Callling All 'Holocaust Deniers'!

[Saigon]

Sunni -

Fair enough - that does like legitimate, except for the UK.

I know it is a difficult issue, but I am sure you are also opposed to racism and hate speech against your own people. I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Nazis themselves had no reasonable reason to rig the numbers though

I disagree. Officers in charge certainly wanted to look good, and in a performance-based bureaucracy, that can oft mean exaggerations that make you look extra 'productive' or make your failure excusable.

There is a reason most historians are highly skeptical of the body counts and kill-ratios claimed by generals on both sides of historical conflicts.
Best to go with the available evidence- forensics, reliable populations counts before and after, that sort of thing, rather than expecting any involved parties to be 100% reliable and interested only in factual accuracy. What I'm saying is I don't believe anybody who was involved can be disinterested.

I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended. THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers. As for the records themselves, who knows? But given the brutality of the Nazi regime and how harshly they dealt with lawbreakers, I would guess officials did not try to cheat much and risk getting caught.

 

[Sunni Man]

I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended. THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers.

They were imprisoned, tortured. and facing the death penalty by hanging.

So of course they had no motive to try and save their lives by saying and signing anything they were told........

 

[Swagger]

Sunni -

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of that list...I suspect exactly what is illegal is very different from place to place.

Hate speech may be illegal in the UK, but plenty of so-called "Revisionists" live and work there.

The European Union's executive Commission proposed a European Union-wide anti-racism xenophobia law in 2001, which included the criminalization of Holocaust denial. On July 15, 1996, the Council of the European Union adopted the Joint action/96/443/JHA concerning action to combat racism and xenophobia.

Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago.

You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.

 

[namvet]

Maybe, where and how much?

belongs to Ahmadinejad - he'll fill in the bomb crater. dirt cheap

How many acres and how much? I like the crater, plus, water close to the surface. Nice flat area...

since he supports Obozo it now up to 10 trillion. also there's a nuke plant next door with a bulls eye on top for the IDF

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive. Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.

Those who deny it have an agenda. Imo.

-Jeremiah

 

[namvet]

I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended. THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers.

They were imprisoned, tortured. and facing the death penalty by hanging.

So of course they had no motive to try and save their lives by saying and signing anything they were told........

you making bread again ???

 

[Saigon]

There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago.

You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.

I was thinking that was probably true of the UK.

I don't know what you mean by selective media though. In general I don't think the public or media have much time for people who are out-and-out lying, whether it is denying that straight people can get AIDS, claiming Israelis were responsible for 9/11, claiming CO2 is good for us, or that the Holocause never happened.

Society has moved on from those issues with general consensus, and I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't mean any new angle wouldn't be explored or published if it had merit.

 

[Swagger]

Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive. Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.

Those who deny it have an agenda. Imo.

-Jeremiah

Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?

 

[Unkotare]

Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive. Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.

Those who deny it have an agenda. Imo.

-Jeremiah

Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?

Nothing worse than a whiny wannabe-Nazi.

 

[Sunni Man]

As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.

And the alleged event becomes ancient history.

The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.

Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........

 

[Saigon]

[

Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?

They do stand up. (I've done more research on this than most as I once spent a summer writing a history of the city of Cracow).

I think the main reason for the attacks and occasional overkill is the link between Holocaust Denial and Neo-Nazis. A LOT of apparent "historical research" has purely and simply been about attacking Jews and promoting a Fourth Reich.

Ernst Zundel is a classic example of this, but there are others.

 

[Swagger]

There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago.

You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.

I was thinking that was probably true of the UK.

I don't know what you mean by selective media though. In general I don't think the public or media have much time for people who are out-and-out lying, whether it is denying that straight people can get AIDS, claiming Israelis were responsible for 9/11, claiming CO2 is good for us, or that the Holocause never happened.

Society has moved on from those issues with general consensus, and I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't mean any new angle wouldn't be explored or published if it had merit.

Society may have moved-on, but the press certainly haven't.

You'd be either incredibly out-of-touch or incredibly dishonest if you argued against the liklihood of a politician, historian or celebrity going on public record and saying that they had doubts over events, data and/or witness testimony surrounding the Holocaust without incurring the indignant wrath of the international media.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive. Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.

Those who deny it have an agenda. Imo.

-Jeremiah

Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?

So true and why shouldn't we go to whatever length necessary to dispel the rumors, lies that holocaust revisionists are busily trying to sell the world as truth? I'm not going to sit by and allow that! Are you out of your mind? Have you not ever heard of the term collective responsibility? Well those who correct the lies are on the right side of it I'll tell you! And the rest of the world had better get busy!! Seriously! The nerve! - Jeremiah

 

[Saigon]

Nothing worse than a whiny wannabe-Nazi.

Says the person who spends his days trying to close down debate.

Dude - you are a Nazi in all but the colour of your shirt.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

That last reply was to the poster who was identifying them as wannabe nazis... I agree,,,

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

denying the holocaust is an act of anti semitism, clearly.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.

And the alleged event becomes ancient history.

The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.

Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........

No it won't. The jury is in. It was a holocaust and the world agrees with......never again. So watch out.

-Jeremiah

 

[Saigon]

You'd be either incredibly out-of-touch or incredibly dishonest if you argued against the liklihood of a politician, historian or celebrity going on public record and saying that they had doubts over events, data and/or witness testimony surrounding the Holocaust without incurring the indignant wrath of the international media.

No, they would incur the wrath of the media and public alike.

So did Jacob Zuma when he claimed showering after sex prevented HIV infection.

So did Ahmedinajad when he claimed there were no gay people in Iran.

I don't see the difference, myself.

 

[ima]

As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.

And the alleged event becomes ancient history.

The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.

Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........

At least you're not denying that Mohammed was a pedophile. So what really happened with Mo and why was he interested in little girls?