Capitalism is always better, innit?

[Dale Smith]

Yahoo is now part of Oath

The UK govt has taken over a G4S prison because the G4S couldn't run it properly.

"He wrote: "It was often difficult to find officers, although we did find some asleep during prisoner lock-up periods."

Government planning possible take-over of Southern rail – report

"
Government planning possible take-over of Southern rail – report"



"Commuters have suffered almost two years of disruption and delay on the rail network, a situation that has been exacerbated by strikes since last April. "

Louisiana, Prisons for Profit, and World's Highest Incarceration Rate

Louisiana's private prison system is the envy of nobody anywhere. It's a system that encourages reoffending, because it earns the prisons more money.

Yep, capitalism is always best... except when it isn't.

HELL! "Gubermint" knows best! Dont need no damn private bidness when gubermint can do better!



Seriously, frigweirdo, putting your faith in commie "gubermint" control aint the answer.

 

[basquebromance]

a cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. thats socialism

i'm an optimistic capitalist

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I would like to block some takeovers in the public interest. I think that would be a good thing for people. It is something that the takeover panels could look at.

And if it was something that was "bad" the panels could just abolish and destroy it.

Its a complex issue. The local brewery I highlighted was a profitable business.It didnt need to close.
If a business is in difficulty and someone comes in for it then that is a different matter and different criteria come into play.
There should be consideration of all stakeholders when these things happen. That isnt unreasonable.

A year or so back a UK retailer, BHS was sold to an Aussie conman for a £5. They were struggling and about to collapse.The owner wanted rid and the staff were relieved that someone wanted them. Less than a year later they went bust.
Then the problems started. There was a mega sized hole in the company pension fund. The new owners had bought assets and liabilities but were potless.
The previous owner played Pilate and washed his hands of them. That takeover should have been blocked until the pension deficit had been put right.
The pensioners were stakeholders in the business and had been ignored in the takeover process. That cant be right.

Liberal Dictionary
==================================================
Stakeholder - someone who didn't create it or pay for it but thinks he's entitled to control it.

Your belief that the previous owner could have filled the hole in the pension program is idiotic. They were going bankrupt. Where would this money to fill the hole come from?

Philip Green agrees to pay £363m into BHS pension fund

Well eventually he had to.

Sir Philip Green has agreed to hand over £363m in cash to rescue the BHS pension scheme, and settle one of the biggest City rows of recent decades.

The deal with the Pensions Regulator, which is likely to help the billionaire keep his knighthood, follows the controversial collapse of the BHS department store chain last April, which led to the loss of 11,000 jobs and left a pension deficit assessed at £571m.

A high-profile parliamentary investigation into the demise of BHS concluded that the company had been systematically plundered by its owners and described the hole in the pension fund as “the unacceptable face of capitalism”. MPs voted in favour of stripping Green of his knighthood.

The billionaire tycoon owned BHS for 15 years until he sold it to Dominic Chappell, a former bankrupt, for just £1 in March 2015. During his ownership, the Green family and other shareholders collected at least £580m from BHS in dividends, rental payments and interest on loans.

He took £580m out of the business whilst runnning up a £580m deficit in the pension fund. the figures are quite revealing.
The pensioners were STAKEHOLDERS in the business and their pensions were a contractual obligation that Mr Green tried to offload when it became burdensome.

The takeover shoud have been blocked whilst this was sorted out. That is not a controversial stance.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

We don't know all the details of those examples. The train example shows what happens when the government enforces union membership. That's hardly an example of pure capitalism at work. All three examples included significant government involvement. Try producing an example of pure free enterprise that sucks. You can't do it.

The government does not enforce union membership.In fact this government would probably like to abolish the unions altogether.

The train example is an example of the state having to step in and rescue a failed capitalist venture in the public interest.
Its the clearest example you could find.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

We don't know all the details of those examples. The train example shows what happens when the government enforces union membership. That's hardly an example of pure capitalism at work. All three examples included significant government involvement. Try producing an example of pure free enterprise that sucks. You can't do it.

