Building the wall is the most critical political issue in America, we must do it

[kaz]

There is something wrong with them, yes. There is no reason to be poor in this country. It's within the power of every American who does not have mental issues to not be poor.

And the majority of those people are white, grand wizard

Sure it is.

Yup. Anyone who studies in school can go to college. Anyone who cleans themselves up and works hard at work can keep getting better jobs. Being poor in this country is a choice that you make through poor decisions to keep yourself poor

You are wrong. I'm gonna go with intentionally wrong cuz it's the only way you can justify your utter disdain for entire groups of people. It is even worse than being wrong due to being a moron.

The chances of moving up the economic ladder in the US are 2nd worst in the industrialized world, only England lags behind the US. There is very little economic mobility in this country.

mention raising min wage and RW's crap flames ... Juan got the $7 an hour job that Americans refuse to take.

They didn't refuse to take it because of the minimum wage. They refused to take it because in your example Juan took it for $7 an hour.

My God, why would you want to inflict your horrible government school education on your children?

 

[LoneLaugher]

They are all races, but they are not NORMAL in your view.

There is something wrong with them, yes. There is no reason to be poor in this country. It's within the power of every American who does not have mental issues to not be poor.

And the majority of those people are white, grand wizard

Sure it is.

Yup. Anyone who studies in school can go to college. Anyone who cleans themselves up and works hard at work can keep getting better jobs. Being poor in this country is a choice that you make through poor decisions to keep yourself poor

You are wrong. I'm gonna go with intentionally wrong cuz it's the only way you can justify your utter disdain for entire groups of people. It is even worse than being wrong due to being a moron.

So now you think I hate white people? What a stupid douche

I said no such thing. But, now that you mention it, I think you hate liberal white people. And poor white people. But, you prefer them to brown liberal people and brown poor people. That's not hard to see.

 

[kaz]

Sure it is.

Yup. Anyone who studies in school can go to college. Anyone who cleans themselves up and works hard at work can keep getting better jobs. Being poor in this country is a choice that you make through poor decisions to keep yourself poor

You are wrong. I'm gonna go with intentionally wrong cuz it's the only way you can justify your utter disdain for entire groups of people. It is even worse than being wrong due to being a moron.

The chances of moving up the economic ladder in the US are 2nd worst in the industrialized world, only England lags behind the US. There is very little economic mobility in this country.

mention raising min wage and RW's crap flames ... Juan got the $7 an hour job that Americans refuse to take.

If Juan weren't here, most of the agricultural jobs he is doing would be done by machines, which would boost sales for the equipment makers, providing good paying manufacturing jobs for Americans and better paying agricultural jobs for those few agricultural workers still needed.

Yep. Or they'd have to pay market rates and the poor in this country would earn better wages

 

[Pogo]

A million Mexicans walk up to a reinforced concrete 30 foot wall dug down into the ground. With electric monitoring and surveillance and thousands of more border control agents.

They laugh and say wow, that might as well not be there at all!

Then they proceed to ___ and the million illegal aliens enter the United States ...

So Pogo: You fill in the blank.

Okay.

A million Mexicans..... walk up to a bar. A long horizontal bar of reinforced concrete and dug into the ground.

Before they order a cerveza, they stop to gape in wonder at how such a structure could be dug into the Rio Grande River.

The next thing they do is look among themselves and say (in Spanish) "what the fuck are we doing here? Even the United States knows that most illegal immigrants go in via legitimate everyday means and then overstay their visas!"

Then they give the finger to the cartoonist that drew them there and return home, content in the knowledge that their foray to the border never did exist except in the comic book fantasies of message board Rumpbots who line up to buy any mindless snake oil the Orange Oaf sells them.

What's particularly funny about you leftists is you think the electronic monitoring and surveillance and more border agents will work without the wall, but it won't work with it!

Not sure who "you leftists" are but I (which is singular) have never posted anything about "electronic monitoring and surveillance" with or without "more border agents" so once again, posting apparently to the comic book.

