Ben Stein Stumps Richard Dawkins.

[Hollie]

Interesting perspective:

More interesting reality:

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality.
Today Christians stand at the head of our country.
We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.
We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years."
[The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872]

Hitler believed in a superior, evolved race which compliments Darwinian doctrine. However, his view of Christianity in no way mirrored the teachings of Christ. Therefore, he was more of a proponent of Darwinism than he was of Christianity. He also needed the Roman Catholic Church's support during his rise to power so he needed to appeal to their dogma.

Nonsense. This is the propaganda that you get from hyper-religious creation ministries.

 

[edthecynic]

You quite obviously failed to watch this video:

Creation is a Scientific Fact (MUST SEE!) - YouTube

I suggest that you don't -- it will certainly throw your religion on its ear. Scientific fact after scientific fact. Irrefutable evidence for Intelligent Design.

I already shot holes in that video earlier and you ran away from it. You don't get to revive it without addressing my rebuttal!!!

LOL. You didn't even begin to "shoot holes" in the video.

I completely destroyed the credibility of the video, point by point, so thoroughly that you ran away from my post without comment.

Feel free to rebut my rebuttal of the video now. And a rebuttal is not pontification.

 

[Hollie]

Interesting perspective:

More interesting reality:

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality.
Today Christians stand at the head of our country.
We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.
We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years."
[The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872]

Hitler believed in a superior, evolved race which compliments Darwinian doctrine. However, his view of Christianity in no way mirrored the teachings of Christ. Therefore, he was more of a proponent of Darwinism than he was of Christianity. He also needed the Roman Catholic Church's support during his rise to power so he needed to appeal to their dogma.

It truly is remarkable how the religiously insane will convince themselves that their lies are real.

CA006.1: Hitler's views

Hitler based his ideas not on Darwinism but on a "divine right" philosophy:

Thus, it [the folkish philosophy] by no means believes in an equality of races, but along with their difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value and feels itself obligated, through this knowledge, to promote the victory of the better and stronger, and demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this universe. (Hitler 1943, 383)​

The first edition of Mein Kampf suggests that Hitler may once have believed in a young earth: "this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men" (p. 65; the second edition substitutes "millions" for "thousands," and chapter 11 refers to "hundreds of thousands of years" of life in another context.) Other passages further support his creationist leanings:

The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise. (Hitler 1943, 383)​

and

What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, . . . so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. (Hitler 1943, 214)​

Quotes from Hitler invoking Christianity as a basis for his actions could be multiplied ad nauseam. For example:

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord (Hitler 1943, 65).

"[T]he task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission (Hitler 1943, 398).

A campaign against the "godless movement" and an appeal for Catholic support were launched Wednesday by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces (Associated Press 1933).​

Of course, this does not mean that Hitler's ideas were based on creationism any more than they were based on evolution. Hitler's ideas were a perversion of both religion and biology.

The Nazi Party in general rejected Darwinism and supported Christianity. In 1935, Die Bücherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries, published a list of guidelines of works to reject, including:

Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel). (Die Bücherei 1935, 279)​

On the other hand, an undated "Blacklist for Public Libraries and Commercial Lending Libraries" includes the following on a list of literature which "absolutely must be removed":
c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk. (Blacklist n.d.)

Genocide and racism existed long before Darwin. Obviously, they did not need any contribution from Darwinism. In many instances, such as the Crusades and the Spanish conquest of Central America, religion was explicitly invoked to justify them.

Evolution does not promote social Darwinism or racism or eugenics.

 

[DriftingSand]

Using Science For Evangelism: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qcV9vVeS5w]Using Science for Evangelism - YouTube[/ame]

 

[DriftingSand]

The Need for Scientific Literacy: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ze4qCxCZo]The Need for Scientific Literacy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[DriftingSand]

Sudden Appearance of Fossils: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3H8oREbo_U"]Sudden Appearance of Fossils - YouTube[/ame]

 

[DriftingSand]

As compelling as Hugh Ross is I have to agree with Ken Ham in this case. Long video but Ken puts all authority in the Bible. I personally agree with him:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWXqHeaVl2c"]Ken Ham Refutes Hugh Ross in Debate - YouTube[/ame]

Christian friends. This is an important video. It will test your thoughts, beliefs, faith. I can see some truth from both Hugh Ross and Ken Ham but my spirit leads me to accept Ken Ham's understanding of Scripture. Very, very interesting!!

