Bernie Sanders : This Grotesque Level of Income and Wealth Inequality is Wrong

[P@triot]

You nicely summarized the complete and total failure of liberalism. It fails to account for the lack of equal effort, the lack of equal talent, the lack of equal output. But it demands equal results. It's a special kind of stupid that could only come from the left.

Black and white thinking at its 'best'.

LOL! Yeah...exactly. It's called facts. Forming policy off of shades of gray is exactly why liberal policy creates endless poverty, famine, and misery.

You remind me of the recent crop of leaders in my company. Nuance wasn't their bag either and the results were disastrous. Fortunately, 3 of the 4 main players have been forced out and I predict the fourth will be gone by July but the carnage they were responsible for will be with us for a LONG time.

Actually, "black and white" is nuance. Ignoring hard core data in favor of ideology is what causes problems. Again, creating policy off of shades of gray is suicide. If you don't know exactly what the problem is and exactly what the solutions are, then you should not act until you do. Study the problem. Study the proposed solutions. And above all else, eliminate the damn emotions. Liberal touchy-feely creates poverty and misery. Policy should be rooted in logic and reason. Not feelings.

There are times when a decision requires a choice of one path or another. But most times, a strategy requires a bunch or pieces acting in concert with each other. Black and white is a disaster in these instances.

I agree with that. Which is all the more reason why black & white is required. What you are describing politically (pieces and parts working in concert with each other) is very much like architectural designs or an engineer designing a clock, automobile, etc. Do you want wishy-washy "shades of gray" in the design of your automobile? Or do you want to know that all of the part will work flawlessly in "black & white" so that when you apply the breaks, the automobile actually stops?

 

[Slade3200]

Different cities have different supporting industries. Heavy industry has been the loser in the current game of corporatism. I live in what has become known as the Silicon Slopes as a software engineer. At the moment, I'm doing alright. However, the big shitty corporation I work for is doing their best to export jobs like mine to India. Fortunately, they just can't seem to get the job done and it looks likely that I'll be able to keep my job until retirement. But it's not guaranteed and given the short term, kiss-ass mentality of our illustrious leaders, there's not much incentive to be loyal.

And don't you see that all of that is the result of other nations providing a better deal for businesses? Businesses are exactly like consumers - they shop for the best deal. It's hilarious that you as a consumer shop for the best deal to save you money, but you don't expect business to do the same thing.

We as a nation are competing with other nations for businesses and jobs. When we make taxes, labor costs, regulatory costs, etc. cheaper than other nations, all the jobs will flood into this country. As long as liberals continue to demonize wealth and success and drive to "punish" business using taxes, labor, and regulations as tools/weapons, then we will continue to lose jobs over seas.

If you really don't want to lose your job to someone in another country, then vote Tea Party candidates. If you vote Dumbocrat, I don't feel sorry for you and frankly, you deserve to lose your job. The polices causing this are very clear. No company in hell would go through the extreme cost, the headaches, and most of all, the uncertainty of foreign nations if it was cheaper to keep jobs here. Apple manufactures products over in China because idiot liberals want to make the minimum wage $15 per hour or more here. Plus there are a ton of regulatory costs associated with labor, environment, etc. All of that adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it somewhere else. And the U.S. not only loses out on jobs, but the government loses out on both tax revenue from the employer and tax revenue from the employee.

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs. If American companies were to compete we would need to lower our standard of living to something similar to those areas we are competing with. That means dropping wages dramatically, skipping safety and quality control standards, and polluting the hell out of our environment. Is that the country your tea party is promoting?

And why do they have "a lower cost of living" and "lower labor costs"? Because they don't have $15 per hour minimum wage, and nonsensical "environmental" regulations to address an issue that doesn't exist.

Not only that, but with liberal policy we are a nation without jobs, which creates a nation without any tax income, which creates Detroit (where 60 Minutes one covered a segment on how the fire department can't even bring water to a fire because their tankers leak so bad, the water is gone by the time they get to the first). It's literally like a third-world hell-hole. Is that the country your Democrat party is promoting?

