Bible Questions

[Quantum Windbag]

James 3:9-13

"Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."


1st Peter 1:14-16

"As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."


1st Thessalonians 5:21-22

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Abstain from all appearance of evil."


Proverbs 10:31-31

"The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom: but the froward tongue shall be cut out.
The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness."


Matthew 12:35-36

"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."


Matthew 15:11
"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."


Colossians 3:8

"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."


Ephesians 4:29-30

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."


1st Corinthians 10:31-33

"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Rule of thumb, atheist only quote from the Bible to prove how hypocritical they are. The explanation of this is that they think quoting from a book they do not believe in somehow short circuits the common sense of people who actually believe what the Bible says.

They, of course, are wrong.

Ironic!

Do you think pretty colors are an argument?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Substantiation?

So if Adam and Eve were mere "2 year old" babies then why did your "loving" God condemn them as adults to eternal damnation?

Substantiate your assertion that they were condemned to damnation.

You alleged that there was a "time limit" and invented ridiculous aspects that were never in Genesis. Too bad you have no ability to support your own claims while hypocritically demanding that others must do so. When you are capable of behaving like an adult you can expect to be treated like one. Have a nice day.

I alleged nothing. I pointed out that your assertion that knowledge, in and of itself, is viewed as evil, is a flat out misrepresentation of what the Bible says. You countered that by telling me that God condemned Adam and Eve to damnation for not following your interpretation that Adam and Even weren't supposed to ever understand anything.

Prove that God condemned Adam and Eve to damnation.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Okay, since it has been brought up, QW and DT, Jesus NEVER insulted somebody by calling him names for what he did or did not believe or for being wrong or for sinning. He reserved his negative adjectives for those who preached rules and laws and presumed to accuse, judge, and condemn others when they themselves failed to understand and follow the intent of the Law. In other words he criticized those who would dishonestly harm others physically, emotionally, or materially in the name of God.

In fact in Matthew 5, in what we have dubbed 'The Sermon on the Mount" he ordered much caution in accusing and criticizing our fellow humans:

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.​

Now as with much of the scriptures, we don't have to take that 100% literally with our 21st Century understanding, but the intended message is pretty clear. It is a bad and dangerous thing to presume such superiority over another person and we sin when we do so.

In truth the 'sermon' was probably not a single sermon but rather an illustration of the kind of setting Jesus used in his ministry and was a collection of 'pericopes' (short, easy to understand sayings) that the ancient rabbis used in their teachings and were remembered and pulled together for the compiled manuscripts that would become the four Gospels of the New Testament.

I do not call people names for what they believe either, I call out people who try to dictate my behavior based on their interpretation of the Bible, especially when they also make it clear they do not believe it themselves. I also reject the notion that rules that I should treat the people who mock God and my belief in Him with respect just because people kind find verses about me treating believers with respect.

Care to substantiate this mocking of your beliefs?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Substantiate your assertion that they were condemned to damnation.

You alleged that there was a "time limit" and invented ridiculous aspects that were never in Genesis. Too bad you have no ability to support your own claims while hypocritically demanding that others must do so. When you are capable of behaving like an adult you can expect to be treated like one. Have a nice day.

I alleged nothing. I pointed out that your assertion that knowledge, in and of itself, is viewed as evil, is a flat out misrepresentation of what the Bible says. You countered that by telling me that God condemned Adam and Eve to damnation for not following your interpretation that Adam and Even weren't supposed to ever understand anything.

Prove that God condemned Adam and Eve to damnation.

First you have to prove that your deity exists.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It was QW that made the egregious claim that Jesus insulted people. He was using Jesus as a shield to cover his own objectionable behavior.

I was dong no such thing, you whiny little bitch. I was pointing out that your insistence that insulting people is un Christian is something only a drooling idiot would claim. You then tried to use Bible verses, completely out of context, to prove me wrong.

Exactly.

Except that she is wrong, and you, being ignorant, don't know enough about the Bible to point out why she is wrong. You do, however, find it incredibly convenient to agree with her, so, even if you did know, you wouldn't point out she is wrong.

Once again you are correct.

What makes her correct? Is it the fact that her misinterpretation of the verse makes it incredibly convenient for you to try and dictate to believers?

Would it be that your fellow Christians shared your rationality, temperament and insight.

I can see why you would say that, since it would allow you to insult them, their beliefs, and ignore them as you impose your beliefs on the everyone.

