Can you be Anti Authoritarian on the left?

[bripat9643]

Ahhhh, the old "Murica, love it or leave it" bullshit....Good thing you're not an authoritarian!

All I'm saying is is nobody is forcing you to be on this team. We don't need you, there are billions of folks who would do virtually anything to have your spot.

Good....Can I quit being forced, at gunpoint if necessary, to pay for your "game"?

You're playing, ya gotta pay.

Don't wanna play? Well there's the door, as oreviprevi mentioned.

He wasn't given a choice about playing, dumbass.

He has a choice. Nobody is trapped here.

Leaving the country you were born in is not a choice, douchebag. Furthermore, what gives anyone the right to tell me where I can live?

 

[P@triot]

All fine and dandy, except that they weren't really left wing. They were authoritarian dictatorships masquerading as communism.

I love the way leftwingers claim every incarnation of their ideals is not a genuine incarnation of their ideals.

Right, Bri? They are deathly afraid of society understanding what their ideology brings (which is authoritarianism, extreme poverty, mass murder, etc.).

 

[Oddball]

All fine and dandy, except that they weren't really left wing. They were authoritarian dictatorships masquerading as communism.

I love the way leftwingers claim every incarnation of their ideals is not a genuine incarnation of their ideals.

Right, Bri? They are deathly afraid of society understanding what their ideology brings (which is authoritarianism, extreme poverty, mass murder, etc.).

 

[Asclepias]

Keeping it short since that seems to get more of a response.

Mostly a question to those who self identify as being more left wing.
And hopefully is treated with honest responses and not just emotional venting.


Also is there a forum "topic" for just asking questions and getting honest responses from both sides of the spectrum? you know, learn why a side thinks the way the do?

I doubt being anti authoritarian has anything to do with left or right.

To take your post as saying a person can be anti-authoritarian no matter what 'side' it comes from, yes.
By definition, right certainly implies strict authority.
They could be correct as well as 'right', yet authority always needs frequent visits from less harnessed sectors. Maybe society needs both.

Everything needs balance. The nutcases on both sides are the ones that tend to cause a crisis .

 

[Asclepias]

Keeping it short since that seems to get more of a response.

Mostly a question to those who self identify as being more left wing.
And hopefully is treated with honest responses and not just emotional venting.


Also is there a forum "topic" for just asking questions and getting honest responses from both sides of the spectrum? you know, learn why a side thinks the way the do?

Notice, no one on the right asks if right wingers can be anti authoritarian. Looking at Trump, the GOP and voter suppression and election fraud, the answer is obvious. So obvious in fact, it's overt. Especially after what the legislature has been doing in Wisconsin and Michigan.

There are very few righties on this site that are not unhinged, slobbering Drumpf supporters. I can respect those few even if I disagree with their stances on certain issues.

 

[P@triot]

The left-wing ideology is built on authoritarianism.

“Liberals want to live in a world where they are the gods and there is no life or law beyond themselves. They see government as a power source for reshaping reality.”

They will only accept complete and total submission to their way. That’s why islam is the one faith they accept and tolerate - they share the same allegiance to oppression.

We Hear You: Conservatives and Liberals, Thoughts and Prayers

 

[flacaltenn]

Keeping it short since that seems to get more of a response.

Mostly a question to those who self identify as being more left wing.
And hopefully is treated with honest responses and not just emotional venting.


Also is there a forum "topic" for just asking questions and getting honest responses from both sides of the spectrum? you know, learn why a side thinks the way the do?

Keeping it short since that seems to get more of a response.

Mostly a question to those who self identify as being more left wing.
And hopefully is treated with honest responses and not just emotional venting.


Also is there a forum "topic" for just asking questions and getting honest responses from both sides of the spectrum? you know, learn why a side thinks the way the do?

That's a brilliant question.. Because it lays naked the failures of the simple ass "left and right" political spectrum.. AND because the Dem party is now FULL statist and power hungry and there are no "liberals" left who have a rational FEAR of obtrusive, over-bearing government. That rational fear has been bred totally out of the party faithful across the entire ranks --- from establishment Dem to Progressive Marxist.

Of course there COULD BE anti-authoritarians who support the Dem party -- but the most likely candidates would be ANARCHISTS like AntiFa who go too FAR in the anti-establishment direction.. Once there starts to be a disdain for the "restrictive nature" of the Constitution and the rule of law --- your tribe is generally headed in the Full Monty mode of Authoritarianism..

Welcome to USMB.. Didn't understand your question "fully" about a place to get "honest answers".. But check out the "Clean Debate" forum. Those are tightest rules on USMB and require civil discourse without any personal poking or baiting...

 

[flacaltenn]

Keeping it short since that seems to get more of a response.

Mostly a question to those who self identify as being more left wing.
And hopefully is treated with honest responses and not just emotional venting.


Also is there a forum "topic" for just asking questions and getting honest responses from both sides of the spectrum? you know, learn why a side thinks the way the do?

Um, being anti-authoritarian is pretty much what the left is all about.

Interesting can you explain more?
If the authority at hand is government do you still believe it to be true?

Yes. the things we on the left want to accomplish with government are about enhancing freedom, safety, and quality of life for the majority of people.

What you WANT and how you GET it are 2 different issues. It's how you go about "enhancing safety and quality of life". And to what extent you USE govt FORCE to achieve it. That's where the authoritarian vs libertarian dimension of politics comes in. REDISTRIBUTION of stuff is pretty authoritarian if the "stuff" was LEGALLY acquired. So is making folks criminals for passing out soda straws or buying Big Gulps.

