Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[AmericanGirl05]

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

Runs in terms of what?

I've worked with government (current and ex) employees on various projects. And I ran project for the Suffolk County Health Department as a sub contractor.

Run, operate.

And, may I just say that local and state governments operate much differently than the Federal Government. Different project scale, different accountability, and most importantly, state and local government employees are not generally subject to the Pendleton Act, Hatch Act (or equivalents) which are supposed to guarantee non-partisanship and professionalism.

 

[Sallow]

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

 

[Redfish]

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I never worked for the government. But I made a lot of money on government contracts.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I love my last supervisor. She's one of my two best friends.

BTW, I'm a "she." The moniker AmericanGirl should have been a dead giveaway.

But

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I never worked for the government. But I made a lot of money on government contracts.

 

[Sallow]

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I never worked for the government. But I made a lot of money on government contracts.

You are not a veteran?

Now I am confused.

 

[Care4all]

I've worked for several corporations, and they are NOT efficient either....

In fact some of the things they spend their stock holder's money on would cause ALL OF YOU to have tizzy fits...

As example, I worked for a Division of Reebok for several years...in the Corporate Headquarters....

They put in a gym second to none, for all of us to work out in, an hour allowed to do such, during our work day...

they put in a day care center, in our Corporate office building, for those who had children and needed Day Care and those women who were nursing to be able to nurse in a private place, they put in 2 separate, lovely comfortable rooms....

at the front entrance where security was, they had dry cleaning drop off, so those of us who traveled, didn't have to run to the cleaners, they had arrangements with a local dry cleaner to pick up our dry cleaning....and we got a discount.

When we traveled to market in New York and Las Vegas, they put us up in the most expensive and best hotels and casinos in town....not only was all of our food paid for such as Filet Minon or 3 inch thick Veal Chop, but all of our wine and liquor was paid for....along with any entertainment that we ventured to in the evening, was also part of our paid expenses.

We had Sales Meetings twice a year, one in Scottsdale Arizona where we stayed at the finest resort in town...and the other was in Colorado Springs, at the finest Resort and Golf Club....They paid our airfare, our taxis, our Limos....

We drank as much as we wanted to drink....and some executives, I can vow, took great advantage of this....

They paid for all of us to go to a one hour Spa session....(I usually got the Swedish Massage)! But you could choose other 1 hour Spa sessions like a Mud bath or Seaweed wrap etc.

One of our Vp's got married at Tavern on the Green in NYC, and they scheduled a faux meeting in our New York office for all of us executives that were going to her wedding, so that our hotels and and Air Fare from Boston was covered by the Corporation....

TRUST ME....

Government is much more efficient than Corporations in many, many ways....

AMEN!

 

[Sallow]

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I love my last supervisor. She's one of my two best friends.

BTW, I'm a "she." The moniker AmericanGirl should have been a dead giveaway.

But

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I never worked for the government. But I made a lot of money on government contracts.

Which post did I confuse your gender?

 

[rdean]

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.


many of those over paid executives are civil servants. Have you looked at the SES pay scale recently? How about the pay scales for Admirals and Generals? How about the retirement plans for congress?

Over paid, non-performing executives are numerous in the government. And, yes many CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. How would you propose to curtail over payment in govt and private industry?
You don't have a leg to stand on here.

You really don't want me to get into a rant about how creation of the Senior Executive Service was the worst thing Jimmy Carter ever did, do you?

I offer up as example the entire VA scandal. Throw in a touch of the IRS one, too. Oh, and the EPA spy scandal.

SES allowed the government to be more competitive in attracting executives. Capping at a GS-15 never made sense. Next thing they need to do is pay good SES's more than Congress

Right, get that national debt up to 25 trillion before obozo leaves.

Yea, let's take a look at that. Three trillion from Iraq, trillions in revenue lost from the Bush tax cuts, unknown trillions list from the GOP deregulated economy, unknown trillions from that horrible drugs for votes bill, unknown trillions from the tens of thousands maimed for life in Iraq and we haven't even gotten to Obama. Republicans live on the Bizarro world where if they say bullshit that makes it true.

 

[rdean]

One of the problems (and this is a serious post) with measuring performance in the government is that there are few widgets to measure -- and those that we have measure output, not effectiveness or efficiency.

For example, take an enforcement program. Is the measure of effectiveness how many criminals are caught OR the deterrent effect? Obviously, both, but how do you measure the deterrent effect?

If you are going to engage in this type of thread, and be taken seriously? At least know the territory.

I work in the private sector and have to provide, on a bi-annual basis, the rational for my continuing employment.

I do this with metrics..that have real numbers and can be measured.

Or you can just rant about shit.

Like the OP.

At least know the territory??????

