Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[Uncensored2008]

This has been harped upon since the 40s at least....the 40s....you know...the generation that we look back on now as being the good guys.

Well, they DID have a real problem with violent video games in the 1940's...

You sure are smart....

 

[Foxfyre]

Sorry. Close but no cigar. I had read that piece and also theories questioning some of the conclusions in it. But rather than identifying a motive, it mostly described the sociopathic mindset and what allows somebody to do what happened at Columbine. It is a given that most or all who commit such acts of violence are sociopathic at least at the time they did it. At the same time, everybody who is essentially sociopathic, and that would include many afflicted with severe autism and other similar syndromes, do not commit acts of mass violence.

The article didn't mention the term sociopathic or sociopath. It used the term psychopath and psychopathic exclusively. And, it included sections from Harris's journal entries and a description of his motives.

Perhaps you've confused it with another article you read a while ago.

No, it was this Slate piece that has been batted around and discussed at length on the internet for what, nine years now? But you're right, that piece didn't use the specific term 'sociopath.'

When I want to know as much as I can learn about any current event, I read pretty much everything I can find on the subject and I am interested in all informed opinions. But I don't just swallow somebody else's opinion as the gospel truth of the way it is without doing at least some of my own research. I may use a published opinion to illustrate whatever arguments are being made out there.

So. . . from the Slate Piece:

. . . ."The truly hard-core psychopath doesn't quite comprehend emotions like love or hate or fear, because he has never experienced them directly. . . .​

.

. . .In popular usage, almost any crazy killer is a "psychopath." But in psychiatry, it's a very specific mental condition that rarely involves killing, or even psychosis. "Psychopaths are not disoriented or out of touch with reality, nor do they experience the delusions, hallucinations, or intense subjective distress that characterize most other mental disorders," writes Dr. Robert Hare, in Without Conscience, the seminal book on the condition. (Hare is also one of the psychologists consulted by the FBI about Columbine and by Slate for this story *.) "Unlike psychotic individuals, psychopaths are rational and aware of what they are doing and why. Their behavior is the result of choice, freely exercised." Diagnosing Harris as a psychopath represents neither a legal defense, nor a moral excuse. But it illuminates a great deal about the thought process that drove him to mass murder. . . .​

. . . .Psychopaths follow much stricter behavior patterns than the rest of us because they are unfettered by conscience, living solely for their own aggrandizement. (The difference is so striking that Fuselier trains hostage negotiators to identify psychopaths during a standoff, and immediately reverse tactics if they think they're facing one. It's like flipping a switch between two alternate brain-mechanisms.). . . .​

and validating my theory though they didn't use video games to get there:

. . . .It wasn't just "fame" they were after—Agent Fuselier bristles at that trivializing term—they were gunning for devastating infamy on the historical scale of an Attila the Hun. Their vision was to create a nightmare so devastating and apocalyptic that the entire world would shudder at their power. . . .​

And from my own research:

so•ci•o•path (Dictionary.com)
a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.​

From a discussion describing psycopathy and sociopathy:

The differences between sociopathy & psychopathy are still debated, however they are primarily differentiated by the origin of the disorder. In general sociopath and psychopath are very often used to describe the same thing. In the mental health sphere the general opinion is that psychopathy is actually much more of an inborn phenomenon whilst sociopathy, which displays clinical presentation alike to psychopathy, is the consequence of environmental stressors.

Read more Sociopath vs. Psychopath, Differences Between Psychopathic & Sociopathic Personality Disorders​

So if we go with this explanation/definition, were the Columbine shooters born the way they were? Or did certain 'stressors' in their life/environment affect them that way? Can you say for sure? Did the Slate article?

And if we conclude they weren't 'born' that way, it brings us right back to the question of whether repetitive exposure to violence, especially that acted out in video games, could be a factor in promoting the kind of acting out that we saw at Columbine, et al.

