“Between 6,000 and 10,000 churches in the U.S. are dying each year”

[Karl Rand]

It clearly and irrefutably shows that Jesus used the word bread as a metaphor for teaching.

He said, beware of the bread of the pharisees and then said to eat his flesh, bread from heaven, teaching from God.

It is not and never was about whatever the hell you do on your knees and put into your mouth in church.

Thats the way the cookie crumbles.

Your error on the body and blood of Christ proceeds from your error that you don't believe that God loved man so much that he was born into this world to testify to the truth.

So of course you can't believe that he manifests his spirit into the host.

It's not your religion. How could you possibly understand it?

"he was born into this world to testify to the truth." More wishful thinking. No proof.

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

And how many works of fiction tell you dragons exist? Not that I suggest we have any proof Jesus didn’t walk the planet. The question is, does the New Testament give a realistic picture of what this person may or may not have preached?
As to the comment. “It’s not your religion, how could you possibly understand it’ I suggest you read up on the last century or so of academic religious studies before imagining you yourself have a clear understanding. You may have a thorough familiarity of the particular theological bent the congregation you belong to follows but that’s not the same thing.
Ephesians Ch 4. V 18 comes to mind although I’m not suggesting V 19 applies to you in particular even though it’s apposite for the terrifying number of ministers of the Christian religion who have abused children over the ages.

 

[ding]

Your error on the body and blood of Christ proceeds from your error that you don't believe that God loved man so much that he was born into this world to testify to the truth.

So of course you can't believe that he manifests his spirit into the host.

It's not your religion. How could you possibly understand it?

"he was born into this world to testify to the truth." More wishful thinking. No proof.

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

And how many works of fiction tell you dragons exist? Not that I suggest we have any proof Jesus didn’t walk the planet. The question is, does the New Testament give a realistic picture of what this person may or may not have preached?
As to the comment. “It’s not your religion, how could you possibly understand it’ I suggest you read up on the last century or so of academic religious studies before imagining you yourself have a clear understanding. You may have a thorough familiarity of the particular theological bent the congregation you belong to follows but that’s not the same thing.
Ephesians Ch 4. V 18 comes to mind although I’m not suggesting V 19 applies to you in particular even though it’s apposite for the terrifying number of ministers of the Christian religion who have abused children over the ages.

There are over 24,000 written manuscripts which chronicle the ministry of Jesus Christ. You just dismissed them because of dragons.

It is not just based upon scripture. It is also based on the practices of early Christians, their beliefs which were passed down orally and the fruit produced by Christianity.

I see you want to focus on the negative actions of men. Have you ever made a full objective analysis?

It is easy for you to picture a Pollyanna outcome for a path not taken but the reality is your righteous indignation only exists because of the path that was taken.

 

[Karl Rand]

There are over 24,000 written manuscripts which chronicle the ministry of Jesus Christ. You just dismissed them because of dragons.
It is not just based upon scripture. It is also based on the practices of early Christians, their beliefs which were passed down orally and the fruit produced by Christianity.
I see you want to focus on the negative actions of men. Have you ever made a full objective analysis?
It is easy for you to picture a Pollyanna outcome for a path not taken but the reality is your righteous indignation only exists because of the path that was taken.

Again, I can only suggest you acquaint yourself with the last century or so of academic biblical studies. You might plunge your toe gently into the water with Bishop John Shelby Spongs’ “The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible’s Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love” and if you survive that experience move on to Jacques Berlinerblaue’s “The Secular Bible: Why Nonbelievers must take Religion seriously” or really dive in at the deep end and read Barbara Thiering’s “Jesus the Man: A new interpretation from the Dead Sea Scrolls”

As to ‘the negative actions of man' have you ever asked yourself why a theology focused on a father who tortured his own son on the cross to redeem humanities ‘sins’ has attracted pedophiles through the ages?
Sins he made possible by supposedly granting our species free will and through his omniscience taking that action in the full knowledge of where it would lead.