The government does not enforce union membership.In fact this government would probably like to abolish the unions altogether.

The train example is an example of the state having to step in and rescue a failed capitalist venture in the public interest.
Its the clearest example you could find.

Why do you "funny" this post Norman ?

 

[Norman]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

We don't know all the details of those examples. The train example shows what happens when the government enforces union membership. That's hardly an example of pure capitalism at work. All three examples included significant government involvement. Try producing an example of pure free enterprise that sucks. You can't do it.

The government does not enforce union membership.In fact this government would probably like to abolish the unions altogether.

The train example is an example of the state having to step in and rescue a failed capitalist venture in the public interest.
Its the clearest example you could find.

Why do you "funny" this post Norman ?

Because as your other posts in the thread it's so stupid it's funny. Or maybe it's just stupid and not funny, but since there is no stupid button this will have to do.

Here is your basic argument:
- Capitalism failed to build a road somewhere.
???
- Therefore capitalism fails in all aspects and I am entitled to your cash.

I give very little shit about who builds the roads or this particular railway. If it's the government probably not the best choice, but ok. Now get the fck out of my wallet and get a god damned job.

 

[sparky]

I see, so pages upon pages of descriptions

But still no agreed definition of a 'capitalist system' beyond lame anecdotals

Try harder guys....

~S~

 

[kaz]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

He gave examples of government outsourcing government functions to a private business. That has zero to do with capitalism. It's still socialism. Companies that bid on government contracts are following government specs. They aren't making any free market decisions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Free markets are companies that create a better mouse trap. They aren't companies that build a mouse trap to government specifications.

Yes, actually making your own choice is ALWAYS better than a politician making your choice for you

Privatisation is the polar opposite of socialism. Its a free hit for private companies. If they screw up the state will always step back in and rescue them because these services cant be allowed to fail.

There are businesses that the state has no reason to be involved in.But there are also businesses that the state should either run or control very tightly.

Not only is that bull crap, but it's totally inane.

Socialism - government ownership of industry

Tommy - the opposite of that is private industry which is under complete government control

No, moron. The opposite of that is government not running the economy. Capitalism

I think we re at cross purposes here. Privatisation is where the government sells off public owned businesses to the private sector. thatcher was a big fan of this.
Two years ago the Royal Mail was privatised. Since then the drectors have seen their salaries explode and they are selling off all of their land to finance this. They are milking a monopoly.

Building prisons and public rail aren't privatization. The Government isn't selling prisons or the pubic rail. They are just contracting to privately owned companies.

You're creating a distinction without a difference. There is no market place for prisons or public transpiration. It's not capitalism in any way, shape or form.

Notice how you simpletons to prove that capitalism doesn't work go to markets where the only customer is government. That's just completely stupid

 

[Norman]

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

He gave examples of government outsourcing government functions to a private business. That has zero to do with capitalism. It's still socialism. Companies that bid on government contracts are following government specs. They aren't making any free market decisions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Free markets are companies that create a better mouse trap. They aren't companies that build a mouse trap to government specifications.

Yes, actually making your own choice is ALWAYS better than a politician making your choice for you

Privatisation is the polar opposite of socialism. Its a free hit for private companies. If they screw up the state will always step back in and rescue them because these services cant be allowed to fail.

There are businesses that the state has no reason to be involved in.But there are also businesses that the state should either run or control very tightly.

Not only is that bull crap, but it's totally inane.

Socialism - government ownership of industry

Tommy - the opposite of that is private industry which is under complete government control

No, moron. The opposite of that is government not running the economy. Capitalism

I think we re at cross purposes here. Privatisation is where the government sells off public owned businesses to the private sector. thatcher was a big fan of this.
Two years ago the Royal Mail was privatised. Since then the drectors have seen their salaries explode and they are selling off all of their land to finance this. They are milking a monopoly.