Of which here comes an example right now.....

hat I think building a wall and defending it is more efficient than the military chasing thousands of people across the desert every night

"thousands of people every night" huh.
But I repeat myself about Gullibles' Travels....

 

[kaz]

And again, your argument is the military can stop them, but IF and ONLY IF we don't build a wall. That's just stupid

No, my argument is that the military can stop them more effective and cheaper than a wall that we do not need if we would first go after the companies paying them and created a realist, workable guest worker program that benefited both side.

But you want the wall and nothing else matters.

Strawman. I'm for that and never said I wasn't. We need to do EVERYTHING to stop illegal immigration here. Here's the thing. Proposing one thing is not saying I oppose everything else

Every time it has been mentioned by anyone you ignore ti and go of on some rant about NORMAL people. This is the first time you have even acknowledged it as an idea put forth, and were very careful not to endorse it directly.

Dear kaz and Golfing Gator
I agree that it will take more than just a wall.
Both for security reasons and for unity between people states and parties
to agree and focus on a unifying solution. We need to spell out more of the plans.

kaz I'm glad you see there needs to be SERIOUS support
for any such alternatives to work. The problem with Dems is that they
keep asking for things, but not showing any responsibility for how to build these solutions.
It's as if they are CLUELESS how much work, labor, time and resources are involved,
such as in promising "universal health care" -- when I brought up the realization that
it will take having hospitals in every county or district to meet the full demand because
people are already dying while waiting in line for care as it is, I get blank stares.
They want to ask for the carts without counting how many horses it will take
to pull that many people.

Golfing Gator and I both agree and envision there needs to be military
development along the border. So we can build jobs around that.
Gov Schwarzenegger had proposed to build prisons in Mexico
to accommodate Mexican nationals costing CA billions in resources every year.

So the military can be in charge of guarding prisons that will create
complexes, and cities can be built around that.

kaz just building a wall is like liberals yelling that "agreeing to global warming arguments"
is going to magically save the planet. No, it still takes all the work to stop pollution
and save resources. Whether we give a FLIP about global warming or walls or whatever.

We need more than that.

If you are waiting on "someone else" to lead a movement kaz
then that's also like liberals waiting on party or depending on govt.

What it is going to take is everyone supporting solutions, organizing
with our local party precincts, finding out who is leading or working
either for or against Trump, Democrats, Republicans, and asking
all these people, whether taxpayers or future leaders, to invest
DONATIONS into CREATING JOBS not more campaigns!

Here are model programs we can cite and ask to create JOBS
for leaders, dreamers, workers, veterans, students, etc
organizing sustainable Development along the border:

www.paceuniversal.com
Pace Universal builds schools and daycares to create safe jobs and centers for
women children and workers in regions otherwise exploited for trafficking

UTRGV - <system-page-title/>
UT at Brownsville already HAS an international student program that CROSSES the BORDER
what a concept

www.campusplan.org
Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee signed on to this innovative plan
to transform public housing into sustainable community campuses,
creating onsite programs for student interns to earn their education
while providing assistance and services to families to break the cycle of poverty
and get people off welfare instead of growing more dependent on govt and handouts

the expanded plan to restore the historic district
of Freedmen's Town into a campus for teaching self government
through business management of property and programs was
already posted www.freedmenstown.com

and replicating that plan along the border
might look like this www.earnedamnesty.org

So anyone can take these links and ask more party members and leaders
to start investing "campaign donations" into actually BUILDING
similar solutions within EACH DISTRICT. Then we can do the
same across states, nations, and the border. Build locally, expand globally.

kaz if you agree with any of these ideas, or you have
better ones, then take those to your local party leaders,
ask for a conference between parties and how to use
the Electoral College District system to set up meetings
with parties and start working out common proposals.

Instead of parties competing to raise money to OUTVOTE
each other at the polls, why not invest our resources
DIRECTLY in solutions that would CREATE JOBS FOR
ALL PARTIES, not just one office that several people can't all hold!

