Ca Bypasses trump. Makes Deal With 4 Car Companies

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There were 11 kids and myself in that car. We didn't go far. Just up the hill to my house.

My son walked away without a scratch because of the safety features on that car. Just because it's not a big truck or SUV doesn't mean it's not safe.

No your son is lucky. I lost a daughter in a Toyota that got hit by a bigger vehicle and the stats in the linked articles in my previous post, proves that is the case. Numbers don’t lie. A week after our daughter was killed, on that same highway a truck hit an Amish couple in a horse and buggy, they both walked away with no injuries.

Again, the numbers don’t lie, a bigger heavier vehicle will protect you better than a smaller lighter vehicle. That isn’t up to dispute by the professionals that tabulates millions of crashes over decades of numbers.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Nothing can come close to having to lose your child.

However, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash test ratings and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration safety ratings has the Prius rated 9.2. The NHTSA has the Prius over all rating as 5 stars out of 5 stars.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/prius/safety

Thank you, I don’t dispute that they aren’t safe but if you knew you would be in a head on tomorrow (which I would wish on no one) would you rather be in a Toyota Prius or a Toyota Tacoma?

My son was T boned in the Prius. The other car ran the light and hit my car in the front on the driver's side. He walked away without a scratch.

I was in my Mazda B2200 truck and hit some black ice on a bridge one night. Since there was no weight in the back, as soon as those back tires hit that ice, I was all over the bridge. When I got across the bridge I slid sideways toward a house. The only thing that kept me from going straight into that house was my truck caught the side of the curb and threw me away from the house with the truck landing the driver's side on the ground in the parking lot next to the house. I had to be cut out of the truck. Then taken to the hospital with serious injuries.

So yes, I would rather be in that Prius than that Mazda B2200 in an accident.

So grateful your son was okay. My daughter was t-boned by a Caddy, killed her instantly, funny thing is the police officer said had she not been wearing her seatbelt she would have been okay as it would have thrown her away from the impact. Just bizarre how things go.

I agree to disagree with you on this, however thank you for a civil discussion, we all need more of that.

You have my sympathies, but I think that cop was lying to you to make you feel better. I was in a crash in 1983 where I was hit in the left rear quarter panel in a Ford LTD by a tractor-trailer. I was young and stupid and not wearing my seat belt. I was in the passenger floorboard on top of my wife as our car was being catapulted across a parking lot towards a bus station. I got back under the wheel just in time to prevent killing about 20 people. Physics says that you will react according to its laws.

That was the last time I did not wear a seat belt!

 

[Dana7360]

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Nothing can come close to having to lose your child.

However, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash test ratings and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration safety ratings has the Prius rated 9.2. The NHTSA has the Prius over all rating as 5 stars out of 5 stars.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/prius/safety

Thank you, I don’t dispute that they aren’t safe but if you knew you would be in a head on tomorrow (which I would wish on no one) would you rather be in a Toyota Prius or a Toyota Tacoma?

My son was T boned in the Prius. The other car ran the light and hit my car in the front on the driver's side. He walked away without a scratch.

I was in my Mazda B2200 truck and hit some black ice on a bridge one night. Since there was no weight in the back, as soon as those back tires hit that ice, I was all over the bridge. When I got across the bridge I slid sideways toward a house. The only thing that kept me from going straight into that house was my truck caught the side of the curb and threw me away from the house with the truck landing the driver's side on the ground in the parking lot next to the house. I had to be cut out of the truck. Then taken to the hospital with serious injuries.

So yes, I would rather be in that Prius than that Mazda B2200 in an accident.

So grateful your son was okay. My daughter was t-boned by a Caddy, killed her instantly, funny thing is the police officer said had she not been wearing her seatbelt she would have been okay as it would have thrown her away from the impact. Just bizarre how things go.

I agree to disagree with you on this, however thank you for a civil discussion, we all need more of that.