Guess what, there are quite a few of us that refuse to let you tell us how to live.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, since it has been brought up, QW and DT, Jesus NEVER insulted somebody by calling him names for what he did or did not believe or for being wrong or for sinning.

It was QW that made the egregious claim that Jesus insulted people. He was using Jesus as a shield to cover his own objectionable behavior.



Exactly.



Once again you are correct.

In truth the 'sermon' was probably not a single sermon but rather an illustration of the kind of setting Jesus used in his ministry and was a collection of 'pericopes' (short, easy to understand sayings) that the ancient rabbis used in their teachings and were remembered and pulled together for the compiled manuscripts that would become the four Gospels of the New Testament.

Would it be that your fellow Christians shared your rationality, temperament and insight.

Most do actually. But most Christians don't get drawn into these kinds of discussions.

For reasons way too complicated and boring to go into here, I have probably been blessed with more intensive Bible study, historical research, and theological perspective than the average Christian, and that allows me to speak with a bit of authority--not to be confused with any superiority. I would be the first to say that there is more that I don't know than what I know, and I never assume that I've got it all figured out after decades of trying.

Sorry, you are still wrong, most of us understand that faith is actually worth living for.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You alleged that there was a "time limit" and invented ridiculous aspects that were never in Genesis. Too bad you have no ability to support your own claims while hypocritically demanding that others must do so. When you are capable of behaving like an adult you can expect to be treated like one. Have a nice day.

I alleged nothing. I pointed out that your assertion that knowledge, in and of itself, is viewed as evil, is a flat out misrepresentation of what the Bible says. You countered that by telling me that God condemned Adam and Eve to damnation for not following your interpretation that Adam and Even weren't supposed to ever understand anything.

Prove that God condemned Adam and Eve to damnation.

First you have to prove that your deity exists.

Why do I have to prove that? Can you show me any place in this argument where I asserted that He exist to make a point, or even just as an aside? In fact, the first person in this discussion to mention my God was you when you asserted that He condemned Adam and Eve for eternity.

Once again, that puts the burden on you, asswipe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, since it has been brought up, QW and DT, Jesus NEVER insulted somebody by calling him names for what he did or did not believe or for being wrong or for sinning. He reserved his negative adjectives for those who preached rules and laws and presumed to accuse, judge, and condemn others when they themselves failed to understand and follow the intent of the Law. In other words he criticized those who would dishonestly harm others physically, emotionally, or materially in the name of God.

In fact in Matthew 5, in what we have dubbed 'The Sermon on the Mount" he ordered much caution in accusing and criticizing our fellow humans:

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.​

Now as with much of the scriptures, we don't have to take that 100% literally with our 21st Century understanding, but the intended message is pretty clear. It is a bad and dangerous thing to presume such superiority over another person and we sin when we do so.

In truth the 'sermon' was probably not a single sermon but rather an illustration of the kind of setting Jesus used in his ministry and was a collection of 'pericopes' (short, easy to understand sayings) that the ancient rabbis used in their teachings and were remembered and pulled together for the compiled manuscripts that would become the four Gospels of the New Testament.

I do not call people names for what they believe either, I call out people who try to dictate my behavior based on their interpretation of the Bible, especially when they also make it clear they do not believe it themselves. I also reject the notion that rules that I should treat the people who mock God and my belief in Him with respect just because people kind find verses about me treating believers with respect.

Care to substantiate this mocking of your beliefs?

You claim to be better than me because you are above insults. You then quote from the Bible you don't believe in to make your point.

Tell me something, how the fuck is that not mocking my beliefs?

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Jeremiah: There is a book you might appreciate called SAVING PARADISE by two authors (Rebecca Parker?) which presents both the literal history and figurative meaning of the Garden of Paradise in relation to Sumerian culture and early christian history that taught about brotherly love and paradise on earth before the crusades turned to antichrist.

If you cannot reconcile the two, both the literal history and the figurative interpretation, then I suggest sticking with the figurative meaning of Christ and heaven on earth as Restorative Justice, and then analyzing political and cultural history and stages in THAT context. as long as you seek to establish truth and restore good faith relations then any issue of conflict can be resolved in that spirit so there is no need to fear division over it.

humanity is basically going through a spiritual process of learning by experience, moving from war and tribal conflict as in the OT to harmony and peace restored as in the NT, so all the ups and downs in history are converging to a happy ending when we learn our lessons and share responsibility for teaching and improving society. it's all good in the end, and the more we have faith in equal justice and mercy for all, which salvation in christ jesus represents for all humanity, we can establish that together while overcoming conflicts. take care and much wisdom and peace to you as you multiply these blessings for all to receive.

