Can Atheists be Moral?

[Mindful]

Gawd, what a banal pointless conversation.

That’s pretty much all of your conversations.

Whatever turns you on.

 

[ding]

Gawd, what a banal pointless conversation.

That’s pretty much all of your conversations.

Whatever turns you on.

Because that wasn’t banal and pointless?

 

[Mindful]

Gawd, what a banal pointless conversation.

That’s pretty much all of your conversations.

Whatever turns you on.

Because that wasn’t banal and pointless?

Could have been.

 

[Blues Man]

So let me ask

Can a religious person be immoral?

Sure. Why not?

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

So the entire premise of this thread is a farce.

One does not need a god to be moral or to lead a good life.

The man who lives a good life because he is afraid of some eternal punishment if he doesn't is a cowardly man

The man who lives a good life knowing that there is no reward that in fact there is nothing beyond this life is the better of the two men

The problem is that the 2nd man definition of a "good" life is one that serves himself.

That man doesn't see the point of serving anyone but himself.

The 1st man knows he should act selflessly. While he occasionally does so, he too acts in his own interests all too often.

Neither man is good and neither lives a "good" life.

Still, the 2nd man is lazy and simply going with the flow of his base instincts, while the 1st man, while often failing, strives to rise above his base instincts.

Both men are condemned to Hell, but the first man understands he can't ever do enough good to make up for all the bad. That man submits himself to the saving grace of God and receives salvation as a free gift (not something earned).

The 2nd man spends his whole life pushing God away from himself and then complains when he ends up in Hell, which is simply the absence of God.

The 1st man is foolish, but redeemed by a just God. The 2nd man is just a fool.

A person can serve his own interests while serving the interests of others the two are not mutually exclusive

One can act selflessly with no expectation of reward and with no fear of punishment if he chooses not to.

One who acts selflessly because he is afraid of eternal damnation if he doesn't or expects an eternal reward if he does is not true in his intentions and is indeed acting solely to avoid punishment or to gain reward

No tell me who is the fool and who is making the purest choice?

 

[LittleNipper]

It takes a good man to know just how bad he is. ~C.S. Lewis.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

 

[Hollie]

It takes a good man to know just how bad he is. ~C.S. Lewis.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

What makes you think religious people are moral?

 

[sealybobo]

It takes a good man to know just how bad he is. ~C.S. Lewis.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests fucking. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are fucking.

 

[LittleNipper]

It takes a good man to know just how bad he is. ~C.S. Lewis.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

What makes you think religious people are moral?

Never said they were; however, religious people know their shortcomings.

 

[sealybobo]

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

What makes you think religious people are moral?

Never said they were; however, religious people know their shortcomings.

Now now we know our shortcomings too.

We just don’t believe any organized religions. Is there a god? We’ve been asking that for a million or so years. Ever since we started being smart enough to ponder such things. In all those millions of years we don’t believe it ever visited.

That’s the only difference between us and you

 

[LittleNipper]

It takes a good man to know just how bad he is. ~C.S. Lewis.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

 

[sealybobo]

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

And it seems the clergy would be the perfect place for a young closeted gay boy to go if his religion has raised him to believe gay sex is wrong. So they go into the priesthood and find other men just like them

The worst of them are pedophiles.

Most priests are able to suppress their gay urges. Some you find on to catch a predator or in gay chat rooms or gay bars.

Ps. God never visited.

 

[Hollie]

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

What makes you think religious people are moral?

Never said they were; however, religious people know their shortcomings.

I wasn't aware you were the spokes-religionist for religious people.

Were you voted in as Head Muckey-Muck in charge of Religious People's Opinions or is your biased opinion just another opinion?

 

[Hollie]

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

The gods never established any traditions. The unknown authors of the various bibles established those.

 

[LittleNipper]

It takes a good man to know just how bad he is. ~C.S. Lewis.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, one of Pope Francis’ closest advisors, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting two choirboys, becoming the most senior Catholic cleric ever convicted of child sex crimes, it was announced Tuesday.

