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Air travel, sea travel, road travel and rail travel are subsidized by the federal government.What happens when air travel doesn't pay for itself?There's no particular reason to compare trains exclusively with toll roads.I know what you said, you compared passenger trains to public roads, which is absurd, so I compared them to toll roads, which at least makes sense because the only people that pay for a toll road are the people that use it.
By the way, the side I picked was hard science and facts. Like I said, people like you, that ignore both, make my life easier.
My point is that there is no more reason to require trains to fully pay for themselves through tolls than there is to require new freeways to pay for themselves through tolls.
I like hard science and facts. But, I haven't seen any hard science or facts concerning fast rail from SF to LA other than that a new ridership prediction would end up meaning that some or all of the route (unclear) wouldn't pay for itself. And, I'm pointing out that "pay for itself" isn't a requirement for freeways.
Also, I pointed out that it isn't a requirement that air travel pay for itself. So, it doesn't. And, it isn't a requirement that travel by ship pay for itself. So, it doesn't.
Airlines go out of business.
What happens when sea travel doesn't pay for itself?
Shipping and cruise lines go out of business.
You really have no concept of how business operates, do you?
This has always been the White Elephant project of all White Elephant projects. A hundred billion dollars, spent to benefit a very few people, at a time when California already has adequate road and air transportation, and is under staggering debts with its liberal politicians pouring on more and more.
Not sure what Obama has to do with all this, aside from the fact that massive Federal funds were coming in to help pay for it, even though most of the country would never had ridden on the train.
Then, to everyone's surprise, a judge actually announced that California had to obey the law.
That brought everything to a screeching halt.
Hopefully the second sentence of the article is correct.
-------------------------------------
Obama's High-Speed Rail Plan Loses Big in California Court
Conn Carroll | Nov 26, 2013
California Gov. Jerry Brown can not spend state bond revenues on President Obama's signature transportation project until the state can identify how they will pay for the entire $68 billion project, a California court ruled Monday. The decision almost certainly spells death for the project.
This August, Superior Court Judge Michael Kenny ruled that the California High Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) abused its discretion by approving a funding plan that did not comply with the requirements of the law."
That law would be Proposition 1A (the Safe, Reliable, High-Speed Passenger Train Bond Act for the 21st Century), which required the CHSRA to identify sources of all funds to be invested in the corridor and complete all necessary project level environmental clearances before construction can begin.
At the time, Democrats sold Obama's high-speed rail plan as a $40 billion project. But that number quickly skyrocketed to more than $100 billion, after California voters approved it, of course.
Yeah really....Who needs improved mass transportation in California. Keep the cars on the roads. The oil companies need the money and the air needs the smog.
There was a time when America was ready to take on challenges. Lincoln started the transcontential railroad during the civil war. Teddy Roosevelt gave us a national park system. FDR gave us a Social Security safety net. Eisenhower gave us the federal interstate system. Nixon gave us the EPA. Kennedy took us to the moon. Todays gop wants to take us back to 1950. Stop and think: When was the last time the republicans came up with ANY idea to move this country forward. All we have heard for the last 4+ years is NO, NO, NO. America can't do ANYTHING.This has always been the White Elephant project of all White Elephant projects. A hundred billion dollars, spent to benefit a very few people, at a time when California already has adequate road and air transportation, and is under staggering debts with its liberal politicians pouring on more and more.
Not sure what Obama has to do with all this, aside from the fact that massive Federal funds were coming in to help pay for it, even though most of the country would never had ridden on the train.
Then, to everyone's surprise, a judge actually announced that California had to obey the law.
That brought everything to a screeching halt.
Hopefully the second sentence of the article is correct.
-------------------------------------
Obama's High-Speed Rail Plan Loses Big in California Court
Conn Carroll | Nov 26, 2013
California Gov. Jerry Brown can not spend state bond revenues on President Obama's signature transportation project until the state can identify how they will pay for the entire $68 billion project, a California court ruled Monday. The decision almost certainly spells death for the project.
This August, Superior Court Judge Michael Kenny ruled that the California High Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) abused its discretion by approving a funding plan that did not comply with the requirements of the law."
That law would be Proposition 1A (the Safe, Reliable, High-Speed Passenger Train Bond Act for the 21st Century), which required the CHSRA to identify sources of all funds to be invested in the corridor and complete all necessary project level environmental clearances before construction can begin.
At the time, Democrats sold Obama's high-speed rail plan as a $40 billion project. But that number quickly skyrocketed to more than $100 billion, after California voters approved it, of course.