Building prisons and public rail aren't privatization. The Government isn't selling prisons or the pubic rail. They are just contracting to privately owned companies.

You're creating a distinction without a difference. There is no market place for prisons or public transpiration. It's not capitalism in any way, shape or form.

Notice how you simpletons to prove that capitalism doesn't work go to markets where the only customer is government. That's just completely stupid

Tried to prove that free markets don't work...

... ended up proving that government doesn't work.

This saved us some time, good job!

 

[Crixus]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

They won’t leave. Why you ask? Well because they would be shot on the head for saying it anywhere else.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

He gave examples of government outsourcing government functions to a private business. That has zero to do with capitalism. It's still socialism. Companies that bid on government contracts are following government specs. They aren't making any free market decisions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Free markets are companies that create a better mouse trap. They aren't companies that build a mouse trap to government specifications.

Yes, actually making your own choice is ALWAYS better than a politician making your choice for you

Privatisation is the polar opposite of socialism. Its a free hit for private companies. If they screw up the state will always step back in and rescue them because these services cant be allowed to fail.

There are businesses that the state has no reason to be involved in.But there are also businesses that the state should either run or control very tightly.

Not only is that bull crap, but it's totally inane.

Socialism - government ownership of industry

Tommy - the opposite of that is private industry which is under complete government control

No, moron. The opposite of that is government not running the economy. Capitalism

I think we re at cross purposes here. Privatisation is where the government sells off public owned businesses to the private sector. thatcher was a big fan of this.
Two years ago the Royal Mail was privatised. Since then the drectors have seen their salaries explode and they are selling off all of their land to finance this. They are milking a monopoly.

Building prisons and public rail aren't privatization. The Government isn't selling prisons or the pubic rail. They are just contracting to privately owned companies.

You're creating a distinction without a difference. There is no market place for prisons or public transpiration. It's not capitalism in any way, shape or form.

Notice how you simpletons to prove that capitalism doesn't work go to markets where the only customer is government. That's just completely stupid

Except that people have made them capitalist. Public transport, trains too, started out as private ventures.

 

[EGR one]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

Capitalism is always better than socialism. Capitalism is the natural form of economics, from the simple trade to complex financial transactions. Socialism is a man made system with more flaws than benefits. In addition, socialism runs contrary to normal human behavior.

 

[kaz]

It's sad how someone can be born and grow up in America and not have a fucking clue what capitalism even is.

Capitalism is not government outsourcing to private companies. Capitalism is free markets. Prisons and public transportation are government functions. Just because government outsources it to contractors doesn't make it remotely capitalism.

You can't have competing free market prisons or public rail. That's why they are government functions.

You're proving how bad socialism is. Only government can do those things, yet as you point out government sucks at doing those too.

People like you are the ones who just completely and utterly leave me despondent as to the future of our country. How can you possibly know so little about what made your own country so great? It's truly sad

Youre also disappointing.
Private prisons are crony capitalism.
and they're up 100 percent under trump.

The definition of Trump administration: Cronyism is the practice of partiality in awarding jobs and other advantages to friends, family relatives or trusted colleagues,

Dude, it's better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.

Socialism is central economic planning, government.
Capitalism is distributed economic planning. AKA free markets, where market participants make their own decisions for their own interest. Capitalism is economic freedom. Suppliers, consumers, employers, employees, all market participants make their own choices.

Crony capitalism is when government chooses market winners. That is SOCIALISM, hombre. Think about it. But do a lot of stretching first. You don't want to hurt yourself, you're not used to it.

And prisons and mass transit are GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS. They are not crony capitalism. Government is the only customer. Government is not picking market winners like crony capitalism. It's just government outsourcing it's own job. Geez man.

It's just sad that you don't know crap about economics, not even the most basic concepts

Sigh, i suppose you need to read the actual definition.

Additionally, how private prisons are crony capitalism.

"I'm going to educate you. Look, here's Wikipedia."



Have you ever heard of these things called "dictionaries"?

