Capitalism is always better, innit?

[bripat9643]

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

He gave examples of government outsourcing government functions to a private business. That has zero to do with capitalism. It's still socialism. Companies that bid on government contracts are following government specs. They aren't making any free market decisions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Free markets are companies that create a better mouse trap. They aren't companies that build a mouse trap to government specifications.

Yes, actually making your own choice is ALWAYS better than a politician making your choice for you

Privatisation is the polar opposite of socialism. Its a free hit for private companies. If they screw up the state will always step back in and rescue them because these services cant be allowed to fail.

There are businesses that the state has no reason to be involved in.But there are also businesses that the state should either run or control very tightly.

Not only is that bull crap, but it's totally inane.

Socialism - government ownership of industry

Tommy - the opposite of that is private industry which is under complete government control

No, moron. The opposite of that is government not running the economy. Capitalism

Socialism... Ownership OR regulation of Industry by the community. Big difference. You're talking about communism, super duper.

Communism is Pure socialism. Doesn't work, even worse than pure capitalism.

Pure capitalism works beautifully.

 

[Markle]

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

You're being facetious, aren't you?

 

[bripat9643]

I would like to block some takeovers in the public interest. I think that would be a good thing for people. It is something that the takeover panels could look at.

And if it was something that was "bad" the panels could just abolish and destroy it.

Its a complex issue. The local brewery I highlighted was a profitable business.It didnt need to close.
If a business is in difficulty and someone comes in for it then that is a different matter and different criteria come into play.
There should be consideration of all stakeholders when these things happen. That isnt unreasonable.

A year or so back a UK retailer, BHS was sold to an Aussie conman for a £5. They were struggling and about to collapse.The owner wanted rid and the staff were relieved that someone wanted them. Less than a year later they went bust.
Then the problems started. There was a mega sized hole in the company pension fund. The new owners had bought assets and liabilities but were potless.
The previous owner played Pilate and washed his hands of them. That takeover should have been blocked until the pension deficit had been put right.
The pensioners were stakeholders in the business and had been ignored in the takeover process. That cant be right.

Liberal Dictionary
==================================================
Stakeholder - someone who didn't create it or pay for it but thinks he's entitled to control it.

Your belief that the previous owner could have filled the hole in the pension program is idiotic. They were going bankrupt. Where would this money to fill the hole come from?

 

[Markle]

How many countries are actually, really, truly socialist?

Not many. Cuba might be the only one.

China claims to be Communist but is at best not that Socialist.

The USSR was Socialist to a large degree.

But then again we can find Capitalist countries that suck.

HOWEVER, this thread isn't a Socialist countries v. Capitalist countries thread.

It's that sometimes Capitalism isn't the best thing. That doesn't mean that full bang on Socialism is also the best.

Is Cuba the only Socialist Country? Have you left out Venezuela and North Korea?

 

[bripat9643]

And

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Agreed that Medicaid and welfare are socialistic giveaway programs. Not sure that schools and libraries are socialistic. Believe it or not, socialism doesn't simply mean "the government does stuff".

Welfare and health are not give aways.We fund them through the tax system. Nothing is free.

They're giveaways, because they operate by taxing people who don't use them, and they're used by people who - by definition - aren't paying for them. I can call them "redistribution", if you prefer. I wasn't sure that wouldn't be too many syllables for you.

That's socialism though. You have a group of people, all of which are contained under the umbrella of the service, and all of which receive from that pool. It obviously ends up being where a minority of people end up putting in the majority of the value and therefore get less value out of it. That's the definition of socialism really. So yes, something like Social Security is a socialist endeavor, strictly speaking. Socialism is redistribution of assets.

The argument that the pro-socialism people are making is that that's a good thing in some instances in the name of compassion and taking care of people. It's forced charity. Charity = good, therefore forcing someone at gunpoint to be charitable = good. The ends justify the means. It's about that simple.

Yet, i'd bet you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is for making all schooling private. Meaning, you have to pay for kindergarten through high school out of your own pocket. Sure, you'd save a smidge on taxes, but for those below the middle class, you'd have over half the population being illiterate or completely devoid of schooling. Can anyone make a really good argument for school being completely privatized and the government not funding it?

Are you willing to let someone die in the streets cause he got cancer through no fault of his own in order to save on your taxes? Are you willing to let millions of kids grow up illiterate and in abject poverty because they have no access to education in order to save on some taxes? It's all about where you draw that line. As bad as socialism is, anarchy is the other extreme and it's just as bad. What everyone argues over is where the line is to be drawn.

And there are some things that the state can do better than the private sector. Health,Defence and education being good examples. But then nobody wants to see a state run burger bar.

The state does a horrible job of all three. However, it would be difficult to privitize defense.

 

[initforme]

Capitalism is by far the best known system out there Barr none. But this is old news. The thing is socialism does not exist in america. It has no foothold. It has little if any support. It is no threat whatsoever to america. These threads are all about nothing. Preaching to the choir.