I'm for military support of the wall, just not as a replacement for it. The military trying to chase almost 3K illegal aliens around the desert as Gator proposes a night is insane. And he wants that not because he believes it will work, but because he knows it won't. The opposite of why he opposes the wall.

And Trump is already there advocating the wall. Why would I go grass roots for something that is already in the White House? That's why after not voting for Trump I'm advocating him and his ideas.

And contrary to the lies of the left, he isn't just proposing a wall, he's proposing electronic security, more border agents, a focus on Visa overstays. We have to do all of those things to secure our border

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And again, your argument is the military can stop them, but IF and ONLY IF we don't build a wall. That's just stupid

No, my argument is that the military can stop them more effective and cheaper than a wall that we do not need if we would first go after the companies paying them and created a realist, workable guest worker program that benefited both side.

But you want the wall and nothing else matters.

Strawman. I'm for that and never said I wasn't. We need to do EVERYTHING to stop illegal immigration here. Here's the thing. Proposing one thing is not saying I oppose everything else

Every time it has been mentioned by anyone you ignore ti and go of on some rant about NORMAL people. This is the first time you have even acknowledged it as an idea put forth, and were very careful not to endorse it directly.

You're a liar, I don't ignore other proposals. You just made that up.

I'm totally for a major guest worker program. But not until we solve the problem of people coming here with visas and not leaving when they expire.

Besides the wall, we need to clean things up then implement jail time for anyone here illegally. Minimum three months for a first offense.

And your idea to have the military chase thousands of people around the desert would be insanely expensive. We'd burn through $20 billion in months, and the $20 billion is one time to build the wall. Maintaining it would be far cheaper than that a year

Treason Is Not a Property Right

Our Navy can easily seize the offshore Mexican oilfields, which will pay for the wall. By encouraging and aiding its citizens to invade us, Mexico has committed an act of war. American traitors who have gone along with this must pay the price.

It's time we take the law back into our own hands; it's obvious that letting the ruling class and its anti-democratic Constitution protect us hasn't been working for decades.

 

[kaz]

Seriously? How many nights will cover the military chasing a thousand people a night across the desert cover?

You keep repeating the lie of a thousand people a night across the desert cover. If you take away their reason for coming, the only ones crossing will be the ones here to do harm, and there are not thousand of those a night.

Let me ask you this, do you see illegal immigration as a threat to our nation?

Do the math...he’s not far off with his figure of speech that you’ve taken literally...Bear in mind the numbers are way down.

“Border Patrol agents nabbed 16,089 illegal immigrants trying to sneak in, while Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers identified another 5,570 illegal immigrants who showed up without authorization at the ports of entry.
The combined 21,659 illegal immigrants are still the lowest numbers for June in years, but the spike is worrisome because illegal immigration generally begins to slow in the summer months. Indeed, the last four years saw an average drop of 10 percent in Border Patrol apprehensions in June — but this year saw an 11 percent rise.“
Illegal immigration spikes along U.S.-Mexico border

Border crossings down is a recent, short term phenomena which even if it lasted through Trump would end when he leaves. Which is what Gator and the leftists are counting on, that we don't solve the problem.

Also, it's the ones who aren't bad that aren't coming. Trump isn't scaring murderers, rapists, drug dealers, gun dealers or any other criminals.

But 1,000,000 / 365 = 2,740.

Even if you reduce that by 2/3, it's over 900 people a night average

 

[dblack]

You think there should be no referee in the game of business but that's ridiculous.

Nah. We need a referee. The problem is when government wants to be the coach.

 

[Pogo]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

I voted third party in every election since 1996, will continue that trend in 2020.

We do not need a wall, building a wall is moving backwards, not forwards. Trump wants a wall because he wants a viable, physical monument to his greatness and a wall is the only way he will get one.

According to Trump himself border crossings are down 80%, and that is without a wall and without a significant increase in the Border Patrol.

