Breaking: Charleston SC, white male shoots 8 people at Souths oldest black church

[jillian]

maybe. but there's no evidence of that yet. it also doesn't absolve him particularly where he announced his intentions in advance.

i'm not a big proponent of the death penalty. but i'm pretty sure, particularly now that he's confessed, that the good people of Charleston are going to fry him.

I agree that the drugs don't excuse his behavior.

But that doesn't change the fact that we need to start trying to figure out if the drugs ARE the cause in these cases, and I'm sick of these people who every time you suggest drugs are the cause they start in with the "you're just trying to make excuses for the white kid"

I'm not saying you say that Jill. I'm just responding to your post.

It's no different than saying poverty is what causes black crime to be so high, but that doesn't absolve the poor black of guilt.

Same concept.

bigotry was the cause.

drugs may have emboldened him but aren't the precipitating factor. while I understand your issue, your focus is in the wrong place because when he was sober, he told his friend he wanted to shoot black people.

Was he sober though Jillian?

Or more correctly , was his brain permanently fucked up by whatever drugs he was on?

I don't think drugs embolden these kids, I think they make them go haywire.

There are a LOT of bigots out there who never hurt anyone. So just saying "bigotry is the cause" is a little simplistic.

sorry folks----"under the influence" is not----as far as I know ------a defense. I have been drunk in my lifetime------but I never killed anyone

bigotry was the cause.

drugs may have emboldened him but aren't the precipitating factor. while I understand your issue, your focus is in the wrong place because when he was sober, he told his friend he wanted to shoot black people.

Was he sober though Jillian?

Or more correctly , was his brain permanently fucked up by whatever drugs he was on?

I don't think drugs embolden these kids, I think they make them go haywire.

There are a LOT of bigots out there who never hurt anyone. So just saying "bigotry is the cause" is a little simplistic.

he wasn't a kid. he was a 21 year old man.

and it isn't drugs. it's the racial hatred that is engrained in some people from birth.

He's younger than my sons, that makes him a kid to me.
That doesn't mean he was literally a child

And I will argue again that there are a TON of racists out there who never hurt anyone.

Also, what is your reasoning for all the other white morons who have went on mass murder sprees where the victims were not exclusively black, and or no racist statements were made by the perpetrator?

See, you want to focus on this ONE incident , rather than looking at them as a whole.

On the other hand, I think they all sprout from the same reason. Middle class Americans who have a child who has a few issues and the first thing they do is load that child up on drugs , out of sight out of mind , well at least until they start killing people.

you make an interesting point------and then go off on "all dem drugs"-------the interesting point being -----"why all the mass murders"-------which do seem to
be the work of very young white males----
WTF is going on in the USA? It's like an epidemic

Are you illiterate? I've quite clearly stated that the drugs do not excuse him from the consequences of his actions.

again calling people smarter than you stupid?

you're making excuses. stop.

until you stop, I will keep making fun of what an imbecile you are.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I agree that the drugs don't excuse his behavior.

But that doesn't change the fact that we need to start trying to figure out if the drugs ARE the cause in these cases, and I'm sick of these people who every time you suggest drugs are the cause they start in with the "you're just trying to make excuses for the white kid"

I'm not saying you say that Jill. I'm just responding to your post.

It's no different than saying poverty is what causes black crime to be so high, but that doesn't absolve the poor black of guilt.

Same concept.

bigotry was the cause.

drugs may have emboldened him but aren't the precipitating factor. while I understand your issue, your focus is in the wrong place because when he was sober, he told his friend he wanted to shoot black people.

Was he sober though Jillian?

Or more correctly , was his brain permanently fucked up by whatever drugs he was on?

I don't think drugs embolden these kids, I think they make them go haywire.

There are a LOT of bigots out there who never hurt anyone. So just saying "bigotry is the cause" is a little simplistic.

sorry folks----"under the influence" is not----as far as I know ------a defense. I have been drunk in my lifetime------but I never killed anyone

Was he sober though Jillian?

Or more correctly , was his brain permanently fucked up by whatever drugs he was on?

I don't think drugs embolden these kids, I think they make them go haywire.

There are a LOT of bigots out there who never hurt anyone. So just saying "bigotry is the cause" is a little simplistic.

he wasn't a kid. he was a 21 year old man.

and it isn't drugs. it's the racial hatred that is engrained in some people from birth.

