Brexit busted.

[anotherlife]

But none of them contribute.
Why should they have a voice ?
Why should we believe anything they say ?
You and your mates are just Murdochs puppets.

Oh, that's rich !! Calling me a 'puppet' ....

What you apparently just don't get, is that continued membership of the EU makes us ALL 'puppets' of a power that is NOT our OWN. We will never know stand-alone autonomy in our affairs, until the strings which bind us to EU diktats are cut, once and for all.

I refuse to be a puppet ... of any power, or authority, which isn't 'my own' ... so very much the case for that bunch of foreigners comprising the rest of the EU .... and it's YOU who's so intent on continuing to be one.

Don't worry, if you don't want to be the EU's puppet, you can be America's puppet or Russia's puppet. Is it better?

Gee, thanks ...

I fail to see why there's any expectation that the UK must be, should be, is liable to be, anyone's 'puppet'. The EU Referendum, if it's to serve any purpose, is to show the world that we will willingly throw off any shackles that makes us THEIR puppets. Why would we do that, if we didn't have pride in ourselves as a power wanting to govern - shock, horror !!! - OURSELVES ?

This is a very good answer, and I like the style. Too bad it is incorrect. The problem is that nobody is self governing. The last one to try this was the Soviet Union, with all its resources, and failed. So, newsflash, every country is a puppet. What matters is how much say you have in the brokering of power over your head. Separatism doesn't help this.

 

[Drummond]

But none of them contribute.
Why should they have a voice ?
Why should we believe anything they say ?
You and your mates are just Murdochs puppets.

Oh, that's rich !! Calling me a 'puppet' ....

What you apparently just don't get, is that continued membership of the EU makes us ALL 'puppets' of a power that is NOT our OWN. We will never know stand-alone autonomy in our affairs, until the strings which bind us to EU diktats are cut, once and for all.

I refuse to be a puppet ... of any power, or authority, which isn't 'my own' ... so very much the case for that bunch of foreigners comprising the rest of the EU .... and it's YOU who's so intent on continuing to be one.

Don't worry, if you don't want to be the EU's puppet, you can be America's puppet or Russia's puppet. Is it better?

Gee, thanks ...

I fail to see why there's any expectation that the UK must be, should be, is liable to be, anyone's 'puppet'. The EU Referendum, if it's to serve any purpose, is to show the world that we will willingly throw off any shackles that makes us THEIR puppets. Why would we do that, if we didn't have pride in ourselves as a power wanting to govern - shock, horror !!! - OURSELVES ?

This is a very good answer, and I like the style. Too bad it is incorrect. The problem is that nobody is self governing. The last one to try this was the Soviet Union, with all its resources, and failed. So, newsflash, every country is a puppet. What matters is how much say you have in the brokering of power over your head. Separatism doesn't help this.

Subsuming your powers of Government DEFINITELY doesn't help !!

You're trying to make the point of political interdependence ? No doubt that's a Globalist's position, but I see nothing to stop the UK gaining independence from the EU, and so a new-found ability to pass its own laws unfettered by 'other masters'. True and total freedom may be illusory, BUT, we can gain a new and remarkably complete taste of it, if ONLY we snap the chain binding us to EU diktats.

 

[MaryL]

Brexit Poll: Leave is falling away

The latest polls show that support for leaving is falling away.

The innate good sense of the British people comes to the rescue.

The outers are all about immigration but the real issue is jobs.

They cannot answer the most basic question.

Is there a reputable study to show if Britain is better or worse for leaving the EU? Kate Hoey should have turned that question back. Well?

 

[Phoenall]

As far as I can understand, migration is one of the main reasons for Brexiters to leave the EU. In this thread migrants from Eastern Europe have been mentioned. But except of the East-Europeans, there are a big number of immigrants from the Commonwealth, particularly from India and Pakistan. These immigrants have nothing to do with the EU’s requirements, do they? They also should face those restrictions which would be imposed on the East-Europeans?

N the Indians are no problem as they will integrate and follow our customs, it is the muslims that are invading that are the problem. They want homes, food, money and to control the country as their god told them to. Then we have the east Europeans that seem to be mostly criminals that flood into the UK and demand the same things

 

[Phoenall]

Farage 'mistress' took overdose following row with Ukip leader's wife
This must be the ultimate humiliation for a girl.

Er'm .... this has WHAT to do with any objective study of the pros and cons of 'Brexit' .. ???

I'd suggest that you debate without these examples of sheer bias (which are unconnected with the veracity of either argument) being offered !

