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Mememe -
There is little point asking questions if you refuse to look at the answers.
.
Mememe -
If you were willing to read, you would be able to learn about things for yourself. I generally think that's better,
not only was there no evidence to suggest that any of the Doctor's involved were "terrorists",
there were no acts of terror.
None of the doctors were members of any secret cells, they weren't plotting,
and as far as anyone has ever suggested - they were just normal, everyday doctors.
It's hardly a mystery - the doctors were rounded up and executed or deported purely and simply because Stalin did not like Jews.
Go to whatever serious source you like - you won't anyone who actually believes there was a plot.
Mememe -
In the case of an author like Montefiore, it's really a lifetime of work. He's been working with Russian history for decades now, and his two books on Stalin probably amount to a good ten years of solid research, largely in Georgia and Moscow.
Likewise Richard Overy, who is very strong in this area - it's perhaps 20 - 30 years of painstaking fieldwork, research and teaching.
)
1. Montefiore was a banker, and a journalist, and a novelist, and a POPULAR historian! Saigon, the dude was writing half-historical, half-fictional books! And he was writing them and about Stalin, and about Ekaterina II... What does it tell you about the DEPTH of his knowledge? Clearly, nothing.
Mememe -
Let's stick with what is imporant:
You know more than anyone else. You know more than all so-called experts with the PhDs, awards and publications.
He knows nothing.
Only Mememe knows the real truth.
Mememe -
Yes, yes, yes - it is all a western conspiracy.
Much like the Doctors Plot!
Stalin was really a lovely man
Mememe -
Was Stalin responsible for the death of at least 30 million Russians?
Mememe -
No, I mean the people staved during the Great Famine and murdered during the Terror first and foremost.
How about we start with them?
during Stalin times they were tried for their crimes.
If famine of 1932-1933 in the USSR was of Stalin's doing,
during Stalin times they were tried for their crimes.If famine of 1932-1933 in the USSR was of Stalin's doing,
And you want to talk about believing propaganda?
And you don't even know that Stalin deliberately starved the Ukraine to death?
I'm afraid your knowledge of history is such that no discussion is possible. You just don't know enough to make debate possible.
during Stalin times they were tried for their crimes.If famine of 1932-1933 in the USSR was of Stalin's doing,
And you want to talk about believing propaganda?
And you don't even know that Stalin deliberately starved the Ukraine to death?
I'm afraid your knowledge of history is such that no discussion is possible. You just don't know enough to make debate possible.
Saigon, do you even realise that you repeat the same half-a-dozen cliches given to you, Westerners, by your establishment?
I had "conversations" like that so many times that I can tell in advance everything you will put forward in support of all your arguments. You were fed certain mantras as far back as 1950-s and they remain the same.
All right, let's do it for the hundred's time:
1. Famine of 1930-s was rife throughout Europe, Africa and N. America. Did Stalin do it?
2. Are you even aware that famine of 1930-s was not confined to Ukrainian SSR?
3. Are you aware that "Ukraine" as a separate from the rest of Russia republic was created by Bolsheviks; and "Ukrainians" as an ethnicity separate from the rest of Russians was also created by Bolsheviks by simply writing all those born in Malorussia as "Ukrainians" into 1922 census? So why would Stalin create something and then "starve it to death"?
4. Then, again, not all reagions of Ukraine were affected by famine.
5. Prior to 1930-s famines were a regular thing. Did Stalin do it?
4. I hope you do know that before WW2 ended the US accepted scores of German Nazis, including those from Nazi propaganda department? They were helping Americans organise their propaganda work of the Cold War period.
Well, "Hearst's relationship with the Nazis in 1934 is of critical importance in understanding a major element of American anti-Communist propaganda. In 1934 Hearst published a number of stories about the 1932-1933 famine in Ukraine. Nazi Germany had been waging a major anti-Communist propaganda campaign as part of its agenda, fascism being the "sworn enemy" or communism.
As part of this larger propaganda campaign the German Ministry of Propaganda created a story about a Soviet program of genocide in Ukraine. This was all part of the larger German plans to not only put down Communist support in Germany, but justify later invasions to the east under the banner of "liberation."
The Germans manufactured stories about the famine in Ukraine and used false photographs to depict the famine conditions as worse than they really were, including pictures from a 1920-22 famine in Russia during the Russian Civil War and pictures of famine conditions during World War I of regions that were not even Russian.
The Germans wanted to expand this propaganda campaign against the USSR to potential rival states which it hoped to build support in, such as the United States and Britain. This is where Hearst came in.
Hearst's role for the Nazis was to try and build Nazi sympathy in America, which was to be achieved by both portraying Nazi Germany in a good light, as well as portraying Germany's primary target, the Soviet Union, and Communism in general, in an exaggeratedly negative light.
Hearst picked up the Ukraine famine story in 1934, about a year after the famine actually took place. In a press like the Hearst Press everything relied on "breaking news." Had Hearst had a real interest in covering the Ukraine famine it would have been covered in 1932 and 1933 when it was taking place, however it was not covered in Hearst presses until 1934, after he picked up the story for the Nazis.
Hearst's Ukraine famine stories have proven to have had a huge impact among Americans, and even today the majority of Americans believe that there actually was a "Ukraine Holocaust." Common figures are that 6 million people died in Ukraine under Stalin's rule in what was an intentional starving to death of these millions of people. This 6 million figure is in fact a pure fabrication of Nazi propaganda. The idea that Ukrainians were intentionally starved to death is likewise a product of Nazi propaganda, picked up by Hearst and spread to the United States, where it was accepted at truth, and for the most part still is today.
For more on the Ukrainian famine and the role of the Hearst Press in creating the myth of a Ukrainian genocide see: "Fraud, Famine and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard".
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...h7Rc4i9R6kfYa-zlw&sig2=t_SIXtLh-Lh71zjkWeHtkQ
