Bill Would Force Obama To Reveal Birth Documents

[Contessa_Sharra]

You know what's really crazy?

Believing that something is true, with no evidence, in the face of ovewhelming evidence to the contrary?

Actually I believe that is the very definition of "crazy".

Barry soetoro aka barry dunham aka barrak hussein obama aka malcolm x jr aka not my prez!!!

Since you probably were a supporter of George W Bush, arguably the worst President in the history of this nation, I think I'll take your "opinion" with a grain of salt.

Not totally sure if he was the worst, but Woodrow Wilson and DUH-b-b-b-ya are certainly neck and neck for worst....

 

[Emma]

You realize, of course, *they* are all in on the conspiracy.

As is the Bomford clan and Australian government.

It would be simpler and much more efficient if the birthers would just tell us who isn't in on it.

I'm starting to feel left out

Hey look! We've been treated to another review of the HERESAY EVIDENCE which was produced to IMPLY that The BOY King was born in Hawaii...

None of which stands as a legal document which comes with ANY legal liability should it turn out that he wasn't actually born in the US. It is the evidence chain equivilent of "It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is..."

All of it looks precisely like something a lawyer would produce as PROOF of something if the goal was to imply the fact, without suffering the liability of FRAUD; which would be the case if they simply printed up a False Birth certificate.

So I'm right? The state authorities are in on the conspiracy?

Imagine now, how ridiculous this all is... because ALL IT TAKES TO SET THIS WHOLE MESS ASIDE is to simply PRODUCE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Which he did.

The anti-American Left (pardon the redundancy but I feel that it's necessary at this point) wants you to believe that it's not reasonable to DEMAND to see the BIRTH CERT, because of all the other evidence which tends towards estabalishing what otherwise seems like plenty of info to convince someone that Hussein is a NBC... When in TRUTH, If all that information is true and correct, THERE IS NO REASON WHY HE COULD NOT PRODUCE A BIRTH CERT.

Which he did.

Understand, IF this were a circumstance wherein there was a GOOD REASON WHY AN ACTUAL BIRTH CERITIFICATE could NOT be produced, this information would be perfectly plausible as a device to set aside REASONABLE DOUBT, UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT ONE COULD BE PRODUCED.

So I'm right? The state authorities are in on the conspiracy?

The Left would say that HAWAII HAS A LAW MAKING IT ILLEGAL FOR THE STATE TO PRODUCE A BIRTH CERT TO ANYONE; except thats not true. Hawaii simply has a law which prevents non-principles from being given such. Hussein is perfectly within his rights to request a Long Form Birth Cert and provide it to ANYONE he cares to...

The state DOH does not provide 'long' copies to anyone. Upon a request for a birth certificate, the only form provided is the COLB. And yeah, the DOH decision to do so has the force of law. I've provided proof of this time and again.

Thus there IS NO REASON WHY HE CANNOT PRODUCE A LONG FORM< ACTUAL< BIRTH CERTIFICATE...

Upon a request for a birth certificate, the only form provided is the COLB. And yeah, the DOH decision to do so has the force of law. I've provided proof of this time and again.

DESPITE AL THIS HERESAY, CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE WHICH HAS BEEN PRODUCED TO ESTABLISH THE FOUNDATION THAT IT IS REASONABLE TO CONCLUDE THAT HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII...

The COLB is proof of the date and place of his birth. Nothing 'hearsay' or 'circumstantial' about it. It's proof. Unless you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy?

Now the simple fact are as follows: Hussein has stated that he was born in Hawaii...
There are documents which speak to this fact and TEND TOWARDS EVIDENCE OF SUCH...

The COLB is evidence he was born in Hawaii. No "tend toward" about it.

That would-be evidence would be reasonable to accept, where such was the only possible, available evidence; until such time that a true witnessed certification could be provided.

The COLB is the only form the state of Hawaii provides upon request for a birth certificate. Unless you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy.