I am a retired Federal employee with 38 years of service. I retired 3 years ago as a GS-15. I worked in 6 different Federal agencies, and in the last one for 22 years.

If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about in this thread, it's you.

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

From people who believe vaccines cause autism, the world is 6,000 years old and we were shimmered into being from dirt. Hilarious.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Most of them.

brilliant reply, swallow. Got any examples?

providing clean water to drink
keeping the peace
sending out Social Security checks
reducing workplace injuries
ensuring aircraft safety
feeding the hungry
putting out fires
protecting consumers
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up)
vaccines
interstate highway system
GI Bill
Telephone infrastructure
Funding railroads
centers for disease control
human genome project
employee rights
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban)
FAA
National weather service
and on
and on
and on..................

The problem with these right wingernut dipshits is they actually believe all that bullshit. They stand on the soapbox of ignorance and say "prove it". And it's so easy. Because stupid doesn't think. It doesn't need to. Because in it's own deluded mind, it's always right.

thats kinda like this poster here named Dean....he thinks he is always right too....

 

[Harry Dresden]

read the dam thread Bri.....Redfish is basically saying if you have any waste at all you aint an efficient company....i say probably every big company will have a certain amount of waste....are you going to argue that?....

Waste always occurs, you can only try to minimize it. Private companies strive to reduce it, for public services, it means you get a reduction in your budget if you can operate more efficiently. The emphasis in government is to cry poor an demand more to demonstrate how you are functioning under budgeted.

which is exactly what i said.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

i am willing to bet every huge corporation has waste.........all you can do is hope your managers around the Country and or World can minimize it as much as possible....

What's your point?

lets see.....that every huge corporation has waste?....gee was it that tough to figure out?....

Yeah, so they have waste. So what?

read the dam thread Bri.....Redfish is basically saying if you have any waste at all you aint an efficient company....i say probably every big company will have a certain amount of waste....are you going to argue that?....

I haven't noticed him saying that. Can you provide a quote?

because he is BASICALLY saying that.....geezus are you becoming the rights version of Dean?....he plays that game too....and how come you did not ask Weasel what his point was?....he said the same fucking thing i did...

 

[Harry Dresden]

i am willing to bet every huge corporation has waste.........all you can do is hope your managers around the Country and or World can minimize it as much as possible....

What's your point?

lets see.....that every huge corporation has waste?....gee was it that tough to figure out?....

Yeah, so they have waste. So what?

read the dam thread Bri.....Redfish is basically saying if you have any waste at all you aint an efficient company....i say probably every big company will have a certain amount of waste....are you going to argue that?....

the thread asks the question, what govt agency has ever operated efficiently? second question, why do you dems and libs want to turn your health over to the government?

Yes, there is some waste in private business, but they either minimize it or they go out of business----------thats the point, moron. Those rules do not apply to govt agencies.

which is what i said dipshit....geezus .....and show me where i ever said this.... want to turn your health over to the government?.....when you cant find it i will accept your apology....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Most of them.

brilliant reply, swallow. Got any examples?

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]
and on
and on
and on..................

The problem with these right wingernut dipshits is they actually believe all that bullshit. They stand on the soapbox of ignorance and say "prove it". And it's so easy. Because stupid doesn't think. It doesn't need to. Because in it's own deluded mind, it's always right.

providing clean water to drink [nope] Private corporations do it cheaper
keeping the peace [nope]
sending out Social Security checks [nope]
reducing workplace injuries [nope]
ensuring aircraft safety [nope]
feeding the hungry [nope]
putting out fires [nope]
protecting consumers [nope]
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up) [nope]
vaccines [nope]
interstate highway system [nope]
GI Bill [nope]
Telephone infrastructure [nope]
Funding railroads [nope]
centers for disease control [nope]
human genome project [nope]
employee rights [nope]
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban) [nope]
FAA [nope]
National weather service [nope]

The question is what does the government do efficiently. You obviously didn't get it.

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

not everyone is like the way you say they are Sallow....but your tent has some nice colors in it.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

How are you defining efficiently? Is there a threshold in which you classify something as not efficient?

according to the dictionary. "capable of producing desired results without wasting materials, time, or energy.

Using that definition, isn't the concept of "waste" a value judgement? I recognize that there is lots of resources, time and energy being put into the EPA, but I agree with the EPA's overall mission as an agency so therefore I don't view any of it as "waste"

The EPA forces business to spend trillions of dollars every year to keep the environment clean. Most of that money is wasted because it only makes the difference between one part per billion of contamination and one part per ten billion. The difference has no noticeable impact on the environment or human health. The EPA's recent jihad against mercury emissions for coal fired power plants is a classic example. The true purpose of these regulations was to shut down coal fired power plants, not to clean up the environment.