He's younger than my sons, that makes him a kid to me.
That doesn't mean he was literally a child

And I will argue again that there are a TON of racists out there who never hurt anyone.

Also, what is your reasoning for all the other white morons who have went on mass murder sprees where the victims were not exclusively black, and or no racist statements were made by the perpetrator?

See, you want to focus on this ONE incident , rather than looking at them as a whole.

On the other hand, I think they all sprout from the same reason. Middle class Americans who have a child who has a few issues and the first thing they do is load that child up on drugs , out of sight out of mind , well at least until they start killing people.

you make an interesting point------and then go off on "all dem drugs"-------the interesting point being -----"why all the mass murders"-------which do seem to
be the work of very young white males----
WTF is going on in the USA? It's like an epidemic

Are you illiterate? I've quite clearly stated that the drugs do not excuse him from the consequences of his actions.

again calling people smarter than you stupid?

you're making excuses. stop.

until you stop, I will keep making fun of what an imbecile you are.

Um let me see If I have this straight

I post

" I think drugs made him do this, but that does't excuse his behavior"

s/he responds with

"stop making excuses for him"

and you conclude that s/he is smarter than I am?

I clearly said the drugs do NOT excuse him which is exactly the opposite of what the other poster accused me of saying.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't think Haley can simply make the decision herself to not put up the state flag.

But she could take a stand against it. Only, to save her political life, she never will...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

If she had guts she would personally take it down out of respect for the victims

You guys are being ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is Nikki Haley (who made a great speech by the way) decrying racism while her state is one of the last remaining bastions of the Confederate Flag. South Carolina is also one of fivew states that does not have hate crime legislation

 

[irosie91]

maybe. but there's no evidence of that yet. it also doesn't absolve him particularly where he announced his intentions in advance.

i'm not a big proponent of the death penalty. but i'm pretty sure, particularly now that he's confessed, that the good people of Charleston are going to fry him.

I agree that the drugs don't excuse his behavior.

But that doesn't change the fact that we need to start trying to figure out if the drugs ARE the cause in these cases, and I'm sick of these people who every time you suggest drugs are the cause they start in with the "you're just trying to make excuses for the white kid"

I'm not saying you say that Jill. I'm just responding to your post.

It's no different than saying poverty is what causes black crime to be so high, but that doesn't absolve the poor black of guilt.

Same concept.

bigotry was the cause.

drugs may have emboldened him but aren't the precipitating factor. while I understand your issue, your focus is in the wrong place because when he was sober, he told his friend he wanted to shoot black people.

Was he sober though Jillian?

Or more correctly , was his brain permanently fucked up by whatever drugs he was on?

I don't think drugs embolden these kids, I think they make them go haywire.

There are a LOT of bigots out there who never hurt anyone. So just saying "bigotry is the cause" is a little simplistic.

sorry folks----"under the influence" is not----as far as I know ------a defense. I have been drunk in my lifetime------but I never killed anyone

bigotry was the cause.

drugs may have emboldened him but aren't the precipitating factor. while I understand your issue, your focus is in the wrong place because when he was sober, he told his friend he wanted to shoot black people.

Was he sober though Jillian?

Or more correctly , was his brain permanently fucked up by whatever drugs he was on?

I don't think drugs embolden these kids, I think they make them go haywire.

There are a LOT of bigots out there who never hurt anyone. So just saying "bigotry is the cause" is a little simplistic.

he wasn't a kid. he was a 21 year old man.

and it isn't drugs. it's the racial hatred that is engrained in some people from birth.

He's younger than my sons, that makes him a kid to me.
That doesn't mean he was literally a child

And I will argue again that there are a TON of racists out there who never hurt anyone.

Also, what is your reasoning for all the other white morons who have went on mass murder sprees where the victims were not exclusively black, and or no racist statements were made by the perpetrator?

See, you want to focus on this ONE incident , rather than looking at them as a whole.

On the other hand, I think they all sprout from the same reason. Middle class Americans who have a child who has a few issues and the first thing they do is load that child up on drugs , out of sight out of mind , well at least until they start killing people.

you make an interesting point------and then go off on "all dem drugs"-------the interesting point being -----"why all the mass murders"-------which do seem to
be the work of very young white males----
WTF is going on in the USA? It's like an epidemic

Are you illiterate? I've quite clearly stated that the drugs do not excuse him from the consequences of his actions.