 

[ding]

There are over 24,000 written manuscripts which chronicle the ministry of Jesus Christ. You just dismissed them because of dragons.
It is not just based upon scripture. It is also based on the practices of early Christians, their beliefs which were passed down orally and the fruit produced by Christianity.
I see you want to focus on the negative actions of men. Have you ever made a full objective analysis?
It is easy for you to picture a Pollyanna outcome for a path not taken but the reality is your righteous indignation only exists because of the path that was taken.

Again, I can only suggest you acquaint yourself with the last century or so of academic biblical studies. You might plunge your toe gently into the water with Bishop John Shelby Spongs’ “The Sins of Scripture: Exposing the Bible’s Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love” and if you survive that experience move on to Jacques Berlinerblaue’s “The Secular Bible: Why Nonbelievers must take Religion seriously” or really dive in at the deep end and read Barbara Thiering’s “Jesus the Man: A new interpretation from the Dead Sea Scrolls”

As to ‘the negative actions of man' have you ever asked yourself why a theology focused on a father who tortured his own son on the cross to redeem humanities ‘sins’ has attracted pedophiles through the ages?
Sins he made possible by supposedly granting our species free will and through his omniscience taking that action in the full knowledge of where it would lead.

At the end of the day, the best evidence I have are my own personal experiences. My personal relationship with Jesus and how it has changed my life and the lives of those I love. I also have the testimony of others.

So in addition to scripture, the manuscripts, tradition and the good fruits produced by Christianity, ultimately it is my testing it that convinced me. Everything is connected. There are no accidents. Everything happens for a reason. And everything is used for our good, if we let it. We are all being pruned. Some see it, some don't. Some progress because of it. Some don't. But make no mistake, we are all getting cropped one way or another.

 

[Karl Rand]

At the end of the day, the best evidence I have are my own personal experiences. My personal relationship with Jesus and how it has changed my life and the lives of those I love. I also have the testimony of others.

So in addition to scripture, the manuscripts, tradition and the good fruits produced by Christianity, ultimately it is my testing it that convinced me. Everything is connected. There are no accidents. Everything happens for a reason. And everything is used for our good, if we let it. We are all being pruned. Some see it, some don't. Some progress because of it. Some don't. But make no mistake, we are all getting cropped for our own good.

Although I’m sure that’s very comforting for you I don’t share your delusion.

 

[ding]

At the end of the day, the best evidence I have are my own personal experiences. My personal relationship with Jesus and how it has changed my life and the lives of those I love. I also have the testimony of others.

So in addition to scripture, the manuscripts, tradition and the good fruits produced by Christianity, ultimately it is my testing it that convinced me. Everything is connected. There are no accidents. Everything happens for a reason. And everything is used for our good, if we let it. We are all being pruned. Some see it, some don't. Some progress because of it. Some don't. But make no mistake, we are all getting cropped for our own good.

Although I’m sure that’s all very comforting for you but I don’t share your delusion.

And yet believing in God and seeing meaning in life is a functional advantage. I don't think there is any delusion about that, is there?

I mean after all you were the one who said religion was Darwinian and that's why it existed, right?

The problem with your analysis is that you never investigated why religion offers a functional advantage.

 

[ding]

As to ‘the negative actions of man' have you ever asked yourself why a theology focused on a father who tortured his own son on the cross to redeem humanities ‘sins’ has attracted pedophiles through the ages?

First of all we don’t see God being born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer death for the sins of mankind to reconcile justice with mercy as a cruel thing. It was done for love. I can see how someone who rejected Christianity would see it that way though. But I can assure you that every Christian who is not an apostate like yourself disagrees with you.

Secondly are you sure you want to get into the discussion of the failure of priests to uphold their vows? I’m pretty sure you won’t like what you will discover but I am happy to enlighten you.

 

[ding]

Sins he made possible by supposedly granting our species free will and through his omniscience taking that action in the full knowledge of where it would lead.