By all objective indications... a true, witnessed Certitification OF HUSSEIN'S ACTUAL BIRTH, listing the relevant circumstances and witnesses HAS LONG SINCE BEEN NOT ONLY POSSIBLE, but READILY AVIALABLE.

Not since the early 2000's when the DOH changed their procedures and began to issue COLBs upon request for birth certificates. Unless you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy.

The evidence that Emma posts is as she says it is... it is EVIDENCE...

Thanks for admitting that.

But she is dead assed wrong when she asserts that the evidence CONCLUSIVELY PROVES that he was born on Hawaii;

It does conclusively prove he was born in Hawaii. Unless you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy.

the evidence simply provides a reasonable basis to believe that Hussein was born in Hawaii. And none of it provides for ANY LEGAL LIABILITY were sufficient COUNTERING evidence were to come to the table which DISPROVED IT...

What the fuck are you even trying to say here

Who ever bought the ad posted in the News Paper is long dead... Hussein can't be held liable for THAT.

The two ads were not 'bought'. They were printed based upon information received from the DOH. Unless you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy.

If it turns out that Hawaii has issued the Certification of Live Birth on dubious grounds, but within the framework of early Hawaiin law, that provided for such certs for those infants NOT born in the US...

After all this time, why haven't the birthers been able to produce one person not born in Hawaii who has been able to get a Hawaiian birth certificate?

which would disqualify The BOY King... No one is Hawaii can be held liable...

And so on it goes with the rest of the hearsay, circumstantial evidence which is on the table.

The COLB is proof of the date and place of his birth. Nothing 'hearsay' or 'circumstantial' about it. It's proof. Unless you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy.

BUT! IF someone produces a Birth Certificate which wrongly states FACT; well that's another kettle of Poi...

Thanks for proving my point again. No matter what is provided, the birthers aren't going to believe it.

THAT IS FRAUD AND THAT comes with some excedingly harsh consequences... particularly given the relevant circumstances...

So you do believe that the state is in on the conspiracy.

SO... When it is ALL said and done... Given the evidence which Emma has regurgitated; evidence which provides a reasonable basis to believe that Hussein was born on Hawaii...

As proof is wont to do. For those of us who are reasonable, that is.

THAT EVIDENCE PROVIDES THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON THAT THE READILY AVAILABLE BIRTH CERTIFICATE SHOULD NOT BE PRODUCED.

Why haven't the birthers produced someone who was born in Hawaii to simply request and receive a "long" form birth certificate from the DOH. Since it's so readily available and stuff.

Except where the goal is to maintain that BELIEF, and where producing the ACTUAL BIRTH CERT would undermine that BELIEF.

So you're saying I'm right and you believe the state authorities are in on the conspiracy?

That's it... There simply is NO OTHER logically valid, intellectually sound reason NOT TO PRODUCE IT and to spend MILLIONS to prevent the US Citizenry form witnessing it; GIVEN THE EVIDENCE, provided by Hussein and passed along by Emma... and the incontestable fact that it exist and is readily available.

If your contention is that the state of Hawaii will provide a long form birth certificate upon request, then please find someone born in Hawaii and have them do so. Since it's so easy and stuff. And while you're at it, please point out on the form used to request a birth certificate where one can specify whether they want a "long" form or a COLB. Thanks.

 

[Missourian]

We've been thru this before:


And the Department of health has NO REGULATION against making exact copies of vital records...in fact they have an entire page of their website dedicated to just that, for geneology and such.

Who is Eligible to Apply for a Genealogy Request?
Any private individual or individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental or private organization or agency, working on genealogy projects may apply for issuance of copies of vital records on file with the Department of Health. Any applicant seeking issuance of copies of vital records of events that occurred seventy-five years or less prior to the current year must establish a direct and tangible interest in the records to be eligible for them (see Certified Copies for more information).

An applicant need not establish a direct and tangible interest in vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year to apply for these records.