Its isnt the central issue. But its worth taking a look at the brexit cheerleaders. They make my skin crawl and the only place I would follow them is the edge of a cliff where I could push them over.


Chris Grayling
Incompetence
How can Chris Grayling apologise to MPs while ignoring the prisons crisis? | Eric Allison

Sacked as Justice Minister
Is Chris Grayling the most incompetent member of the government?

Expenses fraud
Top Tory claims £100,000 for flat he is 'rarely seen in'

Lying
The mystery of Chris Grayling's expenses

IDS

Expenses fraud
Iain Duncan Smith claimed £39 breakfast on expenses (that'd leave him £14 for the rest of the week)

Expenses
Duncan Smith's expenses card suspended after running up debt

petition
Over 56,000 people demand Iain Duncan Smith resigns over fake sanctions quotes

Faker
Use of fake quotes in benefits leaflet 'quite wrong', Iain Duncan Smith admits

CV Lies
BBC - Press Office - Iain Duncan Smith CV

Policies lead to suicides
At last, a report that skewers Iain Duncan Smith' welfare policies | Alex Andreou

Michael Gove

Expenses fraud
Michael Gove to pay back £7,000: MPs' expenses

More expenses fraud
Michael Gove 'flipped' homes: MPs' expenses

And again
Latest MPs expenses scandal - Nick Clegg and Michael Gove claim rent for office space

Sacked “toxic”
David Cameron axes Michael Gove in reshuffle after toxic poll warning

Anti science agenda
Michael Gove is concerned about teachers promoting science in schools. Yes, really

Liam Fox

Anti gay
Liam Fox: Gays should be treated with respect – but banned from marrying

Sacked for taking boyfriend on official trips.
Defence Secretary Liam Fox resigns over links with friend Adam Werrity

Expenses fraud
Defence Secretary Liam Fox used expenses to pay his best man Adam Werritty

Pathetic
Tory MP Liam Fox claims 3p on expenses for 100-metre car journey

More expense scandal
Conservative MPs repay expenses claimed for room service, hotels and late-payment charges

I notice you did not mention one single Labour politician when they were the worst offenders for expense's fraud. LIKE THE ONE THAT FIDDLED THE MOST AND CONVENIENTLY DIED BEFORE HE COULD BE CHARGED

 

[Drummond]

Farage 'mistress' took overdose following row with Ukip leader's wife
This must be the ultimate humiliation for a girl.

Er'm .... this has WHAT to do with any objective study of the pros and cons of 'Brexit' .. ???

I'd suggest that you debate without these examples of sheer bias (which are unconnected with the veracity of either argument) being offered !

Its isnt the central issue. But its worth taking a look at the brexit cheerleaders. They make my skin crawl and the only place I would follow them is the edge of a cliff where I could push them over.


Chris Grayling
Incompetence
How can Chris Grayling apologise to MPs while ignoring the prisons crisis? | Eric Allison

Sacked as Justice Minister
Is Chris Grayling the most incompetent member of the government?

Expenses fraud
Top Tory claims £100,000 for flat he is 'rarely seen in'

Lying
The mystery of Chris Grayling's expenses

IDS

Expenses fraud
Iain Duncan Smith claimed £39 breakfast on expenses (that'd leave him £14 for the rest of the week)

Expenses
Duncan Smith's expenses card suspended after running up debt

petition
Over 56,000 people demand Iain Duncan Smith resigns over fake sanctions quotes

Faker
Use of fake quotes in benefits leaflet 'quite wrong', Iain Duncan Smith admits

CV Lies
BBC - Press Office - Iain Duncan Smith CV

Policies lead to suicides
At last, a report that skewers Iain Duncan Smith' welfare policies | Alex Andreou

Michael Gove

Expenses fraud
Michael Gove to pay back £7,000: MPs' expenses

More expenses fraud
Michael Gove 'flipped' homes: MPs' expenses

And again
Latest MPs expenses scandal - Nick Clegg and Michael Gove claim rent for office space

Sacked “toxic”
David Cameron axes Michael Gove in reshuffle after toxic poll warning

Anti science agenda
Michael Gove is concerned about teachers promoting science in schools. Yes, really

Liam Fox

Anti gay
Liam Fox: Gays should be treated with respect – but banned from marrying

Sacked for taking boyfriend on official trips.
Defence Secretary Liam Fox resigns over links with friend Adam Werrity