The wall is an expense we do not have the money to pay for and it will just become a bigger and bigger expense each year as the maintenance cost on it grow with time and age of the wall.

If you wish to control our southern border to keep the evil brown people out there are three easy steps to do it.

First, use our military for its base purpose, to defend the country. We have roughly 97,000 troops in Europe. Bring half of them home and station them along the border and give them the task of protecting the border.

Second, punish harshly those companies in the US that employ illegal immigrants. Make an example out of a couple of bigger companies and make it so painful that no other company will take the chance of using illegal immigrants as labor.

Third, have a real guest worker program so that those industries that do rely on cheaper labor (agricultural comes to mind) have access to those willing to work.

If you do the 2nd and 3rd thing then the only people trying to sneak across the border are people with ill intent and then they become easy targets for the military guarding the border.

On a side note, wanting to build a wall to keep the non-whites is about the most anti-libertarian thing I have seen in a long time. Thank you for dropping the charade.

How doesn’t the wall pay for itself over time?
You must be doing different math than we are...would you mind walking us through your arithmetic?

When you spend twenty billion bucks, plus future maintenance which is considerable, on a fantasy wall that ignores the reality of where illicit immigration comes from in the first place and therefore has little effect --- where exactly is your ROI on that?

Remember the mantra: "You don't sell products, benefits or solutions ---- you sell FEELINGS". That's what the wall is. It's already been sold, and you lot bought it. The wall isn't an actual wall, it's a fantasy sold to the gullible And Mexico didn't pay for it -- the rest of us in this country did.

A million Mexicans walk up to a reinforced concrete 30 foot wall dug down into the ground.

They laugh and say wow, that might as well not be there at all!

Then they proceed to ___ and the million illegal aliens enter the United States ...

You fill in the blank

Buy plane tickets. Go around the wall. Enter through a border check point.

Zackly, which is how most of it happens. But cracking down on visa overstays doesn't sell nearly as well as an image of a thousands-of-miles-long "wall" that "Mexico will pay for".

Easy to imagine and sell to the intellectually mouth-agape ---- not so easy to make a reality.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The chances of moving up the economic ladder in the US are 2nd worst in the industrialized world, only England lags behind the US. There is very little economic mobility in this country.

mention raising min wage and RW's crap flames ... Juan got the $7 an hour job that Americans refuse to take.

If Juan weren't here, most of the agricultural jobs he is doing would be done by machines, which would boost sales for the equipment makers, providing good paying manufacturing jobs for Americans and better paying agricultural jobs for those few agricultural workers still needed.

Many ag products are not suitable for machines to harvest.

Here is a strawberry picking machine....

No, here is a strawberry picking machine.

Have you ever been in a large scale strawberry farm? they are not growing that that high off the ground and that far apart.

Of course, and the land would have to be reconfigured to accommodate the machine, just as roads were paved to accommodate the automobile, but once that has been done and the cost of the equipment and reconfiguration has be amortized over the life of the machine, it should cost less to harvest strawberries and the modernization of harvesting will give a boost to the equipment manufacturers. The point is there is no need for illegal agricultural migrants in America. If you want to advocate for illegal immigrants for other reasons, go ahead, but don't pretend we need them.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And again, your argument is the military can stop them, but IF and ONLY IF we don't build a wall. That's just stupid

No, my argument is that the military can stop them more effective and cheaper than a wall that we do not need if we would first go after the companies paying them and created a realist, workable guest worker program that benefited both side.

But you want the wall and nothing else matters.

Strawman. I'm for that and never said I wasn't. We need to do EVERYTHING to stop illegal immigration here. Here's the thing. Proposing one thing is not saying I oppose everything else

Every time it has been mentioned by anyone you ignore ti and go of on some rant about NORMAL people. This is the first time you have even acknowledged it as an idea put forth, and were very careful not to endorse it directly.

