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Heres all we're saying. Between 1950 and 2000 we had high paying manufacturing union labor middle class jobs. We allowed all those jobs to go to China mexico and everywhere else. I know that benefitted the rich and the rest of the world but it didn't help america.And I've told you that it's up to you to earn what you need to pay your bills. If your no skill job isn't paying you enough then you can get a second job or learn a skill that will warrant higher payDefine fair
I've asked you guys for a long time to put a number on what you think is a decent livable wage for average American Workers in today's America. You guys always duck & run. What do you think an average American can survive on today? Take a shot, throw a number out there.
Our gov has a responsibility to look out for the masses. If not capitalism will have us grateful for $5 a day.
It is then same type of question liberals will never answer like:Still no explanation what livable wage is. Anyone?
When discussing then school system:
How much money do The schools need?
The poor have smart cell phones, 50 inch T.V.s , a/c but for some reason god only knows they can not get any ID to vote.
They think in there strange minds they can force the higher labor cost On to the stockholders or CEOs
I've actually asked the question many times here. And it's usually the Corporate-bootlickers who duck & run from the question. I've asked for you guys to put some numbers on it. What's a decent livable wage for an average American Worker these days. I've thrown a few numbers out there. I said possibly about $11 - $15 an hr. How bout you?
What do you care if someone is rich if they did it legally and honestly?
Still no explanation what livable wage is. Anyone?
You right wingers sure are confused about this number aren't ya?
A "livable wage" is earnings great enough that the worker does not qualify for direct government assistance ( SNAP, housing allowance, heat allowance etc) at any level.
The other number is "poverty wages". Those people earn so little they do qualify for all those government benefits,
Those people do not make a "livable wage".
Hope that helps you.
Why are you faggots always so ignorant and redneckish???
Fucking morons have never heard of Google??
When you enter proper search terms, you get intelligent results ...................
Define : Living Wage
Search Results
- DEFINITION of 'Living Wage' A theoretical wage level that allows the earner to afford adequate shelter, food and the other necessities of life. The living wage should be substantial enough to ensure that no more than 30% of it needs to be spent on housing.
- Living Wage Definition | Investopedia
Terms Beginning With L Investopedialiving_wage.asp
Make sure you note the fucking term "THEORETICAL" before you make any more moronic statements ........................
The poverty threshold, or poverty line, is the minimum level of income deemed adequate in a particular country.
No relevance to this conversation at all, just a fucking buzz word thrown out to elicit sympathy ........................
Grow the fuck up, join a real conversation with out all your faggot bull shit ....................................
Still no explanation what livable wage is. Anyone?
You right wingers sure are confused about this number aren't ya?
A "livable wage" is earnings great enough that the worker does not qualify for direct government assistance ( SNAP, housing allowance, heat allowance etc) at any level.
The other number is "poverty wages". Those people earn so little they do qualify for all those government benefits,
Those people do not make a "livable wage".
Hope that helps you.
Why are you faggots always so ignorant and redneckish???
Fucking morons have never heard of Google??
When you enter proper search terms, you get intelligent results ...................
Define : Living Wage
Search Results
- DEFINITION of 'Living Wage' A theoretical wage level that allows the earner to afford adequate shelter, food and the other necessities of life. The living wage should be substantial enough to ensure that no more than 30% of it needs to be spent on housing.
- Living Wage Definition | Investopedia
Terms Beginning With L Investopedialiving_wage.asp
Make sure you note the fucking term "THEORETICAL" before you make any more moronic statements ........................
The poverty threshold, or poverty line, is the minimum level of income deemed adequate in a particular country.
No relevance to this conversation at all, just a fucking buzz word thrown out to elicit sympathy ........................
Grow the fuck up, join a real conversation with out all your faggot bull shit ....................................
So what do you think is a decent livable wage for an average American Worker today? Just throw some numbers out there. Forget the Politics and loyal defense of Corporations.
Just put a number out there that you think is decent wage for an average American Worker. I already threw some numbers out there. I said between $11 - $15 an hr is a decent start. Now your turn.
The entire concept of mandating a 'living wage' is based on ignorance and wishful thinking. Those supporting it simply don't understand how the value of a given job is resolved.
It's not determined by the employer, nor the employee. It's decided by society, by all of us, as an aggregate of the economic decisions we make on a daily basis. And some of you can't accept the fact that we've decided that some jobs simply aren't worth a "living wage". In response to that uncomfortable fact, you believe you can change it by passing a law. You think that you can simply slap a different number on a given job and society will suddenly change it's view of the relative value of that job.
But reality doesn't work that way. Minimum wage laws don't make low-paying jobs worth more. They just make them illegal.
