Bernie Sanders : This Grotesque Level of Income and Wealth Inequality is Wrong

[Slade3200]

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

 

[bripat9643]

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government.

Thanks for giving us permission to view our property as belonging to us, douche bag.

If you don't pay then you don't own.

You mean if you don't pay then the government extortion racket will steal it from you.

If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city.

Another clear violation of the 5th Amendment.

This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

Your "landlord/tenant analogy" makes sense only to Nazi douche bags. Those who have some understanding of basic morality and property rights are appalled by your analogy.

 

[Slade3200]

That's a fantasy if you think that's our world. You can't break laws or regulations set forth with your business. You can only operate if you register and pay taxes. This is reality. You lease the right to own In this country no matter what you tell yourself. If you don't believe me then stop paying taxes and hire a bunch of children to work for $1 per hour and see how your "full dictatioral control" works out for you

So lets apply your "logic" here to something else, shall we? The Green River Killer brutally raped and murdered over 40 women. Since that happened, it must make it ok for me to do the same, right?

Illegal stuff happens every day in this country because it's filled with liberals who refuse to accept the rule of law. Just because a state or city passes a law, doesn't make that law constitutional or right. A great example is the idiot Bill DeBlasio in New York. He's not only outlawed firearms (a major violation of the 2nd Amendment), but he also authorized his officers to "stop and frisk" without any probable cause (a major violation of the 4th Amendment). You know it. I know it. Bill DeBlasio knows it.

There are dirt-bag libtards in office all over this country violating the law. It doesn't make it legal or ok.

What are you talking about man? Somebody rapes women and you think liberals think that makes it ok. And all law breaking is liberals too? Are you high?

"What am I taking about"? According to you, if a law is passed (whether that law violates the U.S. Constitution or not), that makes it "ok". So by your own logic - since The Green River Killer raped and murdered women (even though they is not ok), that precedence makes it ok for me to do it too.

What law allowed him to rape? And I'm all for questioning, fighting, reversing, and evolving our laws and regulations. I never made any mention of just sitting back content ly if you don't agree with something. Many in this discussion are objecting to the governments authority to impose law which is just absurd

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

Existing law is passed by the government, the government is comprised of officials that are elected by the people. We live in a Republic where we vote for people to represent our communities and they are then responsible for making law. Politics101. This system means that we have a voice to change and evolve our laws based on the needs and consensus of our communities. You have a very extreme point of view and are upset that things aren't going your way. This is because most people, including our leadership do not share you point of view. You seem to have difficulty understanding this.

Also, you keep missing the point and to be honest i'm getting tired of explaining things to you so lets just call it quits and go our separate ways...

 

[bripat9643]

So lets apply your "logic" here to something else, shall we? The Green River Killer brutally raped and murdered over 40 women. Since that happened, it must make it ok for me to do the same, right?

Illegal stuff happens every day in this country because it's filled with liberals who refuse to accept the rule of law. Just because a state or city passes a law, doesn't make that law constitutional or right. A great example is the idiot Bill DeBlasio in New York. He's not only outlawed firearms (a major violation of the 2nd Amendment), but he also authorized his officers to "stop and frisk" without any probable cause (a major violation of the 4th Amendment). You know it. I know it. Bill DeBlasio knows it.

There are dirt-bag libtards in office all over this country violating the law. It doesn't make it legal or ok.

What are you talking about man? Somebody rapes women and you think liberals think that makes it ok. And all law breaking is liberals too? Are you high?

"What am I taking about"? According to you, if a law is passed (whether that law violates the U.S. Constitution or not), that makes it "ok". So by your own logic - since The Green River Killer raped and murdered women (even though they is not ok), that precedence makes it ok for me to do it too.

What law allowed him to rape? And I'm all for questioning, fighting, reversing, and evolving our laws and regulations. I never made any mention of just sitting back content ly if you don't agree with something. Many in this discussion are objecting to the governments authority to impose law which is just absurd

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

Existing law is passed by the government, the government is comprised of officials that are elected by the people. We live in a Republic where we vote for people to represent our communities and they are then responsible for making law. Politics101.

Yeah, so what's your point? Do you believe that process means all laws are just? That they are "authorized?" Segregation was passed the same way.

This system means that we have a voice to change and evolve our laws based on the needs and consensus of our communities. You have a very extreme point of view and are upset that things aren't going your way. This is because most people, including our leadership do not share you point of view. You seem to have difficulty understanding this.