Another question!!!

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Does this mean Eden was in heaven? If it was so dangerous for Adam and Eve to have knowlege of good and evil, they were then no longer "pure" of spirit as God originally intended? Did I make sense??

Side question: God did not name Adam and Eve. It doesn't say he named them, so I guess Adam chose that name for himself, then chose Eve's name as well?

Eden was on Earth, probably in present day Iraq.

Yes, Adam did name Eve, you just have not got that far yet.

I don't believe so although it is referred to as the cradle of civilization. I believe Eden is in Ethiopia. I also believe the first man and woman were black. I am white - I'm going by what I have studied and it leads me to believe that Iraq is not where Eden was located. Think about the tropical environment of Ethiopia, the diversity of animal life, birds of the air, etc, Ethiopia is rich diversity with every animal, creature one can imagine and Adam named them all. It has to be Ethiopia. imo. - Jeremiah note* The name Adam means 1st born son. Adam was the 1st born so his name is self evident. His partner, Eve, is the mother of future generations so her name is also self - evident. If you go to the book of Jeremiah you'll note in the first chapter God said he had named Jeremiah in his mothers womb. Now go look up what the name Jeremiah means. God identifies us by the name or the meaning of the name. Check out Habbukuk - one who clings to God - it is the theme throughout the Bible - names... very important. - Jeremiah

 

[koshergrl]

yeah, that bible is worthless.

That's why the great writers, poets, lyricists laud it, and that's why archaeologists and historians treat it with reverence.

Cuz it's just dumb.

 

[Avatar4321]

So if Adam and Eve were mere "2 year old" babies then why did your "loving" God condemn them as adults to eternal damnation?

where on earth did you reach that ridiculous conclusion? God didn't condemn them to anything. Quite the opposite. He provided a way for their Redemption. One they took advantage of. You can recieve the same gift they did. In fact, through Jesus Christ you are already ensured the blessing of Immortality through the resurrection of the dead, for which we celebrate this day.

Eternal Life can be yours as well.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I do not call people names for what they believe either, I call out people who try to dictate my behavior based on their interpretation of the Bible, especially when they also make it clear they do not believe it themselves. I also reject the notion that rules that I should treat the people who mock God and my belief in Him with respect just because people kind find verses about me treating believers with respect.

Care to substantiate this mocking of your beliefs?

You claim to be better than me because you are above insults.

Care to provide a link to substantiate that idiotic allegation?

You then quote from the Bible you don't believe in to make your point.

Since when does anyone have to believe the bible in order to quote it?

Tell me something, how the fuck is that not mocking my beliefs?

You don't need anyone else's help to mock your beliefs since you are doing such a great job of it all by yourself with your crude language.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Since when does anyone have to believe the bible in order to quote it?

You don't need anyone else's help to mock your beliefs since you are doing such a great job of it all by yourself with your crude language.

Care to point out where I said you can't quote the Bible? What I said, and maintain, is that your doing so amounts to mocking, just like it was when Satan did it. I notice you didn't deny it, you just resorted to straw man arguments.

 

[Foxfyre]

QW, you may believe you haven't been personally insulting and are only defending yourself and God, but to at least some of us here it sounds an awfully lot like personal insults. You aren't the only one guilty of that of course.

But do you really think you honor God with such a defense? That you persuade anyone of anything other than that Christians are thin skinned types with short fuses? That kind of defense doesn't make Christianity look attractive to me. I can imagine how it looks to somebody who isn't a Christian in the first place.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QW, you may believe you haven't been personally insulting and are only defending yourself and God, but to at least some of us here it sounds an awfully lot like personal insults. You aren't the only one guilty of that of course.

But do you really think you honor God with such a defense? That you persuade anyone of anything other than that Christians are thin skinned types with short fuses? That kind of defense doesn't make Christianity look attractive to me. I can imagine how it looks to somebody who isn't a Christian in the first place.

I never said I was not personally insulting, I said my insults were not based on anyone's beliefs, they are based on their actions.

As for whether or not God will honor my defense, why should I use that as a factor?

 

[Foxfyre]

QW, you may believe you haven't been personally insulting and are only defending yourself and God, but to at least some of us here it sounds an awfully lot like personal insults. You aren't the only one guilty of that of course.

