Beloe Zlato! The most successive Russian girl band.

[Siberian]

(Baron, to your attention, this group specializes on folclore songs in modern sound)

taking in account that certain degree of fatalism is common to all Russians, and that Great Steppe (including Eastern part of what is called Ukraine now) got populated at all ( by Russians) only in last 200-300 years, after Russia neutralized the threat of Tatar nomads - I find division to North and South in folk music artificial and imaginary.

there are regional differences, there is local folclore, but generally everything what was created and was worth was immediately adopted by all Russians.

as well I don't share view on Russian folk music as one being overfatalistic or poetic, as you say, everything is represented well enough

 

[rupol2000]

This song is considered an old Cossack.

 

[rupol2000]

as well I don't share view on Russian folk music as one being overfatalistic or poetic, as you say, everything is represented well enough

Strictly speaking, the steppe inhabitants did not belong to the historical Russians. It is self-evident to me that their songs are epic, tragic, touching and lyrical, and they are never like a Russian ditty or "baroness". And even attempts to mix these styles did not lead to success, because they are very different in spirit and temperament.

 

[rupol2000]

In fact, from any "Horde" song it breaks into tears, if you listen to them, even from music alone, and more than half of the plots of these songs are pure tragedy

 

[rupol2000]

 

[rupol2000]

Even there not about war and death, there are still motives of a difficult fate, and they are still minor

 

[rupol2000]

And I do not perceive Moscow-style music at all, for me it sounds like modern samples from tiktok, there is no depth and beautiness. The real pearl of Russian and Ukrainian folklore is precisely the Horde music, it has real sublimity and beautiness and romance.

 

[rupol2000]

And Ukrainian songs sound even better, Ukrainians have a very melodic language.

 

[rupol2000]

 

[rupol2000]

 

[rupol2000]

taking in account that certain degree of fatalism is common to all Russians, and that Great Steppe (including Eastern part of what is called Ukraine now) got populated at all ( by Russians) only in last 200-300 years, after Russia neutralized the threat of Tatar nomads - I find division to North and South in folk music artificial and imaginary.

This is a purely political picture that has nothing to do with reality. Until 1917, there were no mass migrations, such attempts were made under Peter I, but they were knocked out by Razin. Partial colonization of Ukraine and the Don was under Catherine II, but these were generally Serbs and Jews. This concerned only Novoserbia (later Novorossiya) and the modern Luhansk region, as well as Volyn. The Cossacks did not consider themselves Russians, they are the descendants of the Khazars, their own ethnonym Khazara. Most of the Ukrainians were Poles, except for the Hetmanate, the south was partially inhabited by the Turks. Siberia has never been inhabited by ethnic Russians.
All these lands of the southeast of Russia and Ukraine before Bolshevism had their own sovereign autonomy.
We can only assume that the Moscow peasants rented black earth lands there, and had settlements in connection with this, but it is not really clear whether these peasants were from Moscow or local.
It is possible that some of the peasants were fugitives from Muscovy, because it is known that the peasants were not given back to Moscow from the Don, therefore they remained there(before liberalisation 1861).

 

[Siberian]

This is a purely political picture that has nothing to do with reality. Until 1917, there were no mass migrations, such attempts were made under Peter I, but they were knocked out by Razin. Partial colonization of Ukraine and the Don was under Catherine II, but these were generally Serbs and Jews. This concerned only Novoserbia (later Novorossiya) and the modern Luhansk region, as well as Volyn. The Cossacks did not consider themselves Russians, they are the descendants of the Khazars, their own ethnonym Khazara. Most of the Ukrainians were Poles, except for the Hetmanate, the south was partially inhabited by the Turks. Siberia has never been inhabited by ethnic Russians.
All these lands of the southeast of Russia and Ukraine before Bolshevism had their own sovereign autonomy.
We can only assume that the Moscow peasants rented black earth lands there, and had settlements in connection with this, but it is not really clear whether these peasants were from Moscow or local.
It is possible that some of the peasants were fugitives from Muscovy, because it is known that the peasants were not given back to Moscow from the Don, therefore they remained there(before liberalisation 1861).

may I ask where are you from and where did you learn such peculiar view on History?

 

[rupol2000]

About when they established power in the middle and lower Volga regions, I did not meet any intelligible information at all. It is believed that Kazan was taken by Grozny, but that was even before the Troubles, and it is not known whether they kept it. And about what happened downstream, nothing is really known. And this is exactly the steppe part of the Volga.

 

[rupol2000]

may I ask where are you from and where did you learn such peculiar view on History?

This is facts, just not what you watch on TV show

Now people so stupid that believe even "Novorossia" in the Don Land, But so far, the Kremlin has not officially abolished the real Novorossiya that really existed in the south of the hetmanate, in the Kirovograd region. Or already canceled?

 

[rupol2000]

The Russian Empire was only in the 19th century, but it was not an Empire, but a real federation of independent States. In the 18th century, there was "Prussian" Muscovy, which owned only the northwestern lands north of Moscow, and the hetmanate, then they received Volyn during the partition of Poland. Peter went to Azov and Don, but he did not keep anything there. There was no "Empire". What was conquered by the Grozniy does not belong to the period of the Holstein-Gottorp, and most likely even the upper Volga region did not belong to Muscovy at that time.
There is no real evidence of any 18th century "empire". The fact that some ermak for the hire of 2 Moscow merchants went to Siberia does not mean that Moscow owned Siberia.

 

[Siberian]

This is facts, just not what you watch on TV show

Now people so stupid that believe even "Novorossia" in the Don Land, But so far, the Kremlin has not officially abolished the real Novorossiya that really existed in the south of the hetmanate, in the Kirovograd region. Or already canceled?

I see, you seem to live in Novorossia on Western border of it with Ukraine

I in no way intend to offend you, but you seem to be a young person who had an opportunity to feel by yourself results of complete degradation of educational system of Ukraine...

though I may be wrong..

 

[rupol2000]

though I may be wrong..

No, a believer cannot be wrong

 

[rupol2000]

I see, you seem to live in Novorossia on Western border of it with Ukraine

Where is "Novorossiya" here?

 

[Siberian]

Where is "Novorossiya" here?

it more or less coinsides with Russian speaking South and East of what is called Ukraine now.
sooner or later, but I think within next 10-15 years Novorissia (up to Kiev, including Kiev) will reunite with Russia.
The center is discussible, the Yellow Roguli region will be left to Poland, Romania, Hungary and for self determination.

 

[rupol2000]

It should also be noted that this difference between the Horde and the Russian soul is also manifested in modern musical culture. Moreover, it goes in waves. Now the period of the "Russian" style is going on, basically, and in the late 80s and 90s there was the Horde romantic style. This has always varied across regions. The Yekaterinburg rock club was of the Horde, they sang lyrics and decadence, in St. Petersburg there was mostly rough music. All this certainly does not correlate exactly now, but there is some correlation, if you look closely. Now the Horde art has gone underground, and the majors dominate the scene, nevertheless, the people still listen to compositions from the 90s, and they are possibly even more popular.
Including hussar romance.