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You are a mod free to delete any post of mine, or lock the thread entirely, if it’s not going your way. Why would I enter into such an unbalanced debate? I wouldn’t go into the boxing ring with Mike Tyson, either, who could “delete” me permanently with one punch.
You realize we have been debating extensively and civily in this now long thread for quite some time, right?you
No, but you’ve called me a racist, or implied it quite directly many times in the past, and I won’t debate with someone who already has such a pre-conceived, false, and extremely negative opinion of me.
All good questions for when I return from an engagement.Ok. That is a reasonable concern.
Of course you are going to get all kinds of crazy numbers thrown out at the beginning. What they begin with and end with are two different things and shouldn’t obscure the central point in this: the government deprived a group of people of their Constitutional and civil rights and some of redress is needed. When reparations were decided for Japanese Americans, a relatively small amount (nothing compared to their actual losses in some cases) was agreed on along with an apology by the President and a few other monetary things.
How would it Bankrupt White people? Why only White people?
Some will, some won’t. What you are out is also the importance of an acknowledgement of wrong and an apology. The cash amount is going to be token no matter what. But can’t discuss amounts with first acknowledging that some form of reparations are owed.
Report it. I am involved in this and not moderating it.@ Coyote.
This post, calling me a racist, is not only a nasty false attack, but in violation of Zone 1 rules. Please delete his crap.
It’s unfortunate, because I thought you and I were starting to make headway, given the non-hostile tone of your last message, and I was about to respond when IM2 comes out with his blatant attacks. Please try to get a hold of him. His attitude is actually setting back race relations.
Yeah, hasn’t been bad….and getting better. As I said, I’m off now for a bit but will return.That makes no sense. For one, if you are worried, if we entered a debate in that format, another mod would need to moderate. I think you are making excuses for would be an interesting exercise for BOTH of us. I would argue AGAINST reparations and you would argue FOR reparations. We would both need to make a good faith effort in order for this to work.
You realize we have been debating extensively and cicely in this now long thread for quite some time, right?
You just keep repeating the same tired points my friend and insist on destroying context by chopping up posts which I have told you is not pleasing or constructive to me. We aren't going to agree on this. I think leftist mentality, whether coming from black or white or any other people, to be destructive both to the human spirit and personally to whatever group they target for their so-called 'help.'Japanese Americans fought for 40 years for reparations. Was that race baiting?
Pretend? I honestly don’t know what to say about this statement.
Did you read the first hand account I posted? That wasn’t isolated, that was typical of the very real dangers they faced that people like you or I never thought twice about.
The fact that they HAD to have a green book should tell how very bad things were! Did white people need a green book? You can make good arguments for why we shouldn’t give reparations but trying minimalize what they faced is not a good argument.
Gas stations, diners and hotels did not have to serve Blacks. Some locations were known as “sunset towns” because Blacks had to get out by sunset or they could be lynched. Keep in mi d we did not have the convenient interstate system we do today so wasn’t always possible to avoid these areas. As one account stated you just filled up on gas and drove without stopping praying you’d get to someplace safe by sunset.
Technically you are correct, they weren’t “excluded” from trains. But is this much better? Are you going to say they should be grateful?
From Jim Crow to Now: On the Realities of Traveling While Black
In 1922 Joseph K. Bowler told a reporter for the Chicago Defender that he never ventured to the South without a “Jim Crow traveling kit.” Designed to allow Bowler, a minister who lived in Massachus…lithub.com
The numbers aren't crazy. We are talking about a minimum of 100 years of lost earnings along with the associated pain and suffering.Of course you are going to get all kinds of crazy numbers thrown out at the beginning. What they begin with and end with are two different things and shouldn’t obscure the central point in this: the government deprived a group of people of their Constitutional and civil rights and some of redress is needed. When reparations were decided for Japanese Americans, a relatively small amount (nothing compared to their actual losses in some cases) was agreed on along with an apology by the President and a few other monetary things.
We can certainly agree to disagree (which we clearly do). I don’t view this from a do-good er perspective at all (and this is what Rightists keep missing when it comes to BlackAmericans) - I view it from a justice perspective. It isn’t about the money, it is about acknowledging and apologizing for the wrong that was done and as with the Japanese Americans, cash is a token. The more I read about life under Jim Crowe, the more I’m convinced. Others may see it differently.You just keep repeating the same tired points my friend and insist on destroying context by chopping up posts which I have told you is not pleasing or constructive to me. We aren't going to agree on this. I think leftist mentality, whether coming from black or white or any other people, to be destructive both to the human spirit and personally to whatever group they target for their so-called 'help.'
Progressivism has harmed the black community far more than Jim Crow laws did. Under Jim Crow most black children lived in a traditional home with a mom and dad and the black community benefitted from institutions that affirmed and helped them. The civil rights do-gooders tore all that down, destroyed the black family, dismantled those institutions and put black people in a perpetual victim state where they are desperately trying to keep them now to keep them voting Democrat.
To do away with Jim Crow and all discriminatory laws was a very good thing. And for 60 years now black people have not been hindered with such disadvantages. It is time to allow black people to be American citizens on equal footing with all other American citizens. Stop victimizing them by demanding they and everybody else see them as victims. Please.
BS.You just keep repeating the same tired points my friend and insist on destroying context by chopping up posts which I have told you is not pleasing or constructive to me. We aren't going to agree on this. I think leftist mentality, whether coming from black or white or any other people, to be destructive both to the human spirit and personally to whatever group they target for their so-called 'help.'