They have lower costs and wages because they have a much lower standard of living. Look at how their people live, look at the environment around those cities. It's mostly poverty.

 

[Slade3200]

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

That is stretching it quite a bit. That's like saying that because he might have to hire a painter or someone to do some repairs on the property, they are his "landlord" and he answer to them. Paying taxes doesn't make the government your landlord. You're paying for the services you receive (police, fire, courts, etc.). It's a cost of doing business, just like hiring a painter or a repair man.

To hire a painter or repairman is a choice you make in the free market. Paying taxes is a required action. Just like paying rent. You have no choice in the matter or you get "evicted" This means you don't have absolute ownership over your property. Your leasing the right to own. If you do business it's the same thing and your rules or contract lies in the laws and regulations set forth by the state and fed

Again, there is some truth to that. But you don't have to pay your taxes. Life is nothing but a series of choices. You can absolutely choose not to pay your taxes. You have to deal with the results of that choices. Just like you can choose not to hire that repairman, but then you're probably going to lose tenants.

Yes everything is a choice. The relation I'm showing is... If you are a tenant and don't pay your rent you get evicted. If you are a home owner and don't pay your taxes, you lose your ownership over the property... Meaning yoi don't truly own the property I the first place. Your ownership is contingent on you paying your "rent" aka property taxes. You choose not to hire or pay a repairman... You might end up in small claims court or with bad credit.

 

[P@triot]

Different cities have different supporting industries. Heavy industry has been the loser in the current game of corporatism. I live in what has become known as the Silicon Slopes as a software engineer. At the moment, I'm doing alright. However, the big shitty corporation I work for is doing their best to export jobs like mine to India. Fortunately, they just can't seem to get the job done and it looks likely that I'll be able to keep my job until retirement. But it's not guaranteed and given the short term, kiss-ass mentality of our illustrious leaders, there's not much incentive to be loyal.

And don't you see that all of that is the result of other nations providing a better deal for businesses? Businesses are exactly like consumers - they shop for the best deal. It's hilarious that you as a consumer shop for the best deal to save you money, but you don't expect business to do the same thing.

We as a nation are competing with other nations for businesses and jobs. When we make taxes, labor costs, regulatory costs, etc. cheaper than other nations, all the jobs will flood into this country. As long as liberals continue to demonize wealth and success and drive to "punish" business using taxes, labor, and regulations as tools/weapons, then we will continue to lose jobs over seas.

If you really don't want to lose your job to someone in another country, then vote Tea Party candidates. If you vote Dumbocrat, I don't feel sorry for you and frankly, you deserve to lose your job. The polices causing this are very clear. No company in hell would go through the extreme cost, the headaches, and most of all, the uncertainty of foreign nations if it was cheaper to keep jobs here. Apple manufactures products over in China because idiot liberals want to make the minimum wage $15 per hour or more here. Plus there are a ton of regulatory costs associated with labor, environment, etc. All of that adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it somewhere else. And the U.S. not only loses out on jobs, but the government loses out on both tax revenue from the employer and tax revenue from the employee.

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs. If American companies were to compete we would need to lower our standard of living to something similar to those areas we are competing with. That means dropping wages dramatically, skipping safety and quality control standards, and polluting the hell out of our environment. Is that the country your tea party is promoting?

And why do they have "a lower cost of living" and "lower labor costs"? Because they don't have $15 per hour minimum wage, and nonsensical "environmental" regulations to address an issue that doesn't exist.

Not only that, but with liberal policy we are a nation without jobs, which creates a nation without any tax income, which creates Detroit (where 60 Minutes one covered a segment on how the fire department can't even bring water to a fire because their tankers leak so bad, the water is gone by the time they get to the first). It's literally like a third-world hell-hole. Is that the country your Democrat party is promoting?