But do you really think you honor God with such a defense? That you persuade anyone of anything other than that Christians are thin skinned types with short fuses? That kind of defense doesn't make Christianity look attractive to me. I can imagine how it looks to somebody who isn't a Christian in the first place.

I never said I was not personally insulting, I said my insults were not based on anyone's beliefs, they are based on their actions.

As for whether or not God will honor my defense, why should I use that as a factor?

I'm sure you believe that is what you are doing and I accept that as your intent. I am equally sure that isn't what many others are hearing.

I didn't refer to whether God will honor anybody's defense. I try really hard not to speak for God. That's way above my pay grade.

I referred to honoring God by representing him in a way that others might get a glimpse of the God we worship. I think when we defend God in an angry or accusing way, we create very unpleasant images of Him and his followers in the minds of others.

I suppose there are folks who have been converted after they were dangled over the pit a bit or some such, but I'm pretty sure nobody has ever been persuaded to love Jesus by being told he or she is going to hell. Or any reasonabile facsimile of that kind of judgment.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Quantum: I appreciate your passionate defense of what you believe in. I believe
honest discourse, despite the flaws we may express in our delivery, is the way we will
establish truth and understanding, so thank you for inviting input and discussion.

As for your defense, what gives us authority when enforcing what is right
IS to be aligned with God's truth, God's will and God's justice. If we are consistent,
that is where we enforce corrections and resolve conflicts with each other.

So in order to be as consistent as possible with God's truth or laws in the Bible,
the Bible instructs us to speak the truth with love, to do all things with love,
to forgive others as we as God to forgive us. So when we speak the truth with love
and forgiveness, it comes out as wisdom and compassion and not so much in terms
of personal issues we take with people or targeting them personally.

It comes out as honest critiques and corrections of points made that could be improved
or clarified.

So it is received more effectively.

None of us is perfect in our communications.
No one can fault you without also pointing out flaws in everyone else on here who gets
personal and makes imperfect or faulty arguments or off remarks etc.

Where we strive to help each other to be more effective accurate and consistent,
those efforts will be rewarded. The more forgiving we are the easier it is to share corrections. Thus by confessing our faults to one another, and praying for one another,
our relations will be healed as the truth is established that sets us free from divisive strife.

God Bless you and keep you on the narrow path
where we can all agree in truth in Christ Jesus.

Thank you QW
Please be well and I support and encourage you in your efforts
and commitment to speak and defend God's truth for the sake of Justice or Jesus

When you realize everyone on here is also trying to defend what we know of
God's truth, it is easier to see we are allies in the same struggle and not enemies.
Fear and division become our enemies and we blame each other,
but you remove that factor with greater love and forgiveness, and behold the enemy influences are overcome that otherwise conquer us by dividing us from one another.

Don't fall for division which weakens us.
Love and forgiveness overcome and allow God's Grace through
Christ Jesus to enter in and correct the wrongs. Where we receive one another
in Divine Forgiveness and Mercy, God's will is done. So it is good to align our defenses with God's will and truth, so it speaks for itself when we share with each other.

Love, Emily

QW, you may believe you haven't been personally insulting and are only defending yourself and God, but to at least some of us here it sounds an awfully lot like personal insults. You aren't the only one guilty of that of course.

But do you really think you honor God with such a defense? That you persuade anyone of anything other than that Christians are thin skinned types with short fuses? That kind of defense doesn't make Christianity look attractive to me. I can imagine how it looks to somebody who isn't a Christian in the first place.

I never said I was not personally insulting, I said my insults were not based on anyone's beliefs, they are based on their actions.

As for whether or not God will honor my defense, why should I use that as a factor?

 

[hortysir]

As for the story of Adam and Eve, it is no more idiotic to use that as a teaching mechanism for children or adults than it is to use "The Grinch" or "A Christmas Carol" to teach how Christmas can change hearts or to use Aesop's Fables to illustrate universal principles of life.

Of course according to the story, Adam and Eve introduced sin into the world where none had existed before. So they were not subject to 'original' sin. Various theologies over the ages have addressed the concept of 'original sin' as a) something that taints all subsequent generations--I don't subscribe to that one personally--or b) refers to the reason Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, for since Adam and Eve sinned, nobody is capable of keeping the whole of the Law. (I can go along with that one.)

It's fun to think of Adam and Eve as the only humans who didn't have belly buttons. As to their two-year-old phase, the Scriptures don't speak to that. It would seem reasonable that since there were no parents to raise them, that God formed them as adults and they skipped childhood, puberty, and all that. Just fun things to think about.