My son was T boned by a large sedan too. I don't know what make and model it was.

I'm so sorry about your daughter. It's got to be the hardest thing to deal with. No parent should have to bury their child.

Sometimes that seatbelt can save lives. Sometimes it doesn't. I've been in my share of accidents. The seatbelt saved me in a couple of them. However, most of the time that seatbelt is an annoyance since I'm very short and they aren't made for people as small as I am and it doesn't lay across my chest the way it does most people. I usually ends up digging into my neck.

I can agree to disagree too. There's no reason why people can't have a civil and mature discussion. We think differently which means we think for ourselves. That is a good thing.

I always wear a seatbelt, statistically seatbelts are smart, hers was an exception. I think about her everyday and the would’ve, could’ve, should’ve’s, she would have been 35 this year, I hate the month of August, always a rough month. The one I really feel for is my wife, she carried our children inside her and that is a bond I can’t match, I deeply love my children, yet women have that special bond. Take care.

I always wear a seatbelt too.

I can't imagine the pain you and your wife had to endure. It has to be the worst any parent can endure. No parent should bury their child. It's not supposed to be that way.

August used to be a hard month for me. Over the years it's gotten easier but I don't have to endure the pain of losing a child like you and your wife. My heart goes out to both of you.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions. I decided in 2001 to never buy a regular gas car again. And I haven't. I've saved a lot of money on gas and I'm not polluting the air as much. Half the time I'm driving totally on electricity.

Higher overall vehicle cost and lower capabilities of the vehicle (generally).

If you want me to buy a “clean(er)” car it cannot cost more and must have at least the same level of capabilities as the older cars.

That is 100%vtotal bullshit.

I have a 2005 Prius. 45 MPG, Carries a shit load of stuff & saves me big money.

Yes I have a 2017 Prius, I had a 2011 Prius, I had a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid and my ex had a 2001 Prius.

I can pack a ton of stuff in my Prius and hit the road. I do it every month when I go to my vacation house in the central part of the state. I've packed 11 of my daughter's friends in my Prius too. Then went straight up one of our infamous very tall hills. It went right up the hill no problem. Everyone was packed in and I was laughing hysterically but the car had no problem with it.

It's a great car. I've also saved a ton of money. When we were paying over 4 dollars a gallon for gas in the bush boy years, Only having to fill up the tank twice a month saved me a lot of money. I was still able to keep my gas expenses around 100 dollars a month.

I just filled my car yesterday. It was 3.19 a gallon. I paid 27 dollars to fill my car.

Recheck your math. The premium you paid for the Prius means the ROI from the increased mileage isn't until between 150,000 and 200,000 miles.

How much of a premium do you think I paid for my Prius?

Cmpasre a 30 pg top a 45 mpg: .022 gal/mil vs .033 gal/mi. Savings 1/3 of my fuel costs.

a 30 mpg car would need 6670 gal or cost $20K more than my Prius.

Compare the Prius cost to other vehicles of comparable size, hatchback, storage area.

I saved money. I reduced my emissions, It served my purpose well.

My father in law's car cost under $10K, gets 44MPG. He ran the numbers...and they were crystal-clear: the ROI on a hybrid is, for 95+% of drivers, simply not there.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No your son is lucky. I lost a daughter in a Toyota that got hit by a bigger vehicle and the stats in the linked articles in my previous post, proves that is the case. Numbers don’t lie. A week after our daughter was killed, on that same highway a truck hit an Amish couple in a horse and buggy, they both walked away with no injuries.

Again, the numbers don’t lie, a bigger heavier vehicle will protect you better than a smaller lighter vehicle. That isn’t up to dispute by the professionals that tabulates millions of crashes over decades of numbers.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Nothing can come close to having to lose your child.

However, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crash test ratings and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration safety ratings has the Prius rated 9.2. The NHTSA has the Prius over all rating as 5 stars out of 5 stars.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/prius/safety

I put ~65,000 miles on a 1972 Ford F-800 ramp truck. For all practical purposes, it has no safety equipment-not even shoulder belts. If that 18,500lb (empty) truck were to hit a 2019 Prius head-on at 30MPH, which would you rather be in? Be honest.

You without a seat belt or air bags, I'll take the Prius.

Do you have a preference for your style of coffin?

Kinetic energy comparison:
F-800-755 kilojoules.
Prius-147 kJ.

Probable result: F-800 has a bent bumper. Prius is crushed from front bumper to-at least-B-pillar. If the truck overrides the Prius (which it well might), the car will be ripped open end to end, all occupants decapitated. Truck driver will feel a jolt and get yanked against the lap belt, likely won't even hit the steering wheel.

No shoulder belt- your face would be in your steering wheel.

Truck will still be moving at ~20MPH after impact. Result of a 10MPH impact is not hitting the wheel.

 

[badger2]

Making decisions to quit petroleum addiction are obviously more complex than post #3 wants the prisoners to assume. It may entail moving to another state. What is the personal value of weaning from the addiction? duh

 

[Andylusion]

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions. I decided in 2001 to never buy a regular gas car again. And I haven't. I've saved a lot of money on gas and I'm not polluting the air as much. Half the time I'm driving totally on electricity.

Higher overall vehicle cost and lower capabilities of the vehicle (generally).

If you want me to buy a “clean(er)” car it cannot cost more and must have at least the same level of capabilities as the older cars.

That is 100%vtotal bullshit.

I have a 2005 Prius. 45 MPG, Carries a shit load of stuff & saves me big money.

I had a loaner Prius for a couple weeks while my truck was in the shop. At first I was pissed because they didn't give me a truck or SUV, that's all they had available. I decided I'd beat the crap out of the Prius. After the two weeks I didn't mind the Prius though. It's an ugly ass car and handles like a big go cart but that thing took a beating and returned amazing gas mileage. Not fast but not as gutless as you'd think it would be either, has just enough pep. Even doing 85 on the highway for a 160 mile round trip where the gas engine is doing the work it got great mpg. It was fun seeing how far you could keep it on just the electric motor from a stop. Also when you come to a stop everything is off. One night I was out late no traffic had the windows down and came to a stop. Complete silence could hear the crickets chirping. Kinda neat. I thought I would hate it but I was actually impressed with it.

My mother had one...I wasn't impressed. Cramped interior, harsh ride with no handling benefit, weird Jetsons-meets-TRON interior kitch, poor handling on the glazed-donut LRR tires, and a very large price premium over a conventional car. The only purpose for it is virtue-signalling.

My uncle had a Prius too. I remember getting into it for the first time, and having a "This is it?" moment. That isn't to say the car wasn't good... but relative to the additional cost of that car, the results were significantly underwhelming.

That said, you would have to know my uncle. This is the guy who in high school, was constantly buying the latest gadget, so he could go around impressing people with some nifty, yet unimportant feature, that his thingy could do, and yours could not.

And it wasn't like it was arrogance, it was simply his nature that, cool gadgets is what got him excited. So all we day, he's telling me "see it's turning off the engine!" and "See it's turning the engine back on!".

Again it was nifty, but seriously, do you really think it's worth paying $10,000 more for what is otherwise an average car so that you can "hear the crickets" in an expensive car?

Now if that's your thing... and that's worth $10,000 more for an average car... far be it from me to suggest you do otherwise.

I've just never understood how people can pay $10,000 more for a car, to save $3,000 in gas.

Now with my uncle, is almost made sense... almost. He was driving a thousand miles a week, because he was working in southern Ohio, while his home was north of Chicago.

Of course the moment me moved, he started driving his Camaro again.

 

[Pilot1]

The car manufacturers have an easy tweak for the non California cars to be adjusted to get better performance. It is all in the ECU, and software. Very simple. California screws itself again.

