Breaking News: U.S. Supreme Court Stops Gay Marriage In Utah

[Silhouette]

What is interesting? This thread?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You hetero-fascists are simply negotiating the extent of your surrender.

The end game is now obvious.

The only question is how much SCOTUS will allow the minority hetero-fascists to negotiate a 'protected zone' if any or simply slam the door on any exception regarding public access.

 

[Silhouette]

Have you read DOMA/Windsor? So you're certain they'll overturn their own findings within one year's time?

I'm not so sure about that.

The ACLU is suing the state of Utah:

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The American Civil Liberties Union has sued the state of Utah over the issue of gay marriage, saying the official decision to stop granting benefits for newly married same-sex couples has created wrenching uncertainty.

The lawsuit filed Tuesday says the state has put hundreds of gay and lesbian couples in legal limbo and prevented them from getting key protections for themselves and their children.

"They've put a giant question mark over the lives of all these people that have married," said John Mejia, legal director for the ACLU in Utah. ACLU sues Utah for not recognizing gay marriages

Their suit amounts to suing the state of Utah for enforcing its own duly enacted law, having one judge via fascism overturning that law, and then blaming Utah for appealing it saying that their appeal has "harmed gays".

That's the same as suing a rape victim for squirming as you wrap the duct tape around her mouth while she's trying to scream for help.

Yeah, nothing to be afraid of on the far left. If the republicans were doing this with their platforms, overriding state law with judicial fascism and then hog tying states as they resisted, everyone would be freaking out about it.

Today, the response to the gay's response is due in court on the Harvey Milk vs Utah case. March 4, 2014.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sil, you are simply crying.

This is over.

 

[beagle9]

Suggesting that Milk is venerated because of his private life is similar to suggesting the same of DDE or JFK or WJC or WH or others.

Simply idiotic.

Not sure of all your abbreviations (i.e. who they are), so I don't know Jake, could it be that the ones you mentioned have been tarnished also badly over time, therefore lessoning the respect that they may have once enjoyed in their achievements also in life (or) could it be that it has lessoned the respect in which the nation had given them before all that was not known about them was therefore later on finally known about them? Wouldn't you agree ? Do you really think that the children should be celebrating Harvey Milk once we know who this man was in character of ? You know some people (kids and adults alike) want to know everything there is to know about their so called or supposed hero in which they do study and want to know everything about, so should we take the chance to lift up a person like this by name, and then to have children celebrate him by name ? Remember Jake, there are always degree's of wrong also, so always consider that in your accusations of others when you try and connect the dots in the way that you just did.

 

[Silhouette]

Sil, you are simply crying.

This is over.

Was the Supreme Court case heard already? When did that happen? What were the convincing arguments for the gays in the end? The Harvey Milk angle? The unexplored genesis of homosexuality in the first place [innate vs learned]? Or was it the sudden leap on HIV cases that boys are coming down with just in the years this gay marriage coup started forcing the cult's values on the governed via fascism?

Which in the end was the convincing argument Jake, of the case you say has already happened and been decided in the LGBT church's favor?

 

[Silhouette]

I don't know Jake, the ones you mentioned have been tarnished also badly over time, therefore lessoning the respect that they may have once enjoyed in their achievements also (or) in the respect the nation had given them before all that was not known about them was therefore later on finally known about them. Wouldn't you agree ? Do you really think that the children should be celebrating Harvey Milk once we know who this man was in character of ? You know some people (kids and adults alike) want to know everything there is to know about their so called or supposed hero in which they do study and want to know everything about, so should we take the chance to lift up a person like this by name, and then to have children celebrate him by name ?

I made this point awhile back where on the day children in California are required by gay law there to celebrate the gay pedophile Harvey Milk on May 22nd each year, what if one of those kids wants to do a really comprehensive book report on Milk as a presentation for extra credit in the 3rd grade? What if their parent goes out and gets Milk's biography and the child starts pouring over it to get information for her report? What then? Tell the child "no no no...you shouldn't read his biography"?

