Before you argue for universal health care in America, look at the disaster in England

[easyt65]

For all the Obama-drooling, ACA-defending snowflakes who defend Obama's plan to drive America into 'Single Payer' by intentionally forcing the ACA on Americans and having it collapse as it is doing....

Before you argue for universal health care in America, look at the disaster in England

"Plenty of people love government welfare when it seems like someone else will pay for their benefits. The problem with that, as Margaret Thatcher famously pointed out, is that eventually you run out of other people's money. And when that happens, the state goes after your money.

Never forget that a government that is powerful enough to give you everything you want is also powerful enough to take away everything you've got.

That logic is now playing out in England, where Thatcher's own Tory Party, having abandoned its commitment to rolling back the welfare state, is doubling down on taking away "your" money."


"... it's fiscally unsustainable..."

"England's welfare state has grown to a point where it is no longer possible to obfuscate the basic existential dilemma that it poses, namely, that there is no such thing as "free" universal coverage for anything: Either individuals take charge and make provisions for their own care, and maintain control over their funds — or hand them over to the government, and lose control. The first requires rolling back the welfare state, the latter expanding the tax collection state.

There is no third way, at least not one that is sustainable over the long run. It's a pity that after Thatcher there is no party — or political figure — left in England to point out the inevitable."

 

[NYcarbineer]

For all the Obama-drooling, ACA-defending snowflakes who defend Obama's plan to drive America into 'Single Payer' by intentionally forcing the ACA on Americans and having it collapse as it is doing....

Before you argue for universal health care in America, look at the disaster in England

"Plenty of people love government welfare when it seems like someone else will pay for their benefits. The problem with that, as Margaret Thatcher famously pointed out, is that eventually you run out of other people's money. And when that happens, the state goes after your money.

Never forget that a government that is powerful enough to give you everything you want is also powerful enough to take away everything you've got.

That logic is now playing out in England, where Thatcher's own Tory Party, having abandoned its commitment to rolling back the welfare state, is doubling down on taking away "your" money."


"... it's fiscally unsustainable..."

"England's welfare state has grown to a point where it is no longer possible to obfuscate the basic existential dilemma that it poses, namely, that there is no such thing as "free" universal coverage for anything: Either individuals take charge and make provisions for their own care, and maintain control over their funds — or hand them over to the government, and lose control. The first requires rolling back the welfare state, the latter expanding the tax collection state.

There is no third way, at least not one that is sustainable over the long run. It's a pity that after Thatcher there is no party — or political figure — left in England to point out the inevitable."

So who should go without?

 

[shockedcanadian]

You don't even have to look that far, just look at Canada. Wait times like you wouldn't believe and many literally dying while waiting. People placed in the hallways of hospitals and passing away because there is no room in the hospital, and sometimes these people had issues that were operational.

Above and beyond this, the state believes you are nothing but a subject of the nation, to be treated as the state pleases. Little rights, little accountability, big government and intervention in the most private and personal pursuits in life.

Do NOT become a socialist country, or America is gone.

 

[easyt65]

So who should go without?

Ask OBAMA - it was his plan.


The Looming Reality of ObamaCare's Doctor Shortage | FreedomWorks

"A new analysis finds that the health insurance plans offered on ObamaCare exchanges offer a choice of 34 percent fewer health care providers, on average, than plans offered on the private market. The report specifies that:

Specifically, the analysis finds that exchange plan networks include 42 percent fewer oncology and cardiology specialists; 32 percent fewer mental health and primary care providers; and 24 percent fewer hospitals. Importantly, care provided by out-of-network providers does not count toward the out-of-pocket limits put in place by the ACA.

This is not surprising. The decline in doctor availability has been a long-foreseen consequence of the Affordable Care Act. The Wall Street Journal reported that the number of doctors per capita is in decline for the first time in two generations, medical school admissions are down 6 percent, and the American Association of Medical Colleges has predicted a shortage of 160,000 physicians by 2025. The only people who didn’t see this coming are the ones who don’t understand that incentives matter."

 

[NYcarbineer]

So who should go without?

Ask OBAMA - it was his plan.


The Looming Reality of ObamaCare's Doctor Shortage | FreedomWorks

"A new analysis finds that the health insurance plans offered on ObamaCare exchanges offer a choice of 34 percent fewer health care providers, on average, than plans offered on the private market. The report specifies that:

Specifically, the analysis finds that exchange plan networks include 42 percent fewer oncology and cardiology specialists; 32 percent fewer mental health and primary care providers; and 24 percent fewer hospitals. Importantly, care provided by out-of-network providers does not count toward the out-of-pocket limits put in place by the ACA.