Dear kaz and Golfing Gator
I agree that it will take more than just a wall.
Both for security reasons and for unity between people states and parties
to agree and focus on a unifying solution. We need to spell out more of the plans.

kaz I'm glad you see there needs to be SERIOUS support
for any such alternatives to work. The problem with Dems is that they
keep asking for things, but not showing any responsibility for how to build these solutions.
It's as if they are CLUELESS how much work, labor, time and resources are involved,
such as in promising "universal health care" -- when I brought up the realization that
it will take having hospitals in every county or district to meet the full demand because
people are already dying while waiting in line for care as it is, I get blank stares.
They want to ask for the carts without counting how many horses it will take
to pull that many people.

Golfing Gator and I both agree and envision there needs to be military
development along the border. So we can build jobs around that.
Gov Schwarzenegger had proposed to build prisons in Mexico
to accommodate Mexican nationals costing CA billions in resources every year.

So the military can be in charge of guarding prisons that will create
complexes, and cities can be built around that.

kaz just building a wall is like liberals yelling that "agreeing to global warming arguments"
is going to magically save the planet. No, it still takes all the work to stop pollution
and save resources. Whether we give a FLIP about global warming or walls or whatever.

We need more than that.

If you are waiting on "someone else" to lead a movement kaz
then that's also like liberals waiting on party or depending on govt.

What it is going to take is everyone supporting solutions, organizing
with our local party precincts, finding out who is leading or working
either for or against Trump, Democrats, Republicans, and asking
all these people, whether taxpayers or future leaders, to invest
DONATIONS into CREATING JOBS not more campaigns!

Here are model programs we can cite and ask to create JOBS
for leaders, dreamers, workers, veterans, students, etc
organizing sustainable Development along the border:

www.paceuniversal.com
Pace Universal builds schools and daycares to create safe jobs and centers for
women children and workers in regions otherwise exploited for trafficking

UTRGV - <system-page-title/>
UT at Brownsville already HAS an international student program that CROSSES the BORDER
what a concept

www.campusplan.org
Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee signed on to this innovative plan
to transform public housing into sustainable community campuses,
creating onsite programs for student interns to earn their education
while providing assistance and services to families to break the cycle of poverty
and get people off welfare instead of growing more dependent on govt and handouts

the expanded plan to restore the historic district
of Freedmen's Town into a campus for teaching self government
through business management of property and programs was
already posted www.freedmenstown.com

and replicating that plan along the border
might look like this www.earnedamnesty.org

So anyone can take these links and ask more party members and leaders
to start investing "campaign donations" into actually BUILDING
similar solutions within EACH DISTRICT. Then we can do the
same across states, nations, and the border. Build locally, expand globally.

kaz if you agree with any of these ideas, or you have
better ones, then take those to your local party leaders,
ask for a conference between parties and how to use
the Electoral College District system to set up meetings
with parties and start working out common proposals.

Instead of parties competing to raise money to OUTVOTE
each other at the polls, why not invest our resources
DIRECTLY in solutions that would CREATE JOBS FOR
ALL PARTIES, not just one office that several people can't all hold!

I'm for military support of the wall, just not as a replacement for it. The military trying to chase almost 3K illegal aliens around the desert as Gator proposes a night is insane. And he wants that not because he believes it will work, but because he knows it won't. The opposite of why he opposes the wall.

And Trump is already there advocating the wall. Why would I go grass roots for something that is already in the White House? That's why after not voting for Trump I'm advocating him and his ideas.

And contrary to the lies of the left, he isn't just proposing a wall, he's proposing electronic security, more border agents, a focus on Visa overstays. We have to do all of those things to secure our border

Think About the Objections You Are Told to Recite

For every border bandito we kill, thousands will be scared into vamoosing. It is illogical to think of numbers on each side when the power of a lethal solution is magnified far beyond the individual incident.

 

[kaz]

Seriously? How many nights will cover the military chasing a thousand people a night across the desert cover?

You keep repeating the lie of a thousand people a night across the desert cover. If you take away their reason for coming, the only ones crossing will be the ones here to do harm, and there are not thousand of those a night.