They have lower costs and wages because they have a much lower standard of living. Look at how their people live, look at the environment around those cities. It's mostly poverty.

Not true at all. Why do you think a pitiful shack costs $700,000 in California while a sprawling mansion in Texas (which completely and totally enjoys the "same standard of living") costs $500,000? Because Texas implements economic-friendly conservative policy, while California implements economic-crushing liberal policy.

Why has California lost BILLIONS in tax dollars from businesses and people leaving California while Texas has gained BILLIONS in tax dollars from businesses and people going to Texas? Exact same standard of living in both states. We both know the answer.

Why Businesses Leave California, by Sarah Rumpf, National Review

Blog: Money's leaving California in a hurry

SOI Tax Stats - Migration Data – 2013-2014

 

[bripat9643]

No, that's apples and oranges.

If my tenants don't like my rules, they can leave my property. If I don't like government, I do what I can to change the government.

You actually do have a voice to change the government which is more power than your tenants have to change your policies as you are the dictator in your property world. If you don't like your governments rules on your business you also have the choice to not run your own business... Get another job... or move to another country... Similar to your tenants choice to live elsewhere. It isn't apples and oranges, it is very similar. You just don't like the thought of YOU being the "tenant"

Once again, apples and oranges.

If my tenants don't like the way I do things, they can move down the street if another unit is available, or easily within five or ten miles from where they live. But you say if I don't like the way government does things, I should pack my bags, leave my family and friends, and move to another country? You call that an equal comparison?

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

I already know where this is going. If I tell you that the government will that the government will put me in prison and take my house if I don't pay my taxes, then you'll claim that means government has the "authority" to tax me. Along those same lines, if Guido the leg breaker gives me a beating and puts me in the hospital because I didn't pay him protection, then Guido has exactly the same kind of "authority" to charge me for protection. Don't you agree?

 

[Slade3200]

Different cities have different supporting industries. Heavy industry has been the loser in the current game of corporatism. I live in what has become known as the Silicon Slopes as a software engineer. At the moment, I'm doing alright. However, the big shitty corporation I work for is doing their best to export jobs like mine to India. Fortunately, they just can't seem to get the job done and it looks likely that I'll be able to keep my job until retirement. But it's not guaranteed and given the short term, kiss-ass mentality of our illustrious leaders, there's not much incentive to be loyal.

And don't you see that all of that is the result of other nations providing a better deal for businesses? Businesses are exactly like consumers - they shop for the best deal. It's hilarious that you as a consumer shop for the best deal to save you money, but you don't expect business to do the same thing.

We as a nation are competing with other nations for businesses and jobs. When we make taxes, labor costs, regulatory costs, etc. cheaper than other nations, all the jobs will flood into this country. As long as liberals continue to demonize wealth and success and drive to "punish" business using taxes, labor, and regulations as tools/weapons, then we will continue to lose jobs over seas.

If you really don't want to lose your job to someone in another country, then vote Tea Party candidates. If you vote Dumbocrat, I don't feel sorry for you and frankly, you deserve to lose your job. The polices causing this are very clear. No company in hell would go through the extreme cost, the headaches, and most of all, the uncertainty of foreign nations if it was cheaper to keep jobs here. Apple manufactures products over in China because idiot liberals want to make the minimum wage $15 per hour or more here. Plus there are a ton of regulatory costs associated with labor, environment, etc. All of that adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it somewhere else. And the U.S. not only loses out on jobs, but the government loses out on both tax revenue from the employer and tax revenue from the employee.

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs. If American companies were to compete we would need to lower our standard of living to something similar to those areas we are competing with. That means dropping wages dramatically, skipping safety and quality control standards, and polluting the hell out of our environment. Is that the country your tea party is promoting?

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs.

Baloney. American workers are more productive.
That's why Burkina Faso isn't the largest economy in the world.

I'm talking about competing with product costs. Run the numbers

I'm talking about competing with product costs.

American workers are more productive.
Do you not understand how productivity impacts "product costs"?

