Can we reasonably discuss Trump?

[NYcarbineer]

Sadly the seach function is now fucked on this board or I'd enjoy showing you how wrong the OP is. Convenient, eh?

 

[2aguy]

Bring back birtherism! Now that's when the RWnuts, INCLUDING TRUMP, really taught us the meaning and importance of reasonable discussion.

Birtherism...the tactic hilary clinton used to attack obama...until it didn't work and he won the Presidency....

Lie! Hillary never started that. BTW, both the Clinton and McCain camps in 2008 investigated Obama's birth and quickly realized he was born in Hawaii as stated. End of story.

Moron......we have actual reporters who stated her minion, sydney blumenthal and her campaign manager shopped the story around when she was running...you stupid asshole......

Why do you keep spreading fake news and lies that have been thoroughly debunked?

Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?

The Origin Story Of The Big Lie That Hillary Clinton Started Birtherism

Did Clinton Supporters Start the 'Birther' Movement?

because he's a neo nazi... its not hard to figure out

asswipe....a nazi is a left wing socialsit who believes in racial superiority.....I am an American Conservative who believes in limited government, capitalism, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and that all men and women are created equal...by God.....

So....swing and a miss for you again...moron..

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do these people realize that when they defend Trump on this, they're repudiating every criticism of Bill Clinton ever made on the subject of women?

Well no, it's actually quite the other way around. Bill Clinton was guilty of getting blow jobs in the oval office from an intern half his age. He has a long and storied history of sexual misconduct with women who have accused him of everything from inappropriate touching to outright rape. Trump has NO SUCH HISTORY. He simply made a comment to Billy Bush that was a true observation about how women behave with powerful wealthy men.

Trump confessed.

btw, you just claimed that what Clinton did was okay, because wealth and power make it okay.

 

[Pogo]

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic?

I think that's extremely smart business and he's well within his rights to do this. It's the primary reason some people are wealthy and others aren't. You don't really know all the details, just what you've been spoon-fed by the "fake news" media who wanted to lead you by the nose ring. People who deal with contracts do this all the time, it's business. If you contract with me to do X, Y and Z.... and you only do X and Y... I don't have an obligation to pay you. Our contract didn't agree to those terms. Sorry!

Unfuckingbelievable, this level of self-delusion.

OP's actually saying it's OK to rip people off as long as it's a nice orange authoritarian Daddy figure he can wank over.

Unfuckingbelievable.

 

[2aguy]

Hey...left wing assholes...keep it up...please......

The republicans dumped that guy who was the first black President mainly because of morons like you pushing your Anti-American crap....so please, keep it up...the country needs you to push your crap..so we can keep defeating you.....

 

[PurpleOwl]

Do these people realize that when they defend Trump on this, they're repudiating every criticism of Bill Clinton ever made on the subject of women?

Well no, it's actually quite the other way around. Bill Clinton was guilty of getting blow jobs in the oval office from an intern half his age. He has a long and storied history of sexual misconduct with women who have accused him of everything from inappropriate touching to outright rape. Trump has NO SUCH HISTORY. He simply made a comment to Billy Bush that was a true observation about how women behave with powerful wealthy men.

Trump confessed.

btw, you just claimed that what Clinton did was okay, because wealth and power make it okay.

he doesn't beleive his own bullshit.... stop acting like showing him this nonsense (he already knows is a lie) to be false will change his mind

Nazis know the holocaust happened... that doesn't stop them from denying it

 

[Lakhota]

Hey...left wing assholes...keep it up...please......

The republicans dumped that guy who was the first black President mainly because of morons like you pushing your Anti-American crap....so please, keep it up...the country needs you to push your crap..so we can keep defeating you.....

Get an education and stop lying.

 

[mamooth]

YES WE CAN!

Raise your fist if you are awesomer than God...

Is that raised fist the official Trump-fuerher salute now?

If it is, then for your own safety, you should probably refrain from using it in public, being you might get your ass kicked. After all, it would be like giving a Nazi salute in public. Most people will not be pleased.

Remember, Trump-snowflakes, according to your own postings here about the inaugeration, you got your asses kicked over and over by people that you claimed were wimps, and who you claimed were a minority. What does that say about your ability to defend yourselves?

