Bible Questions

[Gracie]

Ok...I have made a decision and I think those who have been so kind in assisting me deserve an explanation the best I can give. It may not make sense...then again, maybe it will. And I have a request as well. I still will need help from time to time if I think of something or read or hear something and I am not sure of an answer. I can google, yes. But I can ask here, too. However, that will come in time...and no clear cut answer of WHEN or even IF.

I have decided to not read the bible any further. The more I read, the more the relationship with the childlike awe and friendliness and trust and comfort becomes threatented. I am familiar with some of the books of the bible, but I have never read it from front to back...nor do I plan to.

My relationship with God has always been between He and I. I chat with Him in my garden..or under the stars. I feel Him in everything I touch...my crystals (He made them so beautiful), His birds that sing to me, His bugs that come visit me, the trees and leaves whispering to me. I have always just talked to Him as I talk to you, to my friends, to people I am comfortable around. Just people. I never understood the phrase "I am a God fearing woman/man" because I never feared Him. I love Him and I know He loves me. Reading the bible will change all that. I will become more "aware" of what He is, what He can do, how I should be more humble perhaps or wrongs I have committed, etc. In short....the bible is the apple. I want to stay the innocent child in chatting with the God I love...not read things that will scare me or turn me away from how I always have been with Him. Nothing could do that, but once you see something...you can't UNsee it, if you know what I mean. So taking another bite out of that apple...I will become like Adam and Eve and the bible to me is that apple tree.

With that said..I DO want to read portions of it that show His compassion and mercy and love for His children. Us. Me. What gospels would you recommend for me to read? Proverbs? I like that one...full of wisdom and common sense. But what others are there I am not aware of?

 

[Foxfyre]

Ok...I have made a decision and I think those who have been so kind in assisting me deserve an explanation the best I can give. It may not make sense...then again, maybe it will. And I have a request as well. I still will need help from time to time if I think of something or read or hear something and I am not sure of an answer. I can google, yes. But I can ask here, too. However, that will come in time...and no clear cut answer of WHEN or even IF.

I have decided to not read the bible any further. The more I read, the more the relationship with the childlike awe and friendliness and trust and comfort becomes threatented. I am familiar with some of the books of the bible, but I have never read it from front to back...nor do I plan to.

My relationship with God has always been between He and I. I chat with Him in my garden..or under the stars. I feel Him in everything I touch...my crystals (He made them so beautiful), His birds that sing to me, His bugs that come visit me, the trees and leaves whispering to me. I have always just talked to Him as I talk to you, to my friends, to people I am comfortable around. Just people. I never understood the phrase "I am a God fearing woman/man" because I never feared Him. I love Him and I know He loves me. Reading the bible will change all that. I will become more "aware" of what He is, what He can do, how I should be more humble perhaps or wrongs I have committed, etc. In short....the bible is the apple. I want to stay the innocent child in chatting with the God I love...not read things that will scare me or turn me away from how I always have been with Him. Nothing could do that, but once you see something...you can't UNsee it, if you know what I mean. So taking another bite out of that apple...I will become like Adam and Eve and the bible to me is that apple tree.

With that said..I DO want to read portions of it that show His compassion and mercy and love for His children. Us. Me. What gospels would you recommend for me to read? Proverbs? I like that one...full of wisdom and common sense. But what others are there I am not aware of?

Grace follow your instincts on this one. A competent Bible study with a competent teacher can get you through all of the Bible without too much trauma if we just understand that we are looking through the eyes of a people up to four thousand years ago and their culture and understanding was very different from our own. If you try to read the Bible through 21st Century eyes and relate it to our culture, you'll get most of it wrong most of the time.

But for your private devotionals, read First Peter. The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John will give you glimpses into the thoughts and perceptions of the Man called Jesus. The Letters we know were written by Paul give you insight into concepts that went into the early Church. But if you choose to skip the Bible for now--and if it has a negative effect on you, that is probably what you should do.

