Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

[PetriFB]

The doctrine of sinlessness has many variations. Some people teach that when a person is saved, he or she becomes*perfect*and sinless. Others teach that it is possible for believers to achieve a perfect, sinless state where believers no longer consciously commit sin. The advocates of the doctrine of sinlessness argue that because believers have been released from sin, they can no longer commit any sin.

1 John 3:6*Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Here is the*Bible*passage which the advocates of the doctrine of sinlessness use as the basis for arguing that the Bible says that believers cannot commit any sin after they have been saved.

When we*study*this subject by comparing it to what the Bible as a whole says about it, we understand that nobody born of God can sin continously without realising that it is wrong and then stopping doing it.

Galatians 2:
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

1 Peter 2:
1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

The Bible says that hypocrisy is a sin and people should not act and live like hypocrites. Peter and Barnabas also went astray and were hypocrites, which means that 1 John 3:6 does not say that believers can be sinless and that believers never commit sin.

Matthew 5:48*Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Based on the above verse, many people teach that believers can be perfect. When you*study*the context, you will notice that the passage instructs us to love our brethren. Here, it means that believers must try to live their lives through the love of God, and the love of God is perfect.

However, believers do not become perfect in this life, which is proved by 1 Peter 2:1, 2 as well as Paul's teaching where he says that he has not become perfect but is on his way to it:

Philippians 3:12*Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

When we*study*the Word of God in the Bible (Jewish Puclication Society Old Testament), translated by Jews from Hebrew into English, we see that they have translated the word "perfect" as "wholehearted" or another word, but never as "perfect" when it concerns people. When it concerns God, the word "perfect" is used in the translation.

The*word*"tamiym" in Hebrew for "perfect" can be translated in different ways, depending on whom it concerns. People here on earth can never be perfect in this life because their journey here on earth is always imperfect. That is why Apostle Paul taught that he had not become perfect. God is perfect but believers do not become perfect and sinless in this life. The*Bible*as a whole says that no believer can become perfect and sinless in this life.

Some people teach that believers can become perfect so that they never again consciously commit sin. This is a false doctrine, too, because just one wrongful thought of your brethren is a sin and you cannot think wrongful thoughts without being conscious of them. Many advocates of this doctrine defend it fiercely and they are bitter and contemptuous of those who do not believe them. Bitterness and contemptuousness are conscious choices. The list could*continue*forever, but already the things I have listed above prove that no one can live their life without sin, not even so that they do not consciously commit any sin.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm still curious about who the believers are that are teaching the doctrine of perfection. I understand that some people can misunderstand scripture...but where is it taught that we can be perfect?

 

[Chuckt]

People become believers because they realize they have committed sin. So no. Because being a believer presupposes the recognition of ones sins.

When a man begins to exercise faith in Christ, he can overcome his sins through the grace of God. For example, if you struggle with the sin of pornography. You can stop viewing/reading/participating in this sin today. And if you get through a day, you are perfect for that day. if you mess up the next day, you can still try again the next. The more you work at it, the more you are filled with the grace of God and before long you are no longer trapped in bondage to pornography.

Are you perfect then? In regards to that sin yes, But as we gain mastery over ourselves and keep the commandments of God, we begin to see other ways where we have sinned that we may not have been aware of before. We then have the opportunity to seek the grace of God in overcoming that weakness.

When we become believers we learn line upon line, and precept upon precept, grace to grace. If we are on the path of seeking the grace of God, we will recieve it, but don't expect to be perfect in this life. And don't expect to be perfect on your own. Because it's only through the grace of God that we become so.

If you can't look at naked women without lust then the problem is within you, not in the pictures you look at.

And because you think there is something sinful about human sexuality does that make it sinful for those who are not burdened by such shackles of shame?

And who would feel shame about the human condition if not only those who are guilty of sin, Mr. I can be like God, observe no law, and am destined to rule the earth?

Why don't you try to answer your own objections with what you preach?

 

[Chuckt]

I'm still curious about who the believers are that are teaching the doctrine of perfection. I understand that some people can misunderstand scripture...but where is it taught that we can be perfect?

It is really rooted in the insecurity of the make believer.

The second video by Dr. J. Vernon McGee in the first link explains it:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/324833-eternal-security-illustration.html

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

If you have the son, you have life. If you don't have the son, you don't have life.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...can-i-lose-my-salvation-eternal-security.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...curity-is-the-gospel-ralph-yankee-arnold.html

I've been harping on this for a while.