How to Apply for a Genealogy Request

• Applications for issuance of copies of vital records by an individual working on genealogy projects must be submitted in writing. No telephone or Internet (e-mail) requests will be accepted. Send applications by postal mail to:
  
  State Department of Health
  Office of Health Status Monitoring
  Issuance/Vital Statistics Section
  P.O. Box 3378
  Honolulu, HI 96801

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/genealogy.html

 

[Vast LWC]

We've been thru this before:


And the Department of health has NO REGULATION against making exact copies of vital records...in fact they have an entire page of their website dedicated to just that, for geneology and such.

Who is Eligible to Apply for a Genealogy Request?
Any private individual or individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental or private organization or agency, working on genealogy projects may apply for issuance of copies of vital records on file with the Department of Health. Any applicant seeking issuance of copies of vital records of events that occurred seventy-five years or less prior to the current year must establish a direct and tangible interest in the records to be eligible for them (see Certified Copies for more information).

An applicant need not establish a direct and tangible interest in vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year to apply for these records.

That means nothing at all.

"May apply for copies of vital records"

not

"Has the right to have copies of any and all vital records they want."

In fact, is you went further on the same site you would see this:

Who is Eligible to Apply for Certified Copies of Vital Records?

A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest:

the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with);
the registrant’s spouse;
the registrant’s parent(s);
a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild);
a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin);
a legal guardian of the registrant;
a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
a personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
a person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
a person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
a person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
If you are not able to establish a direct and tangible interest in the record, you are ineligible and will not be issued a certified copy of the record.

Upon request, a letter of verification attesting to the existence of a requested record on file with the Department of Health may be issued. Instructions for applying for letters of verification are included in the next section and immediately follow the set of instructions on applying for certified copies. The same eligibility requirements apply for both ceritified copies and verification letters.

A search of the records on file with the Department of Health will only be conducted to process an application requesting either a certified copy or a letter of verification. If the search establishes that the requested record is not on file, you will be notified that no record has been found. No searches of the records on file with the Department of Health will be conducted prior to or outside of the receipt of an application and payment of fees.


Be that as it may, the necessary documents were already shown to the people that needed to see them (the Supreme Court), who verified what was needed to be verified, and then summarily dismissed the case that insane "birthers" were attempting to bring before them.

You can see high resolution photos of the official documents in one of my above posts.

And if you asked me for a copy of my hand-written, hospital birth certificate, I would tell you to go to hell, as you could use it as proof for identity theft.

Hey, here's a thought, I don't believe who you are, how about you send me a copy of your birth certificate and you social security number?

 

[Vast LWC]

And, once again, no "birther" has provided any proof whatsoever indicating that Mr Obama is NOT a citizen of the United States.

So, put up or shut up.

 

[Missourian]

We've been thru this before:


And the Department of health has NO REGULATION against making exact copies of vital records...in fact they have an entire page of their website dedicated to just that, for geneology and such.

Who is Eligible to Apply for a Genealogy Request?
Any private individual or individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental or private organization or agency, working on genealogy projects may apply for issuance of copies of vital records on file with the Department of Health. Any applicant seeking issuance of copies of vital records of events that occurred seventy-five years or less prior to the current year must establish a direct and tangible interest in the records to be eligible for them (see Certified Copies for more information).

An applicant need not establish a direct and tangible interest in vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year to apply for these records.

That means nothing at all.

"May apply for copies of vital records"

not

"Has the right to have copies of any and all vital records they want."

In fact, is you went further on the same site you would see this:

Who is Eligible to Apply for Certified Copies of Vital Records?

A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest:

the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with);
the registrant’s spouse;
the registrant’s parent(s);
a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild);
a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin);
a legal guardian of the registrant;
a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
a personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
a person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
a person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
a person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
If you are not able to establish a direct and tangible interest in the record, you are ineligible and will not be issued a certified copy of the record.