For a starting reader outside of the Bible, I would strongly recommend a little book called Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. You can get a copy through Amazon.com or probably your local library or bookstore will have it. You won't find it the least bit scary.

 

[koshergrl]

Soooo...she is no longer going to read the bible because it challenges her misconception of who God is? Is that what I'm reading? She chooses to go with the imaginary God she has going in her head, instead of getting to know the real God better via the Word, as he instructs we are to do?

 

[Gracie]

koshergirl....who are you to judge my decision? EVERYBODY chooses to go with what tickles their own ear. Including you and your own ears. So save your indignant opinions on my own choice.

 

[Gracie]

Thanks Foxfyre. I will skip ahead and read Peter. Then the rest, as you suggest. Thanks for the input.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh I thought you were just hanging it up. You aren't, there's nothing wrong with moving around in the book...it's the way most people raised in the church learn the contents. It isn't reading it all as one story..it's working on one story at a time...or even one verse.

 

[Gracie]

God is God to me. He always will be. I want to keep His and my relationship the way it has been for 60 years. That is all. I don't want to become afraid of Him. I never have been and don't want to start now at this late stage. My chat under the stars with Him tonight during my prayers for an online friend who is having a rough go with cancer of the throat...I prayed to Him...and then I told Him I was afraid His and my relationship would change if I ate too many apples. In my heart...I knew and felt Him say "it's ok. Move around the book as you feel led" and I was at peace with my decision..and His reaction to it.

I know it sounds crazy. But it really isn't to me.

 

[Foxfyre]

Thanks Foxfyre. I will skip ahead and read Peter. Then the rest, as you suggest. Thanks for the input.

Just keep in mind that all the Scriptures are deeply nuanced, and while the message is often clear at face value, there are always deeper meanings. I do believe the Holy Spirit--that spirit of God that Jesus left with us--will help us understand the deeper and more pure meanings. Also be conscious that Peter (and all the others of the New Testament) lived more than 2000 years ago in a very different culture than our own. And the whole of the text relates to the world as they understood it and existed in it.

That does not mean it is irrelevent for our times. But we usually need to pull the universal truths from it rather than take it so literally.

Once you begin to understand the man, Jesus, God incarnate, who lived and walked among the people of that time, and see Him and his teaching through the eyes of those who knew him, traveled with him, sat at his feet and learned from him. . . to understand how much He loves us, how gently he taught and nurthered and cared, and what he did for us, and .then. . . .

. . . then the Old Testament begins to make more sense and it becomes easier to understand a people in an even earlier culture who had very different perceptions about God and what he demanded and what he had done.

I do think, however, that ultimately we do need a grounding in the Old Testament in order to understand much of the New Testament. They are not two separate stories, but a continuation of the story of the people of God and how their understanding and perceptions have changed through the millenia.

 

[Foxfyre]

I once undertook an extensive Seminary level Bible study that insisted that we start with the New Testatment. That made no sense to me. Why not start at the beginning?

But now I see the wisdom in that. Unless you understand where the story is going, and see the full majesty, compassion, and gentle counsel of the living God, then the earlier more ancient texts can indeed be quite scary and off putting as they were written by a people who obeyed the living God, but had a very different perception about what he was all about. Different times. A different prism through which to view their realities.

 

[Avatar4321]

Soooo...she is no longer going to read the bible because it challenges her misconception of who God is? Is that what I'm reading? She chooses to go with the imaginary God she has going in her head, instead of getting to know the real God better via the Word, as he instructs we are to do?

Sadly, I think there are alot of Christians with that mindset. They choose to not read the Bible because it challenges misconceptions they might have about God.

Then there are others who read the Bible and dont bother applying any of it to their lives. What's the point of knowing the entire Bible, even if you have it memorized, if you dont live the principles? Loving one another, for one.

How can we expect nonbelievers to read the scriptures when there are many Christians who don't for whatever reason?

 

[Avatar4321]

I once undertook an extensive Seminary level Bible study that insisted that we start with the New Testatment. That made no sense to me. Why not start at the beginning?