Yes I understand what productivity is, it still doesn't make a difference. I have an embroidery business and have run the numbers. I'd love to manufacture my textiles here in the US. I've looked into US manufactures and costs of setting up my owner manufacturing facility... We can't get anywhere near the pricing that China offers. The only "equalizer" is shipping which for my products is often more expensive than the actual product cost. After paying for the products and shipping, we are still 2x-3x cheaper than a US made product would cost. We would be out of business if we bought domestically. It's a shame, but many businesses out there are now dependant on this messed up system

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

That is stretching it quite a bit. That's like saying that because he might have to hire a painter or someone to do some repairs on the property, they are his "landlord" and he answer to them. Paying taxes doesn't make the government your landlord. You're paying for the services you receive (police, fire, courts, etc.). It's a cost of doing business, just like hiring a painter or a repair man.

To hire a painter or repairman is a choice you make in the free market. Paying taxes is a required action. Just like paying rent. You have no choice in the matter or you get "evicted" This means you don't have absolute ownership over your property. Your leasing the right to own. If you do business it's the same thing and your rules or contract lies in the laws and regulations set forth by the state and fed

Again, there is some truth to that. But you don't have to pay your taxes. Life is nothing but a series of choices. You can absolutely choose not to pay your taxes. You have to deal with the results of that choices. Just like you can choose not to hire that repairman, but then you're probably going to lose tenants.

Yes everything is a choice. The relation I'm showing is... If you are a tenant and don't pay your rent you get evicted. If you are a home owner and don't pay your taxes, you lose your ownership over the property... Meaning yoi don't truly own the property I the first place.Your ownership is contingent on you paying your "rent" aka property taxes. You choose not to hire or pay a repairman... You might end up in small claims court or with bad credit.

No, you goose stepping asshole, that means we live under a tyrannical government that oversteps its authority. According to you Jews in Nazi Germany were obligated to turn over the gold in their teeth to the government because the SS extracted it forcibly from them if they didn't.

You're fundamentally a servile totalitarian douche bag who believes we are all property of the government and that it's entitled to do whatever it likes with us. You have the moral code of a Nazi.

 

[Slade3200]

Different cities have different supporting industries. Heavy industry has been the loser in the current game of corporatism. I live in what has become known as the Silicon Slopes as a software engineer. At the moment, I'm doing alright. However, the big shitty corporation I work for is doing their best to export jobs like mine to India. Fortunately, they just can't seem to get the job done and it looks likely that I'll be able to keep my job until retirement. But it's not guaranteed and given the short term, kiss-ass mentality of our illustrious leaders, there's not much incentive to be loyal.

And don't you see that all of that is the result of other nations providing a better deal for businesses? Businesses are exactly like consumers - they shop for the best deal. It's hilarious that you as a consumer shop for the best deal to save you money, but you don't expect business to do the same thing.

We as a nation are competing with other nations for businesses and jobs. When we make taxes, labor costs, regulatory costs, etc. cheaper than other nations, all the jobs will flood into this country. As long as liberals continue to demonize wealth and success and drive to "punish" business using taxes, labor, and regulations as tools/weapons, then we will continue to lose jobs over seas.

If you really don't want to lose your job to someone in another country, then vote Tea Party candidates. If you vote Dumbocrat, I don't feel sorry for you and frankly, you deserve to lose your job. The polices causing this are very clear. No company in hell would go through the extreme cost, the headaches, and most of all, the uncertainty of foreign nations if it was cheaper to keep jobs here. Apple manufactures products over in China because idiot liberals want to make the minimum wage $15 per hour or more here. Plus there are a ton of regulatory costs associated with labor, environment, etc. All of that adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it somewhere else. And the U.S. not only loses out on jobs, but the government loses out on both tax revenue from the employer and tax revenue from the employee.

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs. If American companies were to compete we would need to lower our standard of living to something similar to those areas we are competing with. That means dropping wages dramatically, skipping safety and quality control standards, and polluting the hell out of our environment. Is that the country your tea party is promoting?