Definition of SOCIALISM

Oh, hey, wow. Look at that. Kaz was right.

Dictionaries use only an abbreviated definition.
Such topics as this require encyclopedia.

To cover all the implementations and nuances, sure. But you can easily recognize the difference like a dog and a cat.

Socialism: Central / government planning
Capitalism: Distributed, free market economic planning. Consumers, suppliers, employers, employees are all free from government control to make our own best choices

Socialism comes in many forms. Full socialism with government ownership of industry, fascism where there are title head owners of industry but government dictates policy and approves decisions, crony capitalism where companies bribe government to pick market winners. But they are all socialism

 

[EGR one]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

Show me a socialist country that is better than the US.

And after you have shown it. What's keeping you here?

How many countries are actually, really, truly socialist?

Not many. Cuba might be the only one.

China claims to be Communist but is at best not that Socialist.

The USSR was Socialist to a large degree.

But then again we can find Capitalist countries that suck.

HOWEVER, this thread isn't a Socialist countries v. Capitalist countries thread.

It's that sometimes Capitalism isn't the best thing. That doesn't mean that full bang on Socialism is also the best.

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Any or that stuff working well?

 

[kaz]

He gave examples of government outsourcing government functions to a private business. That has zero to do with capitalism. It's still socialism. Companies that bid on government contracts are following government specs. They aren't making any free market decisions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Free markets are companies that create a better mouse trap. They aren't companies that build a mouse trap to government specifications.

Yes, actually making your own choice is ALWAYS better than a politician making your choice for you

Privatisation is the polar opposite of socialism. Its a free hit for private companies. If they screw up the state will always step back in and rescue them because these services cant be allowed to fail.

There are businesses that the state has no reason to be involved in.But there are also businesses that the state should either run or control very tightly.

Not only is that bull crap, but it's totally inane.

Socialism - government ownership of industry

Tommy - the opposite of that is private industry which is under complete government control

No, moron. The opposite of that is government not running the economy. Capitalism

I think we re at cross purposes here. Privatisation is where the government sells off public owned businesses to the private sector. thatcher was a big fan of this.
Two years ago the Royal Mail was privatised. Since then the drectors have seen their salaries explode and they are selling off all of their land to finance this. They are milking a monopoly.

Building prisons and public rail aren't privatization. The Government isn't selling prisons or the pubic rail. They are just contracting to privately owned companies.

You're creating a distinction without a difference. There is no market place for prisons or public transpiration. It's not capitalism in any way, shape or form.

Notice how you simpletons to prove that capitalism doesn't work go to markets where the only customer is government. That's just completely stupid

Except that people have made them capitalist. Public transport, trains too, started out as private ventures.

Again, you're trying to use examples where government is the only customer to try to prove that capitalism doesn't work, comrade. That's just inane.

Capitalism is free markets. What does an industry with only one customer have to do with free markets?

It's sad that an American can be as flamingly ignorant about what made your own company great.

And WTF, you kept getting mad when I kept calling you left, now you're Marxist left where government shouldn't deal with even completely subjugated privately owned businesses

 

[frigidweirdo]

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

Show me a socialist country that is better than the US.

And after you have shown it. What's keeping you here?

How many countries are actually, really, truly socialist?

Not many. Cuba might be the only one.

China claims to be Communist but is at best not that Socialist.

The USSR was Socialist to a large degree.

But then again we can find Capitalist countries that suck.

HOWEVER, this thread isn't a Socialist countries v. Capitalist countries thread.

It's that sometimes Capitalism isn't the best thing. That doesn't mean that full bang on Socialism is also the best.

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Any or that stuff working well?

Well, a capitalist company with poor CEOs or bosses, will be a poor company, won't it.

When the country is run by a bunch of fuckers elected by people who think who they vote for doesn't matter as long as they "win", then you get a shit system.

 

[EGR one]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

No he didn't. He showcased a failed business. That is not indicative of capitalism

The problem with capitalism is that it is better than anything else out there and has done more to lift people out of destitution and poverty than any other system bar none.