Expenses fraud
Defence Secretary Liam Fox used expenses to pay his best man Adam Werritty

Pathetic
Tory MP Liam Fox claims 3p on expenses for 100-metre car journey

More expense scandal
Conservative MPs repay expenses claimed for room service, hotels and late-payment charges

I notice you did not mention one single Labour politician when they were the worst offenders for expense's fraud. LIKE THE ONE THAT FIDDLED THE MOST AND CONVENIENTLY DIED BEFORE HE COULD BE CHARGED

... yes, remarkable, that ... eh ?? Expenses-fiddling was across all Parties .. obviously a culture of it had long existed in Parliament. Ah, but perhaps all the pro-EU people can 'somehow' be 'excused', when none of the others 'can' ... ??

 

[Drummond]

See this....

EU referendum: Cameron warns UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC News

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the European Union, David Cameron has warned.

The UK has regretted "turning its back" on Europe in the past, the PM said, arguing the European Union has "helped reconcile" countries and maintain peace.

Mr Cameron asked if leaving the union is a "risk worth taking".

Leave campaigners said Nato, not the EU, kept the UK safe and accused Downing Street of "losing the plot".

Smear tactics (.. as we've seen on this very thread !!). Now, via the media, a ridiculous scare monologue courtesy of our PM...... my my, aren't the pro-EU people getting desperate ?!? If theirs was the right path to take, none of such desperation would be either felt, nor indulged. Speaks for itself, surely ...

 

[Tommy Tainant]

See this....

EU referendum: Cameron warns UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC News

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the European Union, David Cameron has warned.

The UK has regretted "turning its back" on Europe in the past, the PM said, arguing the European Union has "helped reconcile" countries and maintain peace.

Mr Cameron asked if leaving the union is a "risk worth taking".

Leave campaigners said Nato, not the EU, kept the UK safe and accused Downing Street of "losing the plot".

Smear tactics. Now, a ridiculous scare monologue ...... my my, aren't the pro-EU people getting desperate ?? If theirs was the right path to take, none of such desperation would be either felt, nor indulged. Speaks for itself, surely ...

Here we can see that brexiters main claim is in fact bollox.

ONS To Knock Vote Leave’s £350m Fiction - InFacts

 

[Drummond]

See this....

EU referendum: Cameron warns UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC News

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the European Union, David Cameron has warned.

The UK has regretted "turning its back" on Europe in the past, the PM said, arguing the European Union has "helped reconcile" countries and maintain peace.

Mr Cameron asked if leaving the union is a "risk worth taking".

Leave campaigners said Nato, not the EU, kept the UK safe and accused Downing Street of "losing the plot".

Smear tactics. Now, a ridiculous scare monologue ...... my my, aren't the pro-EU people getting desperate ?? If theirs was the right path to take, none of such desperation would be either felt, nor indulged. Speaks for itself, surely ...

Here we can see that brexiters main claim is in fact bollox.

ONS To Knock Vote Leave’s £350m Fiction - InFacts

Yet to be determined, surely ? There's a lack of precision in the comparisons that might be drawn. And since when did the ONS publish data any more frequently than quarterly ?

NONE of this addresses how much better we may do, once we are rid of the EU's shackles. Trade with others could eclipse what we now have. You don't know otherwise, and nobody on the pro-EU side can possibly prove otherwise.

 

[anotherlife]

But none of them contribute.
Why should they have a voice ?
Why should we believe anything they say ?
You and your mates are just Murdochs puppets.

Oh, that's rich !! Calling me a 'puppet' ....

What you apparently just don't get, is that continued membership of the EU makes us ALL 'puppets' of a power that is NOT our OWN. We will never know stand-alone autonomy in our affairs, until the strings which bind us to EU diktats are cut, once and for all.

I refuse to be a puppet ... of any power, or authority, which isn't 'my own' ... so very much the case for that bunch of foreigners comprising the rest of the EU .... and it's YOU who's so intent on continuing to be one.

Don't worry, if you don't want to be the EU's puppet, you can be America's puppet or Russia's puppet. Is it better?

Gee, thanks ...

I fail to see why there's any expectation that the UK must be, should be, is liable to be, anyone's 'puppet'. The EU Referendum, if it's to serve any purpose, is to show the world that we will willingly throw off any shackles that makes us THEIR puppets. Why would we do that, if we didn't have pride in ourselves as a power wanting to govern - shock, horror !!! - OURSELVES ?