What will an 8 year old think when s/he reads that "Harvey Milk always had a [sexual, in context] penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems"? I can see the report now, "back when Mr. Milk had his 16 year old lover, he was a really nice man" WOW

You're right, past transgressions of other "heros" diminish their status. With Milk, not only are his multiple sex felonies against minors and vulnerable teens not diminishing him, they are THE REASON HE IS CELEBRATED [and defended as such] in the first place! And this is the cult we are fast-tracking to the complete destruction of our social moorings.

No wonder Russia is getting its Black Sea port oiled and running again. This old girl is buckled at the knees and about to go down for her last count..

 

[beagle9]

I don't know Jake, the ones you mentioned have been tarnished also badly over time, therefore lessoning the respect that they may have once enjoyed in their achievements also (or) in the respect the nation had given them before all that was not known about them was therefore later on finally known about them. Wouldn't you agree ? Do you really think that the children should be celebrating Harvey Milk once we know who this man was in character of ? You know some people (kids and adults alike) want to know everything there is to know about their so called or supposed hero in which they do study and want to know everything about, so should we take the chance to lift up a person like this by name, and then to have children celebrate him by name ?

I made this point awhile back where on the day children in California are required by gay law there to celebrate the gay pedophile Harvey Milk on May 22nd each year, what if one of those kids wants to do a really comprehensive book report on Milk as a presentation for extra credit in the 3rd grade? What if their parent goes out and gets Milk's biography and the child starts pouring over it to get information for her report? What then? Tell the child "no no no...you shouldn't read his biography"?

What will an 8 year old think when s/he reads that "Harvey Milk always had a [sexual, in context] penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems"? I can see the report now, "back when Mr. Milk had his 16 year old lover, he was a really nice man" WOW

You're right, past transgressions of other "heros" diminish their status. With Milk, not only are his multiple sex felonies against minors and vulnerable teens not diminishing him, they are THE REASON HE IS CELEBRATED [and defended as such] in the first place! And this is the cult we are fast-tracking to the complete destruction of our social moorings.

No wonder Russia is getting its Black Sea port oiled and running again. This old girl is buckled at the knees and about to go down for her last count..

Funny you mentioned Russia and current events, hmmm....
Could it be that if we continue down the paths that we have been going down, will the world begin to rebuke us also (or) will they lesson their respect for us even more so than it is now ? How about them in the world for whom are our enemies of course on some of the issues, but not so on all of the issues, now will they use these divisive things as an excuse to justify their actions when they are being taken in the world against another? Have we become a laughing stock, and therefore weak in the eyes of the world, so otherwise who are we to demand anything from our weakened position now if that is where we are at in life ? Did Snowden hurt this nation more so than the nation is letting on ? Yes we have a great military still, but will it become a military for leveraging bad things in the world or will it project as it should be the many moral and righteous things in the world just as it should be doing when needed ? What is moral and righteous anymore, does anyone know ?

We may have entered into a very dangerous time in the world maybe, because if we are doing things that are immoral and unethical as a society or nation in which weakens us in the eyes of the world, and we are lifting those things up as if they are good, then there is no way that the world will follow us into the pit if they think that is what we are doing, and so where are we going ? Remember the old saying that goes "make sure your own doorstep is swept and clean, before you go around sweeping other peoples doorsteps in an attempt to make them clean".

Where are we at in the eyes of the Lord and in the world now, does anyone know anymore ?

Interesting!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Suggesting that Milk is venerated because of his private life is similar to suggesting the same of DDE or JFK or WJC or WH or others.

Simply idiotic.

Not sure of all your abbreviations (i.e. who they are), so I don't know Jake, could it be that the ones you mentioned have been tarnished also badly over time, therefore lessoning the respect that they may have once enjoyed in their achievements also in life (or) could it be that it has lessoned the respect in which the nation had given them before all that was not known about them was therefore later on finally known about them? Wouldn't you agree ? Do you really think that the children should be celebrating Harvey Milk once we know who this man was in character of ? You know some people (kids and adults alike) want to know everything there is to know about their so called or supposed hero in which they do study and want to know everything about, so should we take the chance to lift up a person like this by name, and then to have children celebrate him by name ? Remember Jake, there are always degree's of wrong also, so always consider that in your accusations of others when you try and connect the dots in the way that you just did.

Some are, some haven't. But he fact remains that you guys are on the wrong side of marriage equality.