 

[hobelim]

People become believers because they realize they have committed sin. So no. Because being a believer presupposes the recognition of ones sins.

When a man begins to exercise faith in Christ, he can overcome his sins through the grace of God. For example, if you struggle with the sin of pornography. You can stop viewing/reading/participating in this sin today. And if you get through a day, you are perfect for that day. if you mess up the next day, you can still try again the next. The more you work at it, the more you are filled with the grace of God and before long you are no longer trapped in bondage to pornography.

Are you perfect then? In regards to that sin yes, But as we gain mastery over ourselves and keep the commandments of God, we begin to see other ways where we have sinned that we may not have been aware of before. We then have the opportunity to seek the grace of God in overcoming that weakness.

When we become believers we learn line upon line, and precept upon precept, grace to grace. If we are on the path of seeking the grace of God, we will recieve it, but don't expect to be perfect in this life. And don't expect to be perfect on your own. Because it's only through the grace of God that we become so.

If you can't look at naked women without lust then the problem is within you, not in the pictures you look at.

And because you think there is something sinful about human sexuality does that make it sinful for those who are not burdened by such shackles of shame?

And who would feel shame about the human condition if not only those who are guilty of sin, Mr. I can be like God, observe no law, and am destined to rule the earth?

Why don't you try to answer your own objections with what you preach?

LOL, OK.


If it talks like a serpent and crawls like a serpent..........

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

"Can believers live their lives without committing sin?"

No.

and they are continually being forgiven and you are not

 

[hobelim]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

"Can believers live their lives without committing sin?"

No.

and they are continually being forgiven and you are not

LOL.....The fact that someone thinks they can worship false gods, or perjure themselves in the name of God or commit murder in full view of everyone here and not suffer the death promised but instead imagine that they can continually sin and continually be forgiven is evidence that the consequence of of their sin remains and they are not forgiven- except in their deluded imagination that they been abandoned to by God.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

"Can believers live their lives without committing sin?"

No.

and they are continually being forgiven and you are not

LOL.....The fact that someone thinks they can worship false gods, or perjure themselves in the name of God or commit murder in full view of everyone here and not suffer the death promised but instead imagine that they can continually sin and continually be forgiven is evidence that the consequence of of their sin remains and they are not forgiven- except in their deluded imagination that they been abandoned to by God.

Dante doesn't need your stupid frigging make believe god to promise death...reality promises that.

get a grip

Sin and god are human constructs and you are here for a very short time. Try and enjoy what life you have left here because believe me...there is nothing else

 

[Chuckt]

"Can believers live their lives without committing sin?"

No.

and they are continually being forgiven and you are not

LOL.....The fact that someone thinks they can worship false gods, or perjure themselves in the name of God or commit murder in full view of everyone here and not suffer the death promised but instead imagine that they can continually sin and continually be forgiven is evidence that the consequence of of their sin remains and they are not forgiven- except in their deluded imagination that they been abandoned to by God.

Dante doesn't need your stupid frigging make believe god to promise death...reality promises that.

get a grip

Sin and god are human constructs and you are here for a very short time. Try and enjoy what life you have left here because believe me...there is nothing else

Dante,

I don't take hobelim as a believer because I've watched his/her posts over time. I take him as someone who is just messing with us and giving us a hard time.

Chuck

 

[Chuckt]

John 15:2. Jesus' illustration of the vine and branches is an illustration of those who think they are Christians and those who are Christians.



I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit . . . I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (NASB) John 15:1-2, 5-6

The key to unlocking this passage is to note that in verse two Jesus refers to those who are "in Me," but in the remaining verses He talks about those who "abide in Me and I in them" (V. 4, 5, and 7). Later in verses 5 and 6 Jesus says that those who are in Him "bear much fruit for apart from Me you can do nothing." Jesus actually explains "in Me." Jesus says that those who "abide in Me" will produce fruit. So if someone does not produce fruit, they were never abiding in Him. Jesus is being careful with His words. "Abiding" is the issue. Those who are "in Me" are not necessarily Christians. Judas was in Jesus, but he did not abide because he did not produce fruit. He was eventually cut off.
Romans 11:20-22. The Romans 11:20-22 passage is talking about the nation of Israel and Gentiles. You may want to review an explanation given of Romans 11:17. This section in Romans is not dealing with individuals but with the high position given to Gentiles in the church at this point in time. Paul is talking about the mystery of the church.


