Botched Oklahoma Execution

[JoeB131]

[

A good, intelligent, moral people cannot possibly come up with the different answer. The facts are the facts and only a moron would suggest that fetus isn't a human life and thus does not deserve protection.

I understand there are many that don't recognize a fetus as a human being with rights, but those people, as I have said are not intelligent, moral or good.

Here's the problem with your moral arguments.

I grew up Catholic, and we got the whole nine-yards of the Fetus Porn from the nuns who showed us pictures of miscarriages and claimed they were abortions. and this was back in 1975, when Roe v. Wade was first decided and didn't seem set in stone.

The reality is that as long as a fetus has to be attached to a woman's uterus, it really, really is her choice.

Now, if you Wingnuts were really and truly serious about wanting less abortions, you'd support universal health care, you'd support strong worker rights, you'd come down like a ton of bricks on an employer like my ex-boss who fired employees when they got pregnant.

And you'd support the taxes on the rich to pay for all those unwanted babies.

But you don't.

You just wag your finger at women making a tough choice.

 

[Iceweasel]

most civilized countries no longer have a death penalty.

so, no, people don't want to be associated with it.

most countries will not extradite to us if a capital crime is charged.

the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent and diminishes us as s society. yes, there are times it feels morally satisfying. but the fact over 3 hundred death row inmates have been exonerated by the innocence project and the fact that it is disproportionately used along racial lines should be sufficient for us to get rid of it.

Most isn't all. And we have no obligation to do what most people do. The death penalty may not be a deterrent but that isn't why we have it. Prison and execution are punishments not learning lessons.

I'm all for making sure of guilt before they meet their punishment.

 

[JoeB131]

most civilized countries no longer have a death penalty.

so, no, people don't want to be associated with it.

most countries will not extradite to us if a capital crime is charged.

the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent and diminishes us as s society. yes, there are times it feels morally satisfying. but the fact over 3 hundred death row inmates have been exonerated by the innocence project and the fact that it is disproportionately used along racial lines should be sufficient for us to get rid of it.

Most isn't all. And we have no obligation to do what most people do. The death penalty may not be a deterrent but that isn't why we have it. Prison and execution are punishments not learning lessons.

I'm all for making sure of guilt before they meet their punishment.

Fair enough. But how do you do that with certainty.

In Illinois, we had the case of Rolando Cruz. He was sentenced to death TWICE for the murder of Jeanine Nicaraco, even though DuPage County police and States Attorney's knew another guy did it.

And they were halfway to convicting him a third time before a judge put an end to it.

Oh, not a one of those cops or lawyers lost their jobs.

 

[nodoginnafight]

most civilized countries no longer have a death penalty.

so, no, people don't want to be associated with it.

most countries will not extradite to us if a capital crime is charged.

the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent and diminishes us as s society. yes, there are times it feels morally satisfying. but the fact over 3 hundred death row inmates have been exonerated by the innocence project and the fact that it is disproportionately used along racial lines should be sufficient for us to get rid of it.

Most isn't all. And we have no obligation to do what most people do. The death penalty may not be a deterrent but that isn't why we have it. Prison and execution are punishments not learning lessons.

I'm all for making sure of guilt before they meet their punishment.

Fair enough. But how do you do that with certainty.

In Illinois, we had the case of Rolando Cruz. He was sentenced to death TWICE for the murder of Jeanine Nicaraco, even though DuPage County police and States Attorney's knew another guy did it.

And they were halfway to convicting him a third time before a judge put an end to it.

Oh, not a one of those cops or lawyers lost their jobs.

I despise the idea of executing people who are not guilty of the crime we are killing them for. But how many times would the wrong person get killed if outraged family members took "justice" into their own hands?

Look at this Oklahoma killer. Look what he did to his victim. Can't you understand the rage and the desire for vengeance that creates in the victim's family? The hope that the state will do the job, undoubtedly deters a lot of these family members from getting justice on their own. And they're gonna do that without a judge or jury, without access to evidence, and without regret. If that was my daughter, I could gleefully kill that guy. Did you hear what she went through before she died? I never met her before, and I am angry about it. Imagine if that was my daughter ...

I do have problems with the death penalty in general and with the way it is currently administered. But for the life of me, I can't come up with anything that I think would work any better.

 

[Vigilante]

Most isn't all. And we have no obligation to do what most people do. The death penalty may not be a deterrent but that isn't why we have it. Prison and execution are punishments not learning lessons.

