Catholics who think abortion should be legal are relying too much on God's mercy...

[hobelim]

According to ancient philosophy, "intelligence" is like a commodity of "knowledge" which can be instilled into a mind.

Don't you believe that intelligence increases when knowledge is instilled into a mind?

Like I have been trying to show, those ancient goat herders and first century peasants were far more ethical, dedicated, intelligent and knowledgeable about the mysteries of the invisible soul of man than anyone has ever imagined.

 

[Blackrook]

I can't show you what an abortion looks like because it's against the rules of this forum.

If I could show you, maybe I could convince you how wrong it is, because seeing a picture of an abortion is all it took to convince me.

I urge you to educate yourself, go to another website, and look at photographs of unborn babies who have been killed in an abortion.

Once you have done that, you can then return to this thread and give me all your fancy arguments why this barbaric cruelty should be allowed.

 

[Meriweather]

We don't know that, neither religiously, nor philosophically, nor scientifically.

If you can speak for God, since the Bible is completely silent about abortion, then you are going to need to claim to be a face to face prophet with God like Moses, Elijah, Samuel, Jesus (the Son Of God), Peter, James, John, Mathew, Jude, and St. Paul were and also tell us where did you see the light and hear the voice of Jesus like Paul did?

We do know it. One of God's commandments specifically say, "Thou shalt not kill." Moses testifies to this. Would we say about any other person who kills another, "They have a right to privacy"? Abortion is killing, it is not "privacy." Again, making abortion (a killing act) an act of "privacy" is disingenuous and deceptive. Scripture also tells us not to lead others into sin, and those who do will be least.

 

[Slade3200]

Catholics who correctly respect and defend a woman’s right to privacy can do so consistent with their faith, and have nothing for fear from their ‘god.’

Call it what it is. Those who who defend women killing the unborn probably have reason to tremble when coming face-to-face with God. Calling "killing the unborn" a "right to privacy" is disingenuous, not to mention deceptive.

I have to be real for a minute... We are all just biological organisms living on this planet. When a sperm meets an egg it is just a mass of cells feeding off the mother reaching development. Religion exists to answer the questions that we all ask "Where do we come from?" and "Where do we go when we die?" All religions are man made. They exist to answer those questions and give one or multiple of the following to believers: security, comfort, accountability, moral guidelines, retribution, a defined higher power, a sense of community, or in the worst cases control and power over a group of people.

I'm happy for those of you who find comfort within your religion, that is a personal choice of yours. But the reality is we are all just conscious cells and nobody really knows the answers to the above questions. If you really think you do, if you really think the answers are written in a magic book that is better than all the other magic books then you are fooling yourself.

If you truly want to protect life then don't be a hypocrite about it. You should be demonizing sport hunting, the slaughter of cows for a big mac, smashing that spider on your wall, or killing that gopher thats eating your garden. After all, what makes us better than any other form of life?

 

[hobelim]

We do know it. One of God's commandments specifically say, "Thou shalt not kill." Moses testifies to this. Would we say about any other person who kills another, "They have a right to privacy"? Abortion is killing, it is not "privacy." Again, making abortion (a killing act) an act of "privacy" is disingenuous and deceptive. Scripture also tells us not to lead others into sin, and those who do will be least.

When Jesus said that Satan was "a murderer from the beginning.", he was referring to the story of adam and eve where the talking serpent deceived them into defying the commands of God even after they were told in no uncertain terms that they would surely die in the very day that they ate of the forbidden fruit.

This shows that in the eyes of God a murderer is the person who teaches others to set aside the commands of God, the penalty being death. Kind of exactly like those who teach others that its really alright to get down on your knees before the work of human hands and they will not die but instead their eyes will be opened, they will receive eternal life, and become like God.


And you are right that Jesus said that those who set aside the divine commands and teach others to do the same will be called the least in the kingdom of God.


To understand what Jesus mean by saying "the least", see genesis 3:14.

 

[aris2chat]

Catholics who correctly respect and defend a woman’s right to privacy can do so consistent with their faith, and have nothing for fear from their ‘god.’