For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in . . . (NASB) Romans 11:25

2 Peter 2:20-22. The most difficult passage to understand is this one. The key to understanding it is found in the verses before it or in the context. Chapter two is talking about false prophets.


But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. (NASB) 2 Peter 2:1

Later in verse 17 the Holy Spirit says they are like "springs without water" and in verse 19 "slaves of corruption." They are not Christians. These men have come into the church and gained a position of influence and later started teaching error. Jude 4 has some words for these men and women.


For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NASB) Jude 4

The teachers knew the way of truth and "cleaned up" their life. Eternally they "escaped the defilements." Judas looked good to the other disciples. During the last supper when Jesus said one of them would betray Him, they were surprised and started asking, "Who?" Yet, Judas was never real. He was stealing their money all along (John 12:6; 13:29). Judas looked good to everyone. These prophets did too.


For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. (NASB) 2 Peter 2:20-21

They knew the way, but they turned away. They were like the seed which fell fell beside the road, on rocky soil and beside the thorns. The heard but did not understand. They exploited the church but never believed in Jesus.

Conclusion:Is salvation by faith or works? If my works were never good enough to save me (Romans 3:10-12) why should they have any efficacy - spiritual benefit - to keep me saved? Is salvation by works or faith? Yes, my works are the result of being saved because the Holy Spirit produces them in me, but they do not save me. Why should God "unsave" me because of my works after He had already saved me when I was only doing bad works? I was a sinner and not an enemy (Rom. 5:10). Praise God that He saved me and forgave me all of my sins - even the ones I will commit in the future. Praise the Lord, there are no sins that He holds against me now to deny me eternal salvation (Heb. 9:28, 10:10).

There are many scriptures that seem to contradict eternal security.

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[PetriFB]

1 John 1:
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no [ekhomen] sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The verses above are intended for those who are already saved. Verse 8 includes the Greek word "ekhomen" which is in the active present indicative form, which means that the sin had been committed now, in this moment, which was an occurred fact.

Many people argue that it was not the present, but sin committed in the past when the person was not yet saved. The testimony written in the Bible disproves this because it was about believers who had been saved and had went astray to commit sin, which is why they were advised to confess their sins and to stop doing them so that the sins would be forgiven.

According to the Bible, it is not possible for believers to live totally without sin. This passage teaches us that if believers deny that they have sinned, they make God a liar and the Word of God is not in them because no one becomes totally sinless in this life. The Word of God clearly teaches this. Also, if a believer denies that they have sinned and they believe they are sinless, the Word of God is not in them and they are living a lie.

This teaching is very important because the Bible says that a person, who believes that they are sinless, is living a lie, and does not have the Word of God. Many believers say that we should only take that what is good and not care about that what is wrong. It is true that no one is perfect and that we all are mistaken in regard to something. When someone claims that he or she is sinless, the Bible says that he or she is living a lie and does not have the Word of God. This means that we cannot receive anything from him who is living a lie and who does not have the Word of God. That is why you should avoid such doctrines and people, and you should not listen to their teachings or be in contact with them.

God has a serious, unsympathetic approach to people who imagine that they are sinless. That is why He says that such a person does not have His Word. This kind of teaching also mocks the atonement of the Lord Jesus because the atonement not only atones sins which we committed when we were not yet saved, but also the sins which we commit as believers.

Because the Bible teaches that believers cannot live a sinless life here on earth, those living under the misconception of a "sinless" state mock the atoning blood of the Lord Jesus because they do not bring their sin of being proud (sinlessness) and other sins of their to be cleaned by the blood of the Lord Jesus Messiah. Therefore, they are living a lie and the Word of God is not in them, and that is why we must not listen to the teachings of such people, but we should advise them to stop committing their sin of being proud.

The Bible as a whole says that the Bible does not teach that it is possible to reach a state of sinlessness. That is why the Bible teaches us to grow in faith because a person who is growing has not reached perfectness (sinlessness) and is growing towards it, but will not reach it in this life.

