CBO: Stimulus saved between 5 to 25 million jobs

[Wiseacre]

This whole thread is a great example of how people need to spin things to match the view of the world they present in order to get support from voters who look ot others for guidance.

The left wants everyone to think President Obama is doing a great job because they need him to keep pushing his agenda of "spreading he wealth". In other words, this is an active agenda to gain cash or assets from others using the government.

Now why does the right care (and believe me, they (or we as I am a RWer) they should care) ?

Within the context of the thread, it's about spending our money wisely, and only on functions the gov't should perform. Many RWers believe the gov't spent that stimulus bill money ineffectively, and in some part for political rather than economic reasons. And in some cases (like Solyndra) a great deal of money as wasted. Why shouldn't we all be po'ed about that?

 

[Freedomlover]

This is pure hogwash! there is no legitimate way to quantify "saved" jobs.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The Stimulus kept us in Depression

Exactly, it just prolonged our pain.

this ignorance is baffling. were it not for the stimulus, we would have went into a depression worse than the major depression, but people tend to reject this reality to uphold their hatred of the left. it is childish.

Your argument is, that which there is no evidence would have happened, was prevented by record deficit spending which is clearly eveident is sending us off into the abyss?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

What about the fact that many stores opened earlier than last year? Might've skewed the data a bit.

The real question will be whether the trend continues; we got a nice bump to start the holiday retail season, but will we see a dropoff as we get closer to Xmas compared to last year?

And - what's going to happen in January when the bills come due?

The trend will continue.

You can only hold back demand for so long.

Much like those foreclosures rates for the last 3 months, I guess there is no short supply of outstanding mortagage debt the banks need to deal with.

 

[Listening]

This whole thread is a great example of how people need to spin things to match the view of the world they present in order to get support from voters who look ot others for guidance.

The left wants everyone to think President Obama is doing a great job because they need him to keep pushing his agenda of "spreading he wealth". In other words, this is an active agenda to gain cash or assets from others using the government.

Now why does the right care (and believe me, they (or we as I am a RWer) they should care) ?

Within the context of the thread, it's about spending our money wisely, and only on functions the gov't should perform. Many RWers believe the gov't spent that stimulus bill money ineffectively, and in some part for political rather than economic reasons. And in some cases (like Solyndra) a great deal of money as wasted. Why shouldn't we all be po'ed about that?

And there you have it.

Well said.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

When you take the time to look at the nation debt and what was budgeted by the Federal Government, Obama has outspent President George W. Bush.

Sept 30, 2001 The National Debt stood at $5.8 Trillion
Following the end of President George W. Bush's term in Sept 30, 2009 the National Debt was $11.9 Trillion (approx $6 Trillion in 8 years). Currently our national debt stands at $15 Trillion, after just 3 years President Obama has increased the debt by $4 Trillion.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

Funding for Fiscal Year 2008
The President’s budget proposal for 2008, which was submitted in February, included a request for $137 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and for the war on terrorism; $5 billion for establishing, training, and equipping indigenous security forces in Iraq and Afghanistan; and $3 billion for related diplomatic operations and foreign aid.

If the requested amount is appropriated, the total
amount of funding specifically appropriated since 2001 for all operations in the
war on terrorism would reach $798 billion. (Including the estimated $2 billion that
VA has spent from its regular appropriations and the nearly $1 billion that CBO
estimates will be spent in 2008 would bring total funding for the war over the
2001–2008 period to $801 billion.)

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/86xx/doc8690/10-24-CostOfWar_Testimony.pdf

Compare that to the 2009 stimulus bill.

Congress‘ chief scorekeeper has again raised the cost estimate of President Obama’s two-year-old economic-stimulus program, calculating it will end up costing taxpayers $821 billion — or $34 billion more than originally projected

CBO raises its stimulus cost estimate, again - Washington Times

Just some real facts for Lakhota (with links), when you break it all down into specifics.

 

[Chris]

When an economy was in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

So a stimulus was needed.

The economy was destroyed by Phil Gramm's deregulation of Wall Street.

Bush started two unfunded wars and an unfunded trillion dollar drug program.

So 93% of the debt can be atributed to the Republicans.

Click the link below to view the numbers...

