Bill Would Force Obama To Reveal Birth Documents

[nodoginnafight]

This thread is a waste of space...

And until a birther can give a legitimate explaination for WHY they expect the president to go along with their attempt to change the rules .... they are a waste of time.

 

[007]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed, you anti birthers are all nothing more than a bunch of brain dead, obamabot, ass lickers....

 

[nodoginnafight]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

 

[007]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

You sir, are full of SHIT! The Senate held HEARINGS on John McCain. Can you explain why they didn't on obama? Can you tell me why obama continues to spend MILLIONS on HIDING his birth certificate? Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

 

[nodoginnafight]

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

lot of gum-flapping - no answer.
I'll be waiting .......



Until you can justify this breach of law and precedent - you are going to have to get used to being called a nutjob.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'll check in from time to time to see if you can give a legitimate answewr to that question - until you can, everyone is going to KEEP laughing at you.
I'm not trying to be mean - I'm just trying to help you understand why people cross to the other side of the street when they see you coming.

 

[bodecea]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

You sir, are full of SHIT! The Senate held HEARINGS on John McCain. Can you explain why they didn't on obama? Can you tell me why obama continues to spend MILLIONS on HIDING his birth certificate? Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

I want to hear more on those Senate hearings on John McCain.

I want to hear more on the MILLIONS spent by Obama to hide his birth certificate.

Talk is cheap.

 

[kwc57]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

You sir, are full of SHIT! The Senate held HEARINGS on John McCain. Can you explain why they didn't on obama? Can you tell me why obama continues to spend MILLIONS on HIDING his birth certificate? Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

There were hearings to determine McCain's elligibility to run for president?

 

[bodecea]

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

You sir, are full of SHIT! The Senate held HEARINGS on John McCain. Can you explain why they didn't on obama? Can you tell me why obama continues to spend MILLIONS on HIDING his birth certificate? Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

There were hearings to determine McCain's elligibility to run for president?

I want to hear about them myself.

 

[Emma]

Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

The EO did not seal his personal records OR his birth record.


Here. Someone went to a lot of time and effort to explain why what you claim is wrong:

Why don’t people ever read the laws they are talking about… This EO did NOT seal his Birth Certificate…

Who is the Archivist that this EO is talking about?

if we read the Definitions in Section 1 of the EO.. (a) “Archivist” refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee. (hmmmm this isn’t Hawaii where his birth record is kept)

(b) “NARA” refers to the National Archives and Records Administration.(this isn’t the State of Hawaii which is keeping his Birth records this is the Archivist who keeps the records of the President while there is a President)

(e) “Presidential records” refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records.( so Presidential records are not his Birth Certificate maintained by Hawaii)

If we go to the Presidential Records Act and read § 2201. Definitions: we Read what Presidential Records are:

“(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise and assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term–

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of his staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.”

We also Read that there are Personal records…. “(3) The term “personal records” means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes–

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term “Archivist” means the Archivist of the United States. (this isn’t the state of Hawaii which is maintaining the Birth Records of Obama)

(5) The term “former President”, when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.”

Obama Signs Executive Order Barring Release Of His Birth Certificate : FreedoMedium

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-1712.pdf
-----------

Now let's go back a bit further:

Signed on 21 January 2009. Federal Register page and date: 74 Fed. Reg. 4669 26 January 2009.

Restores the wording of Executive Order 12667, and revokes the Bush administration replacement Executive Order 13233.

So what was Executive Order 13233, you ask?

Executive Order 13233 limited access to the records of former United States Presidents. It was drafted by then White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales and issued by George W. Bush on November 1, 2001 [Hmmm]. Section 13 of Order 13233 revoked Executive Order 12667 which was issued by Ronald Reagan on January 18, 1989.

Executive Order 13233 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes. I know. It's Wiki. It IS, however, well sourced. Read the source links and you'll see that by reversing GWBush's executive order, Obama was carrying through his promise to reverse the level of secrecy the previous administration had placed upon such records.

In 1974, Congress passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act of 1974, placing the presidential records of Richard Nixon in federal custody to prevent their destruction.[3][4]

The legislative action was intended to reduce secrecy, while allowing historians to perform their responsibilities. In 1972, decades worth of official and unofficial Federal Bureau of Investigation records had been destroyed, upon the death of J. Edgar Hoover, by his longtime secretary. The Presidential Records Act of 1978 expanded such protection of historical records, by mandating that the records of former presidents would automatically become the property of the federal government upon his leaving the Oval Office, and then transferred to the Archivist of the United States, thereafter to be made available to the public after no more than 12 years.

Thus, the presidential papers of Ronald Reagan were due to be made public when George W. Bush took office in January 2001.

However, in a White House memo[5] dated March 23, 2001, the Counsel to the President conveyed the following to U.S Archivist John W. Carlin:

Section 2(b) of Executive Order 12667, issued by former President Ronald Reagan on January 16, 1989, requires the Archivist of the United States to delay release of Presidential records at the instruction of the current President. On behalf of the President, I instruct you to extend for 90 days (until June 21, 2001) the time in which President Bush may claim a constitutionally based privilege over the Presidential records that former President Reagan, acting under Section 2204(a) of Title 4, has protected from disclosure for the 12 years since the end of his Presidency. This directive applies as well to the Vice Presidential records of former Vice President George H.W. Bush.

