Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?

[ESay]

Actually, you understand nothing. According to the Minsk agreements the pullback should be done from the frontline as of September 2014. According to this frontline the city of Debaltsevo belongs to the government held territory. If we are talking about the pullback from the entire frontline, then when the rebels will get out from the city and the surrounding area?

No, I do not understand why Debaltsevo matters so much: it's just one of 100+ settlements which both sides have to withdraw from. And according to Minsk agreements it should be done a lot sooner that 10 years (which Zelensky has suggested).

Putin, on the contrary, wants to stay with Minsk agreements without revising them.

Putin: There is nothing more important than the Minsk Agreements. Of course, I was worried by the statement made by President Zelensky after he left Paris to the effect that they could be revised. If we revise the Minsk Agreements, the settlement process will hit a dead end, because the main element of the Minsk Agreements is a law on the special status of Donbass, which must be formalised in the Ukrainian Constitution. It has been extended for a year, but not permanently, although we keep saying – not only do I, but the other Normandy format leaders say so as well – that the law must be of unlimited duration and that its formula must be incorporated in the Constitution. However, it appears that neither the previous nor the current Ukrainian leadership wants this. But there is no way around it. This is the first point.
Vladimir Putin’s annual news conference

Putin: Mr Zelensky and I have different positions on this issue. Our position is very simple: we stand for the implementation of the Minsk Agreements. The Minsk Agreements say – you can read it for yourself – that Ukraine will be able to start restoring control over that territory, over that section of the border on day one after the local elections. This is what it says. And this process should end after the completion of a comprehensive political settlement. This is what the text of the agreement says. Why should the Minsk Agreements be reopened and revised? All the measures set out in that package are interconnected. If we revise one of them, this will lead to the revision of others and we will lose the agreements and create a situation where nothing can be done. This is our logic, and I believe that it is justified.
Joint news conference following a Normandy format summit

Because if you want full and literal fulfillment of an agreement, it is understandable that the other part demands the same from you.

Except of that, Debaltsevo is an important transportation center. Holding it has virtually a strategic importance for the government.

 

[ESay]

So..........are both sides still firing on each other and are they still manning front line positions there?

Yes.

 

[ph3iron]

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

I can only admit you don't belong to the forum because you are constantly trying to derail the threads.

The subject was your whining about fake Nazis.

Nazis are the same as Commies, so clean up Russia before you worry about Ukraine.

This why the cons dad went to a KKK rally?
Great genes

 

[ph3iron]

That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

You mean where they're both violent, big government forms of socialism?

Maybe you could list the 5 biggest differences?

 

[Stratford57]

I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.

Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.

If you read Minsk Agreements you’ll find out that step #5 says:

Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict

^ Those exactly are “the ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists” as you said. They can NOT be prosecuted according to Minsk Agreements, you don’t have to be a lawyer to see that.

When you call some group of people “a terrorist organization” you mean “the terrorists are all those whom the group consists of ”. When Ukrainian officials call LNR and DNR “terrorist organizations” they obviously mean “all those who belong to those states are terrorists” otherwise Ukrainian officials would phase their statements somewhat different. It’s absolute absurd, I agree, but so is basically everything they say. I’m surprised there still are some people in Ukraine who buy that. I wonder why?...

 

[Stratford57]

Because if you want full and literal fulfillment of an agreement, it is understandable that the other part demands the same from you.

Except of that, Debaltsevo is an important transportation center. Holding it has virtually a strategic importance for the government.

May be it would make sense to start withdrawal from other 100+ settlements and to leave Debaltsevo as is until everything else is done? In any case, Zelensky said he could guarantee withdrawal in another 3 settlements only until the next Normandy meeting, it doesn’t make any sense to complain about one settlement of Debaltsevo when you have over hundred of others.

So far it sounds like a poor excuse.

 

[Stratford57]

That reminds me, when are the Commies going to pay off all the old Czarist debt?

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

Never. He prefers to bother us instead.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

Never. He prefers to bother us instead.

I love when Commies pretend Nazis are more evil.

 

[ESay]

I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.

Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.

