basing your idea of a 'black market' on watching TV and movies. If there is a place that you, an ordinary law-abiding citizen, knows of where you can go and buy an illegal gun, why don't you tell the police, why don't you turn these people in? And if it is so obvious and easy, why don't the police know about it? Why don't they bust these people? Because there is no 'black market,' there is no place where ordinary people know to just go and buy a gun. If it was that easy, all those people with records that the background check stopped would have gone there instead because they would know a background check would keep them from getting a legal gun.

You're lying! I could get a gun tomorrow, if I wanted to...just talk to the right guy in Dorchester, Mattapan, or Lowell. They don't get busted because I suspect half their guns walk through the back door of the police station.

 

[Oddball]

This is not 1776.

Platitudinous red herring.

The government is not going to take over and create a totalitarian regime.

Comparing the complaints in the Declaration of Independence to the gubmint I see today, a totalitarian regime has been in place for quite awhile.

We have 200 years of proof that our democracy works.

Democracy always devolves into despotism...The framers knew this, why don't you?

With the military weaponry that exists nowadays, something like the Civil War in the US is not possible. It is a different world.

More vapid platitudes.

We solve our problems through voting and legislature, not with guns.

ORLY?...What means does the legislature employ to enforce the laws it foists upon the populace?

We are not a 3rd world country. And, as you say, it is unrealistic to think that ordinary folks could stage an insurrection against tanks and other military power.

Never heard of posse comitatus, have you?

So, the idea of needing to be armed against the government is, in modern times, moot. Unrealistic and unnecessary.

Yes...Better to just lay down and just be a good little victim.

The gun control advocates are not saying that all guns should be eliminated.

Quite a number of them actually are...You should get out more.

They are focused on people having too many guns, high powered guns, and unlimited ammunition...

"Too many" guns?..."Unlimited ammunition"?

... things that are unnecessary in basic personal protection or hunting.

Who gets to decide for me what is "necessary" and what isn't?...The 2nd Amendment isn't about duck hunting.

They are looking to do what other modern countries have done in the way of gun control, countries whose gun murder rate is half what it is in the US.

Different cultures account for that as much as anything else.

The police need to be focusing on crime, on criminals with guns, getting rid of gangs, etc. Although criminals do find a way to get guns from each other, many of those guns were legally purchased or were stolen from people who legally purchased them.

So, an admission that background checks are an ineffective Kabuki dance...Even a blind squirrel....

As seen in other countries, when the legal purchase of guns is limited, there is also a decrease in the ownership of guns by criminals. Those are facts we can see by looking at the statistics in other countries.

In other countries that have banned guns, their violent crime rates have skyrocketed...The criminals just use other weapons against completely unarmed victims.

 

[Oddball]

No one has a problem with background checks. What's your point?

I do...They're a total waste of time, effort and money.

 

[Old Rocks]

​

They have not been stopped from buying guns. Just stopped from legally buying guns.

Well now, you just made the best arguement for background checks on private gun sales.

Tell you what, we need to make it a felony to sell a gun to a felon. You do the background check, or you face the possibility of doing time.

 

[Old Rocks]

No one has a problem with background checks. What's your point?

I do...They're a total waste of time, effort and money.

Background checks in Colorado stop 38 from buying guns who were convicted of homicides, 600 burglars, 1300 who committed felonious assaults, 400 had existing restraining orders were stopped, and 236 showed up to pick up their guns but were arrested because of existing warrants for violent felonies

Sure, Oddie, sure. Maybe you cannot pass one?

 

[Redfish]

Where IS that black market, pray tell? Do you know? Does anyone really know if it really exists or where it is? I assume that it wouldn't be at a stationary spot where a raid could take place. So, it probably moves, assuming it exists. Would you know how to find it? And would YOU just blindly show up in some dark alley late at night with a wad of hundred dollar bills to buy a gun? Don't you think it's likely that a person that naive is just likely to get robbed (or worse) by someone who knows you're not going to go to the police to report why you were in that dark alley in the first place?

when dealing with criminals "caveat emptor" is vital to your survival.

But to your question. I could go to a safe location in New Orleans today and buy any kind of gun that I wanted. The price would be higher than a gun shop, but they are available--and no background checks, imagine that.

If you can find the black market for guns, do you report it to the police?

the police are already aware of the black market for guns, they raid them almost daily and pick up hundreds of guns. But its a moving target with lots or money and lots of resources.

background checks would do nothing to stop or slow the black market, they would actually make it more lucrative for the criminals.

 

[Redfish]

​

They have not been stopped from buying guns. Just stopped from legally buying guns.

Well now, you just made the best arguement for background checks on private gun sales.

Tell you what, we need to make it a felony to sell a gun to a felon. You do the background check, or you face the possibility of doing time.

do you guys honestly think that two gangbangers in south central LA, the southside of Chicago, or central city in new orleans are going to run a background check on each other when they sell guns to each other? are you really that naive?

 

[NoNukes]

when dealing with criminals "caveat emptor" is vital to your survival.

But to your question. I could go to a safe location in New Orleans today and buy any kind of gun that I wanted. The price would be higher than a gun shop, but they are available--and no background checks, imagine that.

If you can find the black market for guns, do you report it to the police?

the police are already aware of the black market for guns, they raid them almost daily and pick up hundreds of guns. But its a moving target with lots or money and lots of resources.

background checks would do nothing to stop or slow the black market, they would actually make it more lucrative for the criminals.

You did not answer my question. And if the police are aware of them and raid them, then it must be more difficult for someone who fails a background check to buy one on the black market.

 

[Esmeralda]

This is not 1776.

Platitudinous red herring.

The government is not going to take over and create a totalitarian regime.