 

[tycho1572]

Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

Good post. I can appreciate the the time you put into it. Thanks.

Like everyone, President Trump has his faults. The man is no more 'perfect' than those before him.

I'm glad he's now our president because I've had the same concerns he's talked about. We've been heading down a path(s) that will eventually hurt us.

Some people like to paint him with ugly labels because they can. They aren't concerned with facts. They dismiss all the times he's stepped up to help someone being ignored.

I have no doubt about Presidnt Trump being a good guy. He has a long history of helping people that would normally be ignored.
He's someone I can respect.

He'll be a great president.

 

[Pogo]

Okay, so the election happened and the transition is over. Donald John Trump is officially our 45th President of the United States of America. Some of us supported him enthusiastically, some of us held our noses and voted for him, some of us couldn't vote for him, some of us opposed him strongly and some probably didn't care one way or another. But he's now the president and he'll be the president unless he dies or gets impeached. Love him or hate him, that's now a fact of life.

I've been patient with those who supported Clinton and had to work through the shock of losing the election because I know how this feels. It takes you a while to work through the emotions and come to terms with things. In the meantime, you might say things that aren't very reasonable. I think we've all had time to let this soak in now and it's time we get on with the business of life.

I keep seeing these comments on social media and elsewhere about Trump being a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Hitler-like, etc. Whenever you question someone about such allegations, they just emote nonsense. They never can really tell me what the man said that supports such a charge. It's always a gross misinterpretation of something he said or did or an outright lie about something he never said or did. You have to twist things out of context and make false assumptions to reach this conclusion. When you have to do that, it's not reasonable. You're not making a reasoned argument.

Look, I totally get that a lot of people don't like his policy ideas. I understand an objection to things he has proposed doing or positions he has taken. I don't agree with Trump on everything, in fact, I couldn't actually cast my vote for him in the general. He said too many things that contradict my conservative principles and he just didn't meet my criteria to earn my vote. But he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe or misogynist. I see no comparison whatsoever to Hitler. I don't even think he is a narcissist. He's very confident in himself, I'll give you that. He can be very cocky and abrasively arrogant, and sometimes that can be construed as narcissism.

So now, if you have calmed down emotionally enough to reasonably discuss Trump, I am willing to entertain your thoughts on these allegations of whatever. This isn't a flame-fest or thread for you to emotively vent your frustration with the outcome of the elections. It's not about policies or politics in general, I realize many people disagree on his policies and politics. This is specifically for the reasoned discussion of Trump's personal views on race, gender, lifestyle, etc. It's time to put your evidence on the table and let's have a reasoned evaluation based on the facts.

There ain't no "can be construed" about it, at all. He's the MODEL of classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder. No one else would be literally up all night sending whiny tweets at 3 in the morning. He's severely mentally ill. There's simply no question about that.

However, that's nothing we didn't all know before the election, so it's not in any way news.

As far as racist/misogynist etc --- who knows. Given that he's a born liar and con artist who's out to manipulate people for his own benefit (again, Numero Uno), it's hard to find evidence. Manipulating other people's bigoted views of racism, religious or ethnic hatred, whatever, is not the same thing as actually holding those views oneself. With a con artist you really can't tell what he really believes personally ----- as distinct from what he believes will benefit him personally.

I do believe he's a misogynist though. There's way too much evidence.

Let's start with the definition...

Misogyny - Wikipedia

Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls.

So according to this there is absolutely no way this man would hire women into positions of power in his companies......in an all male industry like construction....except he did....as one of the first men to do that at a time when it was unheard of.....who has women in all levels of leadership in his business enterprises.......oh...and the individual who ran his successful campaign....was a woman...and the lawyer handling his transition and explaining how he is moving out of his businesses...was a female lawyer....

So.....I guess that since he is a misogynist he would never do any of that......

But morons like you can keep saying it......lying and making things up are your specialty...

Oh fucking bullshit brought in with enough dump trucks to fill a silo.

No it does not mean that at all, and your puerile attempt to declare your own definition in order to arrive at your own predetermined conclusion is just as pathetically transparent as the rest of your delusional dumbfuckery.

 

[Boss]

Okay, so in many cases you can get away with MURDER if you have wealth and power.

