Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[Sallow]

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]
and on
and on
and on..................

The problem with these right wingernut dipshits is they actually believe all that bullshit. They stand on the soapbox of ignorance and say "prove it". And it's so easy. Because stupid doesn't think. It doesn't need to. Because in it's own deluded mind, it's always right.

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]

The question is what does the government do efficiently. You obviously didn't get it.

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

horseshit. are the following corporations not interested in the public good?

St Judes
MD Anderson
Apple
Microsoft
Facebook
GE
GM
Ford
Budweiser

Sure they make profit, profit is not evil. profit makes the economy work, profit creates jobs, profit pays taxes

what you left wing fools don't get is that corporations fail when they do the things you listed.

No they are not.

They are interested in "looking" like they are interested because it helps the bottom line.

If no one gave a shit, they wouldn't either.

so in your small mind all of those corporations are frauds? Really, I bet you have stock in them in your 401K. more hypocrisy from the left. you are a moron, swallow shallow.

You engage in nothing but rants and insults, and I have the small mind?

 

[rightwinger]

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.


Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

USPS vs Fedex and UPS on package delivery----------------------nuff said.

Why do Fedex and UPS pay the USPS to deliver some of their packages?

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

 

[Redfish]

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

very true. there were times when we bid a ship overhaul contract against a navy shipyard. There was no accurate way to compare the estimates because the navy yard was subsidized by the govt in many ways, overtly and covertly. It was a joke of a bidding process.

 

[rdean]

Most of them.

brilliant reply, swallow. Got any examples?

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]
and on
and on
and on..................

The problem with these right wingernut dipshits is they actually believe all that bullshit. They stand on the soapbox of ignorance and say "prove it". And it's so easy. Because stupid doesn't think. It doesn't need to. Because in it's own deluded mind, it's always right.

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]

The question is what does the government do efficiently. You obviously didn't get it.

Just saying government doesn't do it efficiently only ends up being a matter of opinion. The fact that government does all these things and does them well is proof enough. To a right wingernut, if it's not "free", it's not efficient. See how long these wack-a-doodles last without safe food, clean water and vaccines.

 

[Redfish]

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.


Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

USPS vs Fedex and UPS on package delivery----------------------nuff said.

Why do Fedex and UPS pay the USPS to deliver some of their packages?

to keep USPS in business. Fedex and UPS pay USPS less than it would cost them to make the deliveries and since USPS is always in the red it doesn't matter.

 

[rdean]

Most of them.

brilliant reply, swallow. Got any examples?

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]
and on
and on
and on..................

The problem with these right wingernut dipshits is they actually believe all that bullshit. They stand on the soapbox of ignorance and say "prove it". And it's so easy. Because stupid doesn't think. It doesn't need to. Because in it's own deluded mind, it's always right.

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]

The question is what does the government do efficiently. You obviously didn't get it.

You know what's especially hilarious about the so called corporate "clean water"? US standards are so stringent that corporations can fill plastic bottles with water out of a hose behind the building and sell it as meeting government standards of cleanliness.
Oh these right wingernuts. To much propaganda has left them loony.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.


many of those over paid executives are civil servants. Have you looked at the SES pay scale recently? How about the pay scales for Admirals and Generals? How about the retirement plans for congress?

Over paid, non-performing executives are numerous in the government. And, yes many CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. How would you propose to curtail over payment in govt and private industry?
You don't have a leg to stand on here.

You really don't want me to get into a rant about how creation of the Senior Executive Service was the worst thing Jimmy Carter ever did, do you?

I offer up as example the entire VA scandal. Throw in a touch of the IRS one, too. Oh, and the EPA spy scandal.

SES allowed the government to be more competitive in attracting executives. Capping at a GS-15 never made sense. Next thing they need to do is pay good SES's more than Congress

No, it didn't. The SES still comes from within, almost overwhelmingly.

Also, it was never capped at GS-15. Before the SES was formed, there were grades GS-16-18.

As far as the pay, SES pay is high enough. Although there were many GS-15s like myself who chose not to apply because they are crappy jobs with too much politics (Big P and little p politics) to be worth the 6% raise.

The SES bonus system is where the real mess is. Just look at VA.

 

[Redfish]

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Sallow is a left wing talking point repeater, he/she/it never knows what it talking about. You will learn that as you spend more time on the board. rightwinger and jake are two more like sallow.

 

[rdean]

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.


Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

USPS vs Fedex and UPS on package delivery----------------------nuff said.

Why do Fedex and UPS pay the USPS to deliver some of their packages?

to keep USPS in business. Fedex and UPS pay USPS less than it would cost them to make the deliveries and since USPS is always in the red it doesn't matter.

That's stupid. Why would Fedex and UPS want the USPS to stay in business? Without the USPS, they could charge more. Next time, spend some time thinking it through.

 

[rightwinger]

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.


many of those over paid executives are civil servants. Have you looked at the SES pay scale recently? How about the pay scales for Admirals and Generals? How about the retirement plans for congress?

Over paid, non-performing executives are numerous in the government. And, yes many CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. How would you propose to curtail over payment in govt and private industry?
You don't have a leg to stand on here.