But now I see the wisdom in that. Unless you understand where the story is going, and see the full majesty, compassion, and gentle counsel of the living God, then the earlier more ancient texts can indeed be quite scary and off putting as they were written by a people who obeyed the living God, but had a very different perception about what he was all about. Different times. A different prism through which to view their realities.

When you are trying to teach of Christ, it doesn't hurt to start with Him

 

[Foxfyre]

Soooo...she is no longer going to read the bible because it challenges her misconception of who God is? Is that what I'm reading? She chooses to go with the imaginary God she has going in her head, instead of getting to know the real God better via the Word, as he instructs we are to do?

Sadly, I think there are alot of Christians with that mindset. They choose to not read the Bible because it challenges misconceptions they might have about God.

Then there are others who read the Bible and dont bother applying any of it to their lives. What's the point of knowing the entire Bible, even if you have it memorized, if you dont live the principles? Loving one another, for one.

How can we expect nonbelievers to read the scriptures when there are many Christians who don't for whatever reason?

But do keep in mind that Grace was not wanting to give up reading the Bible. But because of the particular passages she had started with, without having any grounding in a good Bible study, it was bothering her more than it was instructing her. That is something that is quite honest and real and important for us who grew up with the Bible to be aware of.

We weren't started out in the Bible in the most bloody, scary, angry, and imcomprehensible parts. We started out with edited versions of Adam and Eve, Noah and the flood, Joseph and his coat of many colors, Moses parting the Red Sea, David and Goliath, Daniel in the Lion's Den. We learned them in a sanitized and kid friendly fashion and came to love them before we had to know about the blood and gore and some really intense uglies that go along with some of those stories. And because we were taught to love the stories, we were not affected so negatively by the more cruel and hard portions of the text.

We have to understand that without that conditioning, being brought up in God's love, it may not be so obvious to the novice just starting out on his or her own who starts reading the Bible without any benefit of a teacher.

 

[BreezeWood]

Gracie: I want to stay the innocent child in chatting with the God I love...not read things that will scare me or turn me away from how I always have been with Him. Nothing could do that, but once you see something...you can't UNsee it, if you know what I mean. So taking another bite out of that apple...I will become like Adam and Eve and the bible to me is that apple tree.

Sadly, I think there are alot of Christians with that mindset. They choose to not read the Bible because it challenges misconceptions they might have about God.

Then there are others who read the Bible and dont bother applying any of it to their lives. What's the point of knowing the entire Bible, even if you have it memorized, if you dont live the principles? Loving one another, for one.

How can we expect nonbelievers to read the scriptures when there are many Christians who don't for whatever reason?

I'm with Gracie, and though she did not say it perhaps we both interpret the Garden as the same as reading the Bible but better because the Garden is not just the work of God but in my opinion is the Physical Presence and Proof of God's existence.



I will become like Adam and Eve and the bible to me is that apple tree.

my same exact sentiment - though including the words of God, the Bible is flawed by man.

“Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”

for some and those who may interpret the Garden - "and let them have in subjection" has absolutely no meaning for a work of God and to read further is not following the Commandment of Remission to the Everlasting from God but unchanged as the same path taken away from the Everlasting by Adam and Eve.


Christians should have an open mind to Change the Bible as is the Commandment of Remission - - if nothing else Bibleist must reconsole that the Bible is split between two religions diametrically, Judaism - Christianity and this can not be.

 

[koshergrl]

Soooo...she is no longer going to read the bible because it challenges her misconception of who God is? Is that what I'm reading? She chooses to go with the imaginary God she has going in her head, instead of getting to know the real God better via the Word, as he instructs we are to do?

Sadly, I think there are alot of Christians with that mindset. They choose to not read the Bible because it challenges misconceptions they might have about God.

Then there are others who read the Bible and dont bother applying any of it to their lives. What's the point of knowing the entire Bible, even if you have it memorized, if you dont live the principles? Loving one another, for one.

How can we expect nonbelievers to read the scriptures when there are many Christians who don't for whatever reason?