I'm all for making sure of guilt before they meet their punishment.

Fair enough. But how do you do that with certainty.

In Illinois, we had the case of Rolando Cruz. He was sentenced to death TWICE for the murder of Jeanine Nicaraco, even though DuPage County police and States Attorney's knew another guy did it.

And they were halfway to convicting him a third time before a judge put an end to it.

Oh, not a one of those cops or lawyers lost their jobs.

I despise the idea of executing people who are not guilty of the crime we are killing them for. But how many times would the wrong person get killed if outraged family members took "justice" into their own hands?

Look at this Oklahoma killer. Look what he did to his victim. Can't you understand the rage and the desire for vengeance that creates in the victim's family? The hope that the state will do the job, undoubtedly deters a lot of these family members from getting justice on their own. And they're gonna do that without a judge or jury, without access to evidence, and without regret. If that was my daughter, I could gleefully kill that guy. Did you hear what she went through before she died? I never met her before, and I am angry about it. Imagine if that was my daughter ...

I do have problems with the death penalty in general and with the way it is currently administered. But for the life of me, I can't come up with anything that I think would work any better.

Joe only condones the murder of Jews.... preferably by Palestinians!

 

[alan1]

It is not the way he was supposed to be put down.

But there IS a pronounced poetry in the form of justice he received.

After shooting a teenage girl, the scumbag put her in a grave while she was still alive and buried her. What a fucking horrific thing to do to another person. What a terrifyingly horrible way to die.

The State was gonna put that fucking piece of shit down FAR more gently. But due to some foul-up, he ended up -- very much like his victim -- AWARE of what was happening as he was fucking dying.

Don't wanna get all atavistic here, but let's be real: it couldn't happen to a more worthy guy.

Fuck him.

True, but there is a damage to the State as well, here. A founding principle, literally, is that the State may not torture, or use death in such a horrific way as to shock citizens into compliance through fear, and that is principle that should be the same to both "conservatives" and "liberals."

That doesn't mean torture or cruel and unusual punishment won't happen in individual cases, because individuals under stress will go to lengths, and foulups happen.

But still, as a society we have to find a way to only execute those whose innocence is nearly impossible, and when we execute, do it as humanely as possible.

Accidents happen.
Even to scumbags.
There was no intent of cruel or unusual punishment towards Clayton Lockett, unlike his actions towards Stephanie Neiman.

http://kfor.com/2014/05/01/jurors-for-clayton-locketts-trial-remember-disturbing-taped-confession/

 

[1776]

The scumbag kidnapped, raped and killed a 19 year old woman over nothing....but we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he had a heart attack????

The shitstan is lucky the locals weren't allowed to tie him to 2 trucks and pull him apart, that should've been his punishment.

 

[alan1]

The foul up is that death penalty opponents have successfully persuaded the pharmaceutical makers to stop providing the chemicals that work. Therefore, states are forced to use chemicals that don't work very well. The goal is to end the death penalty because the lives of the killers are more worthwhile than the lives of their victims.

We can return to hanging, or firing squad. A killer by his acts, assume the risk that something might go wrong with the execution and he would face a longer and more painful death than he anticipated.

"successfully persuaded"?

most civilized countries no longer have a death penalty.

so, no, people don't want to be associated with it.

most countries will not extradite to us if a capital crime is charged.

the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent and diminishes us as s society. yes, there are times it feels morally satisfying. but the fact over 3 hundred death row inmates have been exonerated by the innocence project and the fact that it is disproportionately used along racial lines should be sufficient for us to get rid of it.

But is effective to remove the murderers that are a detriment to society. It is effective to remove their violent and destructive behavior from the gene pool.
I don't see you lining up to procreate murderers.

 

[HenryBHough]

The foul up is that death penalty opponents have successfully persuaded the pharmaceutical makers to stop providing the chemicals that work. Therefore, states are forced to use chemicals that don't work very well. The goal is to end the death penalty because the lives of the killers are more worthwhile than the lives of their victims.

We can return to hanging, or firing squad. A killer by his acts, assume the risk that something might go wrong with the execution and he would face a longer and more painful death than he anticipated.

"successfully persuaded"?

most civilized countries no longer have a death penalty.

so, no, people don't want to be associated with it.

most countries will not extradite to us if a capital crime is charged.

the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent and diminishes us as s society. yes, there are times it feels morally satisfying. but the fact over 3 hundred death row inmates have been exonerated by the innocence project and the fact that it is disproportionately used along racial lines should be sufficient for us to get rid of it.