You really don't want me to get into a rant about how creation of the Senior Executive Service was the worst thing Jimmy Carter ever did, do you?

I offer up as example the entire VA scandal. Throw in a touch of the IRS one, too. Oh, and the EPA spy scandal.

SES allowed the government to be more competitive in attracting executives. Capping at a GS-15 never made sense. Next thing they need to do is pay good SES's more than Congress

No, it didn't. The SES still comes from within, almost overwhelmingly.

Also, it was never capped at GS-15. Before the SES was formed, there were grades GS-16-18.

As far as the pay, SES pay is high enough. Although there were many GS-15s like myself who chose not to apply because they are crappy jobs with too much politics (Big P and little p politics) to be worth the 6% raise.

The SES bonus system is where the real mess is. Just look at VA.

Like anything else....you get what you pay for

Same goes for executives. The real money for SES's come after they retire and they get to use their influence and contacts

 

[Redfish]

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.


many of those over paid executives are civil servants. Have you looked at the SES pay scale recently? How about the pay scales for Admirals and Generals? How about the retirement plans for congress?

Over paid, non-performing executives are numerous in the government. And, yes many CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. How would you propose to curtail over payment in govt and private industry?
You don't have a leg to stand on here.

You really don't want me to get into a rant about how creation of the Senior Executive Service was the worst thing Jimmy Carter ever did, do you?

I offer up as example the entire VA scandal. Throw in a touch of the IRS one, too. Oh, and the EPA spy scandal.

SES allowed the government to be more competitive in attracting executives. Capping at a GS-15 never made sense. Next thing they need to do is pay good SES's more than Congress

Right, get that national debt up to 25 trillion before obozo leaves.

 

[Redfish]

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.


many of those over paid executives are civil servants. Have you looked at the SES pay scale recently? How about the pay scales for Admirals and Generals? How about the retirement plans for congress?

Over paid, non-performing executives are numerous in the government. And, yes many CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. How would you propose to curtail over payment in govt and private industry?
You don't have a leg to stand on here.

You really don't want me to get into a rant about how creation of the Senior Executive Service was the worst thing Jimmy Carter ever did, do you?

I offer up as example the entire VA scandal. Throw in a touch of the IRS one, too. Oh, and the EPA spy scandal.

SES allowed the government to be more competitive in attracting executives. Capping at a GS-15 never made sense. Next thing they need to do is pay good SES's more than Congress

No, it didn't. The SES still comes from within, almost overwhelmingly.

Also, it was never capped at GS-15. Before the SES was formed, there were grades GS-16-18.

As far as the pay, SES pay is high enough. Although there were many GS-15s like myself who chose not to apply because they are crappy jobs with too much politics (Big P and little p politics) to be worth the 6% raise.

The SES bonus system is where the real mess is. Just look at VA.

Like anything else....you get what you pay for

Same goes for executives. The real money for SES's come after they retire and they get to use their influence and contacts

does that apply in the private sector as well?

 

[Sallow]

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.


many of those over paid executives are civil servants. Have you looked at the SES pay scale recently? How about the pay scales for Admirals and Generals? How about the retirement plans for congress?

Over paid, non-performing executives are numerous in the government. And, yes many CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. How would you propose to curtail over payment in govt and private industry?
You don't have a leg to stand on here.

You really don't want me to get into a rant about how creation of the Senior Executive Service was the worst thing Jimmy Carter ever did, do you?

I offer up as example the entire VA scandal. Throw in a touch of the IRS one, too. Oh, and the EPA spy scandal.

SES allowed the government to be more competitive in attracting executives. Capping at a GS-15 never made sense. Next thing they need to do is pay good SES's more than Congress

No, it didn't. The SES still comes from within, almost overwhelmingly.

Also, it was never capped at GS-15. Before the SES was formed, there were grades GS-16-18.

As far as the pay, SES pay is high enough. Although there were many GS-15s like myself who chose not to apply because they are crappy jobs with too much politics (Big P and little p politics) to be worth the 6% raise.

The SES bonus system is where the real mess is. Just look at VA.

Like anything else....you get what you pay for

Same goes for executives. The real money for SES's come after they retire and they get to use their influence and contacts

My last supervisor just retired. She had been an SES since the early 1980s.

She's taking courses and traveling.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

 

[Redfish]

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

the metrics you say you want are available. They have been posted on this forum and on TV, the internet, and all other media outlets. If you choose to ignore facts that are readily available and continue your mindless left wing rants, then you might as well roll up your keyboard and check out. you are wasting our time.

 

[Sallow]

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

Runs in terms of what?

I've worked with government (current and ex) employees on various projects. And I ran project for the Suffolk County Health Department as a sub contractor.

 

[Redfish]

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

 

[Sallow]

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.

Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

the metrics you say you want are available. They have been posted on this forum and on TV, the internet, and all other media outlets. If you choose to ignore facts that are readily available and continue your mindless left wing rants, then you might as well roll up your keyboard and check out. you are wasting our time.

Sorry..I don't look at Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Alex Jones, Brietbart, The Daily Caller, FOX, World News Daily, Glenn Beck and all the other right wing sources for your "metrics" as "reliable".

Oh..and you never posted your credit score. Why is that?