So go ahead bash Trump, while the rest of us enjoy a better quality of life and standard of living.

 

[OnePercenter]

The cars will be more expensive...Why wouldn't car manufactures want that?

I guess that crony corporatist deals with The State are cool, as long as the alleged "benefits" check all your political boxes, huh?

Manufacturers have been doing that for decades.

Chevy creating pickup truck that may exceed $100G price tag: report

 

[Jarlaxle]

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions. I decided in 2001 to never buy a regular gas car again. And I haven't. I've saved a lot of money on gas and I'm not polluting the air as much. Half the time I'm driving totally on electricity.

Higher overall vehicle cost and lower capabilities of the vehicle (generally).

If you want me to buy a “clean(er)” car it cannot cost more and must have at least the same level of capabilities as the older cars.

That is 100%vtotal bullshit.

I have a 2005 Prius. 45 MPG, Carries a shit load of stuff & saves me big money.

I had a loaner Prius for a couple weeks while my truck was in the shop. At first I was pissed because they didn't give me a truck or SUV, that's all they had available. I decided I'd beat the crap out of the Prius. After the two weeks I didn't mind the Prius though. It's an ugly ass car and handles like a big go cart but that thing took a beating and returned amazing gas mileage. Not fast but not as gutless as you'd think it would be either, has just enough pep. Even doing 85 on the highway for a 160 mile round trip where the gas engine is doing the work it got great mpg. It was fun seeing how far you could keep it on just the electric motor from a stop. Also when you come to a stop everything is off. One night I was out late no traffic had the windows down and came to a stop. Complete silence could hear the crickets chirping. Kinda neat. I thought I would hate it but I was actually impressed with it.

My mother had one...I wasn't impressed. Cramped interior, harsh ride with no handling benefit, weird Jetsons-meets-TRON interior kitch, poor handling on the glazed-donut LRR tires, and a very large price premium over a conventional car. The only purpose for it is virtue-signalling.

My uncle had a Prius too. I remember getting into it for the first time, and having a "This is it?" moment. That isn't to say the car wasn't good... but relative to the additional cost of that car, the results were significantly underwhelming.

That said, you would have to know my uncle. This is the guy who in high school, was constantly buying the latest gadget, so he could go around impressing people with some nifty, yet unimportant feature, that his thingy could do, and yours could not.

And it wasn't like it was arrogance, it was simply his nature that, cool gadgets is what got him excited. So all we day, he's telling me "see it's turning off the engine!" and "See it's turning the engine back on!".

Again it was nifty, but seriously, do you really think it's worth paying $10,000 more for what is otherwise an average car so that you can "hear the crickets" in an expensive car?

Now if that's your thing... and that's worth $10,000 more for an average car... far be it from me to suggest you do otherwise.

I've just never understood how people can pay $10,000 more for a car, to save $3,000 in gas.

Now with my uncle, is almost made sense... almost. He was driving a thousand miles a week, because he was working in southern Ohio, while his home was north of Chicago.

Of course the moment me moved, he started driving his Camaro again.

There are four main types of Prius buyers. One is your uncle, the techno-geek. One is the virtue-signaler. The third can't do math, and actually thinks it will save him money. The rarest is the one that CAN do math, and it ACTUALLY WILL save money. (Their cars often wear hackney licences and livery plates.)

 

[Jarlaxle]

The car manufacturers have an easy tweak for the non California cars to be adjusted to get better performance. It is all in the ECU, and software. Very simple. California screws itself again.

So go ahead bash Trump, while the rest of us enjoy a better quality of life and standard of living.

Cali cars today perform fine. Many companies ALREADY make all their cars to Cali emissions.

 

[Pilot1]

The car manufacturers have an easy tweak for the non California cars to be adjusted to get better performance. It is all in the ECU, and software. Very simple. California screws itself again.

