Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[catzmeow]

Nationally, when it comes to violence, things are the best they've been in 25 years. Murder is down, rape is down, larceny is down, auto theft is down, mass murder is not on the rise.

There are at least 2 dozen links in this thread that attest to this.

And there are just as many references to expert opinions who say that the motiveless mass murders as we saw at Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, as examples, are on the rise whether or not all other forms of crime are decreasing.

Do you have any objection of exploring such a concept for accuracy? Or do you think others should not discuss or research it because your mind is already made up?

It' simply a game of cover up the trail is all that we see in all of this stuff, and then to blame objects instead of people and their cultural ways in which they have created these days.

Yes, it's actually a secret plot to destroy and corrupt Christians. In fact, Satan slipped me a few bucks for my posts here, but it's not necessary. In fact, I enjoy posting facts for free, just to disrupt people's comfortable ignorance.

 

[Foxfyre]

Further note to Catz, this was not an appropriate topic for the Coffee Shop where I wouldn't go for confirmation of much of anything, It is posted here so that hateful people might be discouraged from trying to prevent a grownup and thoughtful discussion of te topic. I'm sure you understand.

And I have long petitioned the board administration to change the name of this forum to Civil Discussion Zone so we wouldn't have so many people making 'debate' mandatory though friendly, adult discussion often does include friendly debate on any given topic.

I honestly want to discuss the topic as suggested in the OP. And I have appreciated those who have had the ability to understand what the topic is. Obviously many of us aren't seeing it eye to eye. But that too has been helpful. Since I have no opinion on the subject related to the OP, and therefore there is no way to agree or disagree with my point of view, I certainly wasn't looking for anybody to confirm anything.,

 

[beagle9]

When I was a kid we played cops and robbers, cowboys and indians and things such as that. We had our cap pistols, toy rifles and all sorts of garb like that. We played Army and had fake plastic hand grenades and toy mines. We had a great time playing those kind of things and just about every boy in the neighborhood played those kind of things. I don't know of anybody that I used to play with growing up that turned out to be a mass murderer or that has even shot somebody outside of being a member of the military. I think video games played by mentally healthy kids and young adults are ok. I guess the point I am trying to make is this kind of activity, i.e., war games, cowboy and indians, cops and robbers and even violent video games to me doesn't seem like a problem. I think the problem is two fold. There are mentally unstable people in the world, that no matter what you do short of locking them up, will eventually hurt somebody or themselves. There are also some very evil people in the world that have no problem except for being mean by nature and sometimes they hurt just to cause the pain. I think our efforts should be geared more to mental health screenings, closely monitoring those with a diagnosis of mental illness, and prevention measures to ensure these types of people do not cause harm. There are more than enough gun laws in the country to ensure that only those authorized to buy a gun can obtain one. We also need to very heavily punish those that commit crimes using a gun.

I agree that I also played all those games. Some of us were designated the Cowboys and some of us were the robbers, etc. and we didn't much care whether we got shot. It was as much fun to get shot and perform a dramatic death scene as it was to be the Sheriff who shot the bad guys. But there was no end goal in those games. The joy was just in doing it and when we got tired or Mom called us in for supper, the game ended. There was a very strong sense of who were the good guys and who were the bad guys in the movies and on television back then. The fun in the games was in playing the games and our success or winning was not determined over and over and over and over again by how many others we were able to kill until we were the last one standing.

I think for most people, probably even kids, it isn't much different playing the video games. But if as some of those studies suggest, spending much time with the more violent games are altering the ways kids' brains work and/or changing their personalities and not in a good way, then parents really need to know that.

The difference between now and then, is that back then the kids couldn't wait to be switched out to be the good guy, and this once one finally got tired of being the good guy, and so the roles would then switch making the lucky candidate up next very happy . Now a days the kids seem more and more to gravitate towards being the bad guy, and to defeat the good guy in which they may have been taught or self taught to hate sadly enough. The killing emulated back then importantly enough, was always the good guy's killing the bad guy's, but these days those lines have been blurred badly, and we are seeing this more and more now.