If you read Minsk Agreements you’ll find out that step #5 says:

Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict

^ Those exactly are “the ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists” as you said. They can NOT be prosecuted according to Minsk Agreements, you don’t have to be a lawyer to see that.

When you call some group of people “a terrorist organization” you mean “the terrorists are all those whom the group consists of ”. When Ukrainian officials call LNR and DNR “terrorist organizations” they obviously mean “all those who belong to those states are terrorists” otherwise Ukrainian officials would phase their statements somewhat different. It’s absolute absurd, I agree, but so is basically everything they say. I’m surprised there still are some people in Ukraine who buy that. I wonder why?...

According to the agreements, a law should be passed about the amnesty. This virtually hasn't be done.

Predicting your question 'why?'. Because as Ukraine insists, the Minsk agreements should be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another. As I wrote that the pullback can't be an isolated action, similarly the amnesty can't be the same.

I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.

 

[ESay]

Because if you want full and literal fulfillment of an agreement, it is understandable that the other part demands the same from you.

Except of that, Debaltsevo is an important transportation center. Holding it has virtually a strategic importance for the government.

May be it would make sense to start withdrawal from other 100+ settlements and to leave Debaltsevo as is until everything else is done? In any case, Zelensky said he could guarantee withdrawal in another 3 settlements only until the next Normandy meeting, it doesn’t make any sense to complain about one settlement of Debaltsevo when you have over hundred of others.

So far it sounds like a poor excuse.

I already told you why Debaltsevo matters. And this town as any place can be included in those '3 settlements'.

I understand that you are playing on the rebels' tune, but why should Ukraine do the same? Follow the demands of your opponent or make concession in yours. That is how things work.

 

[Stratford57]

I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.

Even if you repeat "halva" hundred times you won't have a sweet feeling in your mouth )ME saying).

It doesn’t matter if LNR and DNR are pseudo or not pseudo states: without a dialogue with THEM you’ll never see them back. And the longer official Kiev and the people like yourself keep calling 3 to 4 million of their residents in Donbass “terrorist organizations” the fewer chances will remain for them to be anxious to come back to Ukraine. Also why do you think official Kiev even needs those 3+ million of “terrorists” back to Ukraine. Please, explain.

 

[Stratford57]

I already told you why Debaltsevo matters. And this town as any place can be included in those '3 settlements'.

I understand that you are playing on the rebels' tune, but why should Ukraine do the same? Follow the demands of your opponent or make concession in yours. That is how things work.

1. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian control of the border follows the elections in Donbass. Zelensky clearly said he wanted to do it visa versa: to the elections to follow his control of the border.


2. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Heavy weapons withdrawal must be completed within two weeks. Zelensky wants more than 10 years.

3. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline. Zelensky wants to withdraw only from 3 settlements.

4. Item 5 says: Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict which Ukraine is responsible for, not Debaltsevo, not Donbass rebels.

Those^ are only 4 examples of many which clearly show how much Ukraine wants (actually, does NOT want) “the Minsk agreements be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another.” (as you said). But at the same time Ukraine tries to distract the attention and points her finger on Debaltsevo. What a farce.

P.S. That was what Putin called "revising of Minsk Agreements" and official Kiev calls "full implementation of Minsk Agreements".

 

[ESay]

I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.

Even if you repeat "halva" hundred times you won't have a sweet feeling in your mouth )ME saying).

It doesn’t matter if LNR and DNR are pseudo or not pseudo states: without a dialogue with THEM you’ll never see them back. And the longer official Kiev and the people like yourself keep calling 3 to 4 million of their residents in Donbass “terrorist organizations” the fewer chances will remain for them to be anxious to come back to Ukraine. Also why do you think official Kiev even needs those 3+ million of “terrorists” back to Ukraine. Please, explain.

What can I explain to the likes as you are? I have already told you whom Ukraine considers terrorists. Do you have a reading comprehension issue?

 

[ESay]

I already told you why Debaltsevo matters. And this town as any place can be included in those '3 settlements'.

I understand that you are playing on the rebels' tune, but why should Ukraine do the same? Follow the demands of your opponent or make concession in yours. That is how things work.

1. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian control of the border follows the elections in Donbass. Zelensky clearly said he wanted to do it visa versa: to the elections to follow his control of the border.


2. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Heavy weapons withdrawal must be completed within two weeks. Zelensky wants more than 10 years.

3. It’s written clearly in Minsk Agreements: Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline. Zelensky wants to withdraw only from 3 settlements.

4. Item 5 says: Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict which Ukraine is responsible for, not Debaltsevo, not Donbass rebels.

Those^ are only 4 examples of many which clearly show how much Ukraine wants (actually, does NOT want) “the Minsk agreements be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another.” (as you said). But at the same time Ukraine tries to distract the attention and points her finger on Debaltsevo. What a farce.

P.S. That was what Putin called "revising of Minsk Agreements" and official Kiev calls "full implementation of Minsk Agreements".

Actually, it is a farce to talk with your ilk.

Zelensky don't want 10 years to pull the troops back. He is disappointed by the pace and wants to speed up the process.

It is not only the Ukrainian troops that must withdraw heavy weapons. The rebel militants must do the same.

Debaltsevo is only one of a number of points in the agreements where the rebels must make concession. And they are not keen to do that.

The Minsk agreements are a two way road. And it is silly to demand from Ukraine something not offering something back. But you even hadn't bothered to read them until a couple of days ago. What can be discussed with you about this matter? Your ignorance?

 

[ph3iron]

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commyies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

Never. He prefers to bother us instead.

I love when Commies pretend Nazis are more evil.

Yup, don't see ayran in the commie def.
Nazi
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler and advocated totalitarian government, territorial expansion, anti-Semitism, and Aryan supremacy, all these leading directly to World War II and the Holocaust.

Ah,info, too much to ask from trumpanzees/ trump u??

 

[ph3iron]

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

You mean where they're both violent, big government forms of socialism?

Maybe you could list the 5 biggest differences?

Why try to explain to a trumpanzee who hasn't had Latin and has no idea of the def of liberal

 

[ph3iron]

May be after USA pay their debt, ha?

BTW, when are USA going to pay their debt?

The USA hasn't defaulted on any debt, silly Commie.

Ok, and Commies actually killed the Czar, dear smart person. Stay with the subject of the thread if you would.

Killing the Czar doesn't mean Commies can just default on their debt.

Still working on the list of differences between Nazis and Commies?
Or are you admitting they're basically the same thing?

Ever bothered to look up the definitions?

Never. He prefers to bother us instead.

I suspect our zero college patriot didn't know adolf hated commies and socialists.
That why he inserted "national" into his socialist perty.
And lost the war by attacking Russia in the winter.
Ah well

 

[ph3iron]

W

I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.

Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.

If you read Minsk Agreements you’ll find out that step #5 says:

Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict

^ Those exactly are “the ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists” as you said. They can NOT be prosecuted according to Minsk Agreements, you don’t have to be a lawyer to see that.

When you call some group of people “a terrorist organization” you mean “the terrorists are all those whom the group consists of ”. When Ukrainian officials call LNR and DNR “terrorist organizations” they obviously mean “all those who belong to those states are terrorists” otherwise Ukrainian officials would phase their statements somewhat different. It’s absolute absurd, I agree, but so is basically everything they say. I’m surprised there still are some people in Ukraine who buy that. I wonder why?...

According to the agreements, a law should be passed about the amnesty. This virtually hasn't be done.

Predicting your question 'why?'. Because as Ukraine insists, the Minsk agreements should be realizing in complex, not from one clause to another. As I wrote that the pullback can't be an isolated action, similarly the amnesty can't be the same.

I repeat it once more, there are no any 'states' DNR or LNR. The are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts' and there are people who live there. Also, there are terrorist organizations DNR and LNR who established pseudo-state branches of authority there and operate military units.

Wow I learned something.
I thought the forum was for zero college old white fart trumpanzees who just spewed knees news??

 

[Stratford57]

What can I explain to the likes as you are? I have already told you whom Ukraine considers terrorists. Do you have a reading comprehension issue?

Try to explain not to me but to the people of Donbass why Ukraine needs 3+ million people from Donbass (whom official Kiev considers "terrorists") back to the country and what her officials will do with them afterwards. I'm afraid they already know the answer.