So go ahead bash Trump, while the rest of us enjoy a better quality of life and standard of living.

Cali cars today perform fine. Many companies ALREADY make all their cars to Cali emissions.

Yet hobbyists use tuners to take away the stupid CA restrictions then remove them for inspection. I personally know guys that do that. California sucks, and I know because I used to live there.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The car manufacturers have an easy tweak for the non California cars to be adjusted to get better performance. It is all in the ECU, and software. Very simple. California screws itself again.

So go ahead bash Trump, while the rest of us enjoy a better quality of life and standard of living.

Cali cars today perform fine. Many companies ALREADY make all their cars to Cali emissions.

Yet hobbyists use tuners to take away the stupid CA restrictions then remove them for inspection. I personally know guys that do that. California sucks, and I know because I used to live there.

You have no idea what the hell you are babbling about.

 

[Andylusion]

Higher overall vehicle cost and lower capabilities of the vehicle (generally).

If you want me to buy a “clean(er)” car it cannot cost more and must have at least the same level of capabilities as the older cars.

That is 100%vtotal bullshit.

I have a 2005 Prius. 45 MPG, Carries a shit load of stuff & saves me big money.

Yes I have a 2017 Prius, I had a 2011 Prius, I had a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid and my ex had a 2001 Prius.

I can pack a ton of stuff in my Prius and hit the road. I do it every month when I go to my vacation house in the central part of the state. I've packed 11 of my daughter's friends in my Prius too. Then went straight up one of our infamous very tall hills. It went right up the hill no problem. Everyone was packed in and I was laughing hysterically but the car had no problem with it.

It's a great car. I've also saved a ton of money. When we were paying over 4 dollars a gallon for gas in the bush boy years, Only having to fill up the tank twice a month saved me a lot of money. I was still able to keep my gas expenses around 100 dollars a month.

I just filled my car yesterday. It was 3.19 a gallon. I paid 27 dollars to fill my car.

Recheck your math. The premium you paid for the Prius means the ROI from the increased mileage isn't until between 150,000 and 200,000 miles.

How much of a premium do you think I paid for my Prius?

Cmpasre a 30 pg top a 45 mpg: .022 gal/mil vs .033 gal/mi. Savings 1/3 of my fuel costs.

a 30 mpg car would need 6670 gal or cost $20K more than my Prius.

Compare the Prius cost to other vehicles of comparable size, hatchback, storage area.

I saved money. I reduced my emissions, It served my purpose well.

My father in law's car cost under $10K, gets 44MPG. He ran the numbers...and they were crystal-clear: the ROI on a hybrid is, for 95+% of drivers, simply not there.

So I couldn't help myself.... I had to run the numbers again. I thought perhaps a Lease would make a difference (even though a lease is the absolute most expensive way to own a car).

So Toyota has a Camry has a regular, and Hybrid version. The cost for a Lease is $3,000 down, and $210/mo for the regular, and $260 a month for the Hybrid.

That means you are spending $1800 more for a Hybrid.

The difference in mileage is 39 miles per gallon vs 54 miles per gallon Highway.

Max mileage of 10,000 miles per year, for 30,000 miles at the end of the lease.

770 Gallons vs 555 gallons

At $2.70 per gallon (here in Ohio)

$2,079 vs $1,495

So you spent $1,800 to save $548 in gas.

Let's look at city mileage....

28 MPG vs 51 MPG

1070 vs 588 gallons

$2890 vs $1587

So you spent $1800 to save $1300 in gas.

So by either calculation you lose money.

Plus if you intend to buy out the car, the hybrid is $2,500 more to buy out at the end of the lease.

So again even with the buyout, you still end up losing ton of money either way.

That math is better than it was when I checked 5 years ago... but it still sucks. Either way, one thing is guaranteed to be true... you are losing money buying a hybrid.

Just for giggles I'll toss in the Nissan Leaf.