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[Listening]

When an economy was in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

So a stimulus was needed.

The economy was destroyed by Phil Gramm's deregulation of Wall Street.

Bush started two unfunded wars and an unfunded trillion dollar drug program.

So 93% of the debt can be atributed to the Republicans.

Click the link below to view the numbers...

ReaganBushDebt.org

HORSECRAP !

Or in your case: INK

The economy was not in a deflationary spiral. The houseing bubble burst. There is a huge difference. And the economy was not "destroyed".

And the government is not the demand of last resort. There is plety of argument against governments involvement (i.e. FDR's meddling extended the Depression).

Is this like you doing your equivalent of prayer beads every night.

Why would we need to click to see the numbers...you post them all the time. But these fall in the category of data which has to be explained and you have NEVER explained any of it in a way that at all fits with reality.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

When an economy was in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

So a stimulus was needed.

Yes I can see where the Federal Government simply pumping more money into a situation, in hopes things will just get "better", has always been the best answer when you fail to address or uncover "the problem".

Taxpayers take on trillions in risk in Fannie, Freddie takeover

(2008) WASHINGTON — The unprecedented federal takeover of mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae announced on Sunday is a bomld attempt to stabilize financial markets and restore the faltering housing market, but it thrusts trillions of dollars of risk directly onto taxpayers' shoulders.

"You can call it a bailout, you can call it a safety net or you can call it a rescue package, but the bottom line is the American taxpayer is left footing the bill," says Richard Yamarone, director of economic research at Argus Research.


Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae combined own or guarantee $5.4 trillion in outstanding mortgage debt. The government's decision to place both agencies into a conservatorship — in essence, taking on responsibility for that debt by wresting control from the corporations — is an historic move.


The Mortgage Bankers Association reported Friday that more than 4 million homeowners, or 9% of those with mortgages, were delinquent by at least one payment or in foreclosure at the end of June. It's the highest rate ever, the MBA says.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-09-07-fannie-freddie-plan_N.htm

 

[Listening]

When an economy was in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

So a stimulus was needed.

Yes I can see where the Federal Government simply pumping more money into a situation, in hopes things will just get "better", has always been the best answer when you fail to address or uncover "the problem".

So far things have always gotten better, even in spite of the government.

I have far more faith in the American people than I do in the morons they put in federal office (and yes I realize they elect them....but anymore I am suspicious of the process).

But a broken clock is right twice a day and liberals will ignore all the 1438 minutes of the day when things are off and only pay attention to the 2 (if it justifies their position).

 

[Oldstyle]

When an economy was in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

So a stimulus was needed.

The economy was destroyed by Phil Gramm's deregulation of Wall Street.

Bush started two unfunded wars and an unfunded trillion dollar drug program.

So 93% of the debt can be atributed to the Republicans.

Click the link below to view the numbers...

ReaganBushDebt.org

When you say a stimulus was needed, Chris...do you not comprehend that stimulus might have taken many different forms OTHER than what Obama and the Democrats gave us? They chose to waste billions of our tax dollars on a smorgasbord of liberal pork. That didn't stimulate the economy and the proof of that is obvious in that they are back looking for more money to keep unemployment from spiking again.

 

[Listening]

When an economy was in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

So a stimulus was needed.

The economy was destroyed by Phil Gramm's deregulation of Wall Street.

Bush started two unfunded wars and an unfunded trillion dollar drug program.

So 93% of the debt can be atributed to the Republicans.

Click the link below to view the numbers...

ReaganBushDebt.org

When you say a stimulus was needed, Chris...do you not comprehend that stimulus might have taken many different forms OTHER than what Obama and the Democrats gave us? They chose to waste billions of our tax dollars on a smorgasbord of liberal pork. That didn't stimulate the economy and the proof of that is obvious in that they are back looking for more money to keep unemployment from spiking again.

You are missing the point !

If President Obama did it, IT WAS THE BEST THING TO DO....BY DEFINITION.

 

[frazzledgear]

President Barack Obama’s 2009 economic stimulus bill which was passed in Congress during the first month of his Administration and which received opposition from all but three Congressional Republicans has thus far resulted in the employment for 5 million or more Americans according to the Congressional Budget Office’s 2011 third quarter ARRA accounting report released on Tuesday.

