Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

[Book of Jeremiah]

Hobelim, I disagree with Chuck on the matter of your not believing in G-d. I find it impossible that you could know this much about the LORD and not believe in Him. You may not accept that Jesus is Yeshua Ha'Maschiah and truthfully that is not my job to convince you - as it would be utterly impossible for one human to convince another of such a truth. Yet there is no way you could convince me that you do not believe in G-d and even in your heart Fear Him and reverence His Holiness. I simply cannot buy into such an idea as that you do not love G-d. You love G-d far more than you let on. Either that or you Love G-d and don't know it yet. I am not sure I only know you that you do. - Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

When You become a Christian and ask God to forgive you of your sins, He not only forgives you the sins you have committed but also the ones you will commit in the future. That does not mean that once you are saved you have free reign to commit sin because you are saved. God knows that we are of the flesh, and thereby knows we will commit sin as long as we are in the flesh. When we sin against God we must continue to ask forgiveness for those sins even after being saved.

if a person sins after receiving knowledge of the truth how could they possibly have been saved?

The first three verses talk about "us":

Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The next couple of verses talk about "them". It is talking about the Jewish or Hebrew believers who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. It is not talking about us because if you study the Bible there are words "turn" and "return" because there are exortations to come back to God like the parable of the prodigal son who returned. John tells us in 1 John 1:8-9 that if any man sins that and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And Hebrews 4:15 says "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. " so the Bible has opportunities for forgiveness, healing, restoration and the opportunity to turn back to God. These verses can't be saying that if we fall away then it is over. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

We aren't part of this. There are five participles here:
for those who were once enlightened
have tasted of the heavenly gift
tasted the good word of God
and have fallen away (the word "if" here can mean "and" as in "and have fallen away")

If doesn't say,"if they shall fall away". The word "If" can mean "and" and I looked it up.

Hebrews 6:9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

As believers, we have gone on in the basic things. We know the truth in regards to Christ.

It is written to a group of Jewish believers that came to a knowledge of the truth. They tasted of the heavenly gift. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. They had fallen away. They tasted and had fallen away. It is impossible to renew them again to repentance.

They joined the ranks of those of Pontius Pilate and the High Priest before the and those before the crucifixion. If you've come into that much light and that much reality and then you fall away and go back to the Levitical system, you're numbered among those who crucified the son of God because you're saying He's not the son of God. What would there be to go back to?

We've moved onto the truth.

-My notes from Pastor Joe's MP3 online.

There are four classes if conditional clauses:

1. 1st class conditional clause is the condition of fact. May be translated "since"
2. 2nd class conditional clause is a condition contrary to fact.
3. 3rd class conditional clause is a condition of high probability
4. 4th class conditional clause is a condition of low probability

The Greek ei with the indicative denotes actual rather than potential condition, and in some versions is translated "since," e.g., Col 3:1, NIV.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

That would depend on the definitions of 'believer' and of 'sin'.


I have beliefs, one of which is that the God of Abraham, as described in the Torah, New Testament and Koran, is fictitious, and I sleep GREAT every night. No regrets at all...


Based on my personal qualifications on the subject, I guess you COULD call me a sinless believer!

​

 

[Chuckt]

Sinless Perfection - I John 3:9

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”-I John 3:9

“Note: In 1 John 3:4, 8, 9, the KJV wrongly has ‘commit’ (an impossible meaning in v. ; the RV rightly has ‘doeth,’ i.e., of a continuous habit, equivalent to prasso, ‘to practice.’ The committal of an act is not in view in that passage.”
P.113, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words

“First John 3:9 is in the present continuous tense and should be translated ‘Whoever is born of God does not continually practice sin.”-Dr. Norman Geisler, p.539 “When Critics Ask”

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”-1 John 1:8

1 John 1:8 basically indicates that the believer has sin because if you deny it then the truth isn't in you.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A newborn is innocent, but has a corrupt nature.

Infants who die are gathered to God.

Got link?

I'll even take one from The Torah or The New Testament on this one.