I disagree. You might not have been around in the 50s and 60s, as I was, but the air and water were dirtier. If, like me, you are originally from a coal and steel town, you have seen your grandparents', parents' and now your generation with more cancer than in less polluted areas.

they used to have smog alerts out here.....

 

[rdean]

Most of them.

brilliant reply, swallow. Got any examples?

providing clean water to drink
keeping the peace
sending out Social Security checks
reducing workplace injuries
ensuring aircraft safety
feeding the hungry
putting out fires
protecting consumers
regulating business (until Republicans fucked that up)
vaccines
interstate highway system
GI Bill
Telephone infrastructure
Funding railroads
centers for disease control
human genome project
employee rights
ban on leaded gas (lead in children's blood fell 37% in just a couple of years after the ban)
FAA
National weather service
and on
and on
and on..................

The problem with these right wingernut dipshits is they actually believe all that bullshit. They stand on the soapbox of ignorance and say "prove it". And it's so easy. Because stupid doesn't think. It doesn't need to. Because in it's own deluded mind, it's always right.

thats kinda like this poster here named Dean....he thinks he is always right too....

I rarely try to be in a position where I'm right or wrong. I have much to much fun posting Republican positions and policies.

Like blocking the BP investigation after the destruction of the gulf and 11 people dying on that unsafe oil rig. Could you imagine Democrats blocking such an investigation?

Or Democratic leaders saying, "Feed the poor and they will breed".

Or Democrats saying, "No tax cuts for the rich? Then no unemployment benefits for those who have lost their jobs under Bush".

Or Democrats saying, "Corporations are people my friend".

Or Democrats saying, "Fewer police, firemen and teachers".

Or Democrats trying to keep millions from health care.

or

well

You get the picture. I never said any of these were right or wrong. But what does your gut feeling tell you?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

well i can say the PO is not run efficiently......but it is run as effectively as the people who actually do the work can do it,in spite of middle managements interference......

 

[Harry Dresden]

Obviously you don't get it.

Efficiency at a private corporation means one thing.

Profit.

That's it.

They have no interest in the public good. None. Zero. Zip.

If it were possible to pay an employee nothing? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to package rat meat as beef? That's what they would do.

If it were possible to put swamp water into vials and call it "medicine"? That's what they would do.

It's historical fact.

We don't have millionaires and billionaires because of altruism. We have them because of greed.

And that's what motivates business. Not the public good.

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.


Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

USPS vs Fedex and UPS on package delivery----------------------nuff said.

and?......

 

[Redfish]

Well you should be able provide something in the way of what I am asking for..shouldn't you.

And you are correct. I've never held a Union Job or Government job.

I have always worked in the private sector or ran my own business.

So using the Romney protocol..I am the maker, you and Redfish are the takers.

Yeah, so? Civil service used to be an honorable profession.

But you don't seem to know very much about how government runs.

liberals do not understand how anything works. they are motivated by feeeeeeeeeeeeelings and emoooooooooooootions. their brains are not capable of logical rational thinking.

Says the former (?) government employee hatin' on his old boss..

I never worked for the government. But I made a lot of money on government contracts.

You are not a veteran?

Now I am confused.

I don't consider the military as civil service. But thats just the way I see it.

 

[Redfish]

Success and greed are not the same thing. One can be successful without being greedy. A company can be successful without taking advantage of its employees and customers. In fact the truth is that greedy corporations and people are rarely successful. Greed leads to corruption and corruption leads to failure and jail time----------can you say Madoff and Rostenkowski and Blogo and Abramoff?

Seriously. You are out of your element.

This whole thread is peppered with your convoluted rants and railings against the government, yet you have no gold standard to compare anything with.

The laws and regulations that have been implemented by the United States government has been directly responsible for it's prosperity.

The things the government runs? Have been run both effectively and efficiently. Better than most other places in the world and better now than in all US history.

And pointing out the downfall of a few bad actors doesn't help your case on greed in the slightest. We have executives making 100s of times more than employees. That's not because they work more hours or do more stuff.

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

Um, the things government runs have not always or even mostly been run effectively and efficiently.

They have been run according to the laws passed by Congress and implemented according to the policy of President in office at the time.

Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they accomplish the mission but aren't efficient.

You, like the OP, would buttress your case by providing something in the way of benchmarks and/or metrics..

Like say:

-Spacely Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 10,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $1 dollar a sprocket.

-Government Sprockets, in 2014, was able to produce 8,000 sprockets a week, at a cost of $2 dollars a sprocket.


Given the sprockets were of the same quality, obviously Spacely was more efficient.

USPS vs Fedex and UPS on package delivery----------------------nuff said.

and?......

USPS loses money every quarter, The others make money every quarter.

sorry to confuse you.