Call it what it is. Those who who defend women killing the unborn probably have reason to tremble when coming face-to-face with God. Calling "killing the unborn" a "right to privacy" is disingenuous, not to mention deceptive.

Privacy, how do you know they "killed" an embryo or fetus and not a miscarriage?
How do you know the dangers or circumstances, or reasons? How do you know the pregnancy was not a threat to the woman, physically or mentally? How do you know she was even pregnant and did not have a D&C for medical reasons?

Till it is born, it is not a separate living entity or life. If a woman is not willing to share her body for nine months with an invader, why should should be forced to? If she is not able or willing to have her body distorted or suffer the symptoms and side effects, why should she? If her life is threatened, why should she not be allowed treatment?

 

[aris2chat]

We do know it. One of God's commandments specifically say, "Thou shalt not kill." Moses testifies to this. Would we say about any other person who kills another, "They have a right to privacy"? Abortion is killing, it is not "privacy." Again, making abortion (a killing act) an act of "privacy" is disingenuous and deceptive. Scripture also tells us not to lead others into sin, and those who do will be least.

When Jesus said that Satan was "a murderer from the beginning.", he was referring to the story of adam and eve where the talking serpent deceived them into defying the commands of God even after they were told in no uncertain terms that they would surely die in the very day that they ate of the forbidden fruit.

This shows that in the eyes of God a murderer is the person who teaches others to set aside the commands of God, the penalty being death. Kind of exactly like those who teach others that its really alright to get down on your knees before the work of human hands and they will not die but instead their eyes will be opened, they will receive eternal life, and become like God.


And you are right that Jesus said that those who set aside the divine commands and teach others to do the same will be called the least in the kingdom of God.


To understand what Jesus mean by saying "the least", see genesis 3:14.

Satan was god's devoted angel long before mankind existed. So either Jesus lied or the bible did........or both

 

[aris2chat]

It is a medical privacy issue. No one has a right to know of interfere in a woman's medical treatment or choices about her body.
She cannot be forced to to carry a fetus till the last trimester but if there are medical reason the pregnancy can be terminated when her health make the pregnancy a problem for her care and needs.

If it is a moral issue for you, don't' get an abortion. For those of other faiths and situations, they have a legal option to choose what is best for them.

Rowe/wade is based on medical privacy and that will not change. Medical records, visits with doctor and treatment are not subject to public knowledge.

None of anyone's business except the woman.

If you don't have a right to know, you don't have a right to judge.

If you disapprove, that is your choice for yourself alone.

Many religions permit or have no opinion on abortion. in this country we have a separation between church and state. Religion is a personal choice, it does not set our laws. Even in catholic Italy abortion have been legal for 40 yrs, except in vatican city. Legal in most of the world except south american and a couple of other countries.

These are all the usual bullshit arguments for legalized abortion but please explain why you need to chop up and kill 3000 unborn babies a day, and sell their body parts to science. Every time you get on this forum and spread this nonsense you put the moral burden of all those murders on your soul, since those who advocate for a murder are just as guilty as those who commit the murder, or procure it. Your soul is in a state of mortal sin, and if you die without repenting your sin, you will certainly go to hell for all eternity. You need to repent, and then your penance will be to spend the rest of your life telling people why abortion is morally wrong and should not be legal. The sooner you get on this, the better for you. Your debt is enormous, in the Charles Dicken's story A Christmas Carol, you have built a chain miles long and you add more links every day.

Man, you gotta stop drinking the coolaid if you want people to take you seriously. You can make a much better argument than the "your going to hell" talk. It means nothing to people who do not believe in the teachings of the Bible

In case you didn't notice, this thread is directed at Catholics, not "people who do not believe in the teachings of the Bible."

People who do not believe in the teachings of the Bible cannot be saved, no matter what I say or do. I'm not even trying to save you. And that's because your sins will not be forgiven.

So shove off and find your own thread to act all bitchy in.

So why don't you want the opinions of those raised in the church? You think Catholics in Middle East, Europe or the US don't disagree with your personal opinions or know more than you think you do?