Let me ask you this, do you see illegal immigration as a threat to our nation?

Bull shit. 1 million illegal aliens come here across the southern border a year. That is almost 2,740 people a night on average, which is by definition "thousands"

Link for your number please.

And you keep ignoring the fact that if they had nobody willing to pay them, most would not come. But you, again, refuse to even talk about that side of it. Why is that?

And you keep ignoring that this doesn't affect the violent criminals or the drug dealers? Why is that?

And I agreed with you that we need to punish people who hire illegal aliens, you stupid cvnt. Try to follow a discussion

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

You didn’t vote? Then I’ve lost all respect for you loser.

I voted for Gary Johnson, liar. I never said I didn't vote.

And you are why I make people identify themselves. You're a leftist socialist and you claim to have voted for Trump. What a load

Did I rig your results?

No, but you're obviously dishonest as you do nothing but argue for Democrats and Democrat policies all day long

i have a thread titles I'm a Republican now. Clearly I'm not a Republican now. BUT, I make some good points why I have abandoned the Democratic party. Why do I care about poor people when 80% of them don't even vote? The 80% deserve to be poor and don't deserve any attention from any politicians. THey need to understand if you don't vote you don't matter.

I'll be ok if Republicans get their way. I'd prefer Democrats be in charge but if poor people like you want Republicans then I won't stop you from shooting yourself in the foot.

You were a Republican because you're a socialist who wanted to help poor people and you left the Republican party because they wouldn't vote?

WTF?

You need to call time out, get your shit together, and try again

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Yes comrade, it's the corporations and the rich, the bourgeois is oppressing the proletariat.

Actually, you study in school, you can go to college. Period. And you clean yourself up, work at your job, you will keep getting better paying jobs. You save, you live below your means. You won't be poor.

Explain in your Marxist mind how that isn't true

Just simply not true, no matter how many knute rockne speeches you give. It is not about having a marixt mind, it is about having a mind that actually works and one that understands the statistics of the matter, so that leaves you out of luck once again.

The chances of moving out of the class you are born into are terrible in this country, the 2nd worst in the industrialized world.

 

[kaz]

I voted for Gary Johnson....

Who called Trump's wall "asinine".

So your standard is you only vote for people you agree with on every issue? Wow, what a stupid standard. Is that seriously your point?

Trumps not capitalistic enough for you?

No, he's not. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism and Trump is not for free trade.

"Fair" trade is a euphemism for government controlled trade. That and that Trump has been a pig to women is why I voted for Gary Johnson

I disagree with you libertarians. You think there should be no referee in the game of business but that's ridiculous.

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

Swish.

Totally wrong. We think specifically there should be a referee. We're not anarchists.

What we oppose is government being a kindergarten teacher

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And you keep ignoring that this doesn't affect the violent criminals or the drug dealers? Why is that?

There are not thousands of violent criminals or the drug dealers coming across the border every day. Most coming across are just looking for a better life and since there is someone to pay them they keep coming.

And I agreed with you that we need to punish people who hire illegal aliens, you stupid cvnt. Try to follow a discussion

Actually, no you never did, not even once. But I am glad to hear you say it now, we are making progress.

 

[kaz]

You're a liar, I don't ignore other proposals. You just made that up.

All I can go by is what you post and you've have not talked about anything but the wall,the wall, the wall....

I'm totally for a major guest worker program. But not until we solve the problem of people coming here with visas and not leaving when they expire.

how does the wall fix this problem?

Besides the wall, we need to clean things up then implement jail time for anyone here illegally. Minimum three months for a first offense.

Holy shit, that would get really expensive really quick.

And your idea to have the military chase thousands of people around the desert would be insanely expensive. We'd burn through $20 billion in months, and the $20 billion is one time to build the wall. Maintaining it would be far cheaper than that a year

Bull shit, the military members are alrday paid for, there is money being saved by not having them in other countries and guarding the border could be tied into their training. Every pilot has to have a set number of NVG hours every month, the infantry practices patrolling, UAV guys could be used.