But is effective to remove the murderers that are a detriment to society. It is effective to remove their violent and destructive behavior from the gene pool.
I don't see you lining up to procreate murderers.

For that to be effective we'd have to also eliminate any progeny those creatures may have left stalking the earth. I wouldn't be quite comfortable with that because some genes are recessive. But as a precautionary measure one might make a good argument.

 

[alan1]

"successfully persuaded"?

most civilized countries no longer have a death penalty.

so, no, people don't want to be associated with it.

most countries will not extradite to us if a capital crime is charged.

the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent and diminishes us as s society. yes, there are times it feels morally satisfying. but the fact over 3 hundred death row inmates have been exonerated by the innocence project and the fact that it is disproportionately used along racial lines should be sufficient for us to get rid of it.

But is effective to remove the murderers that are a detriment to society. It is effective to remove their violent and destructive behavior from the gene pool.
I don't see you lining up to procreate murderers.

For that to be effective we'd have to also eliminate any progeny those creatures may have left stalking the earth. I wouldn't be quite comfortable with that because some genes are recessive. But as a precautionary measure one might make a good argument.

I'm for preventing future progeny. I am for preventing that specific criminals potential for future murder.

 

[Locke11_21]

Fair enough. But how do you do that with certainty.

In Illinois, we had the case of Rolando Cruz. He was sentenced to death TWICE for the murder of Jeanine Nicaraco, even though DuPage County police and States Attorney's knew another guy did it.

And they were halfway to convicting him a third time before a judge put an end to it.

Oh, not a one of those cops or lawyers lost their jobs.

I despise the idea of executing people who are not guilty of the crime we are killing them for. But how many times would the wrong person get killed if outraged family members took "justice" into their own hands?

Look at this Oklahoma killer. Look what he did to his victim. Can't you understand the rage and the desire for vengeance that creates in the victim's family? The hope that the state will do the job, undoubtedly deters a lot of these family members from getting justice on their own. And they're gonna do that without a judge or jury, without access to evidence, and without regret. If that was my daughter, I could gleefully kill that guy. Did you hear what she went through before she died? I never met her before, and I am angry about it. Imagine if that was my daughter ...

I do have problems with the death penalty in general and with the way it is currently administered. But for the life of me, I can't come up with anything that I think would work any better.

Joe only condones the murder of Jews.... preferably by Palestinians!

Considering JoeB131 is a racist, he would also support the murder of every "Uncle Tom" as well.




As for the botched execution, how can it be botched if the pos is dead. I got a warm comforting feeling knowing he suffered some during his execution. He should have been executed the same way he murdered his vicitim...shot, then buried alive until he died.

No surprise that lefties sympathize with the scumbag and could care less about his victim, which is all the more proof that people with left-wing politics have a profound mental disorder.

 

[JFK_USA]

What happened in Oklahoma is abhorrent. That's cruel and unusual punishment and I hope the federal courts intervene to prevent the second execution from taking place.

The Death Penalty itself. I am a little anti-Death Penalty.

What people do to earn these death penalty sentences are egregious and wrong. However, is it right for the society to kill a human being for their actions? No. Here's my reasoning.

The act of vengeance is a human emotion. Society is run by humans but the entity itself isn't human. Therefore the entity of society shouldn't have any sort of emotion including vengeance. Because of that, a society shouldn't feel the need to "get even" for a human being's death. Life imprisonment in a maximum security prison should be suitable.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I despise the idea of executing people who are not guilty of the crime we are killing them for. But how many times would the wrong person get killed if outraged family members took "justice" into their own hands?

Look at this Oklahoma killer. Look what he did to his victim. Can't you understand the rage and the desire for vengeance that creates in the victim's family? The hope that the state will do the job, undoubtedly deters a lot of these family members from getting justice on their own. And they're gonna do that without a judge or jury, without access to evidence, and without regret. If that was my daughter, I could gleefully kill that guy. Did you hear what she went through before she died? I never met her before, and I am angry about it. Imagine if that was my daughter ...

I do have problems with the death penalty in general and with the way it is currently administered. But for the life of me, I can't come up with anything that I think would work any better.

The problem with your premise is that you seem to think there is no middle ground between "Letting them go free" and "execute the bastards".

We could lock them up for the rest of their lives in horrible conditions. That would work just fine.

