Bob Barr At CPAC: 'How Would You Like To Be Waterboarded?'

[JakeStarkey]

I think what she is saying is that, if she were bound and restrained, and felt that drowning was imminent, she would simply give in and let death roll over her. Obviously, she is such a superior human being that she has somehow been able to supress her animalistic survival instinct. wow.

I don't see why not. She's certainly able to suppress her sense of right and wrong, and any moral code.

No problem at all with my sense of right from wrong. I think the dirtbag terrorists have a big problem in that department though. They have no problem killing anyone at any time.

As for my moral code. No problem with that either. I have no problem wishing all the dirtbag terrorists dead and this country and the people in it safe. If waterboarding helps in achieving that goal, then waterboard away.

You think waterboarding is torture. I do not. Thats the difference between you and me.

I wonder what you would do if terrorists had members of your family and were going to kill them in 2 hours and the authorities captured one of them. I wonder what you would do to get the info to save your family????

Moral delima??? Not for me.

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

 

[Claudette]

what a joke. you are aware, I would think, that it is quite possible to actually drown someone by pouring water down their nose and into their lungs? YOU might think you "know" sitting in your comfy den, what waterboarding "is", but I guarantee you, if you had been captured on the battlefield attempting to kill your enemy, and then, when help in captivity by that same enemy and he then strapped you to a board, tilted you backwards and began pouring water down your nose and into your mouth, you would certainly believe that you were near death. but you clearly have no reason to accept that reality... it makes it so much easier for you to justify breaking the supreme law of the land, eh?

You are certainly entitled to your opinioin and I would be the first to defend your right to that opinion.

Tell me Maine. Are you from Maine? If so what part??

I spend 20 plus years in Northern NH almost on the Candian border. Went to many a horse and dog show in the beautiful State of Maine.

my opinion is based upon more than my gut.... I think that you are kidding yourself that you could be waterboarded but somehow your survival instinct would NOT kick in because you" knew what waterboarding really was".

I live in the state capital.

Bangor. Lovely city. Been there a few times. Spent time in Portland also. Many dog shows there.

I believe my survival instincts would kick in but not all people react the same to stress. Some go off the deep end. Some get quiet. Some get combative. I've seen all phases of it in my job.

How would I really react?? My gut tells me it would be in a fighting mode but then one never really knows until your in that situation.

Enjoyed the back and forth though. LOL

 

[Claudette]

I don't see why not. She's certainly able to suppress her sense of right and wrong, and any moral code.

No problem at all with my sense of right from wrong. I think the dirtbag terrorists have a big problem in that department though. They have no problem killing anyone at any time.

As for my moral code. No problem with that either. I have no problem wishing all the dirtbag terrorists dead and this country and the people in it safe. If waterboarding helps in achieving that goal, then waterboard away.

You think waterboarding is torture. I do not. Thats the difference between you and me.

I wonder what you would do if terrorists had members of your family and were going to kill them in 2 hours and the authorities captured one of them. I wonder what you would do to get the info to save your family????

Moral delima??? Not for me.

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

Well thanks for that heads up Jake. I'll be sure to give it all the consideration its due. LOL

Oh BTW, how would you save your family my friend???? Remember. You have 2 hours or they are all dead. Moral Delimea??? Not for me.

 

[bodecea]

No problem at all with my sense of right from wrong. I think the dirtbag terrorists have a big problem in that department though. They have no problem killing anyone at any time.

As for my moral code. No problem with that either. I have no problem wishing all the dirtbag terrorists dead and this country and the people in it safe. If waterboarding helps in achieving that goal, then waterboard away.

You think waterboarding is torture. I do not. Thats the difference between you and me.

I wonder what you would do if terrorists had members of your family and were going to kill them in 2 hours and the authorities captured one of them. I wonder what you would do to get the info to save your family????

Moral delima??? Not for me.

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

Well thanks for that heads up Jake. I'll be sure to give it all the consideration its due. LOL

Oh BTW, how would you save your family my friend???? Remember. You have 2 hours or they are all dead. Moral Delimea??? Not for me.

Let's make this more realistic. You are NOT the government. You catch someone who you need to get info from to save your family's life...and so on and so forth like your scenerio says. You torture that person....they give you information. That information pans out or does not pan out. Either way. Now the authorities find out you tortured someone. What do you think should happen to you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

No problem at all with my sense of right from wrong. I think the dirtbag terrorists have a big problem in that department though. They have no problem killing anyone at any time.

As for my moral code. No problem with that either. I have no problem wishing all the dirtbag terrorists dead and this country and the people in it safe. If waterboarding helps in achieving that goal, then waterboard away.

You think waterboarding is torture. I do not. Thats the difference between you and me.

I wonder what you would do if terrorists had members of your family and were going to kill them in 2 hours and the authorities captured one of them. I wonder what you would do to get the info to save your family????

Moral delima??? Not for me.

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

Well thanks for that heads up Jake. I'll be sure to give it all the consideration its due. LOL

Oh BTW, how would you save your family my friend???? Remember. You have 2 hours or they are all dead. Moral Delimea??? Not for me.