The teaching of the congregation says that we, believers, must avoid sin and try to win the temptations of sin and to stop committing sin if someone has gone astray to commit sin or to live in sin. It is the right thing to do to try to avoid sin, but deception sets in when someone teaches that it is possible to reach a sinless state or that believers are sinless. We can live free from sin up to the point where God has grown us to and up to the point where we have agreed to grow to, but we will never be totally sinless.

I understand that many people want to believe in a pure faith in the Lord Jesus Messiah, but our desire and faith should adhere to the Bible, or else we lose our way and go astray.

It is correct to teach and encourage believers to abandon sins and to learn to avoid the temptations of sin. The teaching becomes false when people teach that you can reach a sinless state, or become sinless and be sinless. The Bible teaches us that faith is growth to becoming similar to the image of God. This means that we cannot become perfect for as long as we live here on earth, growing in faith. That is why Paul taught that he has not become perfect but is on his way toward it, that is, is growing toward it.

The doctrine of sinlessness is non-Biblical. It opens doors for demonic activity as people try to find glory of their own and are proud because according to the Bible as a whole, it is not possible for believers to live in this world without sinning or living a totally sinless life. The Word of Faith movement (many people, not all) has forgotten Biblical truth, which is why satanic spirits have an impact there through different manifestations, such as that sick people are healed and powerful deeds take place, but they are performed by the enemy's demons.

When people imagine that believers can be sinless, they are proud, and, according to the Bible, they are living a lie and do not have the Word of God in them. Among the Word of Faith movement (not all), there is a doctrine which argues that people are sinless. This teaching and "anointment" is based on demonic spirits because the Bible says that this kind of person does not have the Word of God because they are living a lie.

The enemy has several ways of deceiving people. Teachings and things which are totally contrary to what the Bible teaches, and deception where the topics may be correct, but the power originates from elsewhere, building on false, harmful teachings and the pride of people. Through all this, demons are fueled to do deeds through false power. The doctrine of sinlessness is a fuel which opens the door to demons.

However, many believers have not understood the gift of faith and what being a disciple of the Lord Jesus Messiah means. Many do not understand that they are righteous by the grace of God, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, they have the opportunity to be released from sins.

Many believers focus too much on themselves and their own flesh, and because of this, they bear guilt and shame in their hearts. They focus on their own flesh because they are incapable of living a victorious life in faith and in the power of the Holy Spirit, where sins are broken from their heart and they have the ability to say "no" to the temptations of sin.

Some believers caress their sins in their hearts, which is why they cannot experience the victory over the sins through the power of the Holy Spirit. When you understand that you need to stop committing sin and that you have the opportunity to say "no" to sin through the power of the Holy Spirit, you will learn to say "no" to sin by the grace and power of God.

God has promised to release us from sin and that He certainly does that when we grow in faith, love God and follow truth, and want to grow in knowing God and in doing the will of God.

The healthy, Biblical teaching is that we should avoid sin and to be ready to die (death of the flesh) from sin through the power of the Holy Spirit. However, we must keep in mind that we will not become sinless in this life. However, we must not support sin in any way, but we must grow in faith every day and, with the help of the power of the Holy Spirit, to block and say "no" to the temptations of sin according to the point we have grown to in our faith.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

Amazing that you arrive beginning with such topics, PetriFB. In that you are brand new and know no one here. If you were not claiming to be brand new here I would say someone else asked you to come over to finish what they started? I do not see any evidence that you will succeed in denying the teachings of Christ any more than they have been able to.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No.

There is a thing called the sin of ignorance and sin is built in.

Sinning in ignorance is why there is no such thing as sinless perfection because one may indeed sin in ignorance. Yet the sins listed in Revelation 21 are sins of open rebellion - not - oh! I didn't realize I had commited a sin! Jesus said if you had not known it was sin - it would not be counted against you - on the matter of deliberate sinning....

It is written:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains, but only a a fearful expectation of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - Hebrews 10:26 <---New Testament Teaching

Who is the enemy of God? The one who is at enmity with God. Who is at enmity with God? Those who love the world and the things of this world such as the riches and pleasures the wide road church indulges itself in while turning a blind eye to the persecuted church in 10/40 window and the example of Christ set before us of their godly lives.

If you do not obey Jesus why say you are his follower? It is yet another lie. The word of God in the new testament is IF we sin we can go to the LORD in repentance and he will forgive us. IF not WHEN.