$4000 down payment, and $360 per month lease. So you are paying $6,400 more, to save $2,890 in gas. (how much the electricity costs to charge your car, depends on where you live, so we don't know).

Of course you are paying more for a significantly smaller car, that has a 150 Mile range.

So... again... the math simply never works. Or rarely.... at best.

 

[okfine]

This is very interesting.

trump has been trying to take freedom from a handful of states, including California, by taking away their right to set their own air quality standards and requirements on car emissions.

So far 4 car companies have signed on with California to make cars with lower emissions and higher gas mileage no matter what trump does.

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions. I decided in 2001 to never buy a regular gas car again. And I haven't. I've saved a lot of money on gas and I'm not polluting the air as much. Half the time I'm driving totally on electricity.

I hope California is able to get more car companies to sign on.

California bypasses Trump to sign tougher mileage deal with 4 car makers

I own a 2012 VW Jetta TDI. I paid $26k cash new. 500 miles on 3/4 tank with a/c on @ 80mph. It runs circles around a f'n Prius, it was way less money, too. We have a small fleet of Prius' and they are so uncomfortable and butt-ugly. The VW doesn't have an embedded cyber connection either.

Car Manufacturers Are Tracking Millions of Cars - Slashdot

 

[Andylusion]

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions.

Safety.......that's why...to get the higher mileage and lower emissions you have to make the vehicles lighter...and less safe...but dead people never were an obstacle for left wingers......

In that case, we should all be driving tanks.

Not exactly a tank. But I drive a 03 Grand Marquis.

I've been hit by people in little wind up honda accord, and they destroyed their car by hitting mine. My car suffered no damage.

Add 30 MPH to that and that guy could have seriously hurt. I think I might have felt the hit, if he had been going faster. Instead it was more like I just went over a speed bump.

So, no we don't need a tank. But we do need something made out of metal instead of plastic.

 

[pknopp]

Higher overall vehicle cost and lower capabilities of the vehicle (generally).

If you want me to buy a “clean(er)” car it cannot cost more and must have at least the same level of capabilities as the older cars.

That is 100%vtotal bullshit.

I have a 2005 Prius. 45 MPG, Carries a shit load of stuff & saves me big money.

Yes I have a 2017 Prius, I had a 2011 Prius, I had a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid and my ex had a 2001 Prius.

I can pack a ton of stuff in my Prius and hit the road. I do it every month when I go to my vacation house in the central part of the state. I've packed 11 of my daughter's friends in my Prius too. Then went straight up one of our infamous very tall hills. It went right up the hill no problem. Everyone was packed in and I was laughing hysterically but the car had no problem with it.

It's a great car. I've also saved a ton of money. When we were paying over 4 dollars a gallon for gas in the bush boy years, Only having to fill up the tank twice a month saved me a lot of money. I was still able to keep my gas expenses around 100 dollars a month.

I just filled my car yesterday. It was 3.19 a gallon. I paid 27 dollars to fill my car.

Recheck your math. The premium you paid for the Prius means the ROI from the increased mileage isn't until between 150,000 and 200,000 miles.

How much of a premium do you think I paid for my Prius?

Cmpasre a 30 pg top a 45 mpg: .022 gal/mil vs .033 gal/mi. Savings 1/3 of my fuel costs.

a 30 mpg car would need 6670 gal or cost $20K more than my Prius.

Compare the Prius cost to other vehicles of comparable size, hatchback, storage area.

I saved money. I reduced my emissions, It served my purpose well.

My father in law's car cost under $10K, gets 44MPG. He ran the numbers...and they were crystal-clear: the ROI on a hybrid is, for 95+% of drivers, simply not there.

For many it is not about a ROI. Sounds like your FIL drives a fuel efficient car which is good but many do not measure everything by $$$$.

 

[pknopp]

This is very interesting.

trump has been trying to take freedom from a handful of states, including California, by taking away their right to set their own air quality standards and requirements on car emissions.