Upon request, a letter of verification attesting to the existence of a requested record on file with the Department of Health may be issued. Instructions for applying for letters of verification are included in the next section and immediately follow the set of instructions on applying for certified copies. The same eligibility requirements apply for both ceritified copies and verification letters.

A search of the records on file with the Department of Health will only be conducted to process an application requesting either a certified copy or a letter of verification. If the search establishes that the requested record is not on file, you will be notified that no record has been found. No searches of the records on file with the Department of Health will be conducted prior to or outside of the receipt of an application and payment of fees.


Be that as it may, the necessary documents were already shown to the people that needed to see them (the Supreme Court), who verified what was needed to be verified, and then summarily dismissed the case that insane "birthers" were attempting to bring before them.

You can see high resolution photos of the official documents in one of my above posts.

And if you asked me for a copy of my hand-written, hospital birth certificate, I would tell you to go to hell, as you could use it as proof for identity theft.

Hey, here's a thought, I don't believe who you are, how about you send me a copy of your birth certificate and you social security number?

And Obama qualifies under number 1, so you agree he could aquire a copy of his long form if he wished.

 

[Emma]

And Obama qualifies under number 1, so you agree he could aquire a copy of his long form if he wished.

No, he cannot. The state does not issue those forms any longer.

I have to go to work now, so I have to get off the merry go 'round until tomorrow, but when I get back I'll search for my post that links to a (Hawaiian government) site that discusses this, and states unequivocally that Hawaii does not issue long forms any more, and that they only provide the COLBs now.

 

[JimH52]

Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real - USATODAY.com

But don't let the facts change your mind. Please continue to doubt the truth and even throw 20% of the RNC budget at this mounting concern within the GOP. I think you should appoint Sarah "Take the Money and Run" Palin to become a Special Prosecutor in this matter. But please don't give up.

I know you are going to find some really good stuff in a few days. I would say the GOP should make this their Number One item on their Platform. HOW CAN YOU NOT EXAMINE SOMETHING SO WORTHY!

LOL

 

[Vast LWC]

I would say the GOP should make this their Number One item on their Platform. HOW CAN YOU NOT EXAMINE SOMETHING SO WORTHY!

ROFL, definitely. In fact this should be their entire party platform.

 

[geauxtohell]

The state of Hawaii, to include the Governor, has confirmed that Obama was born on the date, time, and location listed on the COLB. Twice.

Again: Game, set, match.

What is left to argue?

 

[PI2]

I can not believe that these "Birthers" are actually spending our money pursuing this.

 

[JimH52]

I would say the GOP should make this their Number One item on their Platform. HOW CAN YOU NOT EXAMINE SOMETHING SO WORTHY!

ROFL, definitely. In fact this should be their entire party platform.

OFFICIAL PLATFORM OF THE GRAND OLE PARTY​

It shall be the all consuming effort of the Republican Party in the coming days to serve the American People by proving beyond a doubt that Barack Hussein Obama does not possess a valid Birth Certificate deeming him a citizen of the United States. Once that fact is proven, the Republican Party will declare the results of the 2008 Presidential Election null and void. The Republican nominee, John McCain and his most worthy ticket mate, Sarah Palin, will demand they they receive the appropriate swearing in.

 

[bodecea]

I would say the GOP should make this their Number One item on their Platform. HOW CAN YOU NOT EXAMINE SOMETHING SO WORTHY!

ROFL, definitely. In fact this should be their entire party platform.

OFFICIAL PLATFORM OF THE GRAND OLE PARTY​

It shall be the all consuming effort of the Republican Party in the coming days to serve the American People by proving beyond a doubt that Barack Hussein Obama does not possess a valid Birth Certificate deeming him a citizen of the United States. Once that fact is proven, the Republican Party will declare the results of the 2008 Presidential Election null and void. The Republican nominee, John McCain and his most worthy ticket mate, Sarah Palin, will demand they they receive the appropriate swearing in.