All you are doing now is negotiating the conditions of your defeat.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sil, you are simply crying.

This is over.

Was the Supreme Court case heard already? When did that happen? What were the convincing arguments for the gays in the end? The Harvey Milk angle? The unexplored genesis of homosexuality in the first place [innate vs learned]? Or was it the sudden leap on HIV cases that boys are coming down with just in the years this gay marriage coup started forcing the cult's values on the governed via fascism?

Which in the end was the convincing argument Jake, of the case you say has already happened and been decided in the LGBT church's favor?

Be as crazy as you want, Sil, but the Church of Hetero-Fascism, with you as its spokesperson, is merely negotiating the terms of your defeat.

 

[Seawytch]

The Children Get Their Chance To Speak In Utah Gay Marriage Case

"Family is really important in Utah and [Gov. Gary Herbert and the state of Utah] claim to want to protect families, but it hurts me and my brother to not be able to have married parents," one 12-year-old, identified by the initials R.H.P., told the authors of the brief. "My parents are good moms and are patient with me and are just regular people."[...]

All were bewildered and upset by the state's argument that growing up with gay parents somehow harmed them.

"I'm perfectly fine. My brother's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with us," said Riley Hackford-Peer, a 12-year-old whose moms were married in December.

The state’s argument is "kind of bully-like," he added.[...]

Rieley Frederick, a 14-year-old whose dads were married late last year, said one of her teachers recently told a story about a gay man who was not "loyal" to his partners. The teacher said that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married.

"It's not true, it's just not true. My dad's been loyal my whole life," Rieley said. She hopes that if Utah's ban is overturned, this kind of talk might stop, eventually. "I think after a while, people would realize that it's just part of life and they can't just talk about people that way," she said.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The American Sociology Association rebukes the nonsense offered by those like Sil and her fellow hetero-fascists. "The nation’s largest professional association for sociologists says the states of Utah and Oklahoma are misrepresenting research on child well-being to make their cases against gay marriage."

"The American Sociology Association says positive outcomes for children are tied to stable two-parent relationships and greater parental resources — regardless of whether the two parents are a same-sex or different-sex couple."

"The association, in a brief filed with the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in support of plaintiffs who challenged same-sex marriage bans in Utah and Oklahoma, says some studies cited by the states did not evaluate children of same-sex parents at all; in others, findings are misstated."

"These studies cannot serve as the basis for conclusions about same-sex parents and related child outcomes and do not undermine the social science consensus that children fare just as well with same-sex parents," the association said in its brief."

Same-sex marriage bans are under heavy fire | The Salt Lake Tribune

 

[Silhouette]

The American Sociology Association rebukes the nonsense offered by those like Sil and her fellow hetero-fascists. "The nation’s largest professional association for sociologists says the states of Utah and Oklahoma are misrepresenting research on child well-being to make their cases against gay marriage."

"The American Sociology Association says positive outcomes for children are tied to stable two-parent relationships and greater parental resources — regardless of whether the two parents are a same-sex or different-sex couple."...

A statement on the ASA and it's era of turmoil when temporal politics was vying at the same time to overcome hard science...at the same time a gay cabal was overtaking the APA...

The golden era of the Association reached its zenith in the sixties: a decade of turmoil and crisis for the Association as well as for American society...

...The turmoil was generated by the growth in numbers and activities and by trends toward democratization and equalization that had been operating for, at least, four decades within the Association, and for even longer within the larger society.

In the first half of the decade, the crisis centered on the operation of the Executive Office, relations with regional and affiliated societies, the organization of the Association and the Constitution.

In the second half, the crisis focused on equalizing opportunities within the Association and the profession of women, racial and ethnic minorities, and members employed in non-academic settings...

...In 1963, President Everett C. Hughes outlined a guiding philosophy for the Association as it attempted to cope with the strains of growth: "Since we are a lively and growing organization, none of our problems can be solved once and for all. The best we can do is to seek solutions for the present and near future, with an eye to the direction of change, while remaining true to the goals of a learned and scientific society."... American Sociological Association: Rhoades History Chapter 8

A blurb from an ASA link on how social science research is done; with a link to the APA source, one of others, it uses to form it's conclusions:

http://www.asanet.org/ethics/resources/EthicsBibliography.pdf
...AAUP. 2000. “Institutional Review Boards and Social Science Research.” [IRB]...