 

[catzmeow]

Further note to Catz, this was not an appropriate topic for the Coffee Shop where I wouldn't go for confirmation of much of anything, It is posted here so that hateful people might be discouraged from trying to prevent a grownup and thoughtful discussion of te topic. I'm sure you understand.

And I have long petitioned the board administration to change the name of this forum to Civil Discussion Zone so we wouldn't have so many people making 'debate' mandatory though friendly, adult discussion often does include friendly debate on any given topic.

I honestly want to discuss the topic as suggested in the OP. And I have appreciated those who have had the ability to understand what the topic is. Obviously many of us aren't seeing it eye to eye. But that too has been helpful. Since I have no opinion on the subject related to the OP, and therefore there is no way to agree or disagree with my point of view, I certainly wasn't looking for anybody to confirm anything.,

Yes, there's nothing more thoughtful and grown up than reinforcing each other's existing biases. Well, carry on. Don't allow me to interrupt your self-admiration party with inconvenient facts about the inaccuracy of your assumptions about mass murder.

 

[beagle9]

And there are just as many references to expert opinions who say that the motiveless mass murders as we saw at Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, as examples, are on the rise whether or not all other forms of crime are decreasing.

Do you have any objection of exploring such a concept for accuracy? Or do you think others should not discuss or research it because your mind is already made up?

It' simply a game of cover up the trail is all that we see in all of this stuff, and then to blame objects instead of people and their cultural ways in which they have created these days.

Yes, it's actually a secret plot to destroy and corrupt Christians. In fact, Satan slipped me a few bucks for my posts here, but it's not necessary. In fact, I enjoy posting facts for free, just to disrupt people's comfortable ignorance.

Your words are interesting, as they lead one to maybe see your position on Christians in America, and that is typical of you, because you definitely speak as a person who has these positions in life.

 

[catzmeow]

It' simply a game of cover up the trail is all that we see in all of this stuff, and then to blame objects instead of people and their cultural ways in which they have created these days.

Yes, it's actually a secret plot to destroy and corrupt Christians. In fact, Satan slipped me a few bucks for my posts here, but it's not necessary. In fact, I enjoy posting facts for free, just to disrupt people's comfortable ignorance.

Your words are interesting, as they lead one to maybe see your position on Christians in America, and that is typical of you, because you definitely speak as a person who has these positions in life.

In the future, you can refer to me as Miss Catz, special agent of Satan. It's more respectful.

 

[beagle9]

There is a difference between facts, and opinions. Whether mass murder is on the rise or not, is either true, or false. There is no grey area in that. Every link I've seen that uses actual data, attests to the fact that it is not on the rise.

Suggesting it is "debatable" is dishonest of you, and shows a disregard for facts that don't fit the "discussion" you want to have.

Did you ever think that you may be looking at the data wrong, and interpreting these facts in a way that is also wrong ? Are we to believe that you are the guru of wisdom here, and that you interpret facts or data better than anyone else in life, especially for those who have lived it for a very long time now ?

If do not interpret properly the data looked at, and this by taking all factors into account and their circumstances, then the data can easily mislead and misconstrue the truth in these matters for all.

 

[beagle9]

Yes, it's actually a secret plot to destroy and corrupt Christians. In fact, Satan slipped me a few bucks for my posts here, but it's not necessary. In fact, I enjoy posting facts for free, just to disrupt people's comfortable ignorance.

Your words are interesting, as they lead one to maybe see your position on Christians in America, and that is typical of you, because you definitely speak as a person who has these positions in life.

In the future, you can refer to me as Miss Catz, special agent of Satan. It's more respectful.

Do you think some young folks just might be thinking this was a super cool statement by you, and that they wish they could be just like you when contending with adults in this way? Are you falling into your own traps now ?

 

[catzmeow]

Did you ever think that you may be looking at the data wrong, and interpreting these facts in a way that is also wrong ?

So, 151 is not less than 163? Mathematical equations don't work in your world? Statistics change based upon the age of the person who performed the calculations?

That is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever read here.

Are we to believe that you are the guru of wisdom here, and that you interpret facts or data better than anyone else in life, especially for those who have lived it for a very long time now ?