 

[Hollie]

As compelling as Hugh Ross is I have to agree with Ken Ham in this case. Long video but Ken puts all authority in the Bible. I personally agree with him:

Well, yeah. Humans co-existed with dinosaurs.


And the world is flat.

 

[DriftingSand]

Richard Dawkins stumped again: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W4e4MwogLo"]IS RICHARD DAWKINS REALLY STUMPED? The TRUTH - In His OWN WORDS - YES...he is! - YouTube[/ame]

Wow. There is not one single instance when a genetic mutation (in evolutionary terms) INCREASES information in the genetic or evolutionary process. That means that there is ZERO examples of a lesser life form "increasing" it's genetic information in such a manner as to morph into a greater life form. Quite telling indeed!

 

[PostmodernProph]

A fireman trying to save someone is not the same as you committing murder and you agreeing to allow them to hang your daughter in your place!!!

I can certainly agree with that....but that ignores my point.....God sacrificed himself, not someone else.......(not to mention God didn't commit any murders)......

And your daughter sacrificed herself and she didn't commit any murders, but in both cases it is still morally bankrupt to sacrifice an innocent for the evil deeds of the guilty no matter how willing the sacrificial victim.

and the fireman sacrificed himself to save the child and didn't commit any murders....why do you consider him to be morally bankrupt?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Was it "logic" that edited out "the Big Crunch" from my answer, or dishonesty?

Again providing evidence that Christians are certainly not honest.

I assumed that was a joke....was there any reason not to edit it out?......

The fact that you assumed the Big Crunch was a joke is testament to your ignorance on the subject.
Thank you.

obviously it could be nothing more than a previous Big Bang, so again, what caused that one.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Which would include the gods.

obviously not ones that don't have a beginning.....because, like he said, everything that has a beginning.....things that don't have a beginning are probably not included in the field of things that have a beginning, doncha' think?.....

You should try actually thinking. Try thinking about the unsupported and juvenile claim that your gods are excused from the very laws of existence that you claim they actually "designed "

Think about bringing a grown up argument to the table. You cannot demand a standard for all of existence, and then exempt something that is in existence of the very standard you insist must be applied to all things.

God isn't a "thing"....why would laws that apply to "things" apply to God?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

So now suddenly Jesus and God are not one and the same!

Num 31: 7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

when a judge sentences a person found guilty of a capital crime, does society consider the judge to be a murderer?.......

 

[edthecynic]

I can certainly agree with that....but that ignores my point.....God sacrificed himself, not someone else.......(not to mention God didn't commit any murders)......

And your daughter sacrificed herself and she didn't commit any murders, but in both cases it is still morally bankrupt to sacrifice an innocent for the evil deeds of the guilty no matter how willing the sacrificial victim.

and the fireman sacrificed himself to save the child and didn't commit any murders....why do you consider him to be morally bankrupt?.....

It was stupid the first time you posted it, and it it even more stupid to post it again after it has been rebutted.

There is a big difference between a fireman trying to save a child and himself from a fire and losing his life in the process, which by the way implies the child also died with the fireman's failure, and a innocent taking the place of the guilty on the gallows. The fireman does not enter the burning building under the assumption that his losing his life in the fire will save the child, whereas the guilty person knows an innocent will be punished in their place when they agree to it.

Come on, be honest and admit that the price of Christian salvation is moral bankruptcy.

 

[Steven_R]

Sudden Appearance of Fossils: Sudden Appearance of Fossils - YouTube
What About Transitional Forms? - YouTube

So where are their papers in Nature and Science and PNAS that kill evolution once and for all? Instead of explaining it to lay folk who have no scientific training and don't know scientific shit from religious shinola, why aren't these arguments being used to shut down the people who actually study evolutionary biology?

Stop trying to convince someone with no biology background and start convincing the people who do have a biology background if it is so clear.