“The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act” (ARRA) was passed and enacted in February of 2009 and contained approximately $800 billion in stimulus programs, tax cuts and tax incentives to help the economy, which at the time was losing almost one million jobs a month.

In the CBO report, “Estimated Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act on Employment and Economic Output from July 2011 Through September 2011,” a breakdown by year shows that the ARRA created or saved from 5 million to 25.4 million jobs from March 2009 through September 2011, as follows:

2009:a low estimate of .9 million jobs to a high estimate of 3.6 million jobs
2010:a low estimate of 2.6 million jobs to a high estimate of 13.2 million jobs
2011:a low estimate of 1.5 million jobs to a high estimate of 8.6 million jobs

In addition, according to the CBO, the stimulus is expected to help create or save another .3million to 2 million jobs in the fourth quarter of 2011, another .8 million to 4.6 million jobs in 2012.

CBO states Obama economic stimulus created or saved 5 million or more jobs - National liberal | Examiner.com

Proof positive the CBO is a highly partisan social engineering pack of liars. Every single HONEST economist admitted up front and right off the bat there is absolutely NO legitimate way to determine or give any kind of honest estimate that ANY jobs were saved by that FAILED STIMULUS. The idea that the number of "jobs SAVED" can even be determined, legitimately measured, even estimated or is even a legitimate argument to make - is POLITICAL BULLSHIT. This is nothing but Democrats trying to save Obama's ass by running on the idiotic platform of "well, things coulda been worse, right?" Real winner of a strategy so let's see if Dems let a Republican get away with that one in the future, huh. If they can't point to THE jobs that were saved -its all PRETEND. I can claim ANYTHING I want if I don't have to PROVE IT. YOU can't prove I just made it up if I don't have to prove it -see how that works out SO nicely for me? That is what the CBO is doing here -it is making a lying ass claim it absolutely cannot back up or prove and every economist KNOWS IT and most of them have admitted it is what they are doing. But we do know how much it cost to "create" the jobs they claimed were "created" as a result of this bill -and it was a horrible joke they don't want to even discuss now. Oh that's different? So let's change the discussion to job SAVING instead of job CREATION even though this was sold as a job CREATING bill in the first place? Government only fucked up on job CREATION with this bill but on job SAVING, it was a MONSTER saving million and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of jobs? Oh right. Sure.

Let's keep it real -it is a lying ass phony discussion by turning it into one they CAN"T PROVE. And that means you can't prove it didn't happen either -forgetting the FACT, it is actually incumbent upon those making such a claim to prove it in the first place. The burden never shifts to me to prove it didn't happen. They can't prove any jobs were saved, much less the bullshit claim that a never ending list of MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS more still being miraculously saved even NOW as the result of this bill -especially when there is NO way to measure "jobs saved" in the first place. So that is proof their claim is actually built on nothing but BULLSHIT. Its all bullshit. Since there is no way to measure "jobs saved" in the first place -and there is NOT -then any claims about the MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of jobs saved and still being saved even as we speak -is bullshit. The entire CBO report and claims are all nothing but a pile of useless, stinking SHIT.

*Unfortunately in this country there are a lot of people willing to fill their mouths with that shit, chew it up, swallow it all and claim to savor every mouthful as they do. I'm not one of them. Trying to claim that stimulus saved MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of jobs is a massive lie and deliberate attempt to play Americans for the fools, patsies and losers Democrats have always believed them to be anyway.

The stimulus was a COLOSSAL waste of money and it would have produced better results if government had just handed over $2,800 to every man, woman and child in the nation -which is the amount it worked out to be. Oh wow, they managed to forget to break it down that way for you? Hmm. Did YOU get your $2,800 worth from that "stimulus"? Let me see -I have a household of five, that adds up to $14,000 for my family alone. Did my family get its money worth? That isn't counting the $138,000 that represents my share of government debt which adds up to $690,000 as my family's share of government DEBT. Do you REALLY need to ask if my family got its money's worth there too? ROFLMAO! Oh but it's the GOVERNMENT that did it and that must mean it automatically uses MY money better than I can possibly use it MYSELF, right? Or should I have a burning need to pretend it saved my job -and of course until government did that I had no idea my job was worth many times more than what it actually pays me! Because I'm sure whatever government does, it will always do it more cheaply and efficiently than what is done in the private sector. We should just all turn over our entire paychecks to government that magical wise wizard and let the mini-dictators in Congress just decide how much they will LET us have. Because after all, we are all just government owned property anyway to toy with as they see fit.