But the more important stuff would be like LOVING a monstrous Big Brother Domestic Spying you bought for NSA capability that BOTH parties seems to feel they can't live without now. EVEN WORSE -- supporting it's use to SPY on an opposition political campaign for apparently no good reason...

 

[flacaltenn]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

 

[flacaltenn]

Been looking at Pew studies and it seems that Democrats tend to vote for more governmental power other than the topics listed.
Border defense, terrorism , Military and abortion
It doesn't mean they are for pulling all funding for these but tend to want less government in those areas compared to their republican counter parts.

Let me know if you find any others.

"American Studies' not sure how these differ from other places.

Naww... Just 4 or 6 years ago, the Dem leadership was ALL for borders and even walls. In terms of USING the military, they are probably just as interventionist as the Repubs on foreign policy. Just don't want to pay for it.

Obama shined a light on their view of individual responsibility and freedom when he formulated the "You didn't build that" meme. Both the left and too many Repub leaders have this naive overblown estimate of the competence, ability, efficiency, and wisdom of Federal govt to solve every grievance, offense, and detail of your daily life and the world....

 

[OKTexas]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

 

[OKTexas]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

You want Feds to withhold money from Colleges with speech codes? That's 85% of colleges. Until they FORCE it by law -- it's just a warning sign... And YEAH -- it's authoritarian. But it's not backed by prison time or guys with guns.

 

[Asclepias]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

Speech codes? So you think its wrong for a work place to ban cursing?

 

[OKTexas]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

You want Feds to withhold money from Colleges with speech codes? That's 85% of colleges. Until they FORCE it by law -- it's just a warning sign... And YEAH -- it's authoritarian. But it's not backed by prison time or guys with guns.

No it's backed by the people that hold the futures of millions of young adults in their hands, and it's forced indoctrination by those aholes. So hell yes, all public funds should be withheld until they change their tune. It's antithetical to American values and when no one speaks up, you have silent endorsement. Is that where you want your tax money going?

.

 

[flacaltenn]

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

You want Feds to withhold money from Colleges with speech codes? That's 85% of colleges. Until they FORCE it by law -- it's just a warning sign... And YEAH -- it's authoritarian. But it's not backed by prison time or guys with guns.

No it's backed by the people that hold the futures of millions of young adults in their hands, and it's forced indoctrination by those aholes. So hell yes, all public funds should be withheld until they change their tune. It's antithetical to American values and when no one speaks up, you have silent endorsement. Is that where you want your tax money going?

.

Sounds kinda "authoritarian" to withhold funds based on politically correct indoctrination. I'd prefer folks would stop and think about laying out the big bucks for their kid to get "programmed" instead of edumacated.

 

[OKTexas]

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

You want Feds to withhold money from Colleges with speech codes? That's 85% of colleges. Until they FORCE it by law -- it's just a warning sign... And YEAH -- it's authoritarian. But it's not backed by prison time or guys with guns.

No it's backed by the people that hold the futures of millions of young adults in their hands, and it's forced indoctrination by those aholes. So hell yes, all public funds should be withheld until they change their tune. It's antithetical to American values and when no one speaks up, you have silent endorsement. Is that where you want your tax money going?

.

Sounds kinda "authoritarian" to withhold funds based on politically correct indoctrination. I'd prefer folks would stop and think about laying out the big bucks for their kid to get "programmed" instead of edumacated.

Upholding the Constitution in publicly funded institutions is not authoritarian, individual students and groups of students shouldn't have to sue their college to exercise their constitutional rights.

.

 

[OKTexas]

This is what I was trying to clear up no one here values freedom as their highest value and no one here believes freedom to be a plague what I'm trying to decipher is if the "left" can hold freedom as a higher value than the "right". And if not why.

Freedom and liberty aren't heard much at all from anyone on left. Only true "liberals" are in some think tanks like Cato or libertarians of the pragmatic type, not the Ayn Rand fantasy type. Not to demean Ayn Rand, but governing is different than holding philosophy meetings....

If you LOSE choices and freedoms or willingly give them up for a more authoritarian utopia or dystopia, you'll never see the end of the power grab.. Both your social and economic freedom are essential to "the pursuit of happiness" and personal security.

The only demonstration required of who supports authoritarianism, is to look who is supporting the denial of free speech, political, climate change and tons of other issues. Shutting down speech insures a consensus will never be reached. Shutting down speech is as authoritarian as it gets.

.

But that's not YET on a national scale or part of anyone's platform. PERHAPS it's coming, but right now, that's just an abuse of power on a local scale.

Really, I give you Maxine Waters and the silence on the left. Then you have public colleges all over the country passing speech codes, more silence on the left. A passive endorsement is an endorsement none the less.

.

Speech codes? So you think its wrong for a work place to ban cursing?

Move along troll, I gave examples. What a business does is irrelevant to this discussion.

.

 

[Faun]

As far as I understand it the vast majority of "left-wing" actions are taken to remove individual freedom. I'm not making a case against this but simply confused.
Are there causes in the left wing circle where they fight for less power in the hands of Government?

Is it possible to be liberal minded but be overall against the addition of regulations laws already in place?

I'm trying my best to articulate my thoughts I understand its still going to be misconstrued as an insult to the left wing but I'm trying to understand the "overall" beliefs of "Left & Right" since everyone has different definitions, so I'm trying to formulate my own.

Youre confusing power with authority. Power is simply the ability to do something. Authority is a claim to legitimacy of the ability to do something.

I feel like in order for the left to achieve what they desire it commonly takes away individual rights. Am I wrong in that assumption?

You mean like abortion, which protects individual rights of women to control their own body?