 

[initforme]

Privatizing the defense could very well result in its demise. People would be less inclined to support a corporate army where a profit motive for the company is involved.

 

[Markle]

Ive done alright by "capitalism", Ive always worked for public companies and was able to buy my house when I cashed in share options.
What you are describing is the law of the jungle. It isnt an appropriate way to conduct ourselves.

Amazon, Apple, Facebook - all the new giant corporations are driven by greed . There is no heroic crusade going on.

I'm sure you'll agree that there is both good and bad greed. Where is it written or expected that a corporation needs to have a heroic crusade along with being a well-run business?

Do you believe that Henry Ford invented the assembly line in an effort to begin a heroic crusade?

 

[initforme]

The gap between the wealthy and middle class will continue to grow exponentially but that's part of the system. Wages for most working class folk aren't rising nearly fast enough.

 

[Markle]

There are many many examples of companies failing because of greed, there are even more examples of communities being devastated by unfettered capitalism. I could list them if you wanted but we both know that it is true.

So please list several examples of each along with their source and link.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

Show me a socialist country that is better than the US.

And after you have shown it. What's keeping you here?

How many countries are actually, really, truly socialist?

Not many. Cuba might be the only one.

China claims to be Communist but is at best not that Socialist.

The USSR was Socialist to a large degree.

But then again we can find Capitalist countries that suck.

HOWEVER, this thread isn't a Socialist countries v. Capitalist countries thread.

It's that sometimes Capitalism isn't the best thing. That doesn't mean that full bang on Socialism is also the best.

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Agreed that Medicaid and welfare are socialistic giveaway programs. Not sure that schools and libraries are socialistic. Believe it or not, socialism doesn't simply mean "the government does stuff".

It more or less does mean "the government does stuff". It's about where the funding comes from. If the funding comes from society, ie, the government, that makes it socialist.

Socialism is when the means of production are in the hands of the people, which in 100 cases out of 100, means the government.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How many countries are actually, really, truly socialist?

Not many. Cuba might be the only one.

China claims to be Communist but is at best not that Socialist.

The USSR was Socialist to a large degree.

But then again we can find Capitalist countries that suck.

HOWEVER, this thread isn't a Socialist countries v. Capitalist countries thread.

It's that sometimes Capitalism isn't the best thing. That doesn't mean that full bang on Socialism is also the best.

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Agreed that Medicaid and welfare are socialistic giveaway programs. Not sure that schools and libraries are socialistic. Believe it or not, socialism doesn't simply mean "the government does stuff".

Welfare and health are not give aways.We fund them through the tax system. Nothing is free.

They're giveaways, because they operate by taxing people who don't use them, and they're used by people who - by definition - aren't paying for them. I can call them "redistribution", if you prefer. I wasn't sure that wouldn't be too many syllables for you.

What's the difference between insurance and taxing?

You buy insurance whether you use it or not. You get taxed whether you use it or not.

 

[Markle]

Captialism has been a catastrophic failure in most of the places it's been tried, in case you missed 1929 and 2008, among others.

WOW! Let me guess, you're being facetious and simply just trolling that idea to get a response. You win, you're a fool!

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

Captialism has been a catastrophic failure in most of the places it's been tried, in case you missed 1929 and 2008, among others.

Do you need boxes or bubble wrap cupcake?

 

[JBond]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Yes, we've done a wonderful job of punishing Venezeula for 18 years now for picking a form of government we don't like.

Fucking incredible. Are you retarded?

 

[Markle]

And there are some things that the state can do better than the private sector. Health,Defence and education being good examples. But then nobody wants to see a state run burger bar.

The only thing the government can do better than private enterprise is the defense of our country and that is neither efficient nor economical.

The only thing government does well is write checks.

 

[Markle]

Yes, we've done a wonderful job of punishing Venezeula for 18 years now for picking a form of government we don't like.

Specifically, how did we punish Venezuela? Did we nationalize their golden goose, the oil industry? How about the farms and even shopping malls? Since you're a reputable person I presume you will include the source and link.

Thank you!

 

[Markle]

The gap between the wealthy and middle class will continue to grow exponentially but that's part of the system. Wages for most working class folk aren't rising nearly fast enough.

As you know, the majority of people leaving the middle-income group are entering into higher income brackets. How is that a bad thing?

 

[bripat9643]

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Agreed that Medicaid and welfare are socialistic giveaway programs. Not sure that schools and libraries are socialistic. Believe it or not, socialism doesn't simply mean "the government does stuff".

Welfare and health are not give aways.We fund them through the tax system. Nothing is free.

They're giveaways, because they operate by taxing people who don't use them, and they're used by people who - by definition - aren't paying for them. I can call them "redistribution", if you prefer. I wasn't sure that wouldn't be too many syllables for you.

What's the difference between insurance and taxing?

You buy insurance whether you use it or not. You get taxed whether you use it or not.

We realize that you don't understand the difference between voluntary and compulsory. That's what makes you a Stalinist.

 

[basquebromance]

i have X means i deserve X.

me being rich doesnt make you poor