 

[edthecynic]

Both Hitler and Darwin, as well as any sane person, would disagree with you.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison.
To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross.
As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows.
For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe
I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Again ... what he says doesn't mirror the teachings of Christ.

1) Christ, Himself, was of the tribe of Judah.
2) His disciples were of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
3) Many Jews believed on Him and were saved.
4) Christ never advocated concentration camps or the killing of anyone who opposed Him.

Jim Jones of Guyana mimicked some of the words of the Bible and claimed to be a Christian then ordered a massive, group suicide. Not something Christ would have even considered. So just because someone pays lip service to a belief doesn't mean that he's an adherent of that belief system -- not in real terms.

Darwinism, on the other hand, advocates "survival of the fittest" and preaches that species are always evolving to a higher state of being. Hitler's practical application of Darwinism was revealed and shown in his methods and tells the real story.

So now suddenly Jesus and God are not one and the same!

Num 31: 7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

when a judge sentences a person found guilty of a capital crime, does society consider the judge to be a murderer?.......

Deflection!

 

[edthecynic]

I assumed that was a joke....was there any reason not to edit it out?......

The fact that you assumed the Big Crunch was a joke is testament to your ignorance on the subject.
Thank you.

obviously it could be nothing more than a previous Big Bang, so again, what caused that one.....

The Big Bang is the expansion phase in the cycle of the universe of energy, and the Big Crunch is the compression phase. Gravity is the engine.

 

[Hollie]

Richard Dawkins stumped again: IS RICHARD DAWKINS REALLY STUMPED? The TRUTH - In His OWN WORDS - YES...he is! - YouTube

Wow. There is not one single instance when a genetic mutation (in evolutionary terms) INCREASES information in the genetic or evolutionary process. That means that there is ZERO examples of a lesser life form "increasing" it's genetic information in such a manner as to morph into a greater life form. Quite telling indeed!

What's quite telling indeed is your appalling lack of knowledge regarding biology.

How many mutations? - The Panda's Thumb

 

[Hollie]

obviously not ones that don't have a beginning.....because, like he said, everything that has a beginning.....things that don't have a beginning are probably not included in the field of things that have a beginning, doncha' think?.....

You should try actually thinking. Try thinking about the unsupported and juvenile claim that your gods are excused from the very laws of existence that you claim they actually "designed "

Think about bringing a grown up argument to the table. You cannot demand a standard for all of existence, and then exempt something that is in existence of the very standard you insist must be applied to all things.

God isn't a "thing"....why would laws that apply to "things" apply to God?......

Yet you stutter and mumble as usual when required to present a consistent, coherent argument.

I do understand your dilemma. You must excuse your gods from the requirements you insist must be applied to all of existence with the typical "...because I say so" nonsense.

You pre-define your supernatural gods as "excused" from any verifiable standard and then proceed calmly and "reasonably" inside that paradigm. You simply invent excuses why gods and magic are exempt from the same things you insist reality is required meet. At your level, it's "religious belief". At another level, it's utter delusion. Both are the same break from reality, the only difference is in degree and in overt harm it might cause.

Tell me, what is the difference between your assertion of supernatural entities and a certifiably insane person's claim that he is Napoleon? Both are equally demonstrable and reasonable claims, (according to your standards), and why should I believe your claims of “miracles” being real, but the individual with cognitive impairment (claiming to be Napoleon) is uttering a false claim?

 

[Hollie]

So now suddenly Jesus and God are not one and the same!

Num 31: 7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

when a judge sentences a person found guilty of a capital crime, does society consider the judge to be a murderer?.......

When a person asks such pointless questions, is there any reason to believe that person is not impaired?


Put your gods in the position of being the judge.

Interestingly, I would like to see anyone use the judeo-Christian gods as a standard for morality. Just make a list of the things Yahweh or Jehovah has done, and then go on and try to live according to that morality. They are the example after all, right?

There is no greater mass murderer in all of fictional literature than the OT gods. They murder relentlessly. The men who wrote the bibles (actually, the OT is Hebrew scripture co-opted by Christianity), even begin the opening chapters with the gods telling a lie.

No wonder your ethics and morality is so skewed.