You still haven't proved that laws imposed by the mob are just or moral or ethical. Whether I'm "upset" is beside the point. I rightly point out that you're an amoral douche bag who doesn't believe it's possible to have an immoral or unjust law. Might makes right. Whatever the mob wants is moral and just.

Also, you keep missing the point and to be honest i'm getting tired of explaining things to you so lets just call it quits and go our separate ways...

No, you miss the point. You keep quoting the law to me if that's what I was debating.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

My point is taxation does not equate ownership is all I'm saying. If that were true, then government owns my horse bet ticket which I would have to pay taxes on if I win. Government owns my stocks and even my IRA. Government owns my car and my lottery tickets.

Taxation is taxation and property is ownership. If I were "leasing" my property, then my lease has an expiration date. My lease would have a buy-out plan after the lease expires. I would have to return my property to the government in the condition in which I purchased it or pay restitution.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

My point is taxation does not equate ownership is all I'm saying. If that were true, then government owns my horse bet ticket which I would have to pay taxes on if I win. Government owns my stocks and even my IRA. Government owns my car and my lottery tickets.

Taxation is taxation and property is ownership. If I were "leasing" my property, then my lease has an expiration date. My lease would have a buy-out plan after the lease expires. I would have to return my property to the government in the condition in which I purchased it or pay restitution.

I don't know why you waste your time trying to educate this douche bag. He's immune to learning new things. If you don't agree with all his premises, then you are "extreme!"

 

[Slade3200]

What are you talking about man? Somebody rapes women and you think liberals think that makes it ok. And all law breaking is liberals too? Are you high?

"What am I taking about"? According to you, if a law is passed (whether that law violates the U.S. Constitution or not), that makes it "ok". So by your own logic - since The Green River Killer raped and murdered women (even though they is not ok), that precedence makes it ok for me to do it too.

What law allowed him to rape? And I'm all for questioning, fighting, reversing, and evolving our laws and regulations. I never made any mention of just sitting back content ly if you don't agree with something. Many in this discussion are objecting to the governments authority to impose law which is just absurd

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

Existing law is passed by the government, the government is comprised of officials that are elected by the people. We live in a Republic where we vote for people to represent our communities and they are then responsible for making law. Politics101.

Yeah, so what's your point? Do you believe that process means all laws are just? That they are "authorized?" Segregation was passed the same way.

This system means that we have a voice to change and evolve our laws based on the needs and consensus of our communities. You have a very extreme point of view and are upset that things aren't going your way. This is because most people, including our leadership do not share you point of view. You seem to have difficulty understanding this.

You still haven't proved that laws imposed by the mob are just or moral or ethical. Whether I'm "upset" is beside the point. I rightly point out that you're an amoral douche bag who doesn't believe it's possible to have an immoral or unjust law. Might makes right. Whatever the mob wants is moral and just.

Also, you keep missing the point and to be honest i'm getting tired of explaining things to you so lets just call it quits and go our separate ways...

No, you miss the point. You keep quoting the law to me if that's what I was debating.

I'm simply stating what is... Whether something is moral or just is a matter of perspective.

 

[Michelle420]

Bernie's right.

 

[Slade3200]

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

My point is taxation does not equate ownership is all I'm saying. If that were true, then government owns my horse bet ticket which I would have to pay taxes on if I win. Government owns my stocks and even my IRA. Government owns my car and my lottery tickets.

Taxation is taxation and property is ownership. If I were "leasing" my property, then my lease has an expiration date. My lease would have a buy-out plan after the lease expires. I would have to return my property to the government in the condition in which I purchased it or pay restitution.

Along with property the government owns our currency and commerce which is why you pay to participate. Again it is a matter of perspective... We don't need to go down the rabbit hole again. You get the point

 

[bripat9643]

"What am I taking about"? According to you, if a law is passed (whether that law violates the U.S. Constitution or not), that makes it "ok". So by your own logic - since The Green River Killer raped and murdered women (even though they is not ok), that precedence makes it ok for me to do it too.

What law allowed him to rape? And I'm all for questioning, fighting, reversing, and evolving our laws and regulations. I never made any mention of just sitting back content ly if you don't agree with something. Many in this discussion are objecting to the governments authority to impose law which is just absurd

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

Existing law is passed by the government, the government is comprised of officials that are elected by the people. We live in a Republic where we vote for people to represent our communities and they are then responsible for making law. Politics101.

Yeah, so what's your point? Do you believe that process means all laws are just? That they are "authorized?" Segregation was passed the same way.