Are you saying that you would have rather lived a life without knowledge of good and evil?

Do you believe that is even possible?

Do you believe that nothing good can come from bad?

 

[sparky]

More biblical bullsh*t from sorts that will never get it....

~S~

 

[ding]

More biblical bullsh*t from sorts that will never get it....

~S~

Can you be more specific?

 

[Taz]

It clearly and irrefutably shows that Jesus used the word bread as a metaphor for teaching.

He said, beware of the bread of the pharisees and then said to eat his flesh, bread from heaven, teaching from God.

It is not and never was about whatever the hell you do on your knees and put into your mouth in church.

Thats the way the cookie crumbles.

Your error on the body and blood of Christ proceeds from your error that you don't believe that God loved man so much that he was born into this world to testify to the truth.

So of course you can't believe that he manifests his spirit into the host.

It's not your religion. How could you possibly understand it?

"he was born into this world to testify to the truth." More wishful thinking. No proof.

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

 

[Lysistrata]

Why would anyone want to go and listen to an idiot who purports to speak for a Supreme Being? Nobody actually knows anything about any Supreme Being. Not jeffress nor graham nor focus on the family.

Remember, 2000 years ago, there were humans living all over this earth, on every continent but the Poles. There has never been any clear message from any Supreme Being about anything. What did the people in China, Nepal, the Indian subcontinent, Native Americans, people on the African continent get?

These "discussions" go south so fast.

 

[ding]

Your error on the body and blood of Christ proceeds from your error that you don't believe that God loved man so much that he was born into this world to testify to the truth.

So of course you can't believe that he manifests his spirit into the host.

It's not your religion. How could you possibly understand it?

"he was born into this world to testify to the truth." More wishful thinking. No proof.

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

 

[Michelle420]

Is this good or bad?


Today, nearly four in ten (39%) young adults (ages 18-29) are religiously unaffiliated—three times the unaffiliated rate (13%) among seniors (ages 65 and older). While previous generations were also more likely to be religiously unaffiliated in their twenties, young adults today are nearly four times as likely as young adults a generation ago to identify as religiously unaffiliated. In 1986, for example, only 10% of young adults claimed no religious affiliation.


And it’s even worse in Europe where many empty churches are being converted to Muslim mosques.


At one time, churches provided a loci of social belonging as much as a religious base. Now, as many young people are losing the agenda of close, personal, face-to-face relatonships, such social gatherings no longer meet their personal goals.


What do you think?


More of this @ "Between 6,000 and 10,000 churches in the U.S. are dying each year" - and that means that over 100 will die this week

Sad but understandable.

 

[hobelim]

"he was born into this world to testify to the truth." More wishful thinking. No proof.

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

 

[ding]

Not that you would accept because there is no proof you would accept.

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

 

[hobelim]

I only accept real proof, not your made up kind.

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

 

[ding]

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

 

[ding]

The only proof we have of historical events are written manuscripts. There are over 24,000 of those that recorded the ministry of Jesus.

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

1 Corinthians 11

Correcting an Abuse of the Lord’s Supper
17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

And when I come I will give further directions.

 

[hobelim]

So you’re saying that Jesus actually walked on water, turned water into wine, ... .

Yep.

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

And that has nothing to do with this discussion.

You do realize that the early Christians who believed that the bread and wine were the body and blood of Christ had no scripture to read, right?

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

I don’t think you understand what it means that the early Christians had no scripture to inform their belief that Christ would manifest himself into the bread and wine.

Obviously, they did not have that belief if they knew that failure to discern the Body resulted in a curse.


The command to eat his flesh and drink his blood is a test. Just like the when the law was first given, and just like when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness.

Your response to it results in either a blessing or a curse, life or death.

Obviously you have failed to discern the body.

Not to worry! You can always pray for a do over or go to confession and then to show God just how sorry you are for your sins you can get down on your knees and worship a lifeless cracker.