Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[JustTheFacts]

Well I am happy that Catz, Amy, et al are all quite secure with their conclusions on this subject. I share no such confidence as I don't know what or who to believe yet. I don't believe Catz and what she says her job is for a single minute though, because someone in the position she claims would not continually and repeatedly misstate and mischaracterize my position, intent, belief, bias, etc. etc. etc. as she has consistently done. Or if she is in that kind of business, we're all in really big trouble.

But I am no more eager to be contentious now than when I started. And I trust that the more careful readers are reading my particular stance on this correctly. I have really appreciated those who have given some careful thought to the subject and I have read and noted each of your opinions and contributions and believe they should all be part of the mix. I have also noted a pretty wide diversity of opinion which I think is why there is no clear consensus anywhere on this yet. God bless those who think they have it all figured out.

Out for the night. Ya'll all have a good one.

I guess im confused bc outside of if she was in the videogame industry I dont see how her profession would be germane to the subject.

 

[auditor0007]

NOTE: Clean debate zone thread here. . . .

This morning I was listening to a concept put out by a military psychologist who suggests that it is not guns that are the problem in a 'violent America', but rather the changed American culture. Violent concepts are prevalent in our television programs, movies, comic books, music, and most especially in video games that are available in large quantities to very young children.

His theory is that this is desensitizing young people to violence and even exalting and promoting it.

Are video games conditioning kids to accept violence as virtue? As the way to get things accomplished? To win? To reach the pinnacle of success? In many/most of video games out there, it is necessary to be ruthless in order to win the game. Does this change the way people view their world in an unhealthy way?

If you do see this as a problem, how do you get around censorship as being somehow better than gun control? Do you want the government to have power in that area?

Or is there a way for the public/radio/Hollywood to self censor itself as it once did? And should we push for that?

Or maybe you don't see it as a problem at all?

For most kids, and even adults, I don't see video games being a problem. I did say most though. Unfortunately, for some who may have mental issues to begin with, I can see where some of these games and all the violence seen on television could play a part in some of these people doing what they do.

 

[catzmeow]

For most kids, and even adults, I don't see video games being a problem. I did say most though. Unfortunately, for some who may have mental issues to begin with, I can see where some of these games and all the violence seen on television could play a part in some of these people doing what they do.

For someone who considers killing children a way to obtain fame and glory, there are many sources of inspiration. The Oklahoma City bombers were influenced by books such as The Turner Diaries and The Anarchist's Cookbook.

The Turner Diaries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They were also influenced by media coverage of the ATF's Branch Davidian raid on April 19, 1993, and planned their attack to synchronize with the anniversary of Waco (April 19, 1995).

The Columbine killers were influenced by media coverage of the Oklahoma City bombing, and in fact planned their attack on the anniversary of the OKC bombing (April 19, 1999).

Should we ban books and news coverage?

Video games clearly don't cause people to become mass murderers. If they did, with 97% of 12-17 year olds consuming video games, we'd have experienced a massive increase in mass murders, which we did not.

If video games even inspired juveniles to commit crime in general, juvenile crime in America would have increased as video game consumption by 12-17 year olds began rapidly increasing during the period from 1995 (when the playstation gaming console was introduced with far higher resolution graphics than any prior gaming consoles) through 2012, when the population of juveniles was almost completely saturated with access to video gaming consoles.

In contrast, juvenile arrests in the U.S. fell dramatically from 1995-2012:

The introduction of high resolution gaming systems corresponded to the largest drop in juvenile arrest rates since we started tracking that figure nationally. According to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention ((OJJDP), which tracks juvenile arrest and criminal data:

The juvenile Violent Crime Index arrest rate reached a historic low in 2009 and is down 12% since 2006.

Source: Juvenile Arrest Rate Trends

One interesting thing I've observed is high rates of violent game usage by gang-involved clients in recent years. I was working in Denver during September and went out to visit clients with local program personnel. I found it very interesting that not once, but in several instances, gang-involved clients brought up the fact that they'd decided to "stay at home and shoot people on x-box" instead of going out into the community and hanging out with the gang. This decision to stay at home and play video games had a corresponding effect on their individual rate of offending. When these individuals aren't spending large amounts of time unsupervised in the community with other socially deviant peers, they commit fewer crimes.

Here is some information from research on both persistent offenders and current brain development studies on subjects that affect delinquency.

The starting line, and something that is well established over the last 20+ years is that low adrenaline excretion is characteristic of persistent offenders:

Adolescent Problem Behaviors: Issues and Research - Robert D. Ketterlinus, Michael E. Lamb - Google Books

Exposure to childhood maltreatment, particularly as an infant, results in impaired limbic (adrenaline) function. Current research on brain development shows a correlation between childhood trauma from abuse/neglect/violence exposure and disassociative disorders and PTSD, which impair adrenaline/limbic function.