This system means that we have a voice to change and evolve our laws based on the needs and consensus of our communities. You have a very extreme point of view and are upset that things aren't going your way. This is because most people, including our leadership do not share you point of view. You seem to have difficulty understanding this.

You still haven't proved that laws imposed by the mob are just or moral or ethical. Whether I'm "upset" is beside the point. I rightly point out that you're an amoral douche bag who doesn't believe it's possible to have an immoral or unjust law. Might makes right. Whatever the mob wants is moral and just.

Also, you keep missing the point and to be honest i'm getting tired of explaining things to you so lets just call it quits and go our separate ways...

No, you miss the point. You keep quoting the law to me if that's what I was debating.

I'm simply stating what is... Whether something is moral or just is a matter of perspective.

Yeah, right. Whether sticking Jews in gas ovens is moral is "just a matter of perspective." What do you think the Jewish perspective on that is?

You do more than state "what is." You make it clear you have no problem with whatever government does.

 

[bripat9643]

No, not at all. Just because you are forced to pay taxes on something doesn't mean government owns it.

I have to pay (and I just did) to have license plate stickers to drive my car. If I don't have those stickers, I get stopped by a cop and he tows my car. It doesn't mean it's the governments car and I'm just borrowing it, it's still my car. They have the legal right to take my property from me because I didn't pay the fee (tax) for my license plate stickers.

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

My point is taxation does not equate ownership is all I'm saying. If that were true, then government owns my horse bet ticket which I would have to pay taxes on if I win. Government owns my stocks and even my IRA. Government owns my car and my lottery tickets.

Taxation is taxation and property is ownership. If I were "leasing" my property, then my lease has an expiration date. My lease would have a buy-out plan after the lease expires. I would have to return my property to the government in the condition in which I purchased it or pay restitution.

Along with property the government owns our currency and commerce which is why you pay to participate. Again it is a matter of perspective... We don't need to go down the rabbit hole again. You get the point

What you mean is that government has made it illegal for anyone to create their own currency. How does the government "own" commerce?

We all know you don't want to "go down the rabbit hole," meaning you don't want to explain your idiot theories.

 

[Markle]

Translation: I can't prove there's anything wrong with it, or even find any evidence that the rich people somehow stole from the poor people. But if I keep telling the same lie over and over, my mentor says that people will believe it and it will become The Truth. And enough people might get fooled into voting for me, that I'll win anyway.

If average people could have a better lifestyle 40 years ago on one income when productivity has exploded over those years, what's your explanation for what has changed?

We've sadly injected more liberal socialism into policy. And it creates collapse. Just ask Detroit. Over 60 years of liberal utopia - a Democrat mayor all of those years, a Democrat-controlled city council all of those years, plus massive unions like the UAW and teacher unions. And what does the city have to show for that? Poverty. Famine. Misery. The place is like a third-world hell-hole now thanks to liberalism.

Nope, Reagan put us on a path in which whatever the large coporations wanted, the large corporations got. They crushed whatever representation the average guy had and the squeeze continue in earnest today.

One small problem Joe. Actually....it's a huge problem If Reagan's policy is responsible for Detroit's bankruptcy, why is it that cities across the nation under Reagan's exact same policies are flourishing? Places all over Texas, North Dakota, North Carolina, etc.

Sorry chief....but Detroit is undeniable proof of the failure of liberalism and you can't possibly blame it on anything conservative since other cities have flourished while that poor city collapsed under the weight of the cancer that is liberalism.

Different cities have different supporting industries. Heavy industry has been the loser in the current game of corporatism. I live in what has become known as the Silicon Slopes as a software engineer. At the moment, I'm doing alright. However, the big shitty corporation I work for is doing their best to export jobs like mine to India. Fortunately, they just can't seem to get the job done and it looks likely that I'll be able to keep my job until retirement. But it's not guaranteed and given the short term, kiss-ass mentality of our illustrious leaders, there's not much incentive to be loyal.

If you feel that way about the company paying you, leave.

 

[Slade3200]

What law allowed him to rape? And I'm all for questioning, fighting, reversing, and evolving our laws and regulations. I never made any mention of just sitting back content ly if you don't agree with something. Many in this discussion are objecting to the governments authority to impose law which is just absurd

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

Existing law is passed by the government, the government is comprised of officials that are elected by the people. We live in a Republic where we vote for people to represent our communities and they are then responsible for making law. Politics101.

Yeah, so what's your point? Do you believe that process means all laws are just? That they are "authorized?" Segregation was passed the same way.