I've worked on violent crime policy for 22 years now (including creating threat assessments and interpreting statistical analyses of crime data).

How have you "lived it"?

 

[catzmeow]

Your words are interesting, as they lead one to maybe see your position on Christians in America, and that is typical of you, because you definitely speak as a person who has these positions in life.

In the future, you can refer to me as Miss Catz, special agent of Satan. It's more respectful.

Do you think some young folks just might be thinking this was a super cool statement by you, and that they wish they could be just like you when contending with adults in this way? Are you falling into your own traps now ?

I am a 47 year old woman with two teenage children.

But, you may be correct. Some young folks may indeed think I'm super cool, but I suspect this cool factor would be primarily due to the fact that I'm able to research pertinent issues, identify objective sources, provide evidence of my positions, and logically support my claims.

That is super cool. I agree. Some other posters here should try it.

 

[Koios]

Did you ever think that you may be looking at the data wrong, and interpreting these facts in a way that is also wrong ?

So, 151 is not less than 163? Mathematical equations don't work in your world? Statistics change based upon the age of the person who performed the calculations?

That is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever read here.

Are we to believe that you are the guru of wisdom here, and that you interpret facts or data better than anyone else in life, especially for those who have lived it for a very long time now ?

I've worked on violent crime policy for 22 years now (including creating threat assessments and interpreting statistical analyses of crime data).

How have you "lived it"?

Hate to jump in. But how I live is, well, for doing violent crime. Love it, every chance I get.

Probably 50 or so times a year I punch smaller dudes and children, while drinking in bars. So I'm a statistical menace compared to a more law-abiding citizen who only shoots 3 or 4 people to death each year.

 

[catzmeow]

Thanks for keeping me employed, bro. Much obliged.

 

[Koios]

Thanks for keeping me employed, bro. Much obliged.

My pleasure. Best you stay in the public sector.

Problem with we assholes in the private sector is shit heads like me. I bring in the marketing staff and query, "Okie doke gang; wha'd we learn from the marketing research?"

Then my marketing director says, "4 out of 5 surveyed say they want to buy our product."

Then I say, "Great; which one?"

Next, crickets chirping. Soon after, I look for better marketing folks.

Moral of the story: what kind of violence is sorta important in comparing stats.

 

[beagle9]

Did you ever think that you may be looking at the data wrong, and interpreting these facts in a way that is also wrong ?

So, 151 is not less than 163? Mathematical equations don't work in your world? Statistics change based upon the age of the person who performed the calculations?

That is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever read here.

Are we to believe that you are the guru of wisdom here, and that you interpret facts or data better than anyone else in life, especially for those who have lived it for a very long time now ?

I've worked on violent crime policy for 22 years now (including creating threat assessments and interpreting statistical analyses of crime data).

How have you "lived it"?

Numbers, numbers, numbers, but what do they mean exactly ? What Fox is trying to get to or is talking about I see, is how do these numbers show or apply to the different types of characters involved today, and for what is creating these types of characters today in our society now, but you keep dancing around this question or questions when asked I see ?

 

[beagle9]

In the future, you can refer to me as Miss Catz, special agent of Satan. It's more respectful.

Do you think some young folks just might be thinking this was a super cool statement by you, and that they wish they could be just like you when contending with adults in this way? Are you falling into your own traps now ?

I am a 47 year old woman with two teenage children.

But, you may be correct. Some young folks may indeed think I'm super cool, but I suspect this cool factor would be primarily due to the fact that I'm able to research pertinent issues, identify objective sources, provide evidence of my positions, and logically support my claims.

That is super cool. I agree. Some other posters here should try it.

So all this makes you a special agent of Satan and super cool all because of too ? wow...

 

[catzmeow]

Numbers, numbers, numbers, but what do they mean exactly ? What Fox is trying to get to or is talking about I see, is how do these numbers show or apply to the different types of characters involved today, and for what is creating these types of characters today in our society now, but you keep dancing around this question or questions when asked I see ?

What Foxy is presently doing with the numbers is creating imaginary distinctions between types of mass murders so that she can pretend that her paradigms are actually viable. They aren't, and anyone who has experience with this type of data knows that her little dance is a pose.