I am quite literate and responded to this
statement >>>"On the other hand, I think they all sprout from the same reason. Middle class Americans who have a child who has a few issues and the first thing they do is load that child up on drugs , out of sight out of mind , well at least until they start killing people." -----which seems to be "the same reason" is absent parents who drug
their kids --------you described it as a "reason" ---------I did not describe your
"reason" as either an excuse or a cause----
YOU described it as a "cause"

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I don't think Haley can simply make the decision herself to not put up the state flag.

But she could take a stand against it. Only, to save her political life, she never will...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

If she had guts she would personally take it down out of respect for the victims

You guys are being ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is Nikki Haley (who made a great speech by the way) decrying racism while her state is one of the last remaining bastions of the Confederate Flag. South Carolina is also one of fivew states that does not have hate crime legislation

What is ridiculous is pointing fingers directly at her. The problems in that state with racism can be spread around, and go back hundreds of years before this particular governor was even born.

She made a good heartfelt speech. Leave it at that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Because most people understand that it was a fictional show.

The "Duke boys" were constantly breaking the law too. Should we say, since it was accepted on tv that we should allow people to ignore the law?

standard robin hood behavior, a well established cliche.

flying the confederate flag, not so much.

if it was as offensive as libs would have us believe today, then that show as done, would have never been approved, and if developed and shown would never have been accepted by the viewing audience.

instead it was a nation wide hit tv show.

because the american people of 1979 knew that the flag was a harmless symbol of regional southern pride.

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

 

[Correll]

I don't think Haley can simply make the decision herself to not put up the state flag.

But she could take a stand against it. Only, to save her political life, she never will...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

If she had guts she would personally take it down out of respect for the victims

You guys are being ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is Nikki Haley (who made a great speech by the way) decrying racism while her state is one of the last remaining bastions of the Confederate Flag. South Carolina is also one of fivew states that does not have hate crime legislation

it is only ridiculous if you reject all other views of the confederate flag not only as wrong, but as not existing at all.

which is disproven by the dukes of hazzard great nationwide popularity in the 80s.

 

[Correll]

standard robin hood behavior, a well established cliche.

flying the confederate flag, not so much.

if it was as offensive as libs would have us believe today, then that show as done, would have never been approved, and if developed and shown would never have been accepted by the viewing audience.

instead it was a nation wide hit tv show.

because the american people of 1979 knew that the flag was a harmless symbol of regional southern pride.

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

nothing in those posts contradicts my statements.

if you have a point to make, use words.

 

[Statistikhengst]

What makes hate crime law racist, is the laws attempt to set the interest of one race above the interests of others.

FYI: such is the nature of Relativism.

But this does prove the foolish nature of subjectivism ... And why it can never serve justice.

seems to me "hate crime" ----should not be overused----but it is---generally---a good idea to have such a designation----I do not understand how it turns out to have an effect on penalty.

The flag was accepted by the KKK

both the Nazi flag and the Confederate flag
are acceptable in comedies. Clowns can wear them on their asses-------but they should not be displayed over US government buildings. They are offensive to ENOUGH people. Did the VICHY government in france during world war II have a flag?

the flag was not presented that way in the dukes of hazard. it was presented as a harmless symbol of regional pride.

SO? that was a long time ago. How do YOU KNOW no one WAS offended. ---not that it matters. The show itself was a raucous comedy. ----the flag could just
as well be placed on the ass of a clown.
If you are trying to convince me that the DUKES OF HAZARD was all about
"southern regional pride"-----I might vomit.
It was so silly that I was concerned that it offended southerners back then

because i was alive at the time and i not only watched the show but i recall the discussion and reception the show received.

it was widely discussed as the "breakout" of southern culture into the mainstream. there was no discussion of the flag at all.

there was discussion that is was brainless action with nothing but car chases and hot chicks in short shorts, but that is not relevant to this discussion.

no. the show was not about southern pride. i have said nothing to indicate that.

the southern setting and culture was simply flavor, with no message of any type.

right----just as there would be no discussion
about a Nazi flag if it shows up in raucous
comedy out of germany

Only, because of BGB para. 130-131, that will never happen.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[rightwinger]

standard robin hood behavior, a well established cliche.

flying the confederate flag, not so much.

if it was as offensive as libs would have us believe today, then that show as done, would have never been approved, and if developed and shown would never have been accepted by the viewing audience.

instead it was a nation wide hit tv show.

because the american people of 1979 knew that the flag was a harmless symbol of regional southern pride.