To the orange highlighted:
Just as yeast corrupts bread, sin has corrupted the human animal.

To the green highlighted:
Without (a) there'd be no need for (b)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QW, you may believe you haven't been personally insulting and are only defending yourself and God, but to at least some of us here it sounds an awfully lot like personal insults. You aren't the only one guilty of that of course.

But do you really think you honor God with such a defense? That you persuade anyone of anything other than that Christians are thin skinned types with short fuses? That kind of defense doesn't make Christianity look attractive to me. I can imagine how it looks to somebody who isn't a Christian in the first place.

I never said I was not personally insulting, I said my insults were not based on anyone's beliefs, they are based on their actions.

As for whether or not God will honor my defense, why should I use that as a factor?

I'm sure you believe that is what you are doing and I accept that as your intent. I am equally sure that isn't what many others are hearing.

I didn't refer to whether God will honor anybody's defense. I try really hard not to speak for God. That's way above my pay grade.

I referred to honoring God by representing him in a way that others might get a glimpse of the God we worship. I think when we defend God in an angry or accusing way, we create very unpleasant images of Him and his followers in the minds of others.

I suppose there are folks who have been converted after they were dangled over the pit a bit or some such, but I'm pretty sure nobody has ever been persuaded to love Jesus by being told he or she is going to hell. Or any reasonabile facsimile of that kind of judgment.

This is what the God I worship says about people who sneer at Him.

Romans 1:

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


By the way, I would suggest you stop limiting God, He used a man who took money to prophesy against Israel.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Dear Quantum: I appreciate your passionate defense of what you believe in. I believe
honest discourse, despite the flaws we may express in our delivery, is the way we will
establish truth and understanding, so thank you for inviting input and discussion.

As for your defense, what gives us authority when enforcing what is right
IS to be aligned with God's truth, God's will and God's justice. If we are consistent,
that is where we enforce corrections and resolve conflicts with each other.

So in order to be as consistent as possible with God's truth or laws in the Bible,
the Bible instructs us to speak the truth with love, to do all things with love,
to forgive others as we as God to forgive us. So when we speak the truth with love
and forgiveness, it comes out as wisdom and compassion and not so much in terms
of personal issues we take with people or targeting them personally.

It comes out as honest critiques and corrections of points made that could be improved
or clarified.

So it is received more effectively.

None of us is perfect in our communications.
No one can fault you without also pointing out flaws in everyone else on here who gets
personal and makes imperfect or faulty arguments or off remarks etc.

Where we strive to help each other to be more effective accurate and consistent,
those efforts will be rewarded. The more forgiving we are the easier it is to share corrections. Thus by confessing our faults to one another, and praying for one another,
our relations will be healed as the truth is established that sets us free from divisive strife.

God Bless you and keep you on the narrow path
where we can all agree in truth in Christ Jesus.

Thank you QW
Please be well and I support and encourage you in your efforts
and commitment to speak and defend God's truth for the sake of Justice or Jesus

When you realize everyone on here is also trying to defend what we know of
God's truth, it is easier to see we are allies in the same struggle and not enemies.
Fear and division become our enemies and we blame each other,
but you remove that factor with greater love and forgiveness, and behold the enemy influences are overcome that otherwise conquer us by dividing us from one another.

Don't fall for division which weakens us.
Love and forgiveness overcome and allow God's Grace through
Christ Jesus to enter in and correct the wrongs. Where we receive one another
in Divine Forgiveness and Mercy, God's will is done. So it is good to align our defenses with God's will and truth, so it speaks for itself when we share with each other.

Love, Emily

QW, you may believe you haven't been personally insulting and are only defending yourself and God, but to at least some of us here it sounds an awfully lot like personal insults. You aren't the only one guilty of that of course.

But do you really think you honor God with such a defense? That you persuade anyone of anything other than that Christians are thin skinned types with short fuses? That kind of defense doesn't make Christianity look attractive to me. I can imagine how it looks to somebody who isn't a Christian in the first place.

I never said I was not personally insulting, I said my insults were not based on anyone's beliefs, they are based on their actions.

As for whether or not God will honor my defense, why should I use that as a factor?

Trust me, I am infinitely patient with people who are sincere, even if I disagree with the way they interpret something. What I refuse to do is allow someone who totally rejects God, and who thinks that I should not be allowed to pray in public, to dictate to me about how I defend my faith.