This system means that we have a voice to change and evolve our laws based on the needs and consensus of our communities. You have a very extreme point of view and are upset that things aren't going your way. This is because most people, including our leadership do not share you point of view. You seem to have difficulty understanding this.

You still haven't proved that laws imposed by the mob are just or moral or ethical. Whether I'm "upset" is beside the point. I rightly point out that you're an amoral douche bag who doesn't believe it's possible to have an immoral or unjust law. Might makes right. Whatever the mob wants is moral and just.

Also, you keep missing the point and to be honest i'm getting tired of explaining things to you so lets just call it quits and go our separate ways...

No, you miss the point. You keep quoting the law to me if that's what I was debating.

I'm simply stating what is... Whether something is moral or just is a matter of perspective.

Yeah, right. Whether sticking Jews in gas ovens is moral is "just a matter of perspective." What do you think the Jewish perspective on that is?

You do more than state "what is." You make it clear you have no problem with whatever government does.

Whatever man, stop responding to my posts if you think I'm such an idiot. I obviously struck a chord with something

 

[Slade3200]

As I mentioned before, you can claim complete ownership over your consumable goods, toothbrush and underwear are all you. Your car it's yours for the most part, but it is also at risk of being impounded or repossessed if you don't follow the contract or Law that you are required to follow in this country. Come on dude, I inderstand healthy debate but this isn't an issue arguement... It's just what is... You can object to its effectiveness... But don't deny its existence

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

My point is taxation does not equate ownership is all I'm saying. If that were true, then government owns my horse bet ticket which I would have to pay taxes on if I win. Government owns my stocks and even my IRA. Government owns my car and my lottery tickets.

Taxation is taxation and property is ownership. If I were "leasing" my property, then my lease has an expiration date. My lease would have a buy-out plan after the lease expires. I would have to return my property to the government in the condition in which I purchased it or pay restitution.

Along with property the government owns our currency and commerce which is why you pay to participate. Again it is a matter of perspective... We don't need to go down the rabbit hole again. You get the point

What you mean is that government has made it illegal for anyone to create their own currency. How does the government "own" commerce?

We all know you don't want to "go down the rabbit hole," meaning you don't want to explain your idiot theories.

It means you pay taxes on commerce dumbshit. I shouldn't have to explain everything to your pea brain. I'm done with you

 

[Markle]

Once again, apples and oranges.

If my tenants don't like the way I do things, they can move down the street if another unit is available, or easily within five or ten miles from where they live. But you say if I don't like the way government does things, I should pack my bags, leave my family and friends, and move to another country? You call that an equal comparison?

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

Each state has a very specific process for collecting property taxes and handling delinquent taxes. There is nothing "may" about the process. If anyone has a mortgage on property the vast majority of mortgages today require the taxes and hazard insurance be escrowed with each payment so there is no chance of the taxes going unpaid. I would think you would love the idea of taxes being collected.

 

[Slade3200]

All things considered they are pretty close... Yes if you can see the relation that you And your property has with the government and their/our United States

There's no comparison, and only a bootlicking douche bag would claim there was. The federal government doesn't own my house, my street, my town or my state. The federal government doesn't even have authority to own property other than what's strictly needed to perform its functions.

You pump out the most unbelievable horseshit into this forum and then expect other forum members to treat it like it's some kind of received wisdom that they are obligated to treat with respect. It's shit, caca, manure, horse squeeze.

Ok genius, then answer the question... What happens to you and your house if you don't pay taxes?

The same thing as when somebody sues you and you don't pay such as running up an outstanding balance with a creditor like a hospital or nursing home.

Wrong, you should know this mr landlord. If you don't pay your property taxes the delinquent amount is held as a lien against the property and may be forclosed upon and sold by the government.

Does that sound like you own the property or does it sound like you have a "landlord" in the deal. Sorry man, we are all leasing our rights to own property and do business in this country from the institution that really owns both. It's how the system works

Each state has a very specific process for collecting property taxes and handling delinquent taxes. There is nothing "may" about the process. If anyone has a mortgage on property the vast majority of mortgages today require the taxes and hazard insurance be escrowed with each payment so there is no chance of the taxes going unpaid. I would think you would love the idea of taxes being collected.