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

I can see why South Carolina loves it so....

But why do they act surprised when the racists they have been coddling start to pull the trigger?

 

[irosie91]

standard robin hood behavior, a well established cliche.

flying the confederate flag, not so much.

if it was as offensive as libs would have us believe today, then that show as done, would have never been approved, and if developed and shown would never have been accepted by the viewing audience.

instead it was a nation wide hit tv show.

because the american people of 1979 knew that the flag was a harmless symbol of regional southern pride.

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

are those pictures CURRENT stuff? do you know which state ?????

 

[rightwinger]

I don't think Haley can simply make the decision herself to not put up the state flag.

But she could take a stand against it. Only, to save her political life, she never will...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

If she had guts she would personally take it down out of respect for the victims

You guys are being ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is Nikki Haley (who made a great speech by the way) decrying racism while her state is one of the last remaining bastions of the Confederate Flag. South Carolina is also one of fivew states that does not have hate crime legislation

it is only ridiculous if you reject all other views of the confederate flag not only as wrong, but as not existing at all.

which is disproven by the dukes of hazzard great nationwide popularity in the 80s.

And in the 60s we had segregated water fountains.....times change

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

nothing in those posts contradicts my statements.

if you have a point to make, use words.

Do you honestly believe the Dukes of Hazard defense for the flag being flown at the statehouse is adequate given it's other uses?
You are ridiculous.

 

[Correll]

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

I can see why South Carolina loves it so....

But why do they act surprised when the racists they have been coddling start to pull the trigger?

what in those photos justifies such an idiotic statement?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Please stop with the "Confederate flag is OK because the Duke boys had one" argument

It really makes you look like a moron

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

are those pictures CURRENT stuff? do you know which state ?????

Does it matter? That is what the flag represents.

 

[irosie91]

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

nothing in those posts contradicts my statements.

if you have a point to make, use words.

Do you honestly believe the Dukes of Hazard defense for the flag being flown at the statehouse is adequate given it's other uses?
You are ridiculous.

my question for CORRELL please answer "yes" or "no" or "MYOB" ---
if put to a vote-----how would you vote---
on "confederate flag flown in front of
my state capitol building"

 

[Correll]

But she could take a stand against it. Only, to save her political life, she never will...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

If she had guts she would personally take it down out of respect for the victims

You guys are being ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is Nikki Haley (who made a great speech by the way) decrying racism while her state is one of the last remaining bastions of the Confederate Flag. South Carolina is also one of fivew states that does not have hate crime legislation

it is only ridiculous if you reject all other views of the confederate flag not only as wrong, but as not existing at all.

which is disproven by the dukes of hazzard great nationwide popularity in the 80s.

And in the 60s we had segregated water fountains.....times change

you libs claim that by flying the flag people are celebrating racism and slavery and treason

and you reject the idea that there is any other way of looking at it.


i have demonstrated that, within living memory, that the view you deny exists, was the conventional wisdom.


this thus smashes your lib insistence of equating the confederate flag with racism.

 

[Correll]

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

are those pictures CURRENT stuff? do you know which state ?????

Does it matter? That is what the flag represents.

says you.

 

[irosie91]

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

are those pictures CURRENT stuff? do you know which state ?????

Does it matter? That is what the flag represents.

I agree with you ----I wondered in what state and when all that KKK stuff was going on.

 

[Correll]

bullshit.


it's a historical fact of the flag being accepted by the nation as a whole in recent memory.

this disproves your lib narrative of blacks and/or americans being soooooo offended by it because of something that happened in the past, because this offense was not present as recently as the 80s.

And in 1920 the swastika was still largely a religious symbol.

The confederate flag is a symbol of racism and hate. Whether it started out that way or was portrayed that way in a 70s sitcom is irrelevant.

People all over the nation today see it as a symbol of hate and racism.

the 1920s was before wwii.

the 1980s were after the civil war and the era of desegregation.

the confederate flag was accepted for generations, upto and past the 1980s as a harmless symbol of southern regional pride.

Hmmm.........

nothing in those posts contradicts my statements.

if you have a point to make, use words.

Do you honestly believe the Dukes of Hazard defense for the flag being flown at the statehouse is adequate given it's other uses?
You are ridiculous.

you are ridiculous. the south is bigger than the klan. the south gets to define the flag, not the klan.