Child Maltreatment and Brain Development
http://www.google.com/url?url=http:...opment&usg=AFQjCNGOra298EUetLgB9Xbw-c-H6G8KDg (this link downloads a PDF article)

Individuals with impaired limbic/adrenaline function require higher levels of stimulus to experience normal levels of adrenaline function, and their reactions to stress are vastly different from those of normal individuals.

I think it would be interesting for researchers to track arrest rates for gang members immediately following the release of high profile FPS video games to see if there is any effect on criminal involvement by this age group. After my experience in Denver, I would actually be prepared to argue that people who experience a rush of adrenaline from involvement in criminal activity may well experience that same rush of adrenaline from playing one of these FPS games. A lot of gang members (and cops, for that matter) are adrenaline addicts.

Many gang members were exposed to violent/traumatic childhood experiences that was likely to have affected their brain development. I would contend that they seek out high risk and adrenaline-creating situations to experience the rush of adrenaline. If these individuals can get their "adrenaline fix" from an intense first-person shooter game, and that meets their need for adrenaline, it is entirely possible that the existence of these gaming consoles is correlated to drops in violent juvenile crime.

The same scenario is now being theorized to occur in conjunction with the availability of pornography.

There is an inverse relationship between rape and pornography. The higher the level of access to pornography, the lower the rate of rape.

ScienceDirect.com - Aggression and Violent Behavior - The pleasure is momentary?the expense damnable?: The influence of pornography on rape and sexual assault

Victimization rates for rape in the United States demonstrate an inverse relationship between pornography consumption and rape rates. Data from other nations have suggested similar relationships. Although these data cannot be used to determine that pornography has a cathartic effect on rape behavior, combined with the weak evidence in support of negative causal hypotheses from the scientific literature, it is concluded that it is time to discard the hypothesis that pornography contributes to increased sexual assault behavior.

The theory that access to pornography ameliorates the need for some individuals to rape has not yet been substantiated, but current research makes it clear that access to and use of pornography is correlated to lower rates of rape. For some individuals, it may be true that watching porn meets their need for stimulation that would other be achieved through comission of sex crimes.

Access to violent video games has coincided with the single largest drop in violent crime in U.S. history.

i'm starting to believe that a lot of the studies that have been so influential with some posters in this thread have the relationship backwards.

Perhaps, in some cases, as I observed with gang members in Denver, the access to the adrenaline rush provided by these intense video games ameliorates the need for some violent offenders to commit acts of violence. In other words, violent video game use stimulates the same regions of the brain as are likely stimulated during the commission of a crime.

Having said all of this, there is a baseline, inaccurate belief in this thread, which is that "children are routinely sheltered and protected from violence." In the case of persistent and/or violent offenders, that assumption does not hold true. In fact, exposure to childhood violence is a risk factor for commission of violent acts as a juvenile. That childhood exposure to real violence (abuse from parent, violence between parents, between neighbors, between mom and her abusive boyfriend) changes the process of brain development, creates impaired adrenaline function, and normalizes violent behavior for children and makes it seem acceptable.

These games, especially for children who grow up in these circumstances, are a minor blip on their trauma meters in comparison to the reality they've experienced at firsthand.

Here is some data on the level of childhood exposure to real life violence in America:

More than 60 percent of the children surveyed were exposed to violence within the past year, either directly or indirectly (i.e., as a witness to a violent act; by learning of a violent act against a family member, neighbor, or close friend; or from a threat against their home or school)

Nearly one-half of the children and adolescents surveyed (46.3 percent) were assaulted at least once in the past year, and more than 1 in 10 (10.2 percent) were injured in an assault; 1 in 4 (24.6 percent) were victims of robbery, vandalism, or theft; 1 in 10 (10.2 percent) suffered from child maltreatment (including physical and emotional abuse, neglect, or a family abduction); and 1 in 16 (6.1 percent) were victimized sexually. More than 1 in 4 (25.3 percent) witnessed a violent act and nearly 1 in 10 (9.8 percent) saw one family member assault another. Multiple victimizations were common: more than one-third (38.7 percent) experienced 2 or more direct victimizations in the previous year, more than 1 in 10 (10.9 percent) experienced 5 or more direct victimizations in the previous year, and more than 1 in 75 (1.4 percent) experienced 10 or more direct victimizations in the previous year.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/227744.pdf

The posters here are interested in portrayals of violence on the television screen, but the sad reality is that MANY children in America grow up watching their family members and neighbors assault, stab, beat, and shoot each other.

The impact of a video game, when weighed against these real life experiences of violence is laughable.