That isn't the issue, Claudette. The issue is that you want to hurt somebody, just given any opportunity that you can. You are like the child perverts here that hide their hideousness in a cloak of words. So do you. You are a pervsion of humanity.

 

[maineman]

You are certainly entitled to your opinioin and I would be the first to defend your right to that opinion.

Tell me Maine. Are you from Maine? If so what part??

I spend 20 plus years in Northern NH almost on the Candian border. Went to many a horse and dog show in the beautiful State of Maine.

my opinion is based upon more than my gut.... I think that you are kidding yourself that you could be waterboarded but somehow your survival instinct would NOT kick in because you" knew what waterboarding really was".

I live in the state capital.

Bangor. Lovely city. Been there a few times. Spent time in Portland also. Many dog shows there.

I believe my survival instincts would kick in but not all people react the same to stress. Some go off the deep end. Some get quiet. Some get combative. I've seen all phases of it in my job.

How would I really react?? My gut tells me it would be in a fighting mode but then one never really knows until your in that situation.

Enjoyed the back and forth though. LOL

Bangor is not the state capital. Augusta is, but it is so small that you could easily miss it.

If your survival instincts would kick in, that would indicate that, instinctively, you felt tha you were in danger of not surviving. and again... if you were strapped down, and totally immobilized, how would you "fight"? You would be at the mercy of your captors and if they were putting you in a position where you felt you were in real danger of not surviving the moment... AND you were immobilized.... don't you think that would scare the shit out of you? Don't you think that is a textbook definition of extreme mental pain?
AND...if it IS, then, by definition, it is against the law of THESE United States.

 

[CMike]

I don't see why not. She's certainly able to suppress her sense of right and wrong, and any moral code.

No problem at all with my sense of right from wrong. I think the dirtbag terrorists have a big problem in that department though. They have no problem killing anyone at any time.

As for my moral code. No problem with that either. I have no problem wishing all the dirtbag terrorists dead and this country and the people in it safe. If waterboarding helps in achieving that goal, then waterboard away.

You think waterboarding is torture. I do not. Thats the difference between you and me.

I wonder what you would do if terrorists had members of your family and were going to kill them in 2 hours and the authorities captured one of them. I wonder what you would do to get the info to save your family????

Moral delima??? Not for me.

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

The problem is your morals.

You would rather thousands of americans die agonizing deaths than get 3 arch terrorists wet

 

[CMike]

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

Well thanks for that heads up Jake. I'll be sure to give it all the consideration its due. LOL

Oh BTW, how would you save your family my friend???? Remember. You have 2 hours or they are all dead. Moral Delimea??? Not for me.

Let's make this more realistic. You are NOT the government. You catch someone who you need to get info from to save your family's life...and so on and so forth like your scenerio says. You torture that person....they give you information. That information pans out or does not pan out. Either way. Now the authorities find out you tortured someone. What do you think should happen to you?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the reality

1) 3 arch terrorists were caught

2) When asked about terrorist attacks they answered "soon you will know"

3) All other measures failed to extract the information

4) They were waterboarded in a much milder form than is done on some of our CIA people in their training

5) It led to two major terrorist attacks being thwarted

a) The plane into a Los Angeles Building

b) A dirty bomb exploding in Washington D.C.

 

[CMike]

my opinion is based upon more than my gut.... I think that you are kidding yourself that you could be waterboarded but somehow your survival instinct would NOT kick in because you" knew what waterboarding really was".

I live in the state capital.

Bangor. Lovely city. Been there a few times. Spent time in Portland also. Many dog shows there.

I believe my survival instincts would kick in but not all people react the same to stress. Some go off the deep end. Some get quiet. Some get combative. I've seen all phases of it in my job.

How would I really react?? My gut tells me it would be in a fighting mode but then one never really knows until your in that situation.

Enjoyed the back and forth though. LOL

Bangor is not the state capital. Augusta is, but it is so small that you could easily miss it.

If your survival instincts would kick in, that would indicate that, instinctively, you felt tha you were in danger of not surviving. and again... if you were strapped down, and totally immobilized, how would you "fight"? You would be at the mercy of your captors and if they were putting you in a position where you felt you were in real danger of not surviving the moment... AND you were immobilized.... don't you think that would scare the shit out of you? Don't you think that is a textbook definition of extreme mental pain?
AND...if it IS, then, by definition, it is against the law of THESE United States.

It's important to get away from the fantasies and hypotheticals to the reality of what actually happened.