This is not surprising. The decline in doctor availability has been a long-foreseen consequence of the Affordable Care Act. The Wall Street Journal reported that the number of doctors per capita is in decline for the first time in two generations, medical school admissions are down 6 percent, and the American Association of Medical Colleges has predicted a shortage of 160,000 physicians by 2025. The only people who didn’t see this coming are the ones who don’t understand that incentives matter."

That's a long non-answer that I'm not going to read. lol

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sure, easyt.

Name us one western, industrialized nation trying to copy our mess here in the USA.

 

[easyt65]

That's a long non-answer that I'm not going to read. lol

So I post a link and facts as how the current doctor shortage and the worsening problem to come is a direct result of Obama's ACA, and you respond by saying, 'I refuse to read it....I see nothing...lalalalala.'?!

Poor snowflake...quick, run to your safe space.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's a long non-answer that I'm not going to read. lol

So I post a link and facts as how the current doctor shortage and the worsening problem to come is a direct result of Obama's ACA, and you respond by saying, 'I refuse to read it....I see nothing...lalalalala.'?!

Poor snowflake...quick, run to your safe space.

View attachment 129966

Let's go back to my question.

If you don't have universal healthcare, then someone doesn't get healthcare.

Who do you want those people to be?

 

[Rambunctious]

Iv'e told this story here before. My friend died waiting to see a specialist while covered by Obamacare. No one in the field he needed in his area of the country excepted the insurance. He finally found a Doctors group in LA that would except his insurance but his condition by this time got much worse. It turned out he had stomach cancer not just acid reflex like his GP kept telling him.
Folks that is a death panel by a different name. Not only has Obamacare caused you to lose your doctor and your rates are sky high but you also can't always find care when you need it. Obamacare is a killer and Obama should be hung for shoving down our throats.

 

[task0778]

I can see it coming, no matter what the GOP comes up with for HCI the Left will run against it in 2018 and 2020 and probably after that. I think they can't trumpet how good ObamaCare was, nobody will believe that but more likely will offer a single Payer HC system as their alternative. And they'll lie about the costs and they'll also lie about the benefits like they always do, just like they did for the ACA. Will America go for it? Dunno, maybe. Might depend on what the GOP manages to come up now that they're in charge, but so far it ain't looking good. Sadly we are a house divided, and the impetus to work together to achieve the common good is missing.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Sure, easyt.

Name us one western, industrialized nation trying to copy our mess here in the USA.

How many citizens of the world want to live in America? THAT'S the question. Of course these governments like their system, it ensures they can steal from the trough and noone will notice or few will care because they are "taken care of". There are more Scandanavian households on the bubble to go belly up than there are in America, by some distance. East Germans were all smiles and content, then the wall came down and they realized that their sons, daughters, parents, closest friends, co-workers and spouses were actually spying on them, 1 in 7 citizens by some accounts.

This is, by the way, the security apparatus that the RCMP in the 1970's admired and copied. Take that for what you will in regards to Canada...it's NOT a nation that is free, and it is certainly oppressive to the individual and their pursuits. Any American who thinks Canada is Utopia is so mistaken and quite naive. So are many Canadians unfortunately.

America is a republic, meaning individual rights and pursuits. This comes with positives and negatives, but ultimately, it's the best system there is. You tweak it too much and the entire Western world loses it's rights.

 

[easyt65]

Let's go back to my question. If you don't have universal healthcare, then someone doesn't get healthcare. Who do you want those people to be?

Under the ACA right now there are Americans who do not have health care. In some markets insurers have left the exchanges, leaving Americans without health care. Instead of discussing a future health care system that does not exist here yet, why not start by discussing the current Obama-created system. Why don't Americans have health care TODAY?!

Please don't tell me Obama simply 'overlooked' the facts of how the ACA were going to go 'off the tracks', causing extremely higher premiums Americans could not afford and the collapse of the ACA by insurers pulling out, leaving Americans uninsured. Americans who once HAD insurance were not only NOT able to keep the plans and doctors they once had, now some of them don't have care at all.