Progressivism has harmed the black community far more than Jim Crow laws did. Under Jim Crow most black children lived in a traditional home with a mom and dad and the black community benefitted from institutions that affirmed and helped them. The civil rights do-gooders tore all that down, destroyed the black family, dismantled those institutions and put black people in a perpetual victim state where they are desperately trying to keep them now to keep them voting Democrat.
To do away with Jim Crow and all discriminatory laws was a very good thing. And for 60 years now black people have not been hindered with such disadvantages. It is time to allow black people to be American citizens on equal footing with all other American citizens. Stop victimizing them by demanding they and everybody else see them as victims. Please.
Did you notice that he book also covers BERMUDA, CANADA and MEXICO? Bermuda was mostly black back then, Canada was a sanctuary for blacks during slavery and Mexico never had black slavery. Why would the green book cover those countries?The Negro Motorist Green Book, popularly known as the Green Book, was a travel guide intended to help African American motorists avoid social obstacles prevalent during the period of racial segregation, commonly referred to as Jim Crow. The Green Book listed businesses that would accept African American customers.
View attachment 881916
The Negro Motorist Green Book (1936-1964) •
The Negro Motorist Green Book, popularly known as the Green Book, was a travel guide intended to help African American motorists avoid social obstacles prevalent during the period of racial segregation, commonly referred to as Jim Crow. The Green Book listed businesses that would accept … Read...www.blackpast.org
The Negro Motorist Green Book, 1949 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
The Negro Motorist Green Book, 1949,from http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Race/R_Casestudy/Negro_motorist_green_bk.htmand a history of it from: ...archive.org
The numbers aren't crazy. We are talking about a minimum of 100 years of lost earnings along with the associated pain and suffering.
I think government programs in the past need to left out of the equation unless they were exclusively targeted to Blacks.Japanese were interred for 3 years and Japanese got 25,000 each for those 3 years. Now multiply that 25,000 by 33 and you can create a payment for individual blacks that were affected by Jim Crow.
People here are ignoring facts because blacks are presenting them and repeating the same siilly arguments. It has been shown that the federal government spent more than ONE MILLION TRILLION dollars on housingpolicies/programs that benefitted whites and excluded blacks between 1930's-1980's.
Blacks should get the same funding for similar programs over a similar 50 year period.
theconversation.com
Because it is all travel.Did you notice that he book also covers BERMUDA, CANADA and MEXICO? Bermuda was mostly black back then, Canada was a sanctuary for blacks during slavery and Mexico never had black slavery. Why would the green book cover those countries?
You need to prove that allegation. You have never managed to find a single other example. Plus, this person would have been fired and likely prosecuted if his employer had found out about his conduct.BS.
Why is it that some whites ignore alll the preferences they have been given.
You say that for 60 years we have no been hindered. Really?
“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.
Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid “affirmative action” hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental“diversity” demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic nameis probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time. Glad I did it. I would do it again.”
According to you this ended in the 1960's. But this comment was made in 2020 and this person is not the only white American doing this.
In places that never had Jim Crow or discriminated against blacks.Because it is all travel.
It's not that difficult and it can be for an annual amount for programs with a date certain with a 1 time payment to individuals. Whites have not minded paying that 1 million trillion over 50 years to create the white middle class and to build white wealth.. Americans paid for that. So given the fact that Americans paid for white progress, equal protection says that Americans pay for the same progress for Asians, Blacks, Hispanics and Natve Americans.I’ve seen cases made for it but I think it ignores what Americans are going to be willing to agree to or what the government can reasonably be expected to pay. I also think you have a much harder case to make going back to slavery rather than Jim Crowe where there are peop,e still alive who were harmed. JMO.
I think government programs in the past need to left out of the equation unless they were exclusively targeted to Blacks.
Reparation could also be done along with a mix of programs and cash too.
It took Japanese Americans 40 years … and from this article, several factors are mentioned that caused them to ultimately win including the fact it was a small population and a relatively amount, making it more acceptable to Americans. That’s something to consider.
Why Japanese-Americans received reparations and African-Americans are still waiting
Social movement theory helps to explain why Japanese-Americans received reparations but the same will be much more challenging to provide for African-Americans.
Not in the part where my dad and uncle grew up.
I'm sorry Coyote, I forgot this part.I think government programs in the past need to left out of the equation unless they were exclusively targeted to Blacks.
Reparation could also be done along with a mix of programs and cash too.
It took Japanese Americans 40 years … and from this article, several factors are mentioned that caused them to ultimately win including the fact it was a small population and a relatively amount, making it more acceptable to Americans. That’s something to consider.
www.blackpast.org
There is a large housing project just a few blocks from where my Dad grew up, and the crime is rampant. It’s not a new project - it was there in the 1960s when I was a kid, but it was filled with law-abiding poor, elderly immigrants (mostly Jewish and Italian), but now it is all black and with lots of crime.Really, when was the last time you were there?
The streets are littered with white tulips from suburbia.
There is a large housing project just a few blocks from where my Dad grew up, and the crime is rampant. It’s not a new project - it was there in the 1960s when I was a kid, but it was filled with law-abiding poor, elderly immigrants (mostly Jewish and Italian), but now it is all black and with lots of crime.