I remember giving you the example of the worship leader living in fornication with a woman he was not married to - living under the same roof with her and the congregation knew about it - you said because he was a born again Christian he would still go to heaven if he died. He is not ignorant of the Word of God as he was told the Word of God and like you he even teaches it ( although it is not the written word of God but a false gospel ) and guess what? God does not diffentiate between a believer who lives in sin and an unbeliever who lives in sin.. both shall end up eternally separated from God. Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Consider Hebrews 12: 4
Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to point of shedding your blood.

You see Jesus endured opposition from sinful men. Not from his own followers, Chuck. ( Judas was a son of perdition - he served mammon - not God ) Sinful men who rejected his command to be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. To be ye holy for I am holy - this is the teachings of Jesus...

You are on the milk of the word still and have yet to understand the meat of the word. Astonishing for one who claims to be a scholar of the word - I do not believe you have attained any such title - still examine the scriptures from the book of Hebrews. Notice he puts coming out of sin as one of the "elementary teachings".. yet you still do not understand this.. why?

It is written:

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant is not acquainted with the teachings on righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. - Hebrews 5: 13, 14

Stop there. The reason I was able to identify your teachings early on as false was due to my being trained to distinguish good from evil. You and your alter personality here are attempting to muddy the waters by claiming that the doctrine of holiness, obedience, repentance, is legalism, Judaism, the Law, Works based salvation. Your claims are false and they fall completely apart under the examination of scripture. The Word of God is the final authority, not your "opinon" of the word of God. God has the final word. Not man. ( who is always looking for an easy out that accomodates his flesh )

Hear the words of the apostles on this matter:

It is written:

Therefore let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death.............

- Hebrews 6: 1

And again it is written:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared of the Holy Spirit, who have tasted of the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifiying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. - Hebrews 6: 4 - 6

Not everyone who says Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of Heaven. Only those who do the will of the Father. It is written.

Jesus said the path was narrow and few would ever find it. By leading others to believe they can openly sin their way to heaven, that there is no longer any need to repent of their sins, that there is no longer any need to fear the loss of their salvation is basically telling the christian that the Word of God is no longer true and they should believe you instead. The unfortunate truth is, many will. Jesus said in Matthew 24: 4 that false prophets / teachers would come and many would be deceived. Still it is a deep grief whenever I see it. Those of you who think you can keep your sins and go to heaven have insulted the Spirit of Grace. The bible warns not to do this in Hebrews 10: 29. - Jeri

 

[hobelim]

"Can believers live their lives without committing sin?"

No.

and they are continually being forgiven and you are not

LOL.....The fact that someone thinks they can worship false gods, or perjure themselves in the name of God or commit murder in full view of everyone here and not suffer the death promised but instead imagine that they can continually sin and continually be forgiven is evidence that the consequence of of their sin remains and they are not forgiven- except in their deluded imagination that they been abandoned to by God.

Dante doesn't need your stupid frigging make believe god to promise death...reality promises that.

get a grip

The subject of the death that results in setting aside the commands of God, according to scripture, whether he exists or not, and whether he is a human construct or not, is not about biological death.


The inability to participate in life without a perverse sense of shame and the inability to accept well known truths about reality is the type of death promised for lets say, believing in a make believe triune god who created people sexual beings foundational to their very existence and then condemned their sexuality as sinful.

How can anyone enjoy life in its abundance in the only world they have ever known while wasting time in complete denial and pretense denouncing everything good about life as sinful hoping for some unknown world that they have no evidence even exists?

That's not living is it?

get a grip yourself.

 

[hobelim]

No.

There is a thing called the sin of ignorance and sin is built in.

Sinning in ignorance is why there is no such thing as sinless perfection because one may indeed sin in ignorance. Yet the sins listed in Revelation 21 are sins of open rebellion - not - oh! I didn't realize I had commited a sin! Jesus said if you had not known it was sin - it would not be counted against you - on the matter of deliberate sinning....

It is written:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains, but only a a fearful expectation of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - Hebrews 10:26

Is that's why so may people who profess a belief in a make believe triune god are so frigging preoccupied with hell and incapable of accepting correction?