Ten dollars a gallon and tens of thousands of people with respiratory problems might change things. But of course, the gop will still be bitching and doing everything possible to protect the energy industry even as they kill off Americans!Nobody likes trains. People prefer traveling in cars. No amount of liberal bitching is going to change that.
Ten dollars a gallon and tens of thousands of people with respiratory problems might change things. But of course, the gop will still be bitching and doing everything possible to protect the energy industry even as they kill off Americans!Nobody likes trains. People prefer traveling in cars. No amount of liberal bitching is going to change that.
There was a time when America was ready to take on challenges. Lincoln started the transcontential railroad during the civil war. Teddy Roosevelt gave us a national park system. FDR gave us a Social Security safety net. Eisenhower gave us the federal interstate system. Nixon gave us the EPA. Kennedy took us to the moon. Todays gop wants to take us back to 1950. Stop and think: When was the last time the republicans came up with ANY idea to move this country forward. All we have heard for the last 4+ years is NO, NO, NO. America can't do ANYTHING.This has always been the White Elephant project of all White Elephant projects. A hundred billion dollars, spent to benefit a very few people, at a time when California already has adequate road and air transportation, and is under staggering debts with its liberal politicians pouring on more and more.
Not sure what Obama has to do with all this, aside from the fact that massive Federal funds were coming in to help pay for it, even though most of the country would never had ridden on the train.
Then, to everyone's surprise, a judge actually announced that California had to obey the law.
That brought everything to a screeching halt.
Hopefully the second sentence of the article is correct.
-------------------------------------
Obama's High-Speed Rail Plan Loses Big in California Court
Conn Carroll | Nov 26, 2013
California Gov. Jerry Brown can not spend state bond revenues on President Obama's signature transportation project until the state can identify how they will pay for the entire $68 billion project, a California court ruled Monday. The decision almost certainly spells death for the project.
This August, Superior Court Judge Michael Kenny ruled that the California High Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) abused its discretion by approving a funding plan that did not comply with the requirements of the law."
That law would be Proposition 1A (the Safe, Reliable, High-Speed Passenger Train Bond Act for the 21st Century), which required the CHSRA to identify sources of all funds to be invested in the corridor and complete all necessary project level environmental clearances before construction can begin.
At the time, Democrats sold Obama's high-speed rail plan as a $40 billion project. But that number quickly skyrocketed to more than $100 billion, after California voters approved it, of course.
The United States is heading toward being a third world country and we can thank the gop for their war against the American people for making it so.
True. Americans refuse to give up the freedom they have with their own set of wheels...that they control rather than mass transit that they have NO control over.Rail just isn't an economical way to move passengers. This one state project will require 50 million riders a year to break even. It just is not even remotely possible.
The Government's PrayerAir travel, sea travel, road travel and rail travel are subsidized by the federal government.What happens when air travel doesn't pay for itself?There's no particular reason to compare trains exclusively with toll roads.
My point is that there is no more reason to require trains to fully pay for themselves through tolls than there is to require new freeways to pay for themselves through tolls.
I like hard science and facts. But, I haven't seen any hard science or facts concerning fast rail from SF to LA other than that a new ridership prediction would end up meaning that some or all of the route (unclear) wouldn't pay for itself. And, I'm pointing out that "pay for itself" isn't a requirement for freeways.
Also, I pointed out that it isn't a requirement that air travel pay for itself. So, it doesn't. And, it isn't a requirement that travel by ship pay for itself. So, it doesn't.
Airlines go out of business.
What happens when sea travel doesn't pay for itself?
Shipping and cruise lines go out of business.
You really have no concept of how business operates, do you?
Airlines NEVER pay their full way. We don't ask them to.
Your view is from inside the cocoon that our federal government provides to incubate private enterprise. You need to broaden your vision.
There was a time when America was ready to take on challenges. Lincoln started the transcontential railroad during the civil war. Teddy Roosevelt gave us a national park system. FDR gave us a Social Security safety net. Eisenhower gave us the federal interstate system. Nixon gave us the EPA. Kennedy took us to the moon. Todays gop wants to take us back to 1950. Stop and think: When was the last time the republicans came up with ANY idea to move this country forward. All we have heard for the last 4+ years is NO, NO, NO. America can't do ANYTHING.This has always been the White Elephant project of all White Elephant projects. A hundred billion dollars, spent to benefit a very few people, at a time when California already has adequate road and air transportation, and is under staggering debts with its liberal politicians pouring on more and more.
Not sure what Obama has to do with all this, aside from the fact that massive Federal funds were coming in to help pay for it, even though most of the country would never had ridden on the train.
Then, to everyone's surprise, a judge actually announced that California had to obey the law.
That brought everything to a screeching halt.
Hopefully the second sentence of the article is correct.