But do keep in mind that Grace was not wanting to give up reading the Bible. But because of the particular passages she had started with, without having any grounding in a good Bible study, it was bothering her more than it was instructing her. That is something that is quite honest and real and important for us who grew up with the Bible to be aware of.

We weren't started out in the Bible in the most bloody, scary, angry, and imcomprehensible parts. We started out with edited versions of Adam and Eve, Noah and the flood, Joseph and his coat of many colors, Moses parting the Red Sea, David and Goliath, Daniel in the Lion's Den. We learned them in a sanitized and kid friendly fashion and came to love them before we had to know about the blood and gore and some really intense uglies that go along with some of those stories. And because we were taught to love the stories, we were not affected so negatively by the more cruel and hard portions of the text.

We have to understand that without that conditioning, being brought up in God's love, it may not be so obvious to the novice just starting out on his or her own who starts reading the Bible without any benefit of a teacher.

Yeah Genesis is fairly intense and hard to absorb...our pre-teens have one memory verse a week, coupled with some background info and usually some scriptural reading from elsewhere in the bible as well.

The memory verse is usually 1-3 sentences long, and the whole lesson is built around it. We look at how it can be applied, and we look at supporting scripture as we contemplate it.

Reading the bible from front to back is certainly a noble endeavor, and it has it's own rewards but it isn't necessarily the best way to familiarize oneself with the meat of the bible. It gives you a different perspective and allows a little more "flow" in one's mind...but the real strength of the bible is in how it holds up to intense scrutiny on a very small scale....So there are the "stories" and the timeline which fall together when you read the whole thing...but the essence of the bible is in the way you can take one verse, from anywhere in the book (open it and let your finger fall) and apply it to your own life, and the world...and how you can ALWAYS find supporting scripture for the concept.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Gracie, if you accept your gift of salvation, that Christ died for on the cross, there aren't enough apples on earth to turn your Father away from His little girl. Christ already ate your apples, including ones you haven't even picked yet, so that God could look at you and see His perfect child.
Search for Jesus Christ, not an acceptable premise of a God head, and you'll find the answer to any questions you have.
If you read nothing else in the Bible, read John, Matthew, Luke, and Mark. They will introduce you to the one that loved you enough to stretch out His arms and die in your place. He's the one you want to find and when you do, you'll find your Abba.
{{{{Gracie}}}}

 

[Foxfyre]

Sadly, I think there are alot of Christians with that mindset. They choose to not read the Bible because it challenges misconceptions they might have about God.

Then there are others who read the Bible and dont bother applying any of it to their lives. What's the point of knowing the entire Bible, even if you have it memorized, if you dont live the principles? Loving one another, for one.

How can we expect nonbelievers to read the scriptures when there are many Christians who don't for whatever reason?

But do keep in mind that Grace was not wanting to give up reading the Bible. But because of the particular passages she had started with, without having any grounding in a good Bible study, it was bothering her more than it was instructing her. That is something that is quite honest and real and important for us who grew up with the Bible to be aware of.

We weren't started out in the Bible in the most bloody, scary, angry, and imcomprehensible parts. We started out with edited versions of Adam and Eve, Noah and the flood, Joseph and his coat of many colors, Moses parting the Red Sea, David and Goliath, Daniel in the Lion's Den. We learned them in a sanitized and kid friendly fashion and came to love them before we had to know about the blood and gore and some really intense uglies that go along with some of those stories. And because we were taught to love the stories, we were not affected so negatively by the more cruel and hard portions of the text.

We have to understand that without that conditioning, being brought up in God's love, it may not be so obvious to the novice just starting out on his or her own who starts reading the Bible without any benefit of a teacher.

Yeah Genesis is fairly intense and hard to absorb...our pre-teens have one memory verse a week, coupled with some background info and usually some scriptural reading from elsewhere in the bible as well.

The memory verse is usually 1-3 sentences long, and the whole lesson is built around it. We look at how it can be applied, and we look at supporting scripture as we contemplate it.

