Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuush or Cheney?

[Amelia]

Your inference is wrong. All elected officials are 'dishonest'; some a product of their character, others as a result of necessity/circumstance.

So you're not disappointed in Obama, then? You're still quite willing to blame his dishonesty on necessity?

Never mind then.

I don't see the world as all black or white; obviously you do.

Really? Your answer to Obama's pernicious dishonesty is that I see the world as all black and white?

What were you disappointed in when you said "very disappointing" above? Can you say? Or is this too personal for you now?

The question is not whether Obama lies, or if it's of necessity or not... it's whether he's capable of telling the truth.

He doesn't even seem to recognize the truth. His words are on a completely different level from his actions. He actually seems to believe what he says while he is doing something completely opposite from what he says. Serious split with reality.

 

[Amelia]

That's probably why he is so convincing to his followers -- his detachment from the truth appears to rise to the level of sociopathy which allows him to lie without betraying the usual signs that an honest person would when he is forced to lie by necessity/circumstance. Like how some criminals can pass lie detector tests.

 

[Wry Catcher]

That's probably why he is so convincing to his followers -- his detachment from the truth appears to rise to the level of sociopathy which allows him to lie without betraying the usual signs that an honest person would when he is forced to lie by necessity/circumstance. Like how some criminals can pass lie detector tests.

Now you're an expert on human psychology?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"BERLIN - The United States may have bugged Angela Merkel's phone for more than 10 years, according to a report in Der Spiegel on Saturday that also said President Barack Obama told the German leader he would have stopped it happening had he known about it.

"Germany's outrage over reports of bugging of Merkel's phone by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) prompted it to summon the U.S. ambassador this week for the first time in living memory, an unprecedented post-war diplomatic rift."

If true, is not telling president elect Obama a high crime committed by Bush or Cheney?

US spied on German leader Merkel's phone since 2002: report - World News

Yeah Obama would have stopped it

LOL

You low information voters will believe anything

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Clinton didn't start it with Carnivore or Echelon, no. it was Emmaunel Goldstein aka: Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's probably why he is so convincing to his followers -- his detachment from the truth appears to rise to the level of sociopathy which allows him to lie without betraying the usual signs that an honest person would when he is forced to lie by necessity/circumstance. Like how some criminals can pass lie detector tests.

Now you're an expert on human psychology?

All it takes to be an expert at human psychology is being human.

 

[Amelia]

That's probably why he is so convincing to his followers -- his detachment from the truth appears to rise to the level of sociopathy which allows him to lie without betraying the usual signs that an honest person would when he is forced to lie by necessity/circumstance. Like how some criminals can pass lie detector tests.

Now you're an expert on human psychology?

I've had a long time to observe the phenomenon which is Barack Obama, the dichotomy between what he says and facts on the ground, and how others react to him.

So what were you disappointed by when you said "very disappointing" above?

 

[Wry Catcher]

That's probably why he is so convincing to his followers -- his detachment from the truth appears to rise to the level of sociopathy which allows him to lie without betraying the usual signs that an honest person would when he is forced to lie by necessity/circumstance. Like how some criminals can pass lie detector tests.

Now you're an expert on human psychology?

I've had a long time to observe the phenomenon which is Barack Obama, the dichotomy between what he says and facts on the ground, and how others react to him.

So what were you disappointed by when you said "very disappointing" above?

Maybe a few examples of "facts on the ground" vis a vis his comments would aid in making your point.

As for my being disappointed, I suppose that's a combination of my frustration with the system and my hope that Obama would have been able to make positive changes to the Freedom/Security dichotomy.

Keep in mind this entire debacle is the result of a traitor to America, a citizen who released information which meets the standard of providing aid and comfort to our enemies. I guess part of the frustration was my expectation that Obama could have an influence on the clandestine service; it's beginning to look as if they operate without restraint for the law(s); they seem to believe they are above the law. An issue which the Bush White House might have agreed with, consider:

Bush could bypass new torture ban - The Boston Globe

 

[Amelia]

"Maybe a few examples of 'facts on the ground' vis a vis his comments would aid in making your point."