And why do they have "a lower cost of living" and "lower labor costs"? Because they don't have $15 per hour minimum wage, and nonsensical "environmental" regulations to address an issue that doesn't exist.

Not only that, but with liberal policy we are a nation without jobs, which creates a nation without any tax income, which creates Detroit (where 60 Minutes one covered a segment on how the fire department can't even bring water to a fire because their tankers leak so bad, the water is gone by the time they get to the first). It's literally like a third-world hell-hole. Is that the country your Democrat party is promoting?

They have lower costs and wages because they have a much lower standard of living. Look at how their people live, look at the environment around those cities. It's mostly poverty.

Not true at all. Why do you think a pitiful shack costs $700,000 in California while a sprawling mansion in Texas (which completely and totally enjoys the "same standard of living") costs $500,000? Because Texas implements economic-friendly conservative policy, while California implements economic-crushing liberal policy.

Why has California lost BILLIONS in tax dollars from businesses and people leaving California while Texas has gained BILLIONS in tax dollars from businesses and people going to Texas? Exact same standard of living in both states. We both know the answer.

Why Businesses Leave California, by Sarah Rumpf, National Review

Blog: Money's leaving California in a hurry

SOI Tax Stats - Migration Data – 2013-2014

It's also about demand.... I grew up in california and also lived in Texas for 6 years and own a house out there. In that 6 years I saw housing prices rise in Austin Texas to California rates in the downtown area because so many people were moving out there. I think more states and the Feds could learn something from the biz friendly environment that Texas has created. Texas is also rich because of its oil industry which they capitalized on in a much better way than California

 

[Slade3200]

You actually do have a voice to change the government which is more power than your tenants have to change your policies as you are the dictator in your property world. If you don't like your governments rules on your business you also have the choice to not run your own business... Get another job... or move to another country... Similar to your tenants choice to live elsewhere. It isn't apples and oranges, it is very similar. You just don't like the thought of YOU being the "tenant"

Once again, apples and oranges.

If my tenants don't like the way I do things, they can move down the street if another unit is available, or easily within five or ten miles from where they live. But you say if I don't like the way government does things, I should pack my bags, leave my family and friends, and move to another country? You call that an equal comparison?

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

I already know where this is going. If I tell you that the government will that the government will put me in prison and take my house if I don't pay my taxes, then you'll claim that means government has the "authority" to tax me. Along those same lines, if Guido the leg breaker gives me a beating and puts me in the hospital because I didn't pay him protection, then Guido has exactly the same kind of "authority" to charge me for protection. Don't you agree?

Yes I agree except our government with our police and military has claimed this bitch. Guido could try to do his own thing but he eventually is going to get squashed by the overwhelming force of our government. You catch the orgeon situation a few months ago?? The only way anybody is going to succeed or gain independence from our government rule is by a financial deal or by winning a war for territory

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Once again, apples and oranges.

If my tenants don't like the way I do things, they can move down the street if another unit is available, or easily within five or ten miles from where they live. But you say if I don't like the way government does things, I should pack my bags, leave my family and friends, and move to another country? You call that an equal comparison?

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

 

[Slade3200]

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

That is stretching it quite a bit. That's like saying that because he might have to hire a painter or someone to do some repairs on the property, they are his "landlord" and he answer to them. Paying taxes doesn't make the government your landlord. You're paying for the services you receive (police, fire, courts, etc.). It's a cost of doing business, just like hiring a painter or a repair man.

To hire a painter or repairman is a choice you make in the free market. Paying taxes is a required action. Just like paying rent. You have no choice in the matter or you get "evicted" This means you don't have absolute ownership over your property. Your leasing the right to own. If you do business it's the same thing and your rules or contract lies in the laws and regulations set forth by the state and fed

Again, there is some truth to that. But you don't have to pay your taxes. Life is nothing but a series of choices. You can absolutely choose not to pay your taxes. You have to deal with the results of that choices. Just like you can choose not to hire that repairman, but then you're probably going to lose tenants.