Disclaimer: That is not suggesting that ALL such acting out results from video games even IF video games are judged to have that effect on some people. And I still don't know whether they do or don't.

 

[bodecea]

This "debate" reminds me of other debates, namely the ones that claim a causation between gay marriage and the destruction of heterosexual marriage.

One of my favorites in that regard was the "debate" that the legalization of gay marriage in Northern Europe caused an increase in out of wedlock births. This was asserted in all seriousness, believe it or not.

 

[Foxfyre]

Please keep the train on the track and address the OP. Thank you very much.

 

[bodecea]

This has been harped upon since the 40s at least....the 40s....you know...the generation that we look back on now as being the good guys.

Well, they DID have a real problem with violent video games in the 1940's...

You sure are smart....

I don't believe the post I was replying to just talked about video games...but that seems to be the only thing you saw in all that. Maybe YOU need to put down the Wii controller yourself.

 

[Foxfyre]

Violent video games and other forms of media violence and whatever effect they do or do not have on people is the topic of the thread though.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't believe the post I was replying to just talked about video games...but that seems to be the only thing you saw in all that. Maybe YOU need to put down the Wii controller yourself.

In fact the post you replied to, the OP, was specifically about video games.

I suspect that your motive was to derail the thread.

 

[bodecea]

NOTE: Clean debate zone thread here. . . .

This morning I was listening to a concept put out by a military psychologist who suggests that it is not guns that are the problem in a 'violent America', but rather the changed American culture. Violent concepts are prevalent in our television programs, movies, comic books, music, and most especially in video games that are available in large quantities to very young children.

His theory is that this is desensitizing young people to violence and even exalting and promoting it.

Are video games conditioning kids to accept violence as virtue? As the way to get things accomplished? To win? To reach the pinnacle of success? In many/most of video games out there, it is necessary to be ruthless in order to win the game. Does this change the way people view their world in an unhealthy way?

If you do see this as a problem, how do you get around censorship as being somehow better than gun control? Do you want the government to have power in that area?

Or is there a way for the public/radio/Hollywood to self censor itself as it once did? And should we push for that?

Or maybe you don't see it as a problem at all?

This has been harped upon since the 40s at least....the 40s....you know...the generation that we look back on now as being the good guys.

I believe you are alluding to the greatest generation, and they would have been adolescents in the 30s, not the 40'.

But they would have been teens and young adults and the purveyors of culture (music, comic books, movies etc.) in the 40s. Jitterbugging was frowned on. Some of the movies of the 40s, the music itself was frowned on by the older, more staid generation.

 

[bodecea]

I don't believe the post I was replying to just talked about video games...but that seems to be the only thing you saw in all that. Maybe YOU need to put down the Wii controller yourself.

In fact the post you replied to, the OP, was specifically about video games.

I suspect that your motive was to derail the thread.

The post I replied to stated this....and I quote:

Violent concepts are prevalent in our television programs, movies, comic books, music, and most especially in video games that are available in large quantities to very young children.

My point being that the crying about violent video games is just a new melody to the old tune about violence and inappropriateness ruining the next generation.

And...as I read this thread over, apparently the OP is not validated by the facts.

But...if you feel that my post is an attempt to derail the thread, you should report it.

 

[Foxfyre]

But despite what was right or wrong in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, we really didn't worry about somebody coming in and mowing down a classroom full of First Graders. Now we do. And more and more schools lock their doors after the kids arrive and have armed guards on premises.

One suggestion for why this is necessary is the extreme gratuitous violence in the movies, music, televison, and video games in our culture.

That is what this thread is about. Not what caused violence in other eras. Not how many violent acts there have been for whatever reason.

This thread is to explore whether our modern violent culture, especially video games, is a factor in the mass mayhem that occurs.

 

[bodecea]

But despite what was right or wrong in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, we really didn't worry about somebody coming in and mowing down a classroom full of First Graders. Now we do. And more and more schools lock their doors after the kids arrive and have armed guards on premises.