In fact, those 1 in 16 children who were raped last year would probably find some of the posts in this thread just more evidence of how many adults in America "just don't understand" what their lives are really like.

This is why programs like Scared Straight also don't work: Scared Straight: Don?t Believe the Hype (Facts from CJJ) | Juvenile Justice Reform | Adolescent Substance Abuse Treatment | Reclaiming Futures.

It is legally impossible to attain or exceed the "scare" factor for a child who has previously been beaten or raped by his/her parents. Being yelled at by convicts does not accomplish the goal of creating enough emotional trauma to create an aversion to criminal acts.

On the flip side, young people who grew up in normal environments, with normal exposure to stress and supportive parenting are unlikely to be affected by these games, because their brains already have a fully functioning system with which to regulate and process stress and adrenaline, just as these young people are unlikely to become involved more than a single delinquent act.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I played Madden last night. I feel no great urge to go tryout for an NFL team today.

Theory that video games inspire real life action debunked.

 

[Koios]

I played Madden last night. I feel no great urge to go tryout for an NFL team today.

Theory that video games inspire real life action debunked.

If you'd be picked up by an NFL team, you'd jump at the chance. (desire without opportunity = meaningless)

 

[JustTheFacts]

I played Madden last night. I feel no great urge to go tryout for an NFL team today.

Theory that video games inspire real life action debunked.

If you'd be picked up by an NFL team, you'd jump at the chance. (desire without opportunity = meaningless)

Nah, I really don't think I would. I'm pretty comfortable with where I am in life.

But, are you trying to say I couldn't make the cut? Cuz I play a lot of Madden and that's good for reflexes you know.

 

[Koios]

I played Madden last night. I feel no great urge to go tryout for an NFL team today.

Theory that video games inspire real life action debunked.

If you'd be picked up by an NFL team, you'd jump at the chance. (desire without opportunity = meaningless)

Nah, I really don't think I would. I'm pretty comfortable with where I am in life.

But, are you trying to say I couldn't make the cut? Cuz I play a lot of Madden and that's good for reflexes you know.

Yes; I would have thought that was quite clear. If it helps, neither can I, nor could I have at any point desite doing quite well in waterskiing competitions and bicycle (road) racing.

It's a pretty rare individual who has the physical attributes to play at that level. So it's a percentage play in assuming you are not NFL material.

 

[WorldWatcher]

10-17 Year old Violent crimes @ 500/100,000 at it's peak and now around 275/100,000 since the introduction of gaming consoles. That's a reduction of 225/100,000.

If we correlate that to a base population of around 350,000,000 that's 1,575,000 violent crimes not committed. Out of that 1.5 million one can assume a significant number that would have results in deaths.

So gaming consoles saved lives.


>>>>

 

[catzmeow]

Video game play does enhance fine motor skills and reflexes, but it will not make you into a professional football thrower.

Strawman.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I played Madden last night. I feel no great urge to go tryout for an NFL team today.

Theory that video games inspire real life action debunked.

More to the point;

I played Need 4 Speed and have no desire to get chased by the cops through the city at insane speeds.

 

[catzmeow]

So gaming consoles saved lives.

I don't know that there is data to establish causality, but the possibility exists.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Video game play does enhance fine motor skills and reflexes, but it will not make you into a professional football thrower.

Strawman.

Maybe not, but I seem to remember reading about some research that had to do with improved mental acuity in older people. The active mental participation required stimulates the brain and can help ward off some of the effects of age.


>>>>

 

[catzmeow]

Maybe not, but I seem to remember reading about some research that had to do with improved mental acuity in older people. The active mental participation required stimulates the brain and can help ward off some of the effects of age.


>>>>

Like many subjects, I think the negative effects of video games are overstated by people whose sensibilities are offended by them. These are often the same people who overstate the negative effects of porn and other things that also offend their narrow set of values.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Maybe not, but I seem to remember reading about some research that had to do with improved mental acuity in older people. The active mental participation required stimulates the brain and can help ward off some of the effects of age.


>>>>

Like many subjects, I think the negative effects of video games are overstated by people whose sensibilities are offended by them. These are often the same people who overstate the negative effects of porn and other things that also offend their narrow set of values.

We didn't let our son have an X-box, the kids were more into Nintendo when they were younger. He was working part-time in high school as an IT tech and came home one day with a console, 4 controllers, and about 35 games. I said "What's up?". One of his co-workers was getting married and needed the money so he sold my son the whole she-bang for $200. He was 18, it was his money - go for it.