This is a very good answer, and I like the style. Too bad it is incorrect. The problem is that nobody is self governing. The last one to try this was the Soviet Union, with all its resources, and failed. So, newsflash, every country is a puppet. What matters is how much say you have in the brokering of power over your head. Separatism doesn't help this.

Subsuming your powers of Government DEFINITELY doesn't help !!

You're trying to make the point of political interdependence ? No doubt that's a Globalist's position, but I see nothing to stop the UK gaining independence from the EU, and so a new-found ability to pass its own laws unfettered by 'other masters'. True and total freedom may be illusory, BUT, we can gain a new and remarkably complete taste of it, if ONLY we snap the chain binding us to EU diktats.

Then you can check out the country of Iceland, practically a Russian colony. With a British "independence", the pound will be devalued enough to make purchase prices much higher, but not enough to make British exports cheap enough. That is a banking equation that absolutely must hold. The real problem is though, that you remove the roaming privileges of the ordinary working people of Britain. That is like 1000 years ago, the small feudal lords removed the roaming privileges of serfs. Or more recently the Soviet Union. A terrible idea. By the way, it will cause the fast break away of Scotland and Wales too, and you will see the EU border signs on the bridge to Cardiff, that you will need a visa for to use.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

See this....

EU referendum: Cameron warns UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC News

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the European Union, David Cameron has warned.

The UK has regretted "turning its back" on Europe in the past, the PM said, arguing the European Union has "helped reconcile" countries and maintain peace.

Mr Cameron asked if leaving the union is a "risk worth taking".

Leave campaigners said Nato, not the EU, kept the UK safe and accused Downing Street of "losing the plot".

Smear tactics. Now, a ridiculous scare monologue ...... my my, aren't the pro-EU people getting desperate ?? If theirs was the right path to take, none of such desperation would be either felt, nor indulged. Speaks for itself, surely ...

Here we can see that brexiters main claim is in fact bollox.

ONS To Knock Vote Leave’s £350m Fiction - InFacts

Yet to be determined, surely ? There's a lack of precision in the comparisons that might be drawn. And since when did the ONS publish data any more frequently than quarterly ?

NONE of this addresses how much better we may do, once we are rid of the EU's shackles. Trade with others could eclipse what we now have. You don't know otherwise, and nobody on the pro-EU side can possibly prove otherwise.

Shoulda, coulda,maybe,possibly. The fact is that you dont know and yet you are willing to risk what we have to keep a few Poles out. Its like a bunch of drunks get together on a rainy day at the Golf Club and start fantasising about the 50s. Absolute total bollocks.

 

[HenryBHough]

Tainted Tommy likes feeling subservient so it's only natural to jones to hand in with the EU and be ruled by Brusselscrats.

 

[Drummond]

Oh, that's rich !! Calling me a 'puppet' ....

What you apparently just don't get, is that continued membership of the EU makes us ALL 'puppets' of a power that is NOT our OWN. We will never know stand-alone autonomy in our affairs, until the strings which bind us to EU diktats are cut, once and for all.

I refuse to be a puppet ... of any power, or authority, which isn't 'my own' ... so very much the case for that bunch of foreigners comprising the rest of the EU .... and it's YOU who's so intent on continuing to be one.

Don't worry, if you don't want to be the EU's puppet, you can be America's puppet or Russia's puppet. Is it better?

Gee, thanks ...

I fail to see why there's any expectation that the UK must be, should be, is liable to be, anyone's 'puppet'. The EU Referendum, if it's to serve any purpose, is to show the world that we will willingly throw off any shackles that makes us THEIR puppets. Why would we do that, if we didn't have pride in ourselves as a power wanting to govern - shock, horror !!! - OURSELVES ?

This is a very good answer, and I like the style. Too bad it is incorrect. The problem is that nobody is self governing. The last one to try this was the Soviet Union, with all its resources, and failed. So, newsflash, every country is a puppet. What matters is how much say you have in the brokering of power over your head. Separatism doesn't help this.

Subsuming your powers of Government DEFINITELY doesn't help !!

You're trying to make the point of political interdependence ? No doubt that's a Globalist's position, but I see nothing to stop the UK gaining independence from the EU, and so a new-found ability to pass its own laws unfettered by 'other masters'. True and total freedom may be illusory, BUT, we can gain a new and remarkably complete taste of it, if ONLY we snap the chain binding us to EU diktats.