Here it is again. I have posted this numerous times.

http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf

Medical and psychological professionals from the CIA's Office ofMedIcal Services
("OMS") carefully evaluate detaInees before any enhanced technique is authorized in order to
ensure that the detainee "is not likely to suffer any severe physical or menti;1 pain Of suffering as
a result of interrogation." Techniques at 4; see OMSGuidelines on Medical and Psychological
Support to Detainee Rendition, Interrogation and Detention at 9 (Dec. 2004) (HOMS
Guideline.f'). In addition, OMS officials continuously rnonitorthe detainee's c·ondition
throughout any interrogation using enhanced techniques, and the interrogation team will stop the
use ofparticular techniques or the interrogation altogether lithe detainee's medical or
psychological condition indicates that the detainee might suffer signWcant physical or mental
harm. See Techniques at 5-6. OMS has, in fact, prohibited the use ofcertain techniques in the
interrogations of certain detainees: .See id.at 5. Thus, no technique is used in tbtlinterrogation
detainee----no matter how valuable the information the CIA believes the detainee has~if
medic·a! andpsychologica!evall.lations or oIigoing monitoring suggest thafthG detainee is
to suffer serious bann. Careful records are kept bfeach interrogation, which ensures
accountability and allows for ongoing evaluation of the efficacy of each technique and its
potential for any unintended or inappropriate results. See id,

 

[JakeStarkey]

No problem at all with my sense of right from wrong. I think the dirtbag terrorists have a big problem in that department though. They have no problem killing anyone at any time.

As for my moral code. No problem with that either. I have no problem wishing all the dirtbag terrorists dead and this country and the people in it safe. If waterboarding helps in achieving that goal, then waterboard away.

You think waterboarding is torture. I do not. Thats the difference between you and me.

I wonder what you would do if terrorists had members of your family and were going to kill them in 2 hours and the authorities captured one of them. I wonder what you would do to get the info to save your family????

Moral delima??? Not for me.

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

The problem is your morals.

You would rather thousands of americans die agonizing deaths than get 3 arch terrorists wet

Not at all, trollmeister. Thousands of Americans didn't die and wouldn't have died with or without the torture. You want to do it, period. You are the same as one of Osama's killers. No difference.

 

[CMike]

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

The problem is your morals.

You would rather thousands of americans die agonizing deaths than get 3 arch terrorists wet

Not at all, trollmeister. Thousands of Americans didn't die and wouldn't have died with or without the torture. You want to do it, period. You are the same as one of Osama's killers. No difference.

Because of the waterboarding two major terrorist attacks were thwarted

1) The crash of a plane into a LA building. Thousands of americans would have either died in the plane crash or be burned in the fire

and

2) A "dirty bomb" exploding in Washington D.C. Numerous americans would have been murdered from radiation.

However, your side lacks the morals to care more about them then the comfort of 3 arch terrorists.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Other intelligence revealed these plans. That's why the toids tortured their captives. You are immoral, Mike, and if you had been in my unit, I would have run you out of the Army for that thinking. When one is fighting the enemy, I don't want him in my unit as well.

 

[CMike]

Other intelligence revealed these plans. That's why the toids tortured their captives. You are immoral, Mike, and if you had been in my unit, I would have run you out of the Army for that thinking. When one is fighting the enemy, I don't want him in my unit as well.

Prove it.

Documentation vs liberal bullshit.

You are immoral, because you would let all those innocent americans perish, and cause their families to grieve, for no good reason, other than just being an idiot.

What unit were you in. The Al Qaida mountain or cave division?

So far all your opinions are based on giving terrorists more rights to the detriment of the safety of americans.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The difference the other is moral, you are not, Claudette. Your morals are the same as those whom you condemn.

The problem is your morals.

You would rather thousands of americans die agonizing deaths than get 3 arch terrorists wet

Not at all, trollmeister. Thousands of Americans didn't die and wouldn't have died with or without the torture. You want to do it, period. You are the same as one of Osama's killers. No difference.

Are you also now calling the CIA liars? Reports say that large scale 9-11 type attacks were thwarted. Because of the Waterboarding.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The problem is your morals.

You would rather thousands of americans die agonizing deaths than get 3 arch terrorists wet

Not at all, trollmeister. Thousands of Americans didn't die and wouldn't have died with or without the torture. You want to do it, period. You are the same as one of Osama's killers. No difference.

Are you also now calling the CIA liars? Reports say that large scale 9-11 type attacks were thwarted. Because of the Waterboarding.

Let's see "all" of the intelligence, Ollie. You know as well that the CIA is political and serves its masters, not us. No, I do not automatically believe those reports.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Cmike simply can't handle that he is nothing more than the American version of an al quada terrorist.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Not at all, trollmeister. Thousands of Americans didn't die and wouldn't have died with or without the torture. You want to do it, period. You are the same as one of Osama's killers. No difference.

Are you also now calling the CIA liars? Reports say that large scale 9-11 type attacks were thwarted. Because of the Waterboarding.

Let's see "all" of the intelligence, Ollie. You know as well that the CIA is political and serves its masters, not us. No, I do not automatically believe those reports.

Figures

 

[CMike]

Here is a little taste of what would have happened had those 3 arch terrorists not been waterboarded

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WUB9lPK1qI]YouTube - Burned alive: Inside video from deadly party fire claiming over 100[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course it figures, Ollie. The CIA lies to us all the time. You served a long, long time in the Army, and if you ever worked with those folks you know what I am talking about. You were in signals, so I am betting you worked with them or their proxies at one time or another.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Here is a little taste of what would have happened had those 3 arch terrorists not been waterboarded

YouTube - Burned alive: Inside video from deadly party fire claiming over 100

Emotional demagoguery without corrobation is still nothing but emotionalism, cmike.