Since I've now been playing X-box for about 4 years now ( ) I find it quite interesting (although I'm not obsessed with it). [I swear, I can quit any time I want. ] It's interesting to contrast our playing styles even when playing the same game. He's more of a testosterone run-n-gun type while I tend to take my time, explore, and play a stealth/cover sort of approach. He's called me in before when he's stuck solving a problem and needs alternate solutions, I've called him in when success relies purely on fast action and quick reflexes. He does some group online playing, I do not. I pretty much stick with campaign mode.

It works for us.


>>>>

 

[JustTheFacts]

Video game play does enhance fine motor skills and reflexes, but it will not make you into a professional football thrower.

Strawman.

Correct, and likewise playing video games won't make you a better pitcher a better point guard a better pirate, a better golfer, a better shooter, or anything else.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Maybe not, but I seem to remember reading about some research that had to do with improved mental acuity in older people. The active mental participation required stimulates the brain and can help ward off some of the effects of age.


>>>>

Like many subjects, I think the negative effects of video games are overstated by people whose sensibilities are offended by them. These are often the same people who overstate the negative effects of porn and other things that also offend their narrow set of values.

We didn't let our son have an X-box, the kids were more into Nintendo when they were younger. He was working part-time in high school as an IT tech and came home one day with a console, 4 controllers, and about 35 games. I said "What's up?". One of his co-workers was getting married and needed the money so he sold my son the whole she-bang for $200. He was 18, it was his money - go for it.

Since I've now been playing X-box for about 4 years now ( ) I find it quite interesting (although I'm not obsessed with it). [I swear, I can quit any time I want. ] It's interesting to contrast our playing styles even when playing the same game. He's more of a testosterone run-n-gun type while I tend to take my time, explore, and play a stealth/cover sort of approach. He's called me in before when he's stuck solving a problem and needs alternate solutions, I've called him in when success relies purely on fast action and quick reflexes. He does some group online playing, I do not. I pretty much stick with campaign mode.

It works for us.


>>>>

You and your son are very similar in your different playing styles than me and my sons. I prefer sneaky to run n gun and I don't play much multiplayer. And that isn't just for shooters, I don't play in online football leagues and such either, just not my cup of tea. They on the other hand love it, they get online and play with the friends who they could go play games with face to face. Just seems odd to me.

We've had a gaming console in the house all my kid's lives, but very strict rules on playing times and which games they are allowed to play. My twenty year olds still live at home and are instructed to keep all mature games put up where children can't see them, or don't bring them into the house.

 

[catzmeow]

My son apparently prefers to find a shadowy corner he can stake out during the game's multiplayer variation of "capture the flag," and then troll other users by repeatedly killing their character. I don't play FPS games, but am more inclined to play mmorpgs and go on raiding parties with friends where we stake out noobs, kill them, and take their stuff.

The apple, in our case, apparently does not fall far from the tree.

I kind of feel like, at this point (he's 15), the violence in these games is on par with R-rated movies.

You do learn a lot about social dynamics when you play these games or post on an internet bulletin board.

And, he's way more into NBA2012 and NCAA Football2013 than he is FPS games these days.

 

[Uncensored2008]

My son apparently prefers to find a shadowy corner he can stake out during the game's multiplayer variation of "capture the flag," and then troll other users by repeatedly killing their character.

Yeah, that's called "camping" and is frowned upon in most online games.

I don't play FPS games, but am more inclined to play mmorpgs and go on raiding parties with friends where we stake out noobs, kill them, and take their stuff.

Never was attracted to WOW.

Loved Diablo, but that was a different genre.

The apple, in our case, apparently does not fall far from the tree.

I kind of feel like, at this point (he's 15), the violence in these games is on par with R-rated movies.

Yep.

You do learn a lot about social dynamics when you play these games or post on an internet bulletin board.

Too many games are dominated by children.

My wife and I like Worms, (Worms Reloaded | Team17.com) and had some child go into a complete meltdown that the two of use were collaborating. It's amusing being accused of being a dog rapist by a 9 year old.

 

[WillowTree]

You guys should try Candy Crush Saga. It's brutal!

 

[JustTheFacts]

My son apparently prefers to find a shadowy corner he can stake out during the game's multiplayer variation of "capture the flag," and then troll other users by repeatedly killing their character. I don't play FPS games, but am more inclined to play mmorpgs and go on raiding parties with friends where we stake out noobs, kill them, and take their stuff.

The apple, in our case, apparently does not fall far from the tree.

I kind of feel like, at this point (he's 15), the violence in these games is on par with R-rated movies.

You do learn a lot about social dynamics when you play these games or post on an internet bulletin board.

And, he's way more into NBA2012 and NCAA Football2013 than he is FPS games these days.

LOL you're son is what is known as a camper and is no doubt real popular with other players.

Sits on a respawn spot and kills the newly risen before they even know what hit them LOL