 

[koshergrl]

Got a link to what? Them acutally appearing in the arms of Christ?

Give me a break. I don't provide links to anti-Christian pieces of shit who troll the religion forums.

 

[TooTall]

Time and time again, believers start discussing and teaching the doctrine that believers can be perfect and live a life without sin here on earth. That doctrine is a very evil and dangerous false doctrine. Please read this text with prayer and test it by the Word of God.

The whole article is on my site: Can believers live their lives without committing sin?

I don't believe I have ever heard that said. We are all sinners, and a rather famous man once said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Nobody came forward.

 

[koshergrl]

The verses are in the text:

"While infants and children have neither sensed their personal sin and need for salvation nor placed their faith in Christ, Scripture teaches that condemnation is based on the clear rejection of God's revelation--whether general or specific--not simple ignorance of it (Luke 10:16; John 12:48; 1 Thess. 4:8).
Can we definitely say that the unborn and young children have comprehended the truth displayed by God's general revelation that renders them "without excuse" (Rom. 1:18-20)? They will be judged according to the light they received. Scripture is clear that children and the unborn have original sin--including both the propensity to sin as well as the inherent guilt of original sin. But could it be that somehow Christ's atonement did pay for the guilt for these helpless ones throughout all time? Yes, and therefore it is a credible assumption that a child who dies at an age too young to have made a conscious, willful rejection of Jesus Christ will be taken to be with the Lord."
Do babies and others incapable of professing faith in Christ automatically go to heaven?

As with all things of faith, obviously I cannot and will not prove that babies go to heaven. I believe it to be true based on the collective Word, and as far as I know, so do all biblical scholars.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Wrong again. The book of Hebrews was not written to Jews following Judaism but to the Jews who had believed on Christ as their Savior. He was speaking to the believers in that teaching. Not those who had not believed on Christ. How do we know this? By this scripture right here......

It is written:

How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God, underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctifies him, and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace? - Hebrews 10: 29


You see, this is why Jesus said the tax collector and the prostitutes are going to enter heaven before you do. Because you have the truth here in front of you - yet you reject the truth - and not only do you reject the truth but you tempt others to and try to turn them into twice the son of hell you are. Am I speaking the truth here? Yes, I am. Therefore, I need not apologise for speaking the truth.

You say that a woman cannot correct you because according to your interpretation of scripture a woman cannot teach the word of God in the church or outside of the church.. yet you attend a church that has women Sunday school teachers who have both boys and girls in their classrooms. Straight through to adult classes yet still you shall insist on straining this gnat in order to swallow your camel of a lie whole.

Now on the matter of my being a woman while pointing out you are promoting false teaching here and re - inventing the Word of God to mean something it was never meant to say....... I believe anyone who reads the bible and prayerfully asks the Holy Spirit to teach them will receive the truth. But listening to you, Chuck, would be a guarantee not to get it in my opinion.

Furthermore, on the matter of the lost I find Christ most merciful. Many have sinned in ignorance - not even having an ounce of the truth those within the walls of the churches have received and in that I believe those shall be the laborers that come in for the last hour to work in the harvest while those who are now promoting false teachings will be part of the great falling away which is yet to come. They are surely the part of the church that falls away described in Matthew 24.

I see Gods' plan in this because no man gets the credit for Gods work. Only God. He alone deserves the glory for his own work. What should be the attitude of a servant anyhow? We are only unprofitable servants doing what we were called to do. So how do we reconcile these Dr. Geislers and Dr. PetriFB this and Dr. Scholar that??? WHO CARES???!! GIVE ME JESUS!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Got a link to what? Them acutally appearing in the arms of Christ?

Give me a break. I don't provide links to anti-Christian pieces of shit who troll the religion forums.

KG, Joe is the one Jesus came for. If Joe is not who we are here for then who are we here for? Jesus loves Joe. So do I. - Jeri

 

[koshergrl]

I know you do. I love his soul, I hate his trolling, anti-Christian garbage.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you can't look at naked women without lust then the problem is within you, not in the pictures you look at.

Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

If an American Christian who masturbates gets a hold of a skill-saw when he's feeling particularly guilty, should Social Security be obligated to pay his disability claim?

John Chapter 8
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

If Believers who seek The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, New Testament and Koran through Jesus of Nazareth could lead sinless lives, the death of their God on a cross while dwelling in the flesh of a man would be moot.

Just sayin'.

 

[koshergrl]

Whatever, loon.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Got a link to what? Them acutally appearing in the arms of Christ?

A link to actual proof would be awesome, but I'll take a link to one of the Ancient Stories, chapter and verse, that states plainly that children who die get a free pass regardless of beliefs and circumstances.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Give me a break. I don't provide links to anti-Christian pieces of shit who troll the religion forums.

Anti-Christian piece of shit, eh? I can take it if it makes you feel better...

I wonder what your God thinks of your hatred?

 

[Chuckt]

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Does Ephesians 4:13 really mean perfect?

Question: "Is entire sanctification / sinless perfection possible in this life?"

Answer: Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14-24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that sometimes causes confusion is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the word perfect should be translated as “mature” or “full-grown,” not “perfect,” in the sense of having no sin.

As human beings we are bound under the curse of Adam in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11-13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

Is entire sanctification / sinless perfection possible in this life?

 

[Chuckt]

Wrong again. The book of Hebrews was not written to Jews following Judaism but to the Jews who had believed on Christ as their Savior. He was speaking to the believers in that teaching. Not those who had not believed on Christ. How do we know this? By this scripture right here......

It is written:

How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God, underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctifies him, and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace? - Hebrews 10: 29

You are off the passage and out of context.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Scriptures about children going to heaven:

It is written:

And he said: I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
- Matthew 18: 3

It is written:

Then the little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them , But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. Jesus said, Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. When he had placed his hands on them he went on from there.
- Matthew 19: 13, 14


It is written:

People also were bringing their babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like this little child will never enter in. - Luke 18: 15, 16, 17

It is written:

People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. - Mark 10: 13 14


And finally it is written:

Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off - for all whom the Lord our God will call.

* My own comment

Oh, there is that word Repent....if Peter had lived today he would be accused of being a legalist.

Let me tell a painful story the LORD just reminded me of concerning bringing our children to Jesus. I was newly saved as a young single mother, my son was just turning five years old at the time - he was in the little Sunday school class and I was in church when the Pastor said it was the day set aside that the parents would dedicate their children to God! He said, if you would like to dedicate your baby to God please go to the childrens ministry and get them and bring them to the altar. I went to get my young son and when I brought him to the altar I noticed that all these parents had their little infants. Now I was a brand new christian - saved out of the world - my son did not have that opportunity to be dedicated to Christ as an infant as these other babies did and I found nothing wrong with my having desired to dedicate my son at age 5. Yet people laughed at me - I could feel the scorn - quiet murmurings behind me..... perhaps the misplaced embarrassment they felt for me - yet I felt no shame in doing this. Needless to say, it did deeply hurt me and I wept over it none the less.

Years later, the Lord confirmed to my heart I had done the right thing in bringing my young child to the altar and that he had indeed accepted my son as much as he had received Hannah's son,Samuel, when she promised to dedicate him to the Lord. Jesus has always looked after my son and protected him. It is a very sad truth that most of the deep wounds I have received after accepting Christ are from a blind, carnal church that envied what I have yet not enough to pay the price for it themselves.

- Jeri

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not exactly a specific free pass with an age limit, but I really appreciate the effort and the read.

Shame the Devil and tell the truth, I do LIKE the ancient stories... they're always an interesting read.

 

[koshergrl]

Give me a break. I don't provide links to anti-Christian pieces of shit who troll the religion forums.

Anti-Christian piece of shit, eh? I can take it if it makes you feel better...

I wonder what your God thinks of your hatred?

That's not hatred, that's just the truth. You troll the religion forum, you're a mod..that makes you an anti-Christian piece of shit. I guess I could call you something else..but it wouldn't be as accurate.