Yes everything is a choice. The relation I'm showing is... If you are a tenant and don't pay your rent you get evicted. If you are a home owner and don't pay your taxes, you lose your ownership over the property... Meaning yoi don't truly own the property I the first place.Your ownership is contingent on you paying your "rent" aka property taxes. You choose not to hire or pay a repairman... You might end up in small claims court or with bad credit.

No, you goose stepping asshole, that means we live under a tyrannical government that oversteps its authority. According to you Jews in Nazi Germany were obligated to turn over the gold in their teeth to the government because the SS extracted it forcibly from them if they didn't.

You're fundamentally a servile totalitarian douche bag who believes we are all property of the government and that it's entitled to do whatever it likes with us. You have the moral code of a Nazi.

You are a very simple person aren't you? You have every right to argue for less government regulation, but you live in a dreamland with your idiotic rants. You can't even admit to the reality of our world. Object if you want but don't deny its existence. Even though you may object, the majority of people understand the role and appreciate the services and protections that the government provides. It's then a discussion about policy, law and strategy to make the system better as it is far from perfect. You seem to think the entire system is a violation of your rights. Are you an anarchist? Is that your thing?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And don't you see that all of that is the result of other nations providing a better deal for businesses? Businesses are exactly like consumers - they shop for the best deal. It's hilarious that you as a consumer shop for the best deal to save you money, but you don't expect business to do the same thing.

We as a nation are competing with other nations for businesses and jobs. When we make taxes, labor costs, regulatory costs, etc. cheaper than other nations, all the jobs will flood into this country. As long as liberals continue to demonize wealth and success and drive to "punish" business using taxes, labor, and regulations as tools/weapons, then we will continue to lose jobs over seas.

If you really don't want to lose your job to someone in another country, then vote Tea Party candidates. If you vote Dumbocrat, I don't feel sorry for you and frankly, you deserve to lose your job. The polices causing this are very clear. No company in hell would go through the extreme cost, the headaches, and most of all, the uncertainty of foreign nations if it was cheaper to keep jobs here. Apple manufactures products over in China because idiot liberals want to make the minimum wage $15 per hour or more here. Plus there are a ton of regulatory costs associated with labor, environment, etc. All of that adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it somewhere else. And the U.S. not only loses out on jobs, but the government loses out on both tax revenue from the employer and tax revenue from the employee.

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs. If American companies were to compete we would need to lower our standard of living to something similar to those areas we are competing with. That means dropping wages dramatically, skipping safety and quality control standards, and polluting the hell out of our environment. Is that the country your tea party is promoting?

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs.

Baloney. American workers are more productive.
That's why Burkina Faso isn't the largest economy in the world.

I'm talking about competing with product costs. Run the numbers

I'm talking about competing with product costs.

American workers are more productive.
Do you not understand how productivity impacts "product costs"?

Yes I understand what productivity is, it still doesn't make a difference. I have an embroidery business and have run the numbers. I'd love to manufacture my textiles here in the US. I've looked into US manufactures and costs of setting up my owner manufacturing facility... We can't get anywhere near the pricing that China offers. The only "equalizer" is shipping which for my products is often more expensive than the actual product cost. After paying for the products and shipping, we are still 2x-3x cheaper than a US made product would cost. We would be out of business if we bought domestically. It's a shame, but many businesses out there are now dependant on this messed up system

Yes I understand what productivity is, it still doesn't make a difference.

Productivity doesn't make any difference? Just wow!

 

[Slade3200]

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

 

[Slade3200]

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs. If American companies were to compete we would need to lower our standard of living to something similar to those areas we are competing with. That means dropping wages dramatically, skipping safety and quality control standards, and polluting the hell out of our environment. Is that the country your tea party is promoting?

strip every single regulation and tax and we still could not compete with other other countries that have a lower cost of living and lower labor costs.