Is that the new morality? Wealth and power dictates right and wrong?

First of all, you've not shown us where Trump ever said it was moral or legal to do what he said. Second... can we take your statement to mean that you approve of people murdering others just because they're wealthy and powerful? That's what you're doing with Trump. You're making the same kind of observational statement... you're not saying it's moral or legal, or that you've done it before or even that you think it's okay to do it.

So let's say it's 10 years down the road and you're applying for a really great job and you've got a good shot at it.... but someone starts sending your prospective employer letters stating they have evidence you think it's okay to murder people. They point to this comment you just made as proof. Would that be ethical in your mind?

 

[Pogo]

To liberals Trump's election literally brought their world crashing down. They believed that republicans were done, finished. As they were so fond of saying, never win another national election. Further cementing their opinion of permanent majority was a firm reliance on demographic changes that permanently disenfranchised white people. Democrats were celebrating Kansas, Tennessee and Texas going blue for all time and Georgia at least going democrat for Hillary this time.

Democrats were secure enough in their entitlement that they could mock and denigrate the middle class for entertainment. No one really need pay attention to those non college educated rubes. They do what their betters tell them to do and choke on it. These are the deplorables, the irredeemables. The bitter clingers hanging on to guns and Bibles.

Then there was a revolution. The middle class found a standard bearer, rose up and threw you over. Yep, the liberals were thrown into the trash heap.
You surely deserve it too.

"Liberals"? Or "Democrats"? Pick one already.

 

[Boss]

Do these people realize that when they defend Trump on this, they're repudiating every criticism of Bill Clinton ever made on the subject of women?

Well no, it's actually quite the other way around. Bill Clinton was guilty of getting blow jobs in the oval office from an intern half his age. He has a long and storied history of sexual misconduct with women who have accused him of everything from inappropriate touching to outright rape. Trump has NO SUCH HISTORY. He simply made a comment to Billy Bush that was a true observation about how women behave with powerful wealthy men.

Trump confessed.

btw, you just claimed that what Clinton did was okay, because wealth and power make it okay.

Trump didn't confess to anything.

 

[Dr Grump]

[
However you paint it, how do you think his supporters have felt? Bullied for their beliefs for a decade. Bullied if they don't believe a particular way. Bullied for wanting to defend their children and their dreams. Even now bullied for their political beliefs? Made to feel as if they are wrong for exericizing their rights.

If he's a bully it's because he is quite pissed. He is seeing middle America suffer and nobody gives a damn. He has seen China rise to become a larger economic threat than Russia ever was. Seen Iran get a sweetheart deal and the rise of ISIS. Watched as 11 million illegals, some of them committing crimes on multiple occasions are treated better than American citizens. Seeing border guards told to stand down while the border is violated with vigor. Seen the inner cities life is squalor while being given crumbs to vote for the same idiots who won't help. Seen nations abuse America in trade deals while refusing to call them out. Seeing the debt rise to $20 trillion while Americas infrastructure erodes.

Yes, maybe it's time for a bully in the White House, or at least someone who knows how to take a strong stand against the ridiculous. How else is this going to be turned around?

Stop spouting rhetoric and back it up with facts. Crimes down United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2015

Trade deals? America has a lot of good trade deals on its side.

Trust me, Trump doesn't give a fuck about middle America. He's been ripping them off his entire life. From contractors who work on his building sites to those who signed up for Trump University. Please, do me a favour....

 

[bripat9643]

First off, stuff your condescending attitude. Trump fans have been the irrational ones after the election, not us, and you really ought to apologize for being so hysterical. We get it, you're butthurt because we keep pointing out your immorality, and you aren't able to bully us into stopping. Tough luck. Deal with it, snowflake.

Now, let's start the cycle of you evading again. All of this was discussed in detail during the campaign, so it's causing major eye-rolls when you pretend not to have seen it.

One reason we say Trump is a thief -- he made it a policy to stiff his contractors (we can get into his policy of stiffing his shareholders and stiffing his customers later.)

USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic? That is, assuming you won't deny he used it, or say everyone did it, or evade in some other fashion.