 

[yiostheoy]

We don't know that, neither religiously, nor philosophically, nor scientifically.

If you can speak for God, since the Bible is completely silent about abortion, then you are going to need to claim to be a face to face prophet with God like Moses, Elijah, Samuel, Jesus (the Son Of God), Peter, James, John, Mathew, Jude, and St. Paul were and also tell us where did you see the light and hear the voice of Jesus like Paul did?

We do know it. One of God's commandments specifically say, "Thou shalt not kill." Moses testifies to this. Would we say about any other person who kills another, "They have a right to privacy"? Abortion is killing, it is not "privacy." Again, making abortion (a killing act) an act of "privacy" is disingenuous and deceptive. Scripture also tells us not to lead others into sin, and those who do will be least.

The Hebrew commandment pertains to adults regarding bludgeoning. It is specifically speaking about homicides of lying in wait. It has nothing to do with abortion.

Your fallacy is the affirmation of the consequent.

Stop using fallacies in your statements or I will put you on the ignore list.

Here are the fallacies so you can review them:

List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[yiostheoy]

Catholics who correctly respect and defend a woman’s right to privacy can do so consistent with their faith, and have nothing for fear from their ‘god.’

Call it what it is. Those who who defend women killing the unborn probably have reason to tremble when coming face-to-face with God. Calling "killing the unborn" a "right to privacy" is disingenuous, not to mention deceptive.

I have to be real for a minute... We are all just biological organisms living on this planet. When a sperm meets an egg it is just a mass of cells feeding off the mother reaching development. Religion exists to answer the questions that we all ask "Where do we come from?" and "Where do we go when we die?" All religions are man made. They exist to answer those questions and give one or multiple of the following to believers: security, comfort, accountability, moral guidelines, retribution, a defined higher power, a sense of community, or in the worst cases control and power over a group of people.

I'm happy for those of you who find comfort within your religion, that is a personal choice of yours. But the reality is we are all just conscious cells and nobody really knows the answers to the above questions. If you really think you do, if you really think the answers are written in a magic book that is better than all the other magic books then you are fooling yourself.

If you truly want to protect life then don't be a hypocrite about it. You should be demonizing sport hunting, the slaughter of cows for a big mac, smashing that spider on your wall, or killing that gopher thats eating your garden. After all, what makes us better than any other form of life?

Cows do not go into hamburger meat. Those are steers. Not cows.

Sport hunting is used to regulate deer herds, pig herds, elk herds, etc. If you only meant trophy hunting that is a different story so your speech and writing needs to become more precise.

My cat kills and eats gophers. Always has. Always will.

I do catch and release for spiders and flies. But I kill mosquitoes, ticks, and fleas.

 

[yiostheoy]

I can't show you what an abortion looks like because it's against the rules of this forum.

If I could show you, maybe I could convince you how wrong it is, because seeing a picture of an abortion is all it took to convince me.

I urge you to educate yourself, go to another website, and look at photographs of unborn babies who have been killed in an abortion.

Once you have done that, you can then return to this thread and give me all your fancy arguments why this barbaric cruelty should be allowed.

fallacy of emotional argument.

List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Vastator]

A self proclaimed mouthpiece from the Baal cult giving moral guidance... This is too rich. I gotta watch this thread.

 

[Slade3200]

Catholics who correctly respect and defend a woman’s right to privacy can do so consistent with their faith, and have nothing for fear from their ‘god.’

Call it what it is. Those who who defend women killing the unborn probably have reason to tremble when coming face-to-face with God. Calling "killing the unborn" a "right to privacy" is disingenuous, not to mention deceptive.

I have to be real for a minute... We are all just biological organisms living on this planet. When a sperm meets an egg it is just a mass of cells feeding off the mother reaching development. Religion exists to answer the questions that we all ask "Where do we come from?" and "Where do we go when we die?" All religions are man made. They exist to answer those questions and give one or multiple of the following to believers: security, comfort, accountability, moral guidelines, retribution, a defined higher power, a sense of community, or in the worst cases control and power over a group of people.