An Australian jury unanimously found Pell guilty on one count of sexual abuse and four counts of indecent assault against two choir boys at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne in the 1990s.

He was in December found guilty of the sexual assaults, but only on Tuesday was a wide-ranging suppression order thrown out, allowing media to report on the case.


I love people who say, "these things happened a long time ago". Well who knows what we will find out in 20 years after the current wide ranging suppression orders are finally thrown out.

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

What makes you think religious people are moral?

What makes you think they are not moral? And what is your basis for morality?

 

[LittleNipper]

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

The gods never established any traditions. The unknown authors of the various bibles established those.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." This doesn't sound like an unknown author. And there is only ONE Bible. There maybe various translations, but only ONE Bible.

 

[LittleNipper]

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

What makes you think religious people are moral?

Never said they were; however, religious people know their shortcomings.

I wasn't aware you were the spokes-religionist for religious people.

Were you voted in as Head Muckey-Muck in charge of Religious People's Opinions or is your biased opinion just another opinion?

Were you?

 

[LittleNipper]

I "love" people who say that homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, and all other such deviate "lifestyles" are not SINFUL but NORMAL! It would seem that they are not or no one would really care. I'm sure though that there is a growing consensus among "special" groups that such indulgences are merely learning experiences to be enjoyed.... Will we continue down the same ladder? I don't see the bottom yet!

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

And it seems the clergy would be the perfect place for a young closeted gay boy to go if his religion has raised him to believe gay sex is wrong. So they go into the priesthood and find other men just like them

The worst of them are pedophiles.

Most priests are able to suppress their gay urges. Some you find on to catch a predator or in gay chat rooms or gay bars.

Ps. God never visited.

Jesus is GOD in the flesh and an historical absolute.

 

[sealybobo]

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

And it seems the clergy would be the perfect place for a young closeted gay boy to go if his religion has raised him to believe gay sex is wrong. So they go into the priesthood and find other men just like them

The worst of them are pedophiles.

Most priests are able to suppress their gay urges. Some you find on to catch a predator or in gay chat rooms or gay bars.

Ps. God never visited.

Jesus is GOD in the flesh and an historical absolute.

Christianity didn’t arise out of jesus’ followers except for 11 men. They went around the world and told the myth, the legend. The martyr.

All the Jews around him didn’t and still don’t believe he was the son of god why should I buy it? Because I’m not a Jew?

 

[sealybobo]

If it were just the priests getting it on no one would know or care.

So don't lump homosexuality in with fornicating, bestiality or adultry.

Remember Sesame Street?

So can atheists be moral when priests cannot?

Yes. I go up north with my nephews and all their friends. I wouldn’t harm a hair on their heads.

What gets me is the cover ups and how high up this goes.

They say the Vatican is one of the largest gay communities in the world.

I’m ok with two priests f----g. In fact the best jokes start out with so two priests are f----g.

I'm not "Roman" Catholic. And the pope is not "my" father. No one is without sin. I feel that people without a biblical basis for considerations make personal choices (founded on "feelings"), and not spiritual ones... Frankly, there is NOTHING biblical regarding celibacy among Christian nor Jewish clergy. It is a BIG PROBLEM and it now is publicly rising its ugly head! Vain traditions are not a foundation GOD established!

And it seems the clergy would be the perfect place for a young closeted gay boy to go if his religion has raised him to believe gay sex is wrong. So they go into the priesthood and find other men just like them

The worst of them are pedophiles.

Most priests are able to suppress their gay urges. Some you find on to catch a predator or in gay chat rooms or gay bars.

Ps. God never visited.

Jesus is GOD in the flesh and an historical absolute.

Says you and your church.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Jesus is GOD in the flesh and an historical absolute.

Two dubious premises... one infinitely moreso than the other....