This instruction was repeated on June 6, 2001,[5] before the 90 days had elapsed, giving a new deadline of August 31, 2001.

On the day of this deadline, Alberto Gonzales instructed the Archivist to wait a few additional weeks.[5] On November 1, 2001, Bush issued Executive Order 13233, limiting the access to the records of former U.S. Presidents:

...reflecting military, diplomatic, or national security secrets, Presidential communications, legal advice, legal work, or the deliberative processes of the President and the President's advisers, and to do so in a manner consistent with the Supreme Court's decisions in Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, 433 U.S. 425 (1977), and other cases...

In November 2001, the National Security Archive, the American Historical Association and other plaintiffs filed a lawsuit in the D.C. District Court against the National Archives and Records Administration and the Archivist, claiming constitutional problems with the order, and pointing out that "access to materials may be delayed for an unlimited period of time after the expiration of the 12-year restriction period while a former president and the incumbent president ‘review’ materials proposed for release", because of § 3(b) of the order, which states
After receiving the records he requests, the former President shall review those records as expeditiously as possible, and for no longer than 90 days for requests that are not unduly burdensome. The Archivist shall not permit access to the records by a requester during this period of review or when requested by the former President to extend the time for review.
While most of the lawsuit was found to be unjusticiable at this time due to lack of ripeness, the Court held that "the Archivist’s reliance on § 3(b) of Executive Order 13,233 is arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, and not in accordance with law in violation of the Administrative Procedure Act" and enjoined "the Archivist from further relying on § 3(b) of Executive Order 13,233". The rest of the lawsuit was dismissed without prejudice.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20071001/PRAdecision.pdf

November 6, 2001



Representative Stephen Horn
Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Efficiency
2154 Rayburn Office Building
Washington, D.C.
Via facsimile transmission: (202) 225-2373


I write to express the grave concern of the Society of American Archivists with respect to the President’s recent Executive Order 13233 on Presidential Papers. Founded in 1936, the Society of American Archivists (SAA) is North America's oldest and largest national archival professional association. SAA's mission is to serve the educational and informational needs of more than 3,400 individual and institutional members and to provide leadership to ensure the identification, preservation, and use of records of historical value.

Our apprehension over this Executive Order is on several levels. First, it violates both the spirit and letter of existing U.S. law on access to presidential papers as clearly laid down in 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207. This law establishes the principle that presidential records are the property of the United States government and that the management and custody of, as well as access to, such records should be governed by the Archivist of the United States and established archival principles—all within the statutory framework of the act itself. The Executive Order puts the responsibility for these decisions with the President, and indeed with any sitting President into the future. Access to the vital historical records of this nation should not be governed by executive decree; this is why the existing law was created.

Second, on a broader level this Executive Order potentially threatens to undermine one of the very foundations of our nation. Free and open access to information is the cornerstone to modern democratic societies around the world. For such access to be curtailed or abrogated by an executive process not subject to public or legislative review or scrutiny would violate the principles upon which our nation was founded—all the more troubling at a time when we should be holding the beacon of freedom higher than ever.

Finally, we would urge Congress to reassert its authority in these matters. While present law establishes important principles with respect to presidential papers and their management and care which certainly appear to need reaffirming, it is entirely possible that the law may need some fine-tuning, and that minor revisions may satisfy the concerns that motivated the White House in this Executive Order. For example, it may be that revising the law to modify the length of time during which Presidential papers are restricted will serve to protect legitimate national security and executive privilege concerns while still ensuring that the American people have certain and timely access to the records of their Chief Executive. This is only to suggest that some compromises may be possible. We would be happy to consult with and otherwise assist your subcommittee and other relevant bodies within Congress in developing new and workable legislation that is consistent with open access to information.

Once again, let me stress our professional concern over the most recent Executive Order. Not only does it challenge and abrogate existing statutory authority, it has the potential to seriously restrict the unfettered flow of information upon which our nation depends. I would strongly urge Congress to take immediate action to overturn this action.

Thank you. We look forward to working with you and your colleagues in resolving this matter.



Steve Hensen

President
Society of American Archivists

SAA: Executive Order 13233 on Presidential Papers

Call to Action on Executive Order 13233


A Message from President Steve Hensen
On behalf of the Council and Executive Committee of the Society of American Archivists, I want to urge all archivists, whether SAA members or not, to communicate to their representatives in the House and Senate, their concern over the implications of Executive Order 13233, entitled "Further Implementation of the Presidential Records Act." This order, far from being a "further implementation," is more like a complete abnegation of the original 1978 Presidential Records Act. Links to the text of the orders and background information are provided below.

The archival and public information implications aspects of this order are profound, being contrary to established archival principles and standards, being inconsistent with existing statutory law, and, most important, being at odds with the principles of open access to information upon which our country is founded.