I'm happy for those of you who find comfort within your religion, that is a personal choice of yours. But the reality is we are all just conscious cells and nobody really knows the answers to the above questions. If you really think you do, if you really think the answers are written in a magic book that is better than all the other magic books then you are fooling yourself.

If you truly want to protect life then don't be a hypocrite about it. You should be demonizing sport hunting, the slaughter of cows for a big mac, smashing that spider on your wall, or killing that gopher thats eating your garden. After all, what makes us better than any other form of life?

Cows do not go into hamburger meat. Those are steers. Not cows.

Sport hunting is used to regulate deer herds, pig herds, elk herds, etc. If you only meant trophy hunting that is a different story so your speech and writing needs to become more precise.

My cat kills and eats gophers. Always has. Always will.

I do catch and release for spiders and flies. But I kill mosquitoes, ticks, and fleas.

Thanks for the lesson... Has nothing to do with my point

 

[Votto]

Here is an inspiring story of a priest back during the Nazi era.

Franz was no St. Thérèse. He was the illegitimate child of a maidservant in a tiny village in Upper Austria. His mother married when Franz was 10.

Franz was a wild child. He was a womanizer, and even had a daughter born out of wedlock. Gordan Zahn, whose book In Solitary Witness is the definitive work on Jagerstatter’s life, discovered that Jagerstatter was exiled from his community for several years, during which time he stopped attending Mass.

However, Jagerstatter received a passable education in the village’s one-room school schoolhouse before becoming a farmer. Then he met his wife.

How Marriage Changed His Life

Franz and Franziska Jagerstatter after they returned from Rome, probably in April or May 1936. This is their wedding photograph./Styria Verlag. Used with permission.
He married Franziska Schwaninger on Holy Thursday 1936. On their honeymoon, they received a papal blessing from Pope Pius XI.

Franziska’s effect on her husband was subtle but persistent. Jagerstatter became the sexton of the village Church, meaning he assisted at all the liturgies and maintained the building. This led to him becoming a daily communicant. He began to memorize the Bible and learn the lives of the saints. In fact, he once told his wife, “I could have never imagined that being married could be so wonderful.”

A Sad Hour for the Christian Faith

Three of Franz Jagerstatter’s four children: Maria, Louisi and Rosi./Styria Verlag. Used with permission
Jagerstatter and Franziska had three girls together, and remained close to his other daughter. In 1938, around the time their eldest daughter was born, Germans invaded Austria.

The Catholic Church in Austria had warned against Nazism for years. Catholics in Germany were facing severe restrictions, including the prohibition of Mass outside of Sundays, even for the holiest solemnities and feast days. Jagerstatter’s own pastor had been jailed for delivering an anti-Nazi sermon. His bishop had dictated an anti-Nazi letter to be read in all the parishes several years earlier. That same bishop would declare, “It is impossible to be both a good Catholic and a true Nazi.” He was later replaced with a bishop who spoke more cautiously.

The same pope who had blessed Jagerstatter’s marriage, Pope Pius XI, published the encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge in which he warned that national socialism was more dangerous than communism.

Buoyed by these witnesses, Jagerstatter was still the only person in his whole town to disavow Anschluss, or the German annexation of Austria. He was dismayed to see many Catholics support the Nazis. One cardinal even demanded that all parishes fly the Nazi flag from their churches on Hitler’s birthday.

“I believe there could scarcely be a sadder hour for the true Christian faith in our country,” he wrote.


Franz Jagerstatter refused to support the Nazis, despite the pressure his village placed on him./Styria Verlag. Used with permission
The prevailing idea at the time was that a peasant layman should do what his country told him to do. By this obedience, the people who made the decisions, and not the peasant, would hold moral responsibility for the actions. But Franz couldn’t reconcile that worldview with the fact that he had a freewill, and that he could not call himself a disciple if he bowed that will to a movement he viewed as satanic. He would not fight for the Nazis.