-------------------------------------
Obama's High-Speed Rail Plan Loses Big in California Court
Conn Carroll | Nov 26, 2013
California Gov. Jerry Brown can not spend state bond revenues on President Obama's signature transportation project until the state can identify how they will pay for the entire $68 billion project, a California court ruled Monday. The decision almost certainly spells death for the project.
This August, Superior Court Judge Michael Kenny ruled that the California High Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) abused its discretion by approving a funding plan that did not comply with the requirements of the law."
That law would be Proposition 1A (the Safe, Reliable, High-Speed Passenger Train Bond Act for the 21st Century), which required the CHSRA to identify sources of all funds to be invested in the corridor and complete all necessary project level environmental clearances before construction can begin.
At the time, Democrats sold Obama's high-speed rail plan as a $40 billion project. But that number quickly skyrocketed to more than $100 billion, after California voters approved it, of course.
The United States is heading toward being a third world country and we can thank the gop for their war against the American people for making it so.
That's right...the optimum way to maximize profits is to kill all your customers.Ten dollars a gallon and tens of thousands of people with respiratory problems might change things. But of course, the gop will still be bitching and doing everything possible to protect the energy industry even as they kill off Americans!Nobody likes trains. People prefer traveling in cars. No amount of liberal bitching is going to change that.
Well, airlines and airports do get subsidies.
Correct. Commerce vs. Socialist projects.Well, airlines and airports do get subsidies.
Air service is considered an essential part of our economy. As are freight railroads and our network of highways.
Passenger rail is simply a frill. There is a reason 90% of the rail service is for freight only.
It moves the goods that drive the economy.
This proposal in California is another make work project disguised as a new mode of travel.
It's destined to be a white elephant.
Well, airlines and airports do get subsidies.
Air travel, sea travel, road travel and rail travel are subsidized by the federal government.What happens when air travel doesn't pay for itself?There's no particular reason to compare trains exclusively with toll roads.
My point is that there is no more reason to require trains to fully pay for themselves through tolls than there is to require new freeways to pay for themselves through tolls.
I like hard science and facts. But, I haven't seen any hard science or facts concerning fast rail from SF to LA other than that a new ridership prediction would end up meaning that some or all of the route (unclear) wouldn't pay for itself. And, I'm pointing out that "pay for itself" isn't a requirement for freeways.
Also, I pointed out that it isn't a requirement that air travel pay for itself. So, it doesn't. And, it isn't a requirement that travel by ship pay for itself. So, it doesn't.
Airlines go out of business.
What happens when sea travel doesn't pay for itself?
Shipping and cruise lines go out of business.
You really have no concept of how business operates, do you?
Airlines NEVER pay their full way. We don't ask them to.
Your view is from inside the cocoon that our federal government provides to incubate private enterprise. You need to broaden your vision.
Air travel, sea travel, road travel and rail travel are subsidized by the federal government.What happens when air travel doesn't pay for itself?There's no particular reason to compare trains exclusively with toll roads.
My point is that there is no more reason to require trains to fully pay for themselves through tolls than there is to require new freeways to pay for themselves through tolls.
I like hard science and facts. But, I haven't seen any hard science or facts concerning fast rail from SF to LA other than that a new ridership prediction would end up meaning that some or all of the route (unclear) wouldn't pay for itself. And, I'm pointing out that "pay for itself" isn't a requirement for freeways.
Also, I pointed out that it isn't a requirement that air travel pay for itself. So, it doesn't. And, it isn't a requirement that travel by ship pay for itself. So, it doesn't.
Airlines go out of business.
What happens when sea travel doesn't pay for itself?
Shipping and cruise lines go out of business.
You really have no concept of how business operates, do you?
Airlines NEVER pay their full way. We don't ask them to.
Your view is from inside the cocoon that our federal government provides to incubate private enterprise. You need to broaden your vision.
1. Amtrak is certainly worth examination, as it can help us determine when and where rail could be effective.Not really. Amtrak was sold to the American people with the premise that it would break even, or generate a profit.Comparison to Amtrak must be done with significant care, as the vast majority of Amtrak has little similarity to this system other than that it is on rails.
It never has.
CA's toy train is being sold to the American public that it will break even, or generate a profit.
It never will.
2. roads and bridges don't write you a check (outside of some toll roads). Airlines don't fully carry their load, either. There isn't a fundamental reason to demand that transportation generates a profit from direct operations. Transportation infrastructure is a fundamental necessity for private sector prosperity in the USA.
That is an important way it pays us.
I'm not suggesting that users should not pay for infrastructure they use. I'm just saying that full repayment by users isn't some sort of absolute. Or, at least it never has been so far.