Baloney. American workers are more productive.
That's why Burkina Faso isn't the largest economy in the world.

I'm talking about competing with product costs. Run the numbers

I'm talking about competing with product costs.

American workers are more productive.
Do you not understand how productivity impacts "product costs"?

Yes I understand what productivity is, it still doesn't make a difference. I have an embroidery business and have run the numbers. I'd love to manufacture my textiles here in the US. I've looked into US manufactures and costs of setting up my owner manufacturing facility... We can't get anywhere near the pricing that China offers. The only "equalizer" is shipping which for my products is often more expensive than the actual product cost. After paying for the products and shipping, we are still 2x-3x cheaper than a US made product would cost. We would be out of business if we bought domestically. It's a shame, but many businesses out there are now dependant on this messed up system

Yes I understand what productivity is, it still doesn't make a difference.

Productivity doesn't make any difference? Just wow!

Dude, stop being difficult... We aren't in your debate class. Yes productivity makes a difference, it doesn't close the gap to make us price competitive with over seas manufacturing. Am I going to have to spell everything out for you? If you can't keep up then try another thread

 

[JoeNormal]

Black and white thinking at its 'best'.

LOL! Yeah...exactly. It's called facts. Forming policy off of shades of gray is exactly why liberal policy creates endless poverty, famine, and misery.

You remind me of the recent crop of leaders in my company. Nuance wasn't their bag either and the results were disastrous. Fortunately, 3 of the 4 main players have been forced out and I predict the fourth will be gone by July but the carnage they were responsible for will be with us for a LONG time.

Actually, "black and white" is nuance. Ignoring hard core data in favor of ideology is what causes problems. Again, creating policy off of shades of gray is suicide. If you don't know exactly what the problem is and exactly what the solutions are, then you should not act until you do. Study the problem. Study the proposed solutions. And above all else, eliminate the damn emotions. Liberal touchy-feely creates poverty and misery. Policy should be rooted in logic and reason. Not feelings.

There are times when a decision requires a choice of one path or another. But most times, a strategy requires a bunch or pieces acting in concert with each other. Black and white is a disaster in these instances.

I agree with that. Which is all the more reason why black & white is required. What you are describing politically (pieces and parts working in concert with each other) is very much like architectural designs or an engineer designing a clock, automobile, etc. Do you want wishy-washy "shades of gray" in the design of your automobile? Or do you want to know that all of the part will work flawlessly in "black & white" so that when you apply the breaks, the automobile actually stops?

If only political decision making were as precise as engineering. About the only person I know of who is trying to get it into that realm is Bruce Bueno de Mesquita.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

 

[bripat9643]

That's a fantasy if you think that's our world. You can't break laws or regulations set forth with your business. You can only operate if you register and pay taxes. This is reality. You lease the right to own In this country no matter what you tell yourself. If you don't believe me then stop paying taxes and hire a bunch of children to work for $1 per hour and see how your "full dictatioral control" works out for you

So lets apply your "logic" here to something else, shall we? The Green River Killer brutally raped and murdered over 40 women. Since that happened, it must make it ok for me to do the same, right?

Illegal stuff happens every day in this country because it's filled with liberals who refuse to accept the rule of law. Just because a state or city passes a law, doesn't make that law constitutional or right. A great example is the idiot Bill DeBlasio in New York. He's not only outlawed firearms (a major violation of the 2nd Amendment), but he also authorized his officers to "stop and frisk" without any probable cause (a major violation of the 4th Amendment). You know it. I know it. Bill DeBlasio knows it.

There are dirt-bag libtards in office all over this country violating the law. It doesn't make it legal or ok.

What are you talking about man? Somebody rapes women and you think liberals think that makes it ok. And all law breaking is liberals too? Are you high?

"What am I taking about"? According to you, if a law is passed (whether that law violates the U.S. Constitution or not), that makes it "ok". So by your own logic - since The Green River Killer raped and murdered women (even though they is not ok), that precedence makes it ok for me to do it too.