And considering this fact about the government imposed health care system we have today, who the hell would then want to hand over all control and choices regarding their health care to that same government. So, again, I suggest you talk to Democrats and Obama about who will go without since it is THEIR current plan that has caused Americans to go without and THEIR plan to start the ball rolling towards govt controlled Single Payer.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sure, easyt.

Name us one western, industrialized nation trying to copy our mess here in the USA.

How many citizens of the world want to live in America? THAT'S the question. Of course these governments like their system, it ensures they can steal from the trough and noone will notice or few will care because they are "taken care of". There are more Scandanavian households on the bubble to go belly up than there are in America, by some distance. East Germans were all smiles and content, then the wall came down and they realized that their sons, daughters, parents, closest friends, co-workers and spouses were actually spying on them, 1 in 7 citizens by some accounts.

This is, by the way, the security apparatus that the RCMP in the 1970's admired and copied. Take that for what you will in regards to Canada...it's NOT a nation that is free, and it is certainly oppressive to the individual and their pursuits. Any American who thinks Canada is Utopia is so mistaken and quite naive. So are many Canadians unfortunately.

America is a republic, meaning individual rights and pursuits. This comes with positives and negatives, but ultimately, it's the best system there is. You tweak it too much and the entire Western world loses it's rights.

Deflection noted, sc: so name one western industrialized nation trying to copy our broken health care system?

And easyt is even more lost than you on this subject.

 

[toomuchtime_]

For all the Obama-drooling, ACA-defending snowflakes who defend Obama's plan to drive America into 'Single Payer' by intentionally forcing the ACA on Americans and having it collapse as it is doing....

Before you argue for universal health care in America, look at the disaster in England

"Plenty of people love government welfare when it seems like someone else will pay for their benefits. The problem with that, as Margaret Thatcher famously pointed out, is that eventually you run out of other people's money. And when that happens, the state goes after your money.

Never forget that a government that is powerful enough to give you everything you want is also powerful enough to take away everything you've got.

That logic is now playing out in England, where Thatcher's own Tory Party, having abandoned its commitment to rolling back the welfare state, is doubling down on taking away "your" money."


"... it's fiscally unsustainable..."

"England's welfare state has grown to a point where it is no longer possible to obfuscate the basic existential dilemma that it poses, namely, that there is no such thing as "free" universal coverage for anything: Either individuals take charge and make provisions for their own care, and maintain control over their funds — or hand them over to the government, and lose control. The first requires rolling back the welfare state, the latter expanding the tax collection state.

There is no third way, at least not one that is sustainable over the long run. It's a pity that after Thatcher there is no party — or political figure — left in England to point out the inevitable."

People forget that before Obamacare we did have universal healthcare in the US.

Rich or poor with or without pre existing conditions, if you were uninsured, you could go to at HRSA clinic which are everywhere and which provide pretty much all outpatient care for fees based on your income, from zero to customary fees for you area, and in most cases, this includes prescriptions, medical supplies and tests.

https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/index.html

The problem arose if you required hospitalization. Without insurance, you would have to spend down everything you owned and nearly all of you income or medical care before you would qualify for Medicaid, and this would create a terrible financial hardship you might never recover from. So while healthcare was available to everyone, for the uninsured the financial consequences of getting sick could be devastating. It is likely that in every election there will be significant pressure to provide some sort of financial relief to people who legitimately cannot afford to buy health insurance. Obamacare is not a sustainable solution, but the issue is not going to go away.

 

[HenryBHough]

Fact:

Any medical treatment for any disease or condition simply weakens the gene pool. Keeping the unfit and accident prone alive merely ensures that humankind will breed it self out of existence in the fullness of time.

 

[Truth2Know]

If you don't have universal healthcare, then someone doesn't get healthcare.

Who do you want those people to be?

For some reason, the OP does not want to answer your question directly. So I'll give you the truthful answer: Those who can't afford it and also can't receive some sort of charitable healthcare.

Get over it. Healthcare is not a right. It’s a commodity. You want it? Pay for it.

Making other people pay for what you get is obscene.

 

[BluesLegend]

That's a long non-answer that I'm not going to read. lol

So I post a link and facts as how the current doctor shortage and the worsening problem to come is a direct result of Obama's ACA, and you respond by saying, 'I refuse to read it....I see nothing...lalalalala.'?!

Poor snowflake...quick, run to your safe space.

Guess why people don't want to become doctors...they are demonized and vamp sucked by liberals who want to bleed them dry with reduced fees, taxes, and lawsuits. Study 10 years to get fucked over by liberals, I don't blame them.