So far 4 car companies have signed on with California to make cars with lower emissions and higher gas mileage no matter what trump does.

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions. I decided in 2001 to never buy a regular gas car again. And I haven't. I've saved a lot of money on gas and I'm not polluting the air as much. Half the time I'm driving totally on electricity.

I hope California is able to get more car companies to sign on.

California bypasses Trump to sign tougher mileage deal with 4 car makers

I own a 2012 VW Jetta TDI. I paid $26k cash new. 500 miles on 3/4 tank with a/c on @ 80mph. It runs circles around a f'n Prius, it was way less money, too. We have a small fleet of Prius' and they are so uncomfortable and butt-ugly. The VW doesn't have an embedded cyber connection either.

Car Manufacturers Are Tracking Millions of Cars - Slashdot

Why didn't you sell it back and how is the "fix" working out?

 

[Andylusion]

That is 100%vtotal bullshit.

I have a 2005 Prius. 45 MPG, Carries a shit load of stuff & saves me big money.

Yes I have a 2017 Prius, I had a 2011 Prius, I had a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid and my ex had a 2001 Prius.

I can pack a ton of stuff in my Prius and hit the road. I do it every month when I go to my vacation house in the central part of the state. I've packed 11 of my daughter's friends in my Prius too. Then went straight up one of our infamous very tall hills. It went right up the hill no problem. Everyone was packed in and I was laughing hysterically but the car had no problem with it.

It's a great car. I've also saved a ton of money. When we were paying over 4 dollars a gallon for gas in the bush boy years, Only having to fill up the tank twice a month saved me a lot of money. I was still able to keep my gas expenses around 100 dollars a month.

I just filled my car yesterday. It was 3.19 a gallon. I paid 27 dollars to fill my car.

Recheck your math. The premium you paid for the Prius means the ROI from the increased mileage isn't until between 150,000 and 200,000 miles.

How much of a premium do you think I paid for my Prius?

Cmpasre a 30 pg top a 45 mpg: .022 gal/mil vs .033 gal/mi. Savings 1/3 of my fuel costs.

a 30 mpg car would need 6670 gal or cost $20K more than my Prius.

Compare the Prius cost to other vehicles of comparable size, hatchback, storage area.

I saved money. I reduced my emissions, It served my purpose well.

My father in law's car cost under $10K, gets 44MPG. He ran the numbers...and they were crystal-clear: the ROI on a hybrid is, for 95+% of drivers, simply not there.

For many it is not about a ROI. Sounds like your FIL drives a fuel efficient car which is good but many do not measure everything by $$$$.

Yeah, but the poster that we were responding to, specifically said "I'm saving a ton of money on gas!".

When you say you are 'saving money' that implies that..... it's about the money.

That said, a few posts back, she posted specifically that there were 4 types of hybrid/EV buyers.

The tech nerds, that want to be the nerd king with their nerd mobile.

The virtue signalers, that want to feel as though they are morally superior because their Earth destroying eco-wrecker car, is less damaging to the planet than yours, and therefore they have superior virtue.

The walking calculator road warrior type, that actually puts 30,000 miles on their car a year, and thus is actually saving money.

And then the majority which are proudly saying they save money, by spending $10,000 more for a car, to save $2,000 in gas, and are oblivious as to why the rest of us think public schools are utter failures at teaching basic math.

So yeah, I agree their are other motivations for buying one of these cars, and think those motivations are idiotic.

 

[Andylusion]

This is very interesting.

trump has been trying to take freedom from a handful of states, including California, by taking away their right to set their own air quality standards and requirements on car emissions.

So far 4 car companies have signed on with California to make cars with lower emissions and higher gas mileage no matter what trump does.

I don't understand why anyone would be against higher mileage and lower emissions. I decided in 2001 to never buy a regular gas car again. And I haven't. I've saved a lot of money on gas and I'm not polluting the air as much. Half the time I'm driving totally on electricity.