At first it seemed that being a farmer would keep him from fighting since Germany’s massive army required equally massive amounts of food. Unfortunately, in 1943 the need for fighters grew, and Jagerstatter was called to active duty. He went to the induction center, where he announced that he would not fight. He was summarily carted to the military prison at Linz to learn his fate.

“I am convinced it is best that I speak the truth, even if it costs me my life,” he wrote.

Saints Have Saints for Friends
Friends, family and even the local bishop visited Jagerstatter in prison, trying to convince him to fight. None of these visitors gave him a convincing argument against his moral convictions about conscientious objection. Instead, they all tried to convince him that God would not hold him accountable for doing what his state ordered. Jagerstatter was unconvinced.

“Since the death of Christ, almost every century has seen the persecution of Christians; there have always been heroes and martyrs who gave their lives — often in horrible ways — for Christ and their faith. If we hope to reach our goal someday, then we, too, must become heroes of the faith,” he said.


The first page of Franz’s last essay, written while he was in prison. The first sentence reads, “Now I’ll write down a few words as they come to me from my heart. Although I am writing them with my hands in chains, this is still much better than if my will were in chains.”/Styria Verlag. Used with permission
His wife accepted his need to follow his conscience. He was also part of a movement of Catholic martyrs who gave their life to fight the Nazis.

St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein) had died the previous August in Auschwitz, almost a year to the day after St. Maximillian Kolbe. Blessed Marcel Callo was just beginning the undercover Catholic activities in his forced labor camp that would eventually lead to his 1945 martyrdom for being “too Catholic.”

Most impressively, Jagerstatter spent May to August of 1943 in the same prison as the renowned Lutheran pastor and martyr Dietrich Bonhoeffer. There is not evidence that the two men ever met, or even realized they shared a prison with someone so similar in conviction. Jagerstatter was able to learn, though, of a priest who had been martyred in the same prison for the exact reasons he and so many others shared.

That conviction ultimately cost him his life. He was taken to Berlin, where he was sentenced to death for sedition. His last recorded words before he met the guillotine were, ”I am completely bound in inner union with the Lord.”

<img
Easter 1943: Franz Jagerstatter’s daughters; Loisi, Rosi, and Maria, holding a sign that reads, “Dear Father, come [home] soon.” Franz was in jail in Linz and was later executed./Styria Verlag. Used with permission
The Church agreed.


During Vatican II, Jagerstatter’s life helped shape the section of Gaudium et Spes that talks about conscientious objectors to war. He was beatified 50 years after his death. His daughters, grandchildren and great-grandchildren attended the ceremony.

Bl. Franz Jagerstatter, please pray for us!

 

[Nosmo King]

They won't get it.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

 

[Votto]

He was dismayed to see many Catholics support the Nazis. One cardinal even demanded that all parishes fly the Nazi flag from their churches on Hitler’s birthday.

“I believe there could scarcely be a sadder hour for the true Christian faith in our country,” he wrote.

That pretty much sums it up, even for today as millions of children continue to be killed.

What we do know is that the road is narrow to eternal life, but the other is broad.

To get Obamacare passed, Obama had to compromise with a few Dims who did not like the idea of tax funded abortions, so they left it out. However, Hillary has vowed to circle back and make abortions free for all, courtesy of taxpayers.

If you have any qualms about abortion being murder, there is no room for you in the democrat party

 

[yiostheoy]

Catholics who correctly respect and defend a woman’s right to privacy can do so consistent with their faith, and have nothing for fear from their ‘god.’

Call it what it is. Those who who defend women killing the unborn probably have reason to tremble when coming face-to-face with God. Calling "killing the unborn" a "right to privacy" is disingenuous, not to mention deceptive.

I have to be real for a minute... We are all just biological organisms living on this planet. When a sperm meets an egg it is just a mass of cells feeding off the mother reaching development. Religion exists to answer the questions that we all ask "Where do we come from?" and "Where do we go when we die?" All religions are man made. They exist to answer those questions and give one or multiple of the following to believers: security, comfort, accountability, moral guidelines, retribution, a defined higher power, a sense of community, or in the worst cases control and power over a group of people.