Well it sort of is the point. Capitalism,left to itself, is driven purely by greed. It will always screw the people unless the people keep it in check.

Nonsense! Capitalism works like a well built watch. All of the evils that people see is not capitalism, but perversions of capitalism. Greedy people attempting to twist the system in their favor. Often, government is complicit in that twisting.

Capitalism distributes goods and services through billions of individual transactions, and does a damn good job of seeing that just about anything one wants to purchase is available at just about everyplace and at every time.

There isn't a bureaucrat, or group of bureaucrats, that has the capacity to even come close to the free market in the efficient distribution of goods and services.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

No he didn't. He showcased a failed business. That is not indicative of capitalism

The problem with capitalism is that it is better than anything else out there and has done more to lift people out of destitution and poverty than any other system bar none.

Well it sort of is the point. Capitalism,left to itself, is driven purely by greed. It will always screw the people unless the people keep it in check.

Nonsense! Capitalism works like a well built watch. All of the evils that people see is not capitalism, but perversions of capitalism. Greedy people attempting to twist the system in their favor. Often, government is complicit in that twisting.

Capitalism distributes goods and services through billions of individual transactions, and does a damn good job of seeing that just about anything one wants to purchase is available at just about everyplace and at every time.

There isn't a bureaucrat, or group of bureaucrats, that has the capacity to even come close to the free market in the efficient distribution of goods and services.

A well built watch that goes too fast sometimes and at other times too slow? Hmmmmmmmm

 

[EGR one]

Show me a socialist country that is better than the US.

And after you have shown it. What's keeping you here?

How many countries are actually, really, truly socialist?

Not many. Cuba might be the only one.

China claims to be Communist but is at best not that Socialist.

The USSR was Socialist to a large degree.

But then again we can find Capitalist countries that suck.

HOWEVER, this thread isn't a Socialist countries v. Capitalist countries thread.

It's that sometimes Capitalism isn't the best thing. That doesn't mean that full bang on Socialism is also the best.

Not many, because it has been the observation that socialism is a catastrophic failure everywhere where it's been tried. Yet you are cheering for it here, because you are a jackass.

America is part socialist. Pretty much everywhere is.
You have medicaid,welfare,schools,libraries and stuff.

Any or that stuff working well?

Well, a capitalist company with poor CEOs or bosses, will be a poor company, won't it.

When the country is run by a bunch of fuckers elected by people who think who they vote for doesn't matter as long as they "win", then you get a shit system.

A capitalist company with poor leaders will not be in business long. Government is forever, good or bad.

 

[Norman]

Capitalism is always better than Venezuela. Come back to me when you don't have access to toilet paper and have to eat the family pets if not children to survive.

Also, feel free to get the fck out of our nation. This nation is capitalist, read the constitution. There are plenty of shit holes to choose from for you. Instead of wanting to make the country in your miserable sorry ass image, go to a country that already is that way.

Capitalism is not always better. He has given you examples of that. Why do you feel the need to show how uncouth you are ?

No he didn't. He showcased a failed business. That is not indicative of capitalism

The problem with capitalism is that it is better than anything else out there and has done more to lift people out of destitution and poverty than any other system bar none.

Well it sort of is the point. Capitalism,left to itself, is driven purely by greed. It will always screw the people unless the people keep it in check.

Nonsense! Capitalism works like a well built watch. All of the evils that people see is not capitalism, but perversions of capitalism. Greedy people attempting to twist the system in their favor. Often, government is complicit in that twisting.

Capitalism distributes goods and services through billions of individual transactions, and does a damn good job of seeing that just about anything one wants to purchase is available at just about everyplace and at every time.

There isn't a bureaucrat, or group of bureaucrats, that has the capacity to even come close to the free market in the efficient distribution of goods and services.

What does capitalism produce for the leftists here who can not for the life of them contribute anything positive to the society? What is in it for them when their market value is zero?