Fox and Levin have examined mass murders utilizing FBI NiBRS data (the most complete repository of police incident reports) with greater depth than any other researchers. There is no one in the field who knows more. The demographics of offenders in mass murders haven't changed because of video games. In fact, mass murders, contrary to Foxy's beliefs, haven't changed. I linked Foxy to an overview of the characterizations of mass murderers based upon hundreds of incidents. She ignored it in favor of her own views.

Listening to the inside of your head, when you are not an expert, is not being informed. It isn't discussing, it isn't thoughtful, and it isn't grown-up. It's just kind of sad and pathetic conduct for alleged adults.

I'm sorry that several posters in this thread apparently need the internet to validate their biases. I'm sorry that intellectual ethics prohibit me from playing along. I'm sorry that disappoints you and causes you discomfort.

But no, i'm not going to agree with you that valid and scholarly statistical analysis is less important than the opinions of uninformed posters on this thread who've repeatedly refused to expose themselves to evidence that contradicts their biases. And no, I'm not going to agree with you that facts are open to interpretation. And, no, I am not going to agree with you that being old makes your opinions more thoughtful or informed.

None of those things are true.

If you want confirmation of your existing biases, go to church. If you want to thoughtfully debate and discuss issues, using facts and evidence, post here.

But, don't mistake the two places.

 

[catzmeow]

As a public service announcement:

Inability to Detect Sarcasm May Herald Dementia | Fox News

 

[Foxfyre]

Well I am happy that Catz, Amy, et al are all quite secure with their conclusions on this subject. I share no such confidence as I don't know what or who to believe yet. I don't believe Catz and what she says her job is for a single minute though, because someone in the position she claims would not continually and repeatedly misstate and mischaracterize my position, intent, belief, bias, etc. etc. etc. as she has consistently done. Or if she is in that kind of business, we're all in really big trouble.

But I am no more eager to be contentious now than when I started. And I trust that the more careful readers are reading my particular stance on this correctly. I have really appreciated those who have given some careful thought to the subject and I have read and noted each of your opinions and contributions and believe they should all be part of the mix. I have also noted a pretty wide diversity of opinion which I think is why there is no clear consensus anywhere on this yet. God bless those who think they have it all figured out.

Out for the night. Ya'll all have a good one.

 

[catzmeow]

the question of whether repetitive exposure to violence, especially that acted out in video games, could be a factor in promoting the kind of acting out that we saw at Columbine, et al.

There is an easy way to answer that question. I've provided you with plenty of research on mass murderers. What percentage of mass murderers played violent video games?

 

[catzmeow]

Well I am happy that Catz, Amy, et al are all quite secure with their conclusions on this subject. I share no such confidence as I don't know what or who to believe yet. I don't believe Catz and what she says her job is for a single minute though, because someone in the position she claims would not continually and repeatedly misstate and mischaracterize my position, intent, belief, bias, etc. etc. etc. as she has consistently done. Or if she is in that kind of business, we're all in really big trouble.

Citation needed. Please link me to the post where I mischaracterized your position, intent, and belief. You clearly articulated, IN SEVERAL POSTS, that you believe there has been an increase in mass murders and that video games are tied to that increase. I rebutted that claim, because it is false and unsupported by data on mass murders.

Whether you believe what I do for a living is completely moot. I have seen you claim to be a Christian, but your post above contains false statements about me and the allegation that I'm a liar.

What did Jesus Christ say about bearing false witness and making false statements?

In light of your post above, "I don't for a minute believe that someone who follows Jesus Christ would continually and repeatedly make false statements in a meaningless internet debate. Or, if she is a follower of Jesus Christ, Christianity is in really big trouble."

But I am no more eager to be contentious now than when I started.

Yes, it's always preferable to veil one's personal attacks in passive aggressive verbosity.

Your intimation that I'm lying about my profession in this thread (see paragraph 1 of your post above} is in fact a personal attack, and a rather nasty and underhanded one, to boot, regardless of how much syrup you attempt to drown it in.

It's nice that you're above that sort of behavior.