You are either a child or an ignorant low skilled worker, one of the two, I stop Production In fact any of my operators can do the same if we are making crap, but then again we dont work in a union shit hole plant where no one gives a fuck except a pay check.The UAW did not design the shitty cars people don't want. The UAW worked their ass off building them the way corporate told them to & they were priced cheaper than the foreign labels people wanted. Corporate who designed poor mileage vehicles & cut out the $10 transmission oil cooler causing GM transmissions to fail rapidly. It was corporates decision to use shitty ignition switches that kill people & drive away buyers. The workers did not slap the cars together wrong, leave off parts or not tighten up bolts, they built the vehicles to the exact specifications they were instructed to. The UAW did not cause GM to fail or raid their pension funds. That was the golden boys at the top that destroyed GM. GM's golden boy CEO Rick Wagoner took $63.3 million to destroy the company, but you retards believe the UAW did it, because your masters told you so.Yeah the big 3 who need to be bailed out on a regular basis with tax payer money.
You get all whiny about people who work part time MW jobs getting food stamps but say nothing of the government bailout of the UAW.
We have a good way to determine what a minimum wage should be. We allow the federal government to determine a minimum wage. That gets passed on to the state government to make adjustments if the state wishes. Finally, we allow county, town and city governments to make further adjustment the way Seattle did. Seattle decided to implement a incremental wage increase in their city. It pissed off some national bloggers and so an article was written claiming restaurants were closing all over Seattle. Even though media attacked the article as being a total misrepresentation and lie, there are still some indoctrinated right wingers who refuse to acknowledge the truth. Over 1500 post and we still have not heard or seen the name of a specific restaurant that closed in Seattle due to increased minimum wage.
The entire concept of mandating a 'living wage' is based on ignorance and wishful thinking. Those supporting it simply don't understand how the value of a given job is resolved.
It's not determined by the employer, nor the employee. It's decided by society, by all of us, as an aggregate of the economic decisions we make on a daily basis. And some of you can't accept the fact that we've decided that some jobs simply aren't worth a "living wage". In response to that uncomfortable fact, you believe you can change it by passing a law. You think that you can simply slap a different number on a given job and society will suddenly change it's view of the relative value of that job.
But reality doesn't work that way. Minimum wage laws don't make low-paying jobs worth more. They just make them illegal.
This is brilliant.
Yesterday I went to taco bell to get 2 taco for $2.12. When I saw 3.15 on the screen I cancelled the order. I need to open a Del taco up next to taco bell. Competition is good.Pay more they'll smile.No we don't...I can use the self checkout and bag my own groceries. As matter of fact, I much prefer to use the self checkout. It saves me time.They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.
You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?
And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.
So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag
You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.
Now there is a grovery store where the cashiers are generally nice people and are well trained..And guess what? This particular tore pays more than the other chains.
Gee I wonder why?....is it because the store management feels their workers are entitled to higher wages? No....This chain is much more selective in choosing who gets to work there. The employees are expected to have certain customer service skills going into the employment interview. Higher skill level, better pay. See how this works?
Yup. A happy prosperous worker makes for a better productive worker.
Is minimum wage now communism? You right wing idiots.The entire concept of mandating a 'living wage' is based on ignorance and wishful thinking. Those supporting it simply don't understand how the value of a given job is resolved.
It's not determined by the employer, nor the employee. It's decided by society, by all of us, as an aggregate of the economic decisions we make on a daily basis. And some of you can't accept the fact that we've decided that some jobs simply aren't worth a "living wage". In response to that uncomfortable fact, you believe you can change it by passing a law. You think that you can simply slap a different number on a given job and society will suddenly change it's view of the relative value of that job.
But reality doesn't work that way. Minimum wage laws don't make low-paying jobs worth more. They just make them illegal.
This is brilliant.
and we must never forget that the liberal lacks the IQ to understand any aspect of capitalism so the minimum wage is just one of 1000 soviet interventions he would employ if he could.
You would if you lived in Bad Axe, MIWalmart has already solved its pay-raise dilemma. It will now hire less employees to man the stores. So if you think you can't find an employees to help ya out now in Walmart? Just wait, it's gonna get even worse.
I mean, Walmart's customer service was already the worst. So how much worse can it get? Yikes. It was a nice PR stunt though. I gotta give em that.
You never could find a Walmart employee to help you out that's why they get MW
That's on Walmart. Shitty slave wages usually result in shitty depressed slave workers.
And people who shop at Walmart don't care.
They go there for the low prices not the excellent service.
Spot On. They don't mind human excrement on the floor in front of the Deli. They just step around it like it never happened, and continue on buying their cheap shitty Chinese products. Crazy mutant mofos.