Meanwhile, letters to your representatives should be sent as soon as possible (I would suggest faxing them as the mails are understandably slow and unreliable these days). I would also urge you to copy Rep. Stephen Horn, who chairs the House Subcommittee on Government Efficiency, which held hearings on this matter last Friday. His fax number is 202-225-2373. In addition, a fax to Judge Alberto Gonzales (White House Council) at: 202-456-6279 wouldn't hurt either. While all of these letters will be important in building awareness in Congress and the White House, letters received by tomorrow will go into the Subcommittee's files to be consulted as part of the next step in the hearings process. Thank you for your efforts in this important matter.

Posted on Archives and Archivists, 15 November 2001.

SAA: Call to Action on Executive Order 13233 (includes a number of links regarding the issue)

And the Executive Order signed by Reagan:

Executive Order 12667 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


ALA | Executive Order 13233

 

[Sinatra]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

You sir, are full of SHIT! The Senate held HEARINGS on John McCain. Can you explain why they didn't on obama? Can you tell me why obama continues to spend MILLIONS on HIDING his birth certificate? Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

Obama did that?

Do have a link for that information?

I would be very interested in seeing it...

 

[Emma]

Executive Order 13233

Executive Order 12472

 

[Sinatra]

Executive Order 13233

Executive Order 12472

Those do not appear to be Obama Executive orders?

 

[Emma]

Executive Order 13233

Executive Order 12472

Those do not appear to be Obama Executive orders?

No. Those related to my previous post (the one above yours).

I guess I should have just edited and added them to my own, but it was already quite long, so I just posted them separately. Sorry.

 

[Sinatra]

Executive Order 13233

Executive Order 12472

Those do not appear to be Obama Executive orders?

No. Those related to my previous post (the one above yours).

I guess I should have just edited and added them to my own, but it was already quite long, so I just posted them separately. Sorry.

Thank you for the clarification - I went back and found your previous thread.

While no fan of Obama's politics - I have yet to see anything to challenge the assertion he was in fact born within the United States.

If Obama had in fact rushed in and signed an Executive Order sealing all of his records that would provide, if not proof, pause for consideration as to his motivation for doing so. It appears Obama did not in fact do that.

Anyone wish to counter that?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Hmmmmmm - STILL no rational reason for demanding that Obama submit to standards that other presidents have not be subjected to .....

So I'm STILLL waiting ............

 

[Sinatra]

Hmmmmmm - STILL no rational reason for demanding that Obama submit to standards that other presidents have not be subjected to .....

So I'm STILLL waiting ............

What about this picture?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

ANSWER THAT!

btw - your post really doesn't help your "I'm-not-a-nutjob" case very much.

You sir, are full of SHIT! The Senate held HEARINGS on John McCain. Can you explain why they didn't on obama? Can you tell me why obama continues to spend MILLIONS on HIDING his birth certificate? Can you tell me why the FIRST THING obama did when he stepped into the Oval Office was to sign an executive order SEALING ALL his personal records, INCLUDING his birth certificate?

Just what in the HELL is obama hiding?

Go ahead, tell us all....

Care to PROVE that Obama has spent MILLIONS to defend against those baseless claims?

 

[BolshevikHunter]

And until obama produces a legitimate birth certificate that states where he was born, what hospital he was born in, the delivering doctors name and any other attending witnesses that can be confirmed,

No other president has been asked to produce all this. Why do you expect THIS president to do it?

That's because no past Presidents have ever been suspected of being a Foreign agent. Why so much secrecy if there is nothing to hide? But continue on being a blind sheople yes Man. ~BH

 

[Emma]

Those do not appear to be Obama Executive orders?

No. Those related to my previous post (the one above yours).

I guess I should have just edited and added them to my own, but it was already quite long, so I just posted them separately. Sorry.

Thank you for the clarification - I went back and found your previous thread.

While no fan of Obama's politics - I have yet to see anything to challenge the assertion he was in fact born within the United States.

If Obama had in fact rushed in and signed an Executive Order sealing all of his records that would provide, if not proof, pause for consideration as to his motivation for doing so. It appears Obama did not in fact do that.

Anyone wish to counter that?

It takes a bit of backtracking and research, but Obama's EO reversed GWBush's EO which reversed Reagan's EO which actually provided for more transparency regarding presidential records. Obama's EO restored the wording and intent of Reagan's EO.

Does this mean Ronald Reagan was in on the conspiracy too???



Seems I have to edit my list of BC co-conspirators again.

Obama and his wife (of course), everyone he ran against in the primary and general, the Executive of every state where he was on the ballot for primary and general, his parents, his grandparents, administrators of Kapi'olani hospital, the publishers of 2 Hawaiian newspapers, assorted relatives and neighbors, the state of Hawaii---including the Republican governor and Director of the DOH, the media aka "brownshirts", fact-checking groups, assorted politicians from both major parties, the SSA, the 538 Electors of the 50 states and DC, the U.S. Congress, Ann Coulter, Karl Rove, the administrators of Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa (well, Kenya in general), members of the Bomford clan (clearly planted to infiltrate and destroy the American electoral process), the government of Australia, and now President Ronald Reagan.

It would be much simpler if the birfers would just tell us who isn't in on this conspiracy.