OMG. You seriously don't get why I said we need to fix the Visa overstay problem before we implement a guest worker program???

My God. This is going to be hard. Sit here. Take my hand. Now, dude, you're stupid. You're seriously stupid. You're completely and utterly stupid. Someone had to tell you.

As for the rest of your crap. I've clearly said that without the wall, nothing else will work. I want to punish anyone who hires illegals. I want the military to support the wall. I want jail terms for illegal aliens, including Visa overstays.

Saying that none of the rest will work without the wall means I oppose everything is just you being an utter idiot. See above for details on that. Dude, you're stupid ...

 

[kaz]

You didn’t vote? Then I’ve lost all respect for you loser.

I voted for Gary Johnson, liar. I never said I didn't vote.

And you are why I make people identify themselves. You're a leftist socialist and you claim to have voted for Trump. What a load

Did I rig your results?

No, but you're obviously dishonest as you do nothing but argue for Democrats and Democrat policies all day long

i have a thread titles I'm a Republican now. Clearly I'm not a Republican now. BUT, I make some good points why I have abandoned the Democratic party. Why do I care about poor people when 80% of them don't even vote? The 80% deserve to be poor and don't deserve any attention from any politicians. THey need to understand if you don't vote you don't matter.

I'll be ok if Republicans get their way. I'd prefer Democrats be in charge but if poor people like you want Republicans then I won't stop you from shooting yourself in the foot.

Whatever the over sights whatever their faults I'll be a dem till the end of time I despise republicans ,their lies their bullying ,their bullshit

I give you permission to be a Democrat. The only way you're earning a living is to vote yourself one

 

[kaz]

To buy a plane ticket they have to have a Visa. Sure, some could get here that way, but nowhere near a million. And seriously, border check points? They don't check ID? Of course they do.

We need to close off the Visa overstay, but obviously you have not proposed how anywhere near a million will get through the wall that way

The wall won't stop anyone. Especially since it won't be built.

That's why leftists are laying yourself on the ground to stop it.



You know that's the only way it won't be built, and you know it will work if it is. It would be the end of the Democrat party as we know it. Your entire farm system will be obliterated.

So once that happens, are you going to try to get the blue Americans you've been spitting on back?

No it isn't. It's the fact that it's stupid. It sends the wrong message and is a waste of money.

Ya dumb shit.

Gotcha, because illegal aliens can walk through walls like they aren't there. I think you're thinking of space aliens. Like the ones that live in your brain. Oh, and your sock drawer.

So you oppose fencing around nuclear power plants because they don't work too, right?

Whoa! What an argument! You are so smart!

There won't be a wall. And whatever is built will be incomplete. There will be gaps.

Have you been paying attention to the omnibus bill? Your hero is going to sign a bill that doesn't give him funding for his wall. This time next week, I expect that you will forget this thread and give us more reasons why you feel it is imperative to support the moron.

You like him. Admit it. You like Trump.

So you confuse yourself when you flip flop between arguing there won't be a wall and walls don't work? Seriously? Damn

 

[toomuchtime_]

And again, your argument is the military can stop them, but IF and ONLY IF we don't build a wall. That's just stupid

No, my argument is that the military can stop them more effective and cheaper than a wall that we do not need if we would first go after the companies paying them and created a realist, workable guest worker program that benefited both side.

But you want the wall and nothing else matters.

Strawman. I'm for that and never said I wasn't. We need to do EVERYTHING to stop illegal immigration here. Here's the thing. Proposing one thing is not saying I oppose everything else

Every time it has been mentioned by anyone you ignore ti and go of on some rant about NORMAL people. This is the first time you have even acknowledged it as an idea put forth, and were very careful not to endorse it directly.