 

[hobelim]

LOL.....The fact that someone thinks they can worship false gods, or perjure themselves in the name of God or commit murder in full view of everyone here and not suffer the death promised but instead imagine that they can continually sin and continually be forgiven is evidence that the consequence of of their sin remains and they are not forgiven- except in their deluded imagination that they been abandoned to by God.

Dante doesn't need your stupid frigging make believe god to promise death...reality promises that.

get a grip

Sin and god are human constructs and you are here for a very short time. Try and enjoy what life you have left here because believe me...there is nothing else

Dante,

I don't take hobelim as a believer because I've watched his/her posts over time. I take him as someone who is just messing with us and giving us a hard time.

Chuck

LOL.... Dante is obviously not one of your 'us' which begs the question, HOW MANY OF YOU ARE THERE?

 

[Stashman]

When You become a Christian and ask God to forgive you of your sins, He not only forgives you the sins you have committed but also the ones you will commit in the future. That does not mean that once you are saved you have free reign to commit sin because you are saved. God knows that we are of the flesh, and thereby knows we will commit sin as long as we are in the flesh. When we sin against God we must continue to ask forgiveness for those sins even after being saved.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

So a newborn baby is not without sin? A toddler who cannot comprehend God and cannot ask for forgiveness and salvation is going to Hell?

Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven would be made up of such.. little children.. There is an age of accountability - only God knows when one has become of that age of being accountable but the truth is had you not known the truth you would not be found guilty. It is because people have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and rejected it that they shall be sent to hell. Not because they didn't know any better, Winter Born. God is just. Never doubt it. I've heard of stories such as where a man was stung by five boxer jelly fish, was dying, saw the LORD - was shown the truth and accepted Him right then and there - he could have gone on to heaven but only chose to come back because his mother who had prayed for him would not have known of his decision to accept Christ. So today he preaches the gospel and tells others of how God spared his life and he survived something he should not have. God is merciful. If it were not so you would not still be here. Consider that His Grace. Not a license to continue in sin but to have time to repent and turn from it.

 

[hobelim]

When You become a Christian and ask God to forgive you of your sins, He not only forgives you the sins you have committed but also the ones you will commit in the future. That does not mean that once you are saved you have free reign to commit sin because you are saved. God knows that we are of the flesh, and thereby knows we will commit sin as long as we are in the flesh. When we sin against God we must continue to ask forgiveness for those sins even after being saved.

if a person sins after receiving knowledge of the truth how could they possibly have been saved?

BTW is this God you ask forgiveness from triune in nature or did he ever appear in human form and turn himself into a snack food?

If a person prays to a false image of God will they ever be forgiven by he who truly is God for anything less unless they repent of that first?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No.

There is a thing called the sin of ignorance and sin is built in.

Sinning in ignorance is why there is no such thing as sinless perfection because one may indeed sin in ignorance. Yet the sins listed in Revelation 21 are sins of open rebellion - not - oh! I didn't realize I had commited a sin! Jesus said if you had not known it was sin - it would not be counted against you - on the matter of deliberate sinning....

It is written:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains, but only a a fearful expectation of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - Hebrews 10:26

Is that's why so may people who profess a belief in a make believe triune god are so frigging preoccupied with hell and incapable of accepting correction?

I have no clue, Hobelim, perhaps you should ask yourself that question. I have accepted correction by the Word of God and my attention is on the Kingdom of Heaven. That is what God tells me to do. Seek the Kingdom of heaven First. His Kingdom Comes First. Always. I have one fight to fight. The fight for defending the faith - preaching Jesus Christ, Christ crucified, Hobelim, whereas your fight appears to be within your own soul / conscience. What a nightmare that must be for you. To decide whether you should believe on Christ as Yeshua Ha'Maschiah or continue to prefer the praises of men and acceptance in your synagogue... ( as some did - John 12: 42 ) I keep you in my prayers. I know God loves you. I believe when you accept that the truth that Sh'ma Y'Israel, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Echod - Hear O' Israel, the Lord our God, the LORD is One - is the exact same in God the Father, God the Word, God the Spirit, 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 you will recognize that you without Christ you are incomplete. We were made in the image of God - it is written - Genesis 1: 26 Let US make man in OUR image. We are body, soul and spirit. We are made in the image of God, not in the image of an angel. Amen? Amen. - Jeri p.s. are you a triune being, Hobelim? According the Word of God, yes. You are. So is your Creator.