One suggestion for why this is necessary is the extreme gratuitous violence in the movies, music, televison, and video games in our culture.

That is what this thread is about. Not what caused violence in other eras. Not how many violent acts there have been for whatever reason.

This thread is to explore whether our modern violent culture, especially video games, is a factor in the mass mayhem that occurs.

And is that because of violent video games or because of more efficient weapons in the hands of crazies?

 

[Katzndogz]

Facebook has been responsible for more deaths than video games.

 

[Foxfyre]

The preponderance of opinions on this thread seems to lean toward almost any explanation other than video games. I suspect that is because we LIKE video games and we don't want that to be a factor in the recent mass killings. And indeed they very well may not be. A few don't seem to want to address that concept at all and have tried to divert the discussion to almost anything else.

But nevertheless, with so many credentialed and learned people doing studies on the effects of media violence and video games--more than 3000 such studies now according to some sources--I still want to know for sure.

 

[beagle9]

This nation is huge and hugely populated, and yes we have had many events over time that were tragic and murderous, however in percentages of, we have got to be breaking records these days in the amount that these events are taking place now more frequently

Actual data on mass murders from the FBI says no.

In fact, the number of incidents in 2012 was 7% lower than the average for 2000-2010.

Your only going out a few years here and a few years there in comparisons to, but what should be looked at is the long term patterns and data by looking back, and then in what has developed now, and this by using 20 year increment's to get a better understanding of it all.

 

[catzmeow]

True, which perhaps only proves that not all adolescents succumb to the evils of video game play.

No. That's not what it proves. Violent video games evolved and began to be widely distributed during the 2000, and juvenile crime has fallen steadily since that point. We can safely say there isn't a juvenile crime/video game connection.

Videogames might not cause kids to go crazy and do shit like this, but NO ONE could dispute that freaks see shit like this whether in a movie or a videogame and think "oh boy that would be awesome to do in real life" then they go do it.

So perhaps a more honest opinion might be that video games INSPIRE violence, rather than actually cause violence.

The video games don't inspire the violence, the violence is already in the individual.

 

[catzmeow]

The preponderance of opinions on this thread seems to lean toward almost any explanation other than video games. I suspect that is because we LIKE video games and we don't want that to be a factor in the recent mass killings. And indeed they very well may not be. A few don't seem to want to address that concept at all and have tried to divert the discussion to almost anything else.

The evidence doesn't support a correlation between use of video games and increased crime.

Which is the main problem with your paradigm. You wish to ignore the evidence of lower crime rates in favor of maintaining your pet paradigm. That isn't thoughtful debate. It's mentally pleasuring yourself.

 

[beagle9]

The preponderance of opinions on this thread seems to lean toward almost any explanation other than video games. I suspect that is because we LIKE video games and we don't want that to be a factor in the recent mass killings. And indeed they very well may not be. A few don't seem to want to address that concept at all and have tried to divert the discussion to almost anything else.

But nevertheless, with so many credentialed and learned people doing studies on the effects of media violence and video games--more than 3000 such studies now according to some sources--I still want to know for sure.

The content is the major problem, where as we are becoming a soulless nation void of God and a discipline to be good anymore, and so being very bad is winning the day, and that is a shame for all.

 

[catzmeow]

Yes, more prayer would reduce mass murders. If only one of the Newtown victims had believed in God or prayed for help.

 

[beagle9]

The video games don't inspire the violence, the violence is already in the individual.

No, but the video games are a tool that can be easily used in the process of needing to brush up on getting the feel of the real experience or coming close to it, so people are defending these games in any form that they are in, and that is disturbing.

Content is the key to change of mindset, but if we are not ready to change what we take into our minds these days, then get ready for this stuff to keep getting worse and worse.

 

[AmyNation]

"Stuff" is not getting worse and worse. That is your personal perception and has been repeatedly shown to be faulty in this thread.