...This 200 page volume was written specifically for the voting members of IRBs. It provides background information on the IRB system, the intended focus of IRB discussions, what members should before and during meetings, and summarizes basic guidelines for evaluating specific kinds of studies. It also contains a substantial section on references for additional information, including websites, books, and video recordings.

Azar, Beth. 2002. “Ethics at the Cost of Research?” Monitor on Psychology. 33(2).
American Psychological Association. Ethics at the cost of research? ...

And the APA source itself, describing how...*ahem*...science is done...

Few topics elicit more emotion from psychology researchers than the mention of three simple letters: IRB.

Institutional review boards--those federally mandated ethics committees that evaluate all federally funded and most institutionally sponsored research conducted with humans--are often seen by researchers as synonymous with delays, unreasonable requests and seemingly capricious requirements. Behavioral and social science researchers' major complaint is that many IRBs subject them to regulations written and interpreted through a biomedical lens, with little recognition of the major differences between medical research and what they do. This results, in their view, in unnecessary delays and constraints that impede research but do little to enhance the protection of research participants.

To help facilitate researcher and IRB interactions, APA and other groups are seeking to better educate IRBs about social and behavioral sciences research as well as to teach researchers how they can work more effectively with their IRBs.

"We need to move in a direction where we all come to value issues involved in human protections," says psychologist Michael Fendrich, PhD, a researcher and chair of the social and behavioral sciences IRB at the University of Illinois, Chicago. "We need to see it as a gain for our research--not a burden--that makes the research better."...

...Local interpretations

Although the condemnation of IRBs can get quite strong, even the most vitriolic researcher agrees that, in theory, IRBs serve an important role in ensuring ethical research and maintaining public confidence in the research system.

"I have had some wonderful experiences with IRBs," says Pennsylvania State University developmental psychologist Sheri Berenbaum, PhD, who deals with multiple IRBs because her work spans several institutions. "Penn State's IRB, for example, is a model of how an IRB should operate. [Its members] hold in mind the question of what the risk is to the subject and everything they ask ties back to minimizing that risk. They've recently noticed a problem that I overlooked and I'm grateful for that oversight."...

...APA hopes to help with some of these problems by creating educational documents that could help IRBs better understand the goals and procedures of behavioral research and how federal regulations apply to that work. APA's Board of Scientific Affairs (BSA) has made this issue a top priority this year and hopes to have something to send out to IRBs by fall. "We need to help them think of procedures that are less taxing for them and for us," says University of Rochester social psychologist Harry T. Reis, PhD, chair of BSA....

Ethics at the cost of research?

Yes, actual science can be SO taxing in a research paper the public later relies upon to make important and profound decisions...like, I don't know, maybe an amicus brief to the US Supreme Court on whether or not the Harvey Milk cult should access orphans to adopt by the privelege of marriage?...decisions like that.

Here's a history of how the APA and its sphere of influences [see "ASA"] came to regard politics in favor of science...you know, that pesky, tasking stuff that makes objective conclusions...:

Dr. Nicholas Cummings was President of the APA from 1979 to 1980, and also served as a member of the organization’s Council of Representatives. He served for years as Chief of Mental Health with the Kaiser-Permanente Health Maintenance Organization, and is the author of the book “Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well-Intentioned Path to Harm.”...

...The APA “started changing pretty drastically by the late 1980s,” said Cummings. “By the mid 1990s, the Leona Tyler principle was absolutely forgotten, that political stances seemed to override any scientific results. Cherry-picking results became the mode. The gay rights movement sort of captured the APA.”

..Cummings says that the movement for “diversity” in the APA, which he endorsed, had resulted in a lack of diversity regarding heterosexuals. Former president of APA says organization (now) controlled by ‘gay rights’ movement

The Leona Tyler Principle was the guideline for the APA for ages that any stance they take publicly must be based in science. It was in place for many years. Suddenly, it was 'disappeared' and searches for it at the APA website come up empty. The board didn't even vote on disappearing it. It just 'vanished'.