I hate taxes even more than going to the dentist

 

[Markle]

You actually do have a voice to change the government which is more power than your tenants have to change your policies as you are the dictator in your property world. If you don't like your governments rules on your business you also have the choice to not run your own business... Get another job... or move to another country... Similar to your tenants choice to live elsewhere. It isn't apples and oranges, it is very similar. You just don't like the thought of YOU being the "tenant"

I think it's important to add that Ray has a Constitutional right to his voice in government. His tenants have no such right with regards to his business. They can choose to be his customer or they can choose not to be.

Until you can show some Constitutional right granting government the power to intercede, then you don't have a leg to stand on and the case you're attempting to make is simply nonsensical.

It's called law

We have lots of "law" which is unconstitutional. It doesn't make it ok. Where does government derive the power to intercede with a private citizen on a private business? They don't.

The problem is, people somehow have come to believe that private industry is an extension of the government - existing to serve the people. That's simply not the case.

You don't seem to understand the capacity of private business to do harm or the role of government to mitigate it.

You appear to be a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

According to you, all private businesses do harm...to someone...and the government helps them.

 

[bripat9643]

Why would you fight existing law when government has the authority to do whatever it wants? On what basis would you disagree with the government? After all, it has authority to do whatever it wants.

Existing law is passed by the government, the government is comprised of officials that are elected by the people. We live in a Republic where we vote for people to represent our communities and they are then responsible for making law. Politics101.

Yeah, so what's your point? Do you believe that process means all laws are just? That they are "authorized?" Segregation was passed the same way.

This system means that we have a voice to change and evolve our laws based on the needs and consensus of our communities. You have a very extreme point of view and are upset that things aren't going your way. This is because most people, including our leadership do not share you point of view. You seem to have difficulty understanding this.

You still haven't proved that laws imposed by the mob are just or moral or ethical. Whether I'm "upset" is beside the point. I rightly point out that you're an amoral douche bag who doesn't believe it's possible to have an immoral or unjust law. Might makes right. Whatever the mob wants is moral and just.

Also, you keep missing the point and to be honest i'm getting tired of explaining things to you so lets just call it quits and go our separate ways...

No, you miss the point. You keep quoting the law to me if that's what I was debating.

I'm simply stating what is... Whether something is moral or just is a matter of perspective.

Yeah, right. Whether sticking Jews in gas ovens is moral is "just a matter of perspective." What do you think the Jewish perspective on that is?

You do more than state "what is." You make it clear you have no problem with whatever government does.

Whatever man, stop responding to my posts if you think I'm such an idiot. I obviously struck a chord with something

I will continue to point out that you're an idiot with no morals or ethics.

 

[bripat9643]

Wait a minute.....your claim is that because government can come and take your property, it's really not your property. I strongly disagree because your property is an asset subject to confiscation by more than just government.

If you don't own a home and don't pay your taxes, the government has nothing to confiscate, but they will fine you, charge interest, and eventually lock you up in jail if you continue to ignore their demands.

In short, your property is your property and nobody else's.

That's fine, no need to argue about it anymore, it is a matter of perspective and if you want to view it as your property that is fine as long as you you realize that your ownership is contingent on paying regular fee's (taxes) to the government. If you don't pay then you don't own. If you want to modify it then you need to get a permit from the city. This makes your "ownership" different than that of other goods that you would buy. Real property and businesses involved with commerce act in this way, I say you lease the right to own from the city, state or fed government, you say its your "asset thats subject to confiscation" I think we are talking about the same thing. This is a fact and a simple point. How you interpret that is up to you, My Landlord/Tenant analogy makes sense to me and I won't say you are wrong with yours either.

My point is taxation does not equate ownership is all I'm saying. If that were true, then government owns my horse bet ticket which I would have to pay taxes on if I win. Government owns my stocks and even my IRA. Government owns my car and my lottery tickets.

Taxation is taxation and property is ownership. If I were "leasing" my property, then my lease has an expiration date. My lease would have a buy-out plan after the lease expires. I would have to return my property to the government in the condition in which I purchased it or pay restitution.

Along with property the government owns our currency and commerce which is why you pay to participate. Again it is a matter of perspective... We don't need to go down the rabbit hole again. You get the point

What you mean is that government has made it illegal for anyone to create their own currency. How does the government "own" commerce?

We all know you don't want to "go down the rabbit hole," meaning you don't want to explain your idiot theories.

It means you pay taxes on commerce dumbshit. I shouldn't have to explain everything to your pea brain. I'm done with you

WE don't pay taxes on commerce, moron. That sentence is nonsensical.

 

[Markle]

Bernie's right.

No, actually he is so far to the LEFT that he makes Adolph Hitler look like a capitalist.