I hope California is able to get more car companies to sign on.

California bypasses Trump to sign tougher mileage deal with 4 car makers

I own a 2012 VW Jetta TDI. I paid $26k cash new. 500 miles on 3/4 tank with a/c on @ 80mph. It runs circles around a f'n Prius, it was way less money, too. We have a small fleet of Prius' and they are so uncomfortable and butt-ugly. The VW doesn't have an embedded cyber connection either.

Car Manufacturers Are Tracking Millions of Cars - Slashdot

Why didn't you sell it back and how is the "fix" working out?

Fix? What fix? Maybe I missed something, but I wasn't aware there was any real problem with them.

The problem was VW had a program that detected when the car was being tested for gas mileage, and put it in a low-performance mode, that got better gas mileage.

But that program in the car, had zero effect on real world driving. It only really affected the mileage test by the government, which allowed VW to put on a higher gas mileage in their advertising.

In reality, the average MPG were lower than advertised, but honestly, it's a good car, and it gets very good gas mileage. I would not have returned one, if I owned it.

The fix, was equally unimportant. It was a software change in the cars computer, that turned off that low-performance mode. Which since you would rarely if ever accidentally activate the mode by doing a specific combination of steps, it isn't likely that you would ever notice a difference in your cars handling.

Unless you are talking about some other thing, this was a non-event.

 

[pknopp]

Yes I have a 2017 Prius, I had a 2011 Prius, I had a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid and my ex had a 2001 Prius.

I can pack a ton of stuff in my Prius and hit the road. I do it every month when I go to my vacation house in the central part of the state. I've packed 11 of my daughter's friends in my Prius too. Then went straight up one of our infamous very tall hills. It went right up the hill no problem. Everyone was packed in and I was laughing hysterically but the car had no problem with it.

It's a great car. I've also saved a ton of money. When we were paying over 4 dollars a gallon for gas in the bush boy years, Only having to fill up the tank twice a month saved me a lot of money. I was still able to keep my gas expenses around 100 dollars a month.

I just filled my car yesterday. It was 3.19 a gallon. I paid 27 dollars to fill my car.

Recheck your math. The premium you paid for the Prius means the ROI from the increased mileage isn't until between 150,000 and 200,000 miles.

How much of a premium do you think I paid for my Prius?

Cmpasre a 30 pg top a 45 mpg: .022 gal/mil vs .033 gal/mi. Savings 1/3 of my fuel costs.

a 30 mpg car would need 6670 gal or cost $20K more than my Prius.

Compare the Prius cost to other vehicles of comparable size, hatchback, storage area.

I saved money. I reduced my emissions, It served my purpose well.

My father in law's car cost under $10K, gets 44MPG. He ran the numbers...and they were crystal-clear: the ROI on a hybrid is, for 95+% of drivers, simply not there.

For many it is not about a ROI. Sounds like your FIL drives a fuel efficient car which is good but many do not measure everything by $$$$.

Yeah, but the poster that we were responding to, specifically said "I'm saving a ton of money on gas!".

When you say you are 'saving money' that implies that..... it's about the money.

That said, a few posts back, she posted specifically that there were 4 types of hybrid/EV buyers.

The tech nerds, that want to be the nerd king with their nerd mobile.

The virtue signalers, that want to feel as though they are morally superior because their Earth destroying eco-wrecker car, is less damaging to the planet than yours, and therefore they have superior virtue.

The walking calculator road warrior type, that actually puts 30,000 miles on their car a year, and thus is actually saving money.

And then the majority which are proudly saying they save money, by spending $10,000 more for a car, to save $2,000 in gas, and are oblivious as to why the rest of us think public schools are utter failures at teaching basic math.

So yeah, I agree their are other motivations for buying one of these cars, and think those motivations are idiotic.

You don t have to spend 10,000 more so perhaps you are right about the schools