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WASHINGTON Speaker John A. Boehner has privately told Republican lawmakers anxious about fallout from the government shutdown that he would not allow a potentially more crippling federal default as the atmosphere on Capitol Hill turned increasingly tense on Thursday.
Mr. Boehners comments, recounted by multiple lawmakers, that he would use a combination of Republican and Democratic votes to increase the federal debt limit if necessary appeared aimed at reassuring his colleagues and nervous financial markets that he did not intend to let the economic crisis spiral further out of control.
They came even though he has so far refused to allow a vote on a Senate budget measure to end the shutdown that many believe could pass with bipartisan backing. They also reflect Mr. Boehners view that a default would have widespread and long-term economic consequences while the shutdown, though disruptive, had more limited impact.
With the mood in Congress already unsettled by the bitter sparring over the fiscal standoff, the Capitol was shaken anew Thursday afternoon when a high-speed chase beginning near the White House ended near the Senate office complex with Capitol Police shooting the driver to death.
Maybe! I asked Boehner's spokesman, Michael Steel, about the report. “Speaker Boehner has always said that the United States will not default on its debt, but if we're going to raise the debt limit, we need to deal with the drivers of our debt and deficits," he e-mailed. "That’s why we need a bill with cuts and reforms to get our economy moving again."
That's what they call a non-denial denial. And it speaks to a deep problem Boehner's team has never quite figured out how to resolve. On the one hand, Boehner has always said he won't allow the United States to default. On the other hand, he's also always said that he won't pass a clean debt-ceiling bill.
Imagine a bank robber who swears no hostages will be harmed under any circumstances but also says no one gets out alive if his demands aren't met. That's more or less Boehner's position.
One way Boehner's position gets squared is the addition of President Obama. In a scenario where things go badly Boehner will continue saying that he will not let the country default. He'll just also say that the president is letting the country default by refusing Boehner's entirely reasonable request to sit down and negotiate.
Republicans suggest — again, without saying so outright — that the debt limit gives them leverage because their refusal to raise it threatens a level of harm to the country that Dems will not be able to accept. They suggest (with varying degrees of candor) that because of this, Dems will make unilateral concessions to them that otherwise they wouldn’t have to make. (Remember: In agreeing to raise the debt ceiling — and enabling the U.S. to pay debts already incurred – Republicans would not be conceding anything; they agree it must happen to preserve the country’s full faith and credit.)
By contrast, Democrats say the debt limit gives them leverage in the sense that it will mean Republicans will ultimately have to drop their demand for unilateral Dem concessions. Because Republicans ultimately will not allow widespread harm to the country, goes this reasoning, they will in the end have no choice but to stop asking for a reward in exchange for averting it. Get the difference? One side is dangling the threat of widespread economic harm (again, without clarifying whether they’re actually willing to let it happen) to extract concessions from the other. The other side is evoking that awful prospect in order to rebuff efforts to use it to extract concessions from them.
I’m hardly the first to point out this basic imbalance. Jonathan Chait, Steve Benen, Brian Beutler, James Fallows, and others have all done so at length. And yet, no matter how many times it is outlined, Republicans and their sympathizers, and even some neutral commentators, refuse to acknowledge the basic dimensions of the situation. In the end, the only way to clarify it adequately may be for Dems to simply refuse to give in, no matter what the consequences.
That’s everything in a nutshell right there. Many House Republicans now demanding Boehner exercise maximum tactics to block Obamacare – such as Farenthold – were elected in the Tea Party wave of 2010. Their formative legislative experiences included the heady debt ceiling showdown of 2011, in which Obama — badly weakened by the 2010 election results, and fully convinced Republicans would allow default, because an economic meltdown would ensure his 2012 defeat — bowed to the leverage the default threat gave them, resulting in the terrible 2011 austerity deal that still haunts us today.
But all those conditions are no longer operative. Obama won reelection decisively, and now it’s House Republicans who stand to lose the most politically from default and economic havoc. All indications are that Obama now believes he made a major mistake in 2011 and is determined not to repeat it. Indeed, now the incentives run strongly against legitimizing use of the debt ceiling as a tactic to extract concessions.
What’s particularly worrisome is that many House Republicans don’t seem to understand or accept any of this. Stuck in 2011, they continue to proceed from the premise that agreeing to fund the government at sequester levels, or raising the debt ceiling, represent leverage points for which they should be rewarded by concessions in return. It’s true Obama legitimized this idea in 2011. But today’s Tea Partyers don’t seem capable of understanding that this leverage was artificial, rather than an enduring fact – the product of circumstances that have dramatically shifted — and that Democrats are determined not reproduce those circumstances for them.