What law allowed him to rape? And I'm all for questioning, fighting, reversing, and evolving our laws and regulations. I never made any mention of just sitting back content ly if you don't agree with something. Many in this discussion are objecting to the governments authority to impose law which is just absurd

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

 

[bripat9643]

Once again, apples and oranges.

If my tenants don't like the way I do things, they can move down the street if another unit is available, or easily within five or ten miles from where they live. But you say if I don't like the way government does things, I should pack my bags, leave my family and friends, and move to another country? You call that an equal comparison?

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

I already know where this is going. If I tell you that the government will that the government will put me in prison and take my house if I don't pay my taxes, then you'll claim that means government has the "authority" to tax me. Along those same lines, if Guido the leg breaker gives me a beating and puts me in the hospital because I didn't pay him protection, then Guido has exactly the same kind of "authority" to charge me for protection. Don't you agree?

Yes I agree except our government with our police and military has claimed this bitch. Guido could try to do his own thing but he eventually is going to get squashed by the overwhelming force of our government. You catch the orgeon situation a few months ago?? The only way anybody is going to succeed or gain independence from our government rule is by a financial deal or by winning a war for territory

So you apparently have no problem with the Nazi invasion of Poland. In your view, that's how things are "authorized."

 

[bripat9643]

That is stretching it quite a bit. That's like saying that because he might have to hire a painter or someone to do some repairs on the property, they are his "landlord" and he answer to them. Paying taxes doesn't make the government your landlord. You're paying for the services you receive (police, fire, courts, etc.). It's a cost of doing business, just like hiring a painter or a repair man.

To hire a painter or repairman is a choice you make in the free market. Paying taxes is a required action. Just like paying rent. You have no choice in the matter or you get "evicted" This means you don't have absolute ownership over your property. Your leasing the right to own. If you do business it's the same thing and your rules or contract lies in the laws and regulations set forth by the state and fed

Again, there is some truth to that. But you don't have to pay your taxes. Life is nothing but a series of choices. You can absolutely choose not to pay your taxes. You have to deal with the results of that choices. Just like you can choose not to hire that repairman, but then you're probably going to lose tenants.

Yes everything is a choice. The relation I'm showing is... If you are a tenant and don't pay your rent you get evicted. If you are a home owner and don't pay your taxes, you lose your ownership over the property... Meaning yoi don't truly own the property I the first place.Your ownership is contingent on you paying your "rent" aka property taxes. You choose not to hire or pay a repairman... You might end up in small claims court or with bad credit.

No, you goose stepping asshole, that means we live under a tyrannical government that oversteps its authority. According to you Jews in Nazi Germany were obligated to turn over the gold in their teeth to the government because the SS extracted it forcibly from them if they didn't.

You're fundamentally a servile totalitarian douche bag who believes we are all property of the government and that it's entitled to do whatever it likes with us. You have the moral code of a Nazi.

You are a very simple person aren't you? You have every right to argue for less government regulation, but you live in a dreamland with your idiotic rants. You can't even admit to the reality of our world. Object if you want but don't deny its existence. Even though you may object, the majority of people understand the role and appreciate the services and protections that the government provides. It's then a discussion about policy, law and strategy to make the system better as it is far from perfect. You seem to think the entire system is a violation of your rights. Are you an anarchist? Is that your thing?

You may be content to walk down the chute to the abattoir, but I'm not. What you're doing is simply demanding that I accept your premise that it's OK to slaughter human beings so you can get on to the discussion of how the carcass is to be divided up.

I don't deny that government has the ability to take all my stuff and put my in prison, but unlike you I don't calmly accept treating me like a piece of property as some kind of legitimate "authority" on the part of the government. As you admitted, government is no more legitimate than Guido the Leg Breaker. That you are content with this arrangement only shows that you intelligence is bovine.

 

[bripat9643]

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

No one is denying the reality that government can impose its will on us, bonehead.