And now you know where the source of viability of the ASA amicus brief comes from...

 

[beagle9]

The Children Get Their Chance To Speak In Utah Gay Marriage Case

"Family is really important in Utah and [Gov. Gary Herbert and the state of Utah] claim to want to protect families, but it hurts me and my brother to not be able to have married parents," one 12-year-old, identified by the initials R.H.P., told the authors of the brief. "My parents are good moms and are patient with me and are just regular people."[...]

All were bewildered and upset by the state's argument that growing up with gay parents somehow harmed them.

"I'm perfectly fine. My brother's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with us," said Riley Hackford-Peer, a 12-year-old whose moms were married in December.

The state’s argument is "kind of bully-like," he added.[...]

Rieley Frederick, a 14-year-old whose dads were married late last year, said one of her teachers recently told a story about a gay man who was not "loyal" to his partners. The teacher said that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married.

"It's not true, it's just not true. My dad's been loyal my whole life," Rieley said. She hopes that if Utah's ban is overturned, this kind of talk might stop, eventually. "I think after a while, people would realize that it's just part of life and they can't just talk about people that way," she said.

Loyalty can be gained in many ways, especially from the young who have no choice but to listen and learn from that which is in charge of them, but that don't make that loyalty gained to therefore be founded in righteousness nor to be founded in morality. Nice try though, but it takes adults to know right from wrong in life, and it is the adults who have a responsibility to teach the children what is right in life and what is wrong in life.

The word says that if you teach the children to sin, then it would be better that you would tie a talent around thy neck, and to sink thyself to the bottom of the sea. It is that bad of a deal, and people will learn soon enough about the err of their ways in all of this mess for sure. You can tell I am a person who believes in the word as it is layed out for us from over the generations, and it is righteous and founded in truth, so I just feel sorry for those who are lost, but yet I remain hopeful for them always that they will find their way back somehow.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I don't know Jake, the ones you mentioned have been tarnished also badly over time, therefore lessoning the respect that they may have once enjoyed in their achievements also (or) in the respect the nation had given them before all that was not known about them was therefore later on finally known about them. Wouldn't you agree ? Do you really think that the children should be celebrating Harvey Milk once we know who this man was in character of ? You know some people (kids and adults alike) want to know everything there is to know about their so called or supposed hero in which they do study and want to know everything about, so should we take the chance to lift up a person like this by name, and then to have children celebrate him by name ?

I made this point awhile back where on the day children in California are required by gay law there to celebrate the gay pedophile Harvey Milk on May 22nd each year, what if one of those kids wants to do a really comprehensive book report on Milk as a presentation for extra credit in the 3rd grade? What if their parent goes out and gets Milk's biography and the child starts pouring over it to get information for her report? What then? Tell the child "no no no...you shouldn't read his biography"?

What will an 8 year old think when s/he reads that "Harvey Milk always had a [sexual, in context] penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems"? I can see the report now, "back when Mr. Milk had his 16 year old lover, he was a really nice man" WOW

You're right, past transgressions of other "heros" diminish their status. With Milk, not only are his multiple sex felonies against minors and vulnerable teens not diminishing him, they are THE REASON HE IS CELEBRATED [and defended as such] in the first place! And this is the cult we are fast-tracking to the complete destruction of our social moorings.

No wonder Russia is getting its Black Sea port oiled and running again. This old girl is buckled at the knees and about to go down for her last count..

Funny you mentioned Russia and current events, hmmm....
Could it be that if we continue down the paths that we have been going down, will the world begin to rebuke us also (or) will they lesson their respect for us even more so than it is now ? How about them in the world for whom are our enemies of course on some of the issues, but not so on all of the issues, now will they use these divisive things as an excuse to justify their actions when they are being taken in the world against another? Have we become a laughing stock, and therefore weak in the eyes of the world, so otherwise who are we to demand anything from our weakened position now if that is where we are at in life ? Did Snowden hurt this nation more so than the nation is letting on ? Yes we have a great military still, but will it become a military for leveraging bad things in the world or will it project as it should be the many moral and righteous things in the world just as it should be doing when needed ? What is moral and righteous anymore, does anyone know ?