And so, when these lawmakers insist they must not “surrender” by funding government or raising the debt ceiling without unwinding Obamacare, what they really mean is that letting go of the very idea that those things give them leverage is itself surrender. One House conservative put it perfectly: “We’re not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.” Really? Why?
Of course, the House GOP leadership could always decide to propose a "clean" continuing resolution that doesn't touch Obamacare, a move that insiders estimate would win the support of perhaps 175 of the House's 232 Republicans. With Democratic support, a clean measure would win overwhelming passage. But the leadership is apparently dead set against that, at least as the shutdown begins Day Three.
So what now? House Speaker John Boehner and leading Republicans like Paul Ryan and Dave Camp are apparently reviving the old goal of a "grand bargain" -- a budget deal that would include entitlement reforms, tax reform, and a new budget agreement, while also restoring government spending and raising the debt ceiling. The idea is that with the debt ceiling deadline coming up on Oct. 17, Republicans and Democrats could fix all, or at least many, of their problems in one fell swoop.
Such "grand bargain" attempts have failed in the past, and there is little reason to believe one will succeed now. And not just because Obama and Democrats are intransigent, which they are. The fact is, this is Oct. 3, meaning there are just two weeks before the nation hits the debt ceiling. Could Republicans get even their end of a "grand bargain" together in time? "Look at tax reform," said the GOP strategist. "If you took Democrats out of the mix entirely, I don't think Republicans could come up with a tax reform package by Oct. 17. There is a huge range of opinion on what direction to take." The first "grand bargain" Republicans would have to reach would be among themselves.
Nevertheless, some Republicans are grasping at the idea that a "grand bargain" will somehow solve their problems. Meanwhile the shutdown goes on. Before October began, Republicans privately expressed the opinion that a shutdown of two or three days would probably be politically acceptable; after that, they said, the repercussions could be quite serious and entirely unpredictable. Now, some Republicans are talking about a shutdown that drags on while both sides work on a "grand bargain." It has become an attractive course mostly because GOP leadership, having rejected the option of passing a clean continuing resolution, simply doesn't have any other ideas on how to get out of the current mess.
Not any farther then you can through himBecause I would like to be tentatively optimistic. On the other hand, he seems to frequently confuse his ass with a hole in the ground.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/04/us/politics/debt-limit-impasse.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON Speaker John A. Boehner has privately told Republican lawmakers anxious about fallout from the government shutdown that he would not allow a potentially more crippling federal default as the atmosphere on Capitol Hill turned increasingly tense on Thursday.
Mr. Boehners comments, recounted by multiple lawmakers, that he would use a combination of Republican and Democratic votes to increase the federal debt limit if necessary appeared aimed at reassuring his colleagues and nervous financial markets that he did not intend to let the economic crisis spiral further out of control.
They came even though he has so far refused to allow a vote on a Senate budget measure to end the shutdown that many believe could pass with bipartisan backing. They also reflect Mr. Boehners view that a default would have widespread and long-term economic consequences while the shutdown, though disruptive, had more limited impact.
With the mood in Congress already unsettled by the bitter sparring over the fiscal standoff, the Capitol was shaken anew Thursday afternoon when a high-speed chase beginning near the White House ended near the Senate office complex with Capitol Police shooting the driver to death.
Or will he buckle to the TPM again.
To say the least, this question should apply to both sides. You have Boehner on one side, Reid and Obama on the other. One side wants to negotiate, while the other would rather the shutdown continue, doing further damage to it.
Funny, Republicans were the ones being accused of taking the government hostage, but it seems as if the Democrats are the ones holding the gun to it's head.
The debt limit is going to be raised, I don't think anyone can realistically hope for otherwise. It's just a matter of how many cuts they can get with it. Unless of course the Dems do their stonewalling and refuse to negotiate then it will default.
To say the least, this question should apply to both sides. You have Boehner on one side, Reid and Obama on the other. One side wants to negotiate, while the other would rather the shutdown continue, doing further damage to it.
Funny, Republicans were the ones being accused of taking the government hostage, but it seems as if the Democrats are the ones holding the gun to it's head.