I would never buy meat at a Walmart.
Passing laws through three levels of legislation, approval by three levels of Executive administrations and validated by multiple levels of the judicial branches is a shitty way to make laws according to you? Sounds like you just hate how democracy works and America in general.We have a good way to determine what a minimum wage should be. We allow the federal government to determine a minimum wage. That gets passed on to the state government to make adjustments if the state wishes. Finally, we allow county, town and city governments to make further adjustment the way Seattle did. Seattle decided to implement a incremental wage increase in their city. It pissed off some national bloggers and so an article was written claiming restaurants were closing all over Seattle. Even though media attacked the article as being a total misrepresentation and lie, there are still some indoctrinated right wingers who refuse to acknowledge the truth. Over 1500 post and we still have not heard or seen the name of a specific restaurant that closed in Seattle due to increased minimum wage.
Clearly, the phrase "good way" means something very different on your planet than it does on Earth. On Earth, this would be described by the phrase "shitty way".
Should slave labor be OK in a libertarian society?Heres all we're saying. Between 1950 and 2000 we had high paying manufacturing union labor middle class jobs. We allowed all those jobs to go to China mexico and everywhere else. I know that benefitted the rich and the rest of the world but it didn't help america.And I've told you that it's up to you to earn what you need to pay your bills. If your no skill job isn't paying you enough then you can get a second job or learn a skill that will warrant higher payI've asked you guys for a long time to put a number on what you think is a decent livable wage for average American Workers in today's America. You guys always duck & run. What do you think an average American can survive on today? Take a shot, throw a number out there.
Our gov has a responsibility to look out for the masses. If not capitalism will have us grateful for $5 a day.
It is then same type of question liberals will never answer like:Still no explanation what livable wage is. Anyone?
When discussing then school system:
How much money do The schools need?
The poor have smart cell phones, 50 inch T.V.s , a/c but for some reason god only knows they can not get any ID to vote.
They think in there strange minds they can force the higher labor cost On to the stockholders or CEOs
I've actually asked the question many times here. And it's usually the Corporate-bootlickers who duck & run from the question. I've asked for you guys to put some numbers on it. What's a decent livable wage for an average American Worker these days. I've thrown a few numbers out there. I said possibly about $11 - $15 an hr. How bout you?
Ah, yes. "I have decided that it's the government's job to mandate wages, so you must argue with me from a position of what that wage should be, rather than whether there should be any such thing at all."
Not surprising, really. The only hope you have of winning an argument is if you're both sides of it.
How is the value of a given job determined?The tax payer is the beneficiary to the wage increase.
Well, yeah. That's exactly what's going on. We're hoping to 'draft' employers to help pay for the social safety net. Setting aside the scapegoating aspect of that, it won't work. The value of a given job isn't something that can be changed by decree.
Ahh... well, that's the question, isn't it? And I don't think most MW supporters have given it much thought. Because when you do, you realize it's not something you can change by waving a wand - or passing a law. Value is, of course, subjective. Everyone values different things in different amounts. But in a market environment, value resolves to an aggregate of the values all the participants in the market. In other words, we all decide what the value of the jobs and services we utilize are worth, by our daily economic decisions.
The fact that so many of you don't want to acknowledge is that, as a society, we - in the purest aggregate expression of our values - have decided that some jobs aren't worth a "living wage". We might be willing to pay a little for them, but they really aren't worth very much to us. If they cost much more, we can do without. If fast food costs much more, many of us will choose to flip our own burgers.
If we try to fight society's verdict with legal mandates, the market will simply adjust to "flow" around whatever obstacles the law injects. We'll either raise other wages and prices around the new artificial minimum (the manager is still going to make more than the dishwasher) or choose to do without the low value jobs. Probably some combination of the two. But in the end, we still won't value the jobs any more. And people still won't be able to make a living on them.
The city with input from business has determined a certain minimum wage should be paid to insure safety and fairness to the general public and employees. If you think there is some scheme to draft employers to help employers help pay for a social safety net in some unfair way, it is up to you to organize others who agree with you and change the law.
That's not the way civil rights are supposed to work. We're not at the mercy of pure majority rule. If we think minority groups are being singled out for unequal treatment under the law, we have an obligation to strike down such laws - regardless of how much organized support they may have.
Your post assumes that employers and their staff are in an equal market position so wages will automatically adjust to appropriate levels.
What part of the word never did you not understand?You would if you lived in Bad Axe, MIYou never could find a Walmart employee to help you out that's why they get MW
That's on Walmart. Shitty slave wages usually result in shitty depressed slave workers.
And people who shop at Walmart don't care.
They go there for the low prices not the excellent service.