If Palin doesn't quit first.

 

[Emma]

And Obama qualifies under number 1, so you agree he could aquire a copy of his long form if he wished.

No, he cannot. The state does not issue those forms any longer.

I have to go to work now, so I have to get off the merry go 'round until tomorrow, but when I get back I'll search for my post that links to a (Hawaiian government) site that discusses this, and states unequivocally that Hawaii does not issue long forms any more, and that they only provide the COLBs now.

Ugh. The site is lagging like crazy.

Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands &mdash; Department of Hawaiian Home Lands


I can't get the above link to load, it's making my computer lag here, too. I think that is the page I want to link to; I'll have to check back when my computer is not acting up and see for sure. If it IS the one I wanted, it talks about genealogy research so that one can apply for that program and states "ALTHOUGH" a long form BC is preferred, the state of Hawaii no longer issues them, and that when a request is made (even for genealogy purposes), what is provided is a COLB.

 

[Emma]

Ah, ok. That is the one I wanted. Finally loaded. Here:


Tracing Your Genealogy

The general rule of thumb in determining 50 percent blood quantum is to submit enough documentation tracing your genealogy to your full Hawaiian ancestor(s). Some applicants need only go back one or two generations - that is, to their grandparents.

Others may need to go back further, gathering pieces of information which eventually grow into a large family tree with roots beginning with full Hawaiian ancestors.

However, before starting your search for acceptable documents, kuka, or consult with your ohana. They are an invaluable source of information. Once you've "talked story" you should be better prepared to begin gathering the documentation needed to show eligibility for the program.

There are two categories of documents used in determining eligibility: primary and secondary.

Primary Documents

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Asking this president to voluntarily submit to a standard of qualification documentation that has not been applied to the previous 43 presidents without any legitimate justification is absurd AND harmful.
Suggesting that Obama should - for the sake of "transparency" - submit himself to a different set of rules than was applied to all previous presidents is wrong. He would be crazy to do it. Turning the qualification process over to a band of nutjobs who can't come up with a single reason to justify their new set of standards is dangerous.
In requesting such a break from law and precedent, birthers carry a HUGE burden of justifying such a request. And no birthers have even come close to articulating WHY.

Why should number 44 be held to a different standard than the other 43 were? What is different about number 44? Is it because he is black that some folks want him measured by different scale? Is it because there are some sore losers out there (Obviously products of "everybody wins" little leagues who never learned how to lose with dignity) who "demand" that he be held to these different standards?

If these are not the reasons birthers want to change the rules after the game has been won, then by all means let me hear a more plausible explanation. Because no one has articulated it yet. That's why every court, every legislative body, and every comptent authority has laughed in the face of the birthers.
And until one of you guys can come up with a legitimate reason why THIS president should be held to a different set of standards, you are relegated to "nutjob" status.

And I'm saying the same thing I said to the "Bush was behind 911" crowd. Show your evidence, show your proof, show your justification or get used to being called a nutjob.

The pressure is not on Obama to agree to your new standards - the pressure is on YOU guys to provide a reasonable rationale behind your request. If you can't come up with that, Obama would be foolish to waste a second on this claptrap. Don't expect HIM to provide your credibility by responding. If you guys can't create any credibility for yourselves in nine months of whining - and so far you haven't - then maybe no credibility is due.

 

[nodoginnafight]

So how about it birthers?
Can any of you give a legitimate reason to hold THIS president to a more stringent documentation standard than previous presidents?

btw, "I'm curious" is not a legitimate reason.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Even if this stupid bill becomes law it will have ZERO impact on Obama as you can not make a law retroactive.

 

[bodecea]

Even if this stupid bill becomes law it will have ZERO impact on Obama as you can not make a law retroactive.

Tho they tried in California...people sometimes forget that 'ex post facto' is written right into the Constitution.

 

[JimH52]

This thread is a waste of space...