Then you can check out the country of Iceland, practically a Russian colony. With a British "independence", the pound will be devalued enough to make purchase prices much higher, but not enough to make British exports cheap enough. That is a banking equation that absolutely must hold. The real problem is though, that you remove the roaming privileges of the ordinary working people of Britain. That is like 1000 years ago, the small feudal lords removed the roaming privileges of serfs. Or more recently the Soviet Union. A terrible idea. By the way, it will cause the fast break away of Scotland and Wales too, and you will see the EU border signs on the bridge to Cardiff, that you will need a visa for to use.

Eh ? You think Iceland's 'practically' a Russian colony ? Since when ? I remember the days when Keflavik airport, Iceland's international airport, was co-run by the American airforce ... I recall the AWACS planes parked nearby,when I visited once !!

Anyway .. to all those still wanting to push the pro-EU argument, this might be of interest ...

 

[Drummond]

I see, now, that Germany exercised a 'blocking' veto over us, preventing us from making any headway with the EU in getting border control concessions ? Germany STOPPED us from having our border control !!

Incredible ...

Tommy ... answer this, if you can. What would your grandfather have thought of GERMANY dictating to us what control we can be allowed over our borders !!

Iain Duncan Smith: EU favours 'haves over the have-nots' - BBC News

Mr Duncan Smith's speech came after he told the Sun Germany had a "de facto veto" over David Cameron's EU renegotiations, with Angela Merkel blocking the PM's plans for an "emergency brake" on EU migration.

 

[Mindful]

I see, now, that Germany exercised a 'blocking' veto over us, preventing us from making any headway with the EU in getting border control concessions ? Germany STOPPED us from having our border control !!

Incredible ...

Tommy ... answer this, if you can. What would your grandfather have thought of GERMANY dictating to us what control we can be allowed over our borders !!

Iain Duncan Smith: EU favours 'haves over the have-nots' - BBC News

Mr Duncan Smith's speech came after he told the Sun Germany had a "de facto veto" over David Cameron's EU renegotiations, with Angela Merkel blocking the PM's plans for an "emergency brake" on EU migration.

I think, if Cameron had come back with the deal he should have, none of this furore would be happening.

 

[Drummond]

I see, now, that Germany exercised a 'blocking' veto over us, preventing us from making any headway with the EU in getting border control concessions ? Germany STOPPED us from having our border control !!

Incredible ...

Tommy ... answer this, if you can. What would your grandfather have thought of GERMANY dictating to us what control we can be allowed over our borders !!

Iain Duncan Smith: EU favours 'haves over the have-nots' - BBC News

Mr Duncan Smith's speech came after he told the Sun Germany had a "de facto veto" over David Cameron's EU renegotiations, with Angela Merkel blocking the PM's plans for an "emergency brake" on EU migration.

I think, if Cameron had come back with the deal he should have, none of this furore would be happening.

Well, of course. However, that wasn't really on the cards ... the EU as a whole would've never allowed him, or us, that degree of latitude. You see ... the EU isn't abut TAKING orders ... it's about GIVING them. The EU wants to rule all of its Member States ... it's ultimately that simple.

 

[Mindful]

I see, now, that Germany exercised a 'blocking' veto over us, preventing us from making any headway with the EU in getting border control concessions ? Germany STOPPED us from having our border control !!

Incredible ...

Tommy ... answer this, if you can. What would your grandfather have thought of GERMANY dictating to us what control we can be allowed over our borders !!

Iain Duncan Smith: EU favours 'haves over the have-nots' - BBC News

Mr Duncan Smith's speech came after he told the Sun Germany had a "de facto veto" over David Cameron's EU renegotiations, with Angela Merkel blocking the PM's plans for an "emergency brake" on EU migration.

I think, if Cameron had come back with the deal he should have, none of this furore would be happening.

Well, of course. However, that wasn't really on the cards ... the EU as a whole would've never allowed him, or us, that degree of latitude. You see ... the EU isn't abut TAKING orders ... it's about GIVING them. The EU wants to rule all of its Member States ... it's ultimately that simple.

I'd call them client states. France and Germany running the show.

 

[Phoenall]

See this....

EU referendum: Cameron warns UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC News

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the European Union, David Cameron has warned.

The UK has regretted "turning its back" on Europe in the past, the PM said, arguing the European Union has "helped reconcile" countries and maintain peace.

Mr Cameron asked if leaving the union is a "risk worth taking".

Leave campaigners said Nato, not the EU, kept the UK safe and accused Downing Street of "losing the plot".