Dear kaz and Golfing Gator
I agree that it will take more than just a wall.
Both for security reasons and for unity between people states and parties
to agree and focus on a unifying solution. We need to spell out more of the plans.

kaz I'm glad you see there needs to be SERIOUS support
for any such alternatives to work. The problem with Dems is that they
keep asking for things, but not showing any responsibility for how to build these solutions.
It's as if they are CLUELESS how much work, labor, time and resources are involved,
such as in promising "universal health care" -- when I brought up the realization that
it will take having hospitals in every county or district to meet the full demand because
people are already dying while waiting in line for care as it is, I get blank stares.
They want to ask for the carts without counting how many horses it will take
to pull that many people.

Golfing Gator and I both agree and envision there needs to be military
development along the border. So we can build jobs around that.
Gov Schwarzenegger had proposed to build prisons in Mexico
to accommodate Mexican nationals costing CA billions in resources every year.

So the military can be in charge of guarding prisons that will create
complexes, and cities can be built around that.

kaz just building a wall is like liberals yelling that "agreeing to global warming arguments"
is going to magically save the planet. No, it still takes all the work to stop pollution
and save resources. Whether we give a FLIP about global warming or walls or whatever.

We need more than that.

If you are waiting on "someone else" to lead a movement kaz
then that's also like liberals waiting on party or depending on govt.

What it is going to take is everyone supporting solutions, organizing
with our local party precincts, finding out who is leading or working
either for or against Trump, Democrats, Republicans, and asking
all these people, whether taxpayers or future leaders, to invest
DONATIONS into CREATING JOBS not more campaigns!

Here are model programs we can cite and ask to create JOBS
for leaders, dreamers, workers, veterans, students, etc
organizing sustainable Development along the border:

www.paceuniversal.com
Pace Universal builds schools and daycares to create safe jobs and centers for
women children and workers in regions otherwise exploited for trafficking

UTRGV - <system-page-title/>
UT at Brownsville already HAS an international student program that CROSSES the BORDER
what a concept

www.campusplan.org
Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee signed on to this innovative plan
to transform public housing into sustainable community campuses,
creating onsite programs for student interns to earn their education
while providing assistance and services to families to break the cycle of poverty
and get people off welfare instead of growing more dependent on govt and handouts

the expanded plan to restore the historic district
of Freedmen's Town into a campus for teaching self government
through business management of property and programs was
already posted www.freedmenstown.com

and replicating that plan along the border
might look like this www.earnedamnesty.org

So anyone can take these links and ask more party members and leaders
to start investing "campaign donations" into actually BUILDING
similar solutions within EACH DISTRICT. Then we can do the
same across states, nations, and the border. Build locally, expand globally.

kaz if you agree with any of these ideas, or you have
better ones, then take those to your local party leaders,
ask for a conference between parties and how to use
the Electoral College District system to set up meetings
with parties and start working out common proposals.

Instead of parties competing to raise money to OUTVOTE
each other at the polls, why not invest our resources
DIRECTLY in solutions that would CREATE JOBS FOR
ALL PARTIES, not just one office that several people can't all hold!

I'm for military support of the wall, just not as a replacement for it. The military trying to chase almost 3K illegal aliens around the desert as Gator proposes a night is insane. And he wants that not because he believes it will work, but because he knows it won't. The opposite of why he opposes the wall.

And Trump is already there advocating the wall. Why would I go grass roots for something that is already in the White House? That's why after not voting for Trump I'm advocating him and his ideas.

And contrary to the lies of the left, he isn't just proposing a wall, he's proposing electronic security, more border agents, a focus on Visa overstays. We have to do all of those things to secure our border

Think About the Objections You Are Told to Recite

For every border bandito we kill, thousands will be scared into vamoosing. It is illogical to think of numbers on each side when the power of a lethal solution is magnified far beyond the individual incident.

On the other hand, when confronted with tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from Africa via Sinai, Israel built exactly the kind of fence Trump is talking about and brought it in at about $2.9 million per mile. The fence has reduced illegal immigration from Sinai by 99%. This means the US could build the fence along the border with Mexico for under $6 billion and virtually end all illegal immigration from Mexico.

GOP senator says Israel border fence cut illegal immigration