We may have entered into a very dangerous time in the world maybe, because if we are doing things that are immoral and unethical as a society or nation in which weakens us in the eyes of the world, and we are lifting those things up as if they are good, then there is no way that the world will follow us into the pit if they think that is what we are doing, and so where are we going ? Remember the old saying that goes "make sure your own doorstep is swept and clean, before you go around sweeping other peoples doorsteps in an attempt to make them clean".

Where are we at in the eyes of the Lord and in the world now, does anyone know anymore ?

Interesting!

Nonsense.

As long as we remain true to the principles of due process and equal protection of the law, by acknowledging the comprehensive civil rights of gay Americans, America will remain a great, powerful, and free Nation.

If we give into the fear, hate, and ignorance exhibited by those seeking to deny gay Americans their civil liberties, however, that’s the point at which we can start to fear for the well-being of America.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nonsense.

As long as we remain true to the principles of due process and equal protection of the law, by acknowledging the comprehensive civil rights of gay Americans, America will remain a great, powerful, and free Nation.

If we give into the fear, hate, and ignorance exhibited by those seeking to deny gay Americans their civil liberties, however, that’s the point at which we can start to fear for the well-being of America.

You are absolutely correct, and you note the very real danger of the hetero-fascists gaining control of the 14th's interpretation.

Do not fear that such will happen. For one thing, even if it did, the millenials and younger Xs would reverse it within a decade, if that.

 

[beagle9]

I made this point awhile back where on the day children in California are required by gay law there to celebrate the gay pedophile Harvey Milk on May 22nd each year, what if one of those kids wants to do a really comprehensive book report on Milk as a presentation for extra credit in the 3rd grade? What if their parent goes out and gets Milk's biography and the child starts pouring over it to get information for her report? What then? Tell the child "no no no...you shouldn't read his biography"?

What will an 8 year old think when s/he reads that "Harvey Milk always had a [sexual, in context] penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems"? I can see the report now, "back when Mr. Milk had his 16 year old lover, he was a really nice man" WOW

You're right, past transgressions of other "heros" diminish their status. With Milk, not only are his multiple sex felonies against minors and vulnerable teens not diminishing him, they are THE REASON HE IS CELEBRATED [and defended as such] in the first place! And this is the cult we are fast-tracking to the complete destruction of our social moorings.

No wonder Russia is getting its Black Sea port oiled and running again. This old girl is buckled at the knees and about to go down for her last count..

Funny you mentioned Russia and current events, hmmm....
Could it be that if we continue down the paths that we have been going down, will the world begin to rebuke us also (or) will they lesson their respect for us even more so than it is now ? How about them in the world for whom are our enemies of course on some of the issues, but not so on all of the issues, now will they use these divisive things as an excuse to justify their actions when they are being taken in the world against another? Have we become a laughing stock, and therefore weak in the eyes of the world, so otherwise who are we to demand anything from our weakened position now if that is where we are at in life ? Did Snowden hurt this nation more so than the nation is letting on ? Yes we have a great military still, but will it become a military for leveraging bad things in the world or will it project as it should be the many moral and righteous things in the world just as it should be doing when needed ? What is moral and righteous anymore, does anyone know ?

We may have entered into a very dangerous time in the world maybe, because if we are doing things that are immoral and unethical as a society or nation in which weakens us in the eyes of the world, and we are lifting those things up as if they are good, then there is no way that the world will follow us into the pit if they think that is what we are doing, and so where are we going ? Remember the old saying that goes "make sure your own doorstep is swept and clean, before you go around sweeping other peoples doorsteps in an attempt to make them clean".

Where are we at in the eyes of the Lord and in the world now, does anyone know anymore ?

Interesting!

Nonsense.

As long as we remain true to the principles of due process and equal protection of the law, by acknowledging the comprehensive civil rights of gay Americans, America will remain a great, powerful, and free Nation.

If we give into the fear, hate, and ignorance exhibited by those seeking to deny gay Americans their civil liberties, however, that’s the point at which we can start to fear for the well-being of America.