Smear tactics. Now, a ridiculous scare monologue ...... my my, aren't the pro-EU people getting desperate ?? If theirs was the right path to take, none of such desperation would be either felt, nor indulged. Speaks for itself, surely ...

Here we can see that brexiters main claim is in fact bollox.

ONS To Knock Vote Leave’s £350m Fiction - InFacts

So instead of £350 million a week it is only £283 million a week, so still enough to build an NHS hospital. Now if you look closely at the tables you see that in fact the UK is fined about the same as the rebate. Then the refusal of Brussels to allow the UK government to claw back fraudulent claims from EU citizens means that we are in fact losing even more. If we leave the EU we will be sending EU criminals back to their country of origin and the EU will not be able to stop it from happening. The cost of all the court cases, legal aid and then the imprisonment for the term of their sentence. We have enough of our own criminals without importing thousands more from foreign nations.


So no fiction until you fraudsters realise that your hand outs are going to stop and you will have to get a job to support yourself.

 

[Phoenall]

Oh, that's rich !! Calling me a 'puppet' ....

What you apparently just don't get, is that continued membership of the EU makes us ALL 'puppets' of a power that is NOT our OWN. We will never know stand-alone autonomy in our affairs, until the strings which bind us to EU diktats are cut, once and for all.

I refuse to be a puppet ... of any power, or authority, which isn't 'my own' ... so very much the case for that bunch of foreigners comprising the rest of the EU .... and it's YOU who's so intent on continuing to be one.

Don't worry, if you don't want to be the EU's puppet, you can be America's puppet or Russia's puppet. Is it better?

Gee, thanks ...

I fail to see why there's any expectation that the UK must be, should be, is liable to be, anyone's 'puppet'. The EU Referendum, if it's to serve any purpose, is to show the world that we will willingly throw off any shackles that makes us THEIR puppets. Why would we do that, if we didn't have pride in ourselves as a power wanting to govern - shock, horror !!! - OURSELVES ?

This is a very good answer, and I like the style. Too bad it is incorrect. The problem is that nobody is self governing. The last one to try this was the Soviet Union, with all its resources, and failed. So, newsflash, every country is a puppet. What matters is how much say you have in the brokering of power over your head. Separatism doesn't help this.

Subsuming your powers of Government DEFINITELY doesn't help !!

You're trying to make the point of political interdependence ? No doubt that's a Globalist's position, but I see nothing to stop the UK gaining independence from the EU, and so a new-found ability to pass its own laws unfettered by 'other masters'. True and total freedom may be illusory, BUT, we can gain a new and remarkably complete taste of it, if ONLY we snap the chain binding us to EU diktats.

Then you can check out the country of Iceland, practically a Russian colony. With a British "independence", the pound will be devalued enough to make purchase prices much higher, but not enough to make British exports cheap enough. That is a banking equation that absolutely must hold. The real problem is though, that you remove the roaming privileges of the ordinary working people of Britain. That is like 1000 years ago, the small feudal lords removed the roaming privileges of serfs. Or more recently the Soviet Union. A terrible idea. By the way, it will cause the fast break away of Scotland and Wales too, and you will see the EU border signs on the bridge to Cardiff, that you will need a visa for to use.

Hardly likely as far too many nations rely on the UK exports to survive.

The EU has already said that there is no straight forward way of entry by Scotland or any other union nation. They will have to come to the table with something positive, and having water and sheep is not positive.

 

[Challenger]

I see, now, that Germany exercised a 'blocking' veto over us, preventing us from making any headway with the EU in getting border control concessions ? Germany STOPPED us from having our border control !!

Incredible ...

Tommy ... answer this, if you can. What would your grandfather have thought of GERMANY dictating to us what control we can be allowed over our borders !!

Iain Duncan Smith: EU favours 'haves over the have-nots' - BBC News

Mr Duncan Smith's speech came after he told the Sun Germany had a "de facto veto" over David Cameron's EU renegotiations, with Angela Merkel blocking the PM's plans for an "emergency brake" on EU migration.

I think, if Cameron had come back with the deal he should have, none of this furore would be happening.

Well, of course. However, that wasn't really on the cards ... the EU as a whole would've never allowed him, or us, that degree of latitude. You see ... the EU isn't abut TAKING orders ... it's about GIVING them. The EU wants to rule all of its Member States ... it's ultimately that simple.

What's wrong with a strong, united Europe? The UK could equally end up giving orders to Germany; just needs a bit of diplomacy and engagement...Oh, forgot, we've a tory government, so that's not going to happen anytime soon.