Spot On. They don't mind human excrement on the floor in front of the Deli. They just step around it like it never happened, and continue on buying their cheap shitty Chinese products. Crazy mutant mofos.
I would never buy meat at a Walmart.
Don't do business with Washington or travel there. It's a State that respects its Workers. There's always dirty shitholes like Mississippi, that don't mind treating their Workers like shit. Problem solved. You're welcome.
Yup it is trickle up poor, the manager is now making minimum wage, he wont get a $7 dollar an hour wage the profit margins are slim in fast food. He just got fucked, his purchasing power just went way down, That's why any one making more then Minimum wage is a stupid fuck if they support it.they go against there own economic interest.
And which union were you paying dues to while all this was happening?It sounds like your story changes each time a response challenges your claims. You did piece work, but were not dependent on other workers providing material or hauling away finished product. You depended on absolutely no other worker to perform or complete your task. No other workers were dependent on your work to complete their own. You were at a job that was completely independent on all other employees and that allowed you to select your own adjustable work hours. The company thought so highly of you they were ok with you working without any management during your lunch break.Why don't you read what I post Idiot.You can get ahead by being good at what you do. You can be better than average at what you do. You can be fast and at the same time produce quality work than others. You do not have to cheat. Working while others are eating lunch is cheating. Doing extra tasks is just a way of sucking up to the boss and cutting someone else out of a job. If you are good at what you do cheating and sucking up aren't necessary. Your work should be able to stand alone and compete with others who do the same work in the same amount of time under the same conditions.And I guess you don't understand what it takes to get ahead.
You do more than you're expected to.
Anyone who comes in and does the bare minimum will never get anywhere.
Anyone who ever achieved anything knows this
I said i wanted to work through lunch so i could punch out at 3 instead of 330 so I could get to my second job I wasn't working more than those other slobs. And I still managed to outproduce them. I actually wanted piece work but the other lazy fucks voted it down. They all tended to produce the bare minimum they had to. They got orders finished barely by the dead line. I was 3 weeks ahead on my orders and I didn't want to keep the job I just worked it to earn tuition money.
But hey how does your do the bare minimum work ethic treat you when it comes time for a raise?
And sorry but it's a dog eat dog world out there and there is nothing wrong with doing more than is expected of you in order to get ahead.
But then again I guess only people with well developed work ethics believe that truism.
Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction .................
I spent a lot of time in aluminum boat manufacturing. In my earlier years I spent years at a boat plant in which I was allowed to learn / work any and every job in the plant from uncoiling metal rolls, setting up presses, punches, hydraulic breaks, etc, etc.
I was a welder, I spent time with my lead foreman learning to rivet, I learned interior work / trim, all the way out to paint and finally loading and shipping.
There was nothing in that plant I could not do, it was a piece work plant, never had to wait on anyone, I could fabricate it from start to finish.
I left that job and at a point and time later in life went to work for a second plant as the "only" person on a second shift. I was a qualified mofo and was given a key to the plant an cart blanch, I could and still can fabricate aluminum all weld boats from start to finish with out any help. Now to rivet a boat I got to have a bucker to catch the other side of the rivets.
Anyways point being, while not in your realm of reality ......... there definitely are real life scenarios just as he has described.
But for an ignorant, closed minded person I would have to guess everything is suspect .................
Must be terrible to go through life so ignorant ......................
S
Should slave labor be OK in a libertarian society?Heres all we're saying. Between 1950 and 2000 we had high paying manufacturing union labor middle class jobs. We allowed all those jobs to go to China mexico and everywhere else. I know that benefitted the rich and the rest of the world but it didn't help america.And I've told you that it's up to you to earn what you need to pay your bills. If your no skill job isn't paying you enough then you can get a second job or learn a skill that will warrant higher pay
Our gov has a responsibility to look out for the masses. If not capitalism will have us grateful for $5 a day.
It is then same type of question liberals will never answer like:Still no explanation what livable wage is. Anyone?
When discussing then school system:
How much money do The schools need?
The poor have smart cell phones, 50 inch T.V.s , a/c but for some reason god only knows they can not get any ID to vote.
They think in there strange minds they can force the higher labor cost On to the stockholders or CEOs
I've actually asked the question many times here. And it's usually the Corporate-bootlickers who duck & run from the question. I've asked for you guys to put some numbers on it. What's a decent livable wage for an average American Worker these days. I've thrown a few numbers out there. I said possibly about $11 - $15 an hr. How bout you?
Ah, yes. "I have decided that it's the government's job to mandate wages, so you must argue with me from a position of what that wage should be, rather than whether there should be any such thing at all."
Not surprising, really. The only hope you have of winning an argument is if you're both sides of it.
Should government have no power in your utopia?