Do you figure that the world should follow suit in what America is creating or influencing now here, and then next the attempt of it out in the world, and should they (other nations) remain soveriegn in their nation states without following in lock step with America's declining values or it's new strange influencing for which it has now ? Once we in this nation projected strength through values out in the world, but no more is that the case it seems. So what is left ? Let me see maybe blackmail through economics or money in order to get others to accept our ways all over the world now ? It's worked here, so why not try it on the world also eh ? Nah that won't work either, so a return to values is paramount here first, but that isn't going to happen anymore either is it ? Man-O-Man.

 

[beagle9]

Nonsense.

As long as we remain true to the principles of due process and equal protection of the law, by acknowledging the comprehensive civil rights of gay Americans, America will remain a great, powerful, and free Nation.

If we give into the fear, hate, and ignorance exhibited by those seeking to deny gay Americans their civil liberties, however, that’s the point at which we can start to fear for the well-being of America.

You are absolutely correct, and you note the very real danger of the hetero-fascists gaining control of the 14th's interpretation.

Do not fear that such will happen. For one thing, even if it did, the millenials and younger Xs would reverse it within a decade, if that.

Who is gaining or attempting to gain control here Jake ? You better wake up, because no one is changing or attempting to change things except for yall. Everyone or rather the majority was satisfied with the way America was in it's values and morals in which most had adopted as their own when come here through out the years, but all that is being turned on it's head as we speak, so don't even try to suggest that all of a sudden the Americans who have believed in this nation and it's core values over time, are now the strangers attempting to take it over or away from another. We all know who the thieves are, so who are you trying to fool with your fancy yet empty words ?

 

[Seawytch]

The Children Get Their Chance To Speak In Utah Gay Marriage Case

"Family is really important in Utah and [Gov. Gary Herbert and the state of Utah] claim to want to protect families, but it hurts me and my brother to not be able to have married parents," one 12-year-old, identified by the initials R.H.P., told the authors of the brief. "My parents are good moms and are patient with me and are just regular people."[...]

All were bewildered and upset by the state's argument that growing up with gay parents somehow harmed them.

"I'm perfectly fine. My brother's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with us," said Riley Hackford-Peer, a 12-year-old whose moms were married in December.

The state’s argument is "kind of bully-like," he added.[...]

Rieley Frederick, a 14-year-old whose dads were married late last year, said one of her teachers recently told a story about a gay man who was not "loyal" to his partners. The teacher said that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married.

"It's not true, it's just not true. My dad's been loyal my whole life," Rieley said. She hopes that if Utah's ban is overturned, this kind of talk might stop, eventually. "I think after a while, people would realize that it's just part of life and they can't just talk about people that way," she said.

Loyalty can be gained in many ways, especially from the young who have no choice but to listen and learn from that which is in charge of them, but that don't make that loyalty gained to therefore be founded in righteousness nor to be founded in morality. Nice try though, but it takes adults to know right from wrong in life, and it is the adults who have a responsibility to teach the children what is right in life and what is wrong in life.

The word says that if you teach the children to sin, then it would be better that you would tie a talent around thy neck, and to sink thyself to the bottom of the sea. It is that bad of a deal, and people will learn soon enough about the err of their ways in all of this mess for sure. You can tell I am a person who believes in the word as it is layed out for us from over the generations, and it is righteous and founded in truth, so I just feel sorry for those who are lost, but yet I remain hopeful for them always that they will find their way back somehow.

What are you blathering about? You feel sorry for the children of gays? Don't. Our kids are doing just fine. If you want to pity any kids, pity the kids of divorce.

 

[Silhouette]

...you note the very real danger of the hetero-fascists gaining control of the 14th's interpretation.

Do not fear that such will happen. For one thing, even if it did, the millenials and younger Xs would reverse it within a decade, if that.

A fascist projecting his cult's fascism onto people who's free speech is being hogtied and "heresy" punished daily eh? That's rich.

What if your brainwashed [for you admit that they are from your certainty of how they will vote..."born that way"?...really?] millenials and Xs suddenly learned that sex with the colon is like injecting HIV infected semen straight into their veins? Or that Harvey Milk liked to prey on homeless teen boys who committed suicide one after the other?

What if the media campaign turned on its heels and went against the cult? Then the brainwashing would shift rather quickly in the opposite direction. It's all a matter of Will, isn't it? The cult of LGBT's will vs the will of the opposition to it.