Well, that is certainly objective scientific evidence. Do you suppose contractors would line up to bid on Trump's projects if they knew they were going to get stiffed? That hardly seems rational. Do you suppose there is any general contractor who hasn't had a contract dispute with a sub contractor? Again, that can't possibly be true. I'm sure you can hunt down a sub to whine about almost any general contractor. If Trump was no worse than the average, you would still be able to find plenty of whiners to complain about him.

This story is obviously just more of the usual fake news.

 

[Dr Grump]

What behavior? That he said the truth? That he defended himself against smears? Yeah... I'll excuse his behavior there. You have any evidence of anything else?

I've shown you the evidence. Next time anybody you know gets sexually assaulted, or disses somebody whose son died in service, don't come bleating on to this board about it. You obviously agree with people who do that.

Trump is a disgusting piece of human garbage. You're defending him. That says a lot about you. None of it good...

 

[bripat9643]

sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.

Accusing Repubs of racism is what left wingers do. It's part of the Alinsky strategy book. Don't waste your time expecting a rational explanation. Winning is all they care about, but any means possible.

 

[PurpleOwl]

sure? what do you wanna know specifically? I'm guessing your looking for info you can't find on google alone right?

No, I am honestly trying to get to the bottom of what is causing all this overblown emotional anguish with some in our society. I don't understand it. This man has been in the public eye for 50 years and has never shown any indication of racism as far as I know, but suddenly he's a flaming racist. Same with women... yeah, he's been married a few times but so what? Homophobia? He's the most pro-LGBT candidate to ever win an election. So what is the root of all this? Where is it coming from? Is it simply about politics and nothing else? Is it because he's pro-life? Supports the 2nd Amendment? Wants to stop illegal immigration?

I think he is being falsely and irrationally judged based on hyperbole and rhetoric... nothing more. You've chosen to attack him personally because you don't agree with him politically. That's what I think.

Accusing Repubs of racism is what left wingers do. It's part of the Alinsky strategy book. Don't waste your time expecting a rational explanation. Winning is all they care about, but any means possible.

cause your racist as fuck? you personally are insanely racist

 

[PurpleOwl]

Okay, so in many cases you can get away with MURDER if you have wealth and power.

Is that the new morality? Wealth and power dictates right and wrong?

First of all, you've not shown us where Trump ever said it was moral or legal to do what he said. Second... can we take your statement to mean that you approve of people murdering others just because they're wealthy and powerful? That's what you're doing with Trump. You're making the same kind of observational statement... you're not saying it's moral or legal, or that you've done it before or even that you think it's okay to do it.

So let's say it's 10 years down the road and you're applying for a really great job and you've got a good shot at it.... but someone starts sending your prospective employer letters stating they have evidence you think it's okay to murder people. They point to this comment you just made as proof. Would that be ethical in your mind?

is trump paying you for this legal defense?

 

[Boss]

He would almost never pay a contractor what the contract said. He would always find fault, and then offer half, and say "take it or take me to court", knowing that most contractors couldn't afford to take him to court.

To most people, that's robbery, a rich guy robbing small contractors because he can.

What do you think of the tactic?

I think that's extremely smart business and he's well within his rights to do this. It's the primary reason some people are wealthy and others aren't. You don't really know all the details, just what you've been spoon-fed by the "fake news" media who wanted to lead you by the nose ring. People who deal with contracts do this all the time, it's business. If you contract with me to do X, Y and Z.... and you only do X and Y... I don't have an obligation to pay you. Our contract didn't agree to those terms. Sorry!

Unfuckingbelievable, this level of self-delusion.

OP's actually saying it's OK to rip people off as long as it's a nice orange authoritarian Daddy figure he can wank over.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Sorry, but I see this the other way around. It's ripping someone off to not fulfill your contracted obligations. It has nothing to do with what color you are or who your daddy is or how wealthy you are.

You see... way back in time, men gave their word and shook hands... that was all they needed because men were as good as their word. But times changed and so did men, and sometimes they wouldn't honor their word... so we invented this thing called a "contract" so that men could mutually agree on terms again. Now if contracts can't be expected to be honored or respected then we're right back in the same boat again.

So we have to keep the contract idea because that's better than what we did before. And we have to maintain respect for the integrity of the contract and what is agreed to in it. We can't start saying that certain contracts are meaningless because some people have more money than others. That's what you want to do but that's not going to happen. Sorry!