Reading the bible from front to back is certainly a noble endeavor, and it has it's own rewards but it isn't necessarily the best way to familiarize oneself with the meat of the bible. It gives you a different perspective and allows a little more "flow" in one's mind...but the real strength of the bible is in how it holds up to intense scrutiny on a very small scale....So there are the "stories" and the timeline which fall together when you read the whole thing...but the essence of the bible is in the way you can take one verse, from anywhere in the book (open it and let your finger fall) and apply it to your own life, and the world...and how you can ALWAYS find supporting scripture for the concept.

Well said. Because the Bible itself is not in chronological order from front to back, but has rather been compiled in categorical sections without a whole lot of consideration for time frame, I agree that a good Bible Study for beginners won't start with Genesis 1 and just go through the whole thing verse by verse as it is edited together.

It is only later, after a solid grounding the concepts and origins of the scriptures, and after familiarizing oneself with the characters and the best stories of the Bible, that you can do a whole read through without being frustrated and/or discouraged and/or disgusted or frightened by the more ugly portions included, however necessary they might be to understand the whole history.

I do personal devotions as you suggest--selecting a random passage and reflecting on it. But 'proof texting' by either Christians or anti-religionists is not good scholarship. To pluck a single verse or passage from the whole and hold it up as 'irrefutable evidence' to commend or accuse people of faith is probably going to seriously misrepresent what that passage was all about.

 

[Foxfyre]

I once undertook an extensive Seminary level Bible study that insisted that we start with the New Testatment. That made no sense to me. Why not start at the beginning?

But now I see the wisdom in that. Unless you understand where the story is going, and see the full majesty, compassion, and gentle counsel of the living God, then the earlier more ancient texts can indeed be quite scary and off putting as they were written by a people who obeyed the living God, but had a very different perception about what he was all about. Different times. A different prism through which to view their realities.

When you are trying to teach of Christ, it doesn't hurt to start with Him

No argument there. But the living Christ is no scary figure and this topic is on Bible reading and study. My point is that you don't want to start off a novice Bible student with scriptures that are going to turn him or her off learning about it so that he/she never gets to the really good stuff and can know that it isn't all that scary.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Since when does anyone have to believe the bible in order to quote it?

You don't need anyone else's help to mock your beliefs since you are doing such a great job of it all by yourself with your crude language.

Care to point out where I said you can't quote the Bible? What I said, and maintain, is that your doing so amounts to mocking, just like it was when Satan did it. I notice you didn't deny it, you just resorted to straw man arguments.

You have no clue what a straw man argument actually is which explains why you fling it around whenever you are on the defensive. As far as quoting the bible is concerned that is not mocking. Instead it is pointing out your hypocrisy where you claim to be a Christian but ignore the teachings of your Lord and Savior. Your anger management issues and lack of knowledge about what you profess to believe are apparent to everyone who is reading this thread.

 

[koshergrl]

I once undertook an extensive Seminary level Bible study that insisted that we start with the New Testatment. That made no sense to me. Why not start at the beginning?

But now I see the wisdom in that. Unless you understand where the story is going, and see the full majesty, compassion, and gentle counsel of the living God, then the earlier more ancient texts can indeed be quite scary and off putting as they were written by a people who obeyed the living God, but had a very different perception about what he was all about. Different times. A different prism through which to view their realities.

When you are trying to teach of Christ, it doesn't hurt to start with Him

No argument there. But the living Christ is no scary figure and this topic is on Bible reading and study. My point is that you don't want to start off a novice Bible student with scriptures that are going to turn him or her off learning about it so that he/she never gets to the really good stuff and can know that it isn't all that scary.

I like to go for the cool stories...the ones that rivet and can lead into discussion of the more beefy parts of the bible. For example, the story of David & Goliath...what a fab story, fascinating, and with historical merit...but then provides so many inroads into the discussion of salvation and faith and forgiveness....

Or the story of Ruth...wow....

 

[koshergrl]

So foxy, here's a question...when somebody says they want to believe but just can't bring themselves to do it, how do you advise them?