Comparing the complaints in the Declaration of Independence to the gubmint I see today, a totalitarian regime has been in place for quite awhile.


Democracy always devolves into despotism...The framers knew this, why don't you?


More vapid platitudes.

ORLY?...What means does the legislature employ to enforce the laws it foists upon the populace?


Never heard of posse comitatus, have you?


Yes...Better to just lay down and just be a good little victim.

Quite a number of them actually are...You should get out more.

"Too many" guns?..."Unlimited ammunition"?

Who gets to decide for me what is "necessary" and what isn't?...The 2nd Amendment isn't about duck hunting.


Different cultures account for that as much as anything else.

The police need to be focusing on crime, on criminals with guns, getting rid of gangs, etc. Although criminals do find a way to get guns from each other, many of those guns were legally purchased or were stolen from people who legally purchased them.

So, an admission that background checks are an ineffective Kabuki dance...Even a blind squirrel....

As seen in other countries, when the legal purchase of guns is limited, there is also a decrease in the ownership of guns by criminals. Those are facts we can see by looking at the statistics in other countries.

In other countries that have banned guns, their violent crime rates have skyrocketed...The criminals just use other weapons against completely unarmed victims.

Provide evidence please. I think your statement is completely incorrect, so please provide evidence.

"a totalitarian regime has been in place for quite awhile" If you think the US government is a totalitarian regime, then you have absolutely no idea what a totalitarian regime is. People like you are not even worth trying to discuss anything with because your version of reality is completely illusionary: a paranoid, screwy, psychotic version of the truth.

 

[Redfish]

If you can find the black market for guns, do you report it to the police?

the police are already aware of the black market for guns, they raid them almost daily and pick up hundreds of guns. But its a moving target with lots or money and lots of resources.

background checks would do nothing to stop or slow the black market, they would actually make it more lucrative for the criminals.

You did not answer my question. And if the police are aware of them and raid them, then it must be more difficult for someone who fails a background check to buy one on the black market.

OK, to your question, if I personally knew of someone who was dealing in illegal gun sales I would tell the police.

now, to your naivete, no one buying a gun illegally submits to a background check, they already know that they would not pass it.

it would be impossible to enforce background checks on personal gun sales----unless all guns were registered with the govt--------do you think maybe thats the real goal of the leftists in DC? registration makes confiscation much easier.

WAKE THE FUCK UP

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Everyone has a right to self defense and should be allowed guns. Background checks are unethical and unconstitutional.

 

[asaratis]

They have not been stopped from buying guns. Just stopped from legally buying guns.

Apparently, if you believe NBC news division, the same news division that oversees MSNBC news, which has been thanked for helping to push for new gun laws by elected Democrats, then all that has happened is people already forbidden to own a gun by law have been stopped from buying a gun through a FFL merchant.

That doesn't mean they have been stopped from buying a gun through other means.

Remember those strawman purchases authorized by Obama's and Holder's DOJ that ended up killing hundreds of Mexicans in Mexico and more than a few U.S. Citizens here on U.S. soil?

Symbolism over substance....that is all we have in the emotional, knee jerk proposals for more gun control by those that blindly parrot each other in saying that criminals will be hampered by some new laws. It's a "feel good" gesture, driven by emotion rather than reason. For the politicians, it represents a new lie that can be useful to them in attracting emotional votes in their next election effort.

 

[NoNukes]

the police are already aware of the black market for guns, they raid them almost daily and pick up hundreds of guns. But its a moving target with lots or money and lots of resources.

background checks would do nothing to stop or slow the black market, they would actually make it more lucrative for the criminals.

You did not answer my question. And if the police are aware of them and raid them, then it must be more difficult for someone who fails a background check to buy one on the black market.

OK, to your question, if I personally knew of someone who was dealing in illegal gun sales I would tell the police.

now, to your naivete, no one buying a gun illegally submits to a background check, they already know that they would not pass it.

it would be impossible to enforce background checks on personal gun sales----unless all guns were registered with the govt--------do you think maybe thats the real goal of the leftists in DC? registration makes confiscation much easier.

WAKE THE FUCK UP

All of these people in Colorado were denied guns and some were arrested. It was pointed out that they could just buy them on the black market.

 

[Redfish]

You did not answer my question. And if the police are aware of them and raid them, then it must be more difficult for someone who fails a background check to buy one on the black market.

OK, to your question, if I personally knew of someone who was dealing in illegal gun sales I would tell the police.

now, to your naivete, no one buying a gun illegally submits to a background check, they already know that they would not pass it.

it would be impossible to enforce background checks on personal gun sales----unless all guns were registered with the govt--------do you think maybe thats the real goal of the leftists in DC? registration makes confiscation much easier.

WAKE THE FUCK UP

All of these people in Colorado were denied guns and some were arrested. It was pointed out that they could just buy them on the black market.

I guess that only says that criminals in Colorado are stupid, what other conclusion can be drawn from that?

 

[WethePeopleUS]

You did not answer my question. And if the police are aware of them and raid them, then it must be more difficult for someone who fails a background check to buy one on the black market.

OK, to your question, if I personally knew of someone who was dealing in illegal gun sales I would tell the police.

now, to your naivete, no one buying a gun illegally submits to a background check, they already know that they would not pass it.

it would be impossible to enforce background checks on personal gun sales----unless all guns were registered with the govt--------do you think maybe thats the real goal of the leftists in DC? registration makes confiscation much easier.

WAKE THE FUCK UP

All of these people in Colorado were denied guns and some were arrested. It was pointed out that they could just buy them on the black market.

And just how do you think guns make it on the "black market?" Are they shipped to a black market store after leaving the factory? My guess is that the guns on the black market, were once on the "normal market" and were sold by others to those who can't buy guns.