 

[JoeB131]

[quot

Considering JoeB131 is a racist, he would also support the murder of every "Uncle Tom" as well.

As for the botched execution, how can it be botched if the pos is dead. I got a warm comforting feeling knowing he suffered some during his execution. He should have been executed the same way he murdered his vicitim...shot, then buried alive until he died.

No surprise that lefties sympathize with the scumbag and could care less about his victim, which is all the more proof that people with left-wing politics have a profound mental disorder.

Ahhhh, modern conservatives, getting joy out of the thought of human suffering.

Why am I not surprised?

No one disagrees this guy should have been punished, dipstick.

We just don't think the state should have the power to kill people. Especially when they disproportianately execute those who are poor who commit terrible crimes. When was the last time we executed a rich person?

I am amazed that you conservatives, who are usually against taxes and regulating pollution and other government control of our lives, really think the state is best qualified to decide who lives or dies.

 

[MamaMia]

[

I despise the idea of executing people who are not guilty of the crime we are killing them for. But how many times would the wrong person get killed if outraged family members took "justice" into their own hands?

Look at this Oklahoma killer. Look what he did to his victim. Can't you understand the rage and the desire for vengeance that creates in the victim's family? The hope that the state will do the job, undoubtedly deters a lot of these family members from getting justice on their own. And they're gonna do that without a judge or jury, without access to evidence, and without regret. If that was my daughter, I could gleefully kill that guy. Did you hear what she went through before she died? I never met her before, and I am angry about it. Imagine if that was my daughter ...

I do have problems with the death penalty in general and with the way it is currently administered. But for the life of me, I can't come up with anything that I think would work any better.

The problem with your premise is that you seem to think there is no middle ground between "Letting them go free" and "execute the bastards".

We could lock them up for the rest of their lives in horrible conditions. That would work just fine.

Why don't we just shoot them? No suffering involved and no more expense to the taxpayers.

 

[JoeB131]

[
The problem with your premise is that you seem to think there is no middle ground between "Letting them go free" and "execute the bastards".

We could lock them up for the rest of their lives in horrible conditions. That would work just fine.

Why don't we just shoot them? No suffering involved and no more expense to the taxpayers.

Because if you shoot the wrong guy, you can't unshoot him.

ANd here's the thing. Executing people is a lot more expensive than locking them up, because frankly, the day it is determined we executed the wrong guy, capital punishment is over.

So the states have to be very careful that they can at least plausibly claim they got the right guy.

Which means that these cases have to be litigated and relitigated again and again.

 

[Spoonman]

I wonder how many complain about the cost of having a baby given up at birth as a drain on our financial system, also complain about the cost of keeping a murderer incarcerated for life, some 50 years or longer?

It costs more to kill them, than to house them for life.

with the process liberal politicians have put in place, yes. but that is the problem with liberal policies in general. they cost way too much

 

[Geaux4it]

Sounds like we need to bring back 'Ole Sparky'

Not much goes wrong with that beast. Just add more water to the sponge and keep cranking up the juice.

-Geaux

 

[Missourian]

Sounds like we need to bring back 'Ole Sparky'

Not much goes wrong with that beast. Just add more water to the sponge and keep cranking up the juice.

-Geaux

"Blowing from a gun is a method of execution in which the victim is typically tied to the mouth of a cannon and the cannon is fired. George Carter Stent describes the process as follows:

The prisoner is generally tied to a gun with the upper part of the small of his back resting against the muzzle. When the gun is fired, his head is seen to go straight up into the air some 40 or fifty feet; the arms fly off right and left, high up in the air, and fall at, perhaps, a hundred yards distance; the legs drop to the ground beneath the muzzle of the gun; and the body is literally blown away altogether, not a vestige being seen[1]"

Blowing from a gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

 

[Geaux4it]

Sounds like we need to bring back 'Ole Sparky'

Not much goes wrong with that beast. Just add more water to the sponge and keep cranking up the juice.

-Geaux

"Blowing from a gun is a method of execution in which the victim is typically tied to the mouth of a cannon and the cannon is fired. George Carter Stent describes the process as follows:

The prisoner is generally tied to a gun with the upper part of the small of his back resting against the muzzle. When the gun is fired, his head is seen to go straight up into the air some 40 or fifty feet; the arms fly off right and left, high up in the air, and fall at, perhaps, a hundred yards distance; the legs drop to the ground beneath the muzzle of the gun; and the body is literally blown away altogether, not a vestige being seen[1]"

Blowing from a gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​