The facts on the ground include that his lies have been shown over and over for years and you're still asking for examples when they're mentioned.

That's part of the phenomenon. It's as if Obama creates a holographic environment where people can hear whatever they want in his words. It's fascinating what people take from his words. He doesn't always have to resort to outright lies. He does so much double talk that he can usually deny that he said what people heard him saying. Like when he was blaming the Benghazi terrorist attack on the video but at the end of his speech made a reference to 9/11/2001 and acts of terror and later his enablers let him take credit for pegging the Benghazi attack as a terrorist attack instead of what he actually pegged it as -- something arising spontaneously from a protest against the video.

And think of how much credit he takes for his "evolution" with respect to gay marriage -- progressing from being against it to being for it -- when in fact, he was for gay marriage before he was against it, before he was for it again. As "necessary" for politics?

So, with so much double talk on his part, that makes his outright lies all the more intriguing. Like when he flatly claimed never to have supported single payer.

I could continue with a litany of his dishonesty. If you randomly picked a speech, good chance I could at least find a straw man in it, since that's one of his preferred devices. And Obama speeches on record may outnumber all past president speeches combined thanks to the record he keeps at whitehouse.gov. The last time I counted, he had averaged more than one speech a day.

So much talk. So much smoke blown in your eyes. So much material for anyone and everyone to compare. And still you ask for examples.

 

[Amelia]

An example of an Obama straw man from two days ago, from his weekly radio address:

"We did it [created Obamacare] to cement the principle that in this country, the security of health care is not a privilege for a fortunate few, but a right for every one of us to enjoy."

How does hundreds of millions of people with insurance constitute a "fortunate few"? Obama rolled with straw men like that and was not called out on outlandish promises such as "if you like your plan, you can keep it", and now we have hundreds of thousands of people losing their insurance, and yet to be totaled numbers finding that they're going to have to rearrange their finances and cut back on things they've grown accustomed to so that they can afford the new costs of insurance and health care, with the likelihood that some will not be able to afford insurance at all now that the ACA has brought about an end to the policies they used to have.

 

[Amelia]

And now with the story in your OP the hope of many on the left rides on Obama not knowing as much as a young NSA contractor did about our monitoring of our allies because it's a choice between "Obama didn't know" and "Obama lied" and they'd prefer it to be "Obama didn't know".

 

[Peaceandequal]

if bush as in clit then yes

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Now you're an expert on human psychology?

I've had a long time to observe the phenomenon which is Barack Obama, the dichotomy between what he says and facts on the ground, and how others react to him.

So what were you disappointed by when you said "very disappointing" above?

Maybe a few examples of "facts on the ground" vis a vis his comments would aid in making your point.

As for my being disappointed, I suppose that's a combination of my frustration with the system and my hope that Obama would have been able to make positive changes to the Freedom/Security dichotomy.

Keep in mind this entire debacle is the result of a traitor to America, a citizen who released information which meets the standard of providing aid and comfort to our enemies. I guess part of the frustration was my expectation that Obama could have an influence on the clandestine service; it's beginning to look as if they operate without restraint for the law(s); they seem to believe they are above the law. An issue which the Bush White House might have agreed with, consider:

Bush could bypass new torture ban - The Boston Globe

Obama has expanded every single Bush program that you hate, yet you are only a little disappointed.

ACLU: Obama Worse Than Bush On Civil Liberty Issues | WBNS-10TV Columbus, Ohio

 

[Amelia]

It's sad. A waste.

With Obama's energy and charisma, think how much good he might have done if the media had let him know he'd be held accountable, and if knowing that led him to focus his attentions more prudently.

He is full of ideas. If they had been guided by a healthy sense of accountability and not puffed up by those vested in his legend, he could have been one of the great presidents.