The debt limit is going to be raised, I don't think anyone can realistically hope for otherwise. It's just a matter of how many cuts they can get with it. Unless of course the Dems do their stonewalling and refuse to negotiate then it will default.
it all depends on these republicans if they want to be stonewalled as you say the fine the stonewalling results will be on the republicans heads for not doing the right thing ... you see if these repub-lie-clowns are stupid enough to put in defunding OBAMA care, you can bet your life we won't sign on ... these repub-lie-clowns will take the fall of the popularity cliff big time and I hope they do ... them we liberals will be rid of repub-lie-clowns for the next 40 0r 50 years
[
Its funny how you Obama knob slobberers keep telling us Republicans will get destroyed each election. Yet Republicans took the majority of the House AGAIN in the last election.
Keep trying to convince yourself that the GOP only represents a small fraction of America.
GOP won the House, GET OVER IT.
To say the least, this question should apply to both sides. You have Boehner on one side, Reid and Obama on the other. One side wants to negotiate, while the other would rather the shutdown continue, doing further damage to it.
Funny, Republicans were the ones being accused of taking the government hostage, but it seems as if the Democrats are the ones holding the gun to it's head.
No, Republicans are the ones who think that after you lose an election, you still get to call the shots.
Even their wealthy supporters are telling them to knock it off. But the Tea Party has become like Frankenstein's monster, ravaging everything the Mad Scientist cares about.
[
Its funny how you Obama knob slobberers keep telling us Republicans will get destroyed each election. Yet Republicans took the majority of the House AGAIN in the last election.
Keep trying to convince yourself that the GOP only represents a small fraction of America.
GOP won the House, GET OVER IT.
They only retained the house because they gerrymandered districts to protect as many seats as they could. Democrats got 1.4 million more votes in House races. And they lost the Senate and Presidency.
But eventually, demagraphics won't be their friend.
Of course, it isn't just about the GOP. It's about that tiny fraction of the GOP known as the TEA Party that is holding the rest of the party and the country hostage because the sensible GOP congressmen who know shutting down the government and defaulting on the debt are bad ideas don't want to get challenged in a primary by a teabagging nut.
The system is broken.
To say the least, this question should apply to both sides. You have Boehner on one side, Reid and Obama on the other. One side wants to negotiate, while the other would rather the shutdown continue, doing further damage to it.
Funny, Republicans were the ones being accused of taking the government hostage, but it seems as if the Democrats are the ones holding the gun to it's head.
No, Republicans are the ones who think that after you lose an election, you still get to call the shots.
Even their wealthy supporters are telling them to knock it off. But the Tea Party has become like Frankenstein's monster, ravaging everything the Mad Scientist cares about.
Each House Republican WON their election just as Obama did this last election.
I know you liberals think the President is a dictator and should just get HIS way no matter what. Unfortunately for you the Constitution built in a little something called separation of powers.
The debt limit is going to be raised, I don't think anyone can realistically hope for otherwise. It's just a matter of how many cuts they can get with it. Unless of course the Dems do their stonewalling and refuse to negotiate then it will default.
it all depends on these republicans if they want to be stonewalled as you say the fine the stonewalling results will be on the republicans heads for not doing the right thing ... you see if these repub-lie-clowns are stupid enough to put in defunding OBAMA care, you can bet your life we won't sign on ... these repub-lie-clowns will take the fall of the popularity cliff big time and I hope they do ... them we liberals will be rid of repub-lie-clowns for the next 40 0r 50 years
Its funny how you Obama knob slobberers keep telling us Republicans will get destroyed each election. Yet Republicans took the majority of the House AGAIN in the last election.
Keep trying to convince yourself that the GOP only represents a small fraction of America.
GOP won the House, GET OVER IT.
To say the least, this question should apply to both sides. You have Boehner on one side, Reid and Obama on the other. One side wants to negotiate, while the other would rather the shutdown continue, doing further damage to it.
Funny, Republicans were the ones being accused of taking the government hostage, but it seems as if the Democrats are the ones holding the gun to it's head.
No, Republicans are the ones who think that after you lose an election, you still get to call the shots.
Even their wealthy supporters are telling them to knock it off. But the Tea Party has become like Frankenstein's monster, ravaging everything the Mad Scientist cares about.
Each House Republican WON their election just as Obama did this last election.
I know you liberals think the President is a dictator and should just get HIS way no matter what. Unfortunately for you the Constitution built in a little something called separation of powers.