I'm happy for those of you who find comfort within your religion, that is a personal choice of yours. But the reality is we are all just conscious cells and nobody really knows the answers to the above questions. If you really think you do, if you really think the answers are written in a magic book that is better than all the other magic books then you are fooling yourself.

If you truly want to protect life then don't be a hypocrite about it. You should be demonizing sport hunting, the slaughter of cows for a big mac, smashing that spider on your wall, or killing that gopher thats eating your garden. After all, what makes us better than any other form of life?

Cows do not go into hamburger meat. Those are steers. Not cows.

Sport hunting is used to regulate deer herds, pig herds, elk herds, etc. If you only meant trophy hunting that is a different story so your speech and writing needs to become more precise.

My cat kills and eats gophers. Always has. Always will.

I do catch and release for spiders and flies. But I kill mosquitoes, ticks, and fleas.

Thanks for the lesson... Has nothing to do with my point

Well your facts are fokked up and that makes your opinions look fokked up too.

Conclusion is you are all fokked up. Get it now?

 

[yiostheoy]

According to ancient philosophy, "intelligence" is like a commodity of "knowledge" which can be instilled into a mind.

Don't you believe that intelligence increases when knowledge is instilled into a mind?

Like I have been trying to show, those ancient goat herders and first century peasants were far more ethical, dedicated, intelligent and knowledgeable about the mysteries of the invisible soul of man than anyone has ever imagined.

Start a new thread in Philosophy.

 

[guno]

He was dismayed to see many Catholics support the Nazis. One cardinal even demanded that all parishes fly the Nazi flag from their churches on Hitler’s birthday.

“I believe there could scarcely be a sadder hour for the true Christian faith in our country,” he wrote.

That pretty much sums it up, even for today as millions of children continue to be killed.

What we do know is that the road is narrow to eternal life, but the other is broad.

To get Obamacare passed, Obama had to compromise with a few Dims who did not like the idea of tax funded abortions, so they left it out. However, Hillary has vowed to circle back and make abortions free for all, courtesy of taxpayers.

and hitler was never excommunicated by that outfit known as the catholic church, the vatican also helped nazis escape to South America after WWII

Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape
Research shows how travel documents ended up in hands of the likes of Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie in the postwar chaos

Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape

 

[Slade3200]

Catholics who correctly respect and defend a woman’s right to privacy can do so consistent with their faith, and have nothing for fear from their ‘god.’

Call it what it is. Those who who defend women killing the unborn probably have reason to tremble when coming face-to-face with God. Calling "killing the unborn" a "right to privacy" is disingenuous, not to mention deceptive.

I have to be real for a minute... We are all just biological organisms living on this planet. When a sperm meets an egg it is just a mass of cells feeding off the mother reaching development. Religion exists to answer the questions that we all ask "Where do we come from?" and "Where do we go when we die?" All religions are man made. They exist to answer those questions and give one or multiple of the following to believers: security, comfort, accountability, moral guidelines, retribution, a defined higher power, a sense of community, or in the worst cases control and power over a group of people.

I'm happy for those of you who find comfort within your religion, that is a personal choice of yours. But the reality is we are all just conscious cells and nobody really knows the answers to the above questions. If you really think you do, if you really think the answers are written in a magic book that is better than all the other magic books then you are fooling yourself.

If you truly want to protect life then don't be a hypocrite about it. You should be demonizing sport hunting, the slaughter of cows for a big mac, smashing that spider on your wall, or killing that gopher thats eating your garden. After all, what makes us better than any other form of life?

Cows do not go into hamburger meat. Those are steers. Not cows.

Sport hunting is used to regulate deer herds, pig herds, elk herds, etc. If you only meant trophy hunting that is a different story so your speech and writing needs to become more precise.

My cat kills and eats gophers. Always has. Always will.

I do catch and release for spiders and flies. But I kill mosquitoes, ticks, and fleas.

Thanks for the lesson... Has nothing to do with my point

Well your facts are fokked up and that makes your opinions look fokked up too.

Conclusion is you are all fokked up. Get it now?

Got it