That stimulus was in reality political payback to Obama and Democrat supporters -as EVERY measure breaking down where the money REALLY went proves. Everyone knows it -more than 70% of that went as Democrat POLITICAL KICKBACKS and PAYOFFS. To say nothing of how Democrats, upon having super majorities in both houses of Congress after the election -turned around and in Jan. 2009 gave members more than a $4,000 pay raise each and then very generously increased Congressional petty cash allowance by another $93,000 -saying they were doing so in order to "stimulate the economy". Did you get your money's worth from THAT too? Oh sure, if Pelosi could just get to spend a few thousand more on new curtains for her office and a few thousand more at the House beauty salon "saving the job" of a House salon beautician (whose job was never at risk anyway) because she has an egocentric and self-aggrandizing need to feel more pampered so she can pretend it means she is beloved as a mini-dictator of the nation -is what it took to save YOUR job, right? Exactly whose job was saved with that bullshit? (Think the media might have given that more coverage if a Republican super majority had done that while thousands were losing their jobs every month and gone along with their claim it was to "stimulate the economy" instead of the truth -that it was for their personal financial gain at OUR expense?)

And interesting the CBO doesn't talk about the massive amount of FRAUD that took place with it and the dollar amount of unaccounted and missing funds. Whose jobs were saved when that happened I wonder? ROFLMAO!

People who want to pretend government is the source of job creation and the best source of "saving" jobs and THIS is how its done -are FULL OF SHIT. See asterisk above as to why they are.

Now let's talk about another interesting subject because frankly there is only ONE logical conclusion why Obama would be pushing this one. He wants to extend the payroll tax cut. The payroll tax funds Social Security and Medicare. Those two programs are already on the fast track to bankruptcy and everyone knows they are not sustainable programs anymore -including the CBO which is not so strangely silent about it. The payroll tax cut sped up the timetable for that inevitable collapse -and now Obama wants to extend that payroll tax cut. Speeding up the timetable for its collapse means giving Americans and their elected representatives even less time to figure out how to salvage them. Interesting he doesn't want INCOME TAX cuts by lowering the income tax rates just enough to put the identical amount of money in their pockets -oh NO, can't have that, immediately start the drumbeat about "tax cuts for the rich" with that one! He wants to cut what people pay into Medicare and Social Security instead! Even though those payroll tax cuts are ones the wealthy get too -hmmm. No class warfare drumbeat when it comes to cutting payroll taxes, right? ROFLMAO And is doing it knowing full well it deprives these programs even FURTHER of critical funding. So ask yourself -WHY would Obama favor a plan to continue cutting the funds people pay into those programs knowing good and well they are already underfunded and headed for total collapse -when this would actually hasten the day of their total collapse? Who does that? And WHY. Do you think its doing YOU a great big favor somehow -falling for that one that Obama has GIVEN you a freebie here? Oh wow, he wants to extend the payroll tax cut -he wants us all to believe he DESERVES to be re-elected for that! Think that makes him the best friend of those dumb-ass masses who want to believe government is a magical, all knowing entity and simply electing an unqualified person to the office magically makes him ALL KNOWING, ALL WISE? Anyone who supports the payroll tax cut (especially instead of an income tax rate cut that would put the identical amount of money back in people's hands) -is a fucking moron at best. Just like Obama and Democrats believe you to be anyway.

I talked about Obama's core beliefs before the last election and it was no secret what those were even though our liberal media refused to properly vet this guy and put him under the same microscope they do for others, especially conservatives. So already knowing Obama's core political beliefs, it is no surprise to me he would support the very thing that will hasten the demise of Social Security and Medicare while trying to deceive people into believing a payroll tax cut is this wonderful "gift" from him. And I know why he did it and why he wants it extended now. I also know this is just more proof of what big idiots, suckers, losers and patsies the left believes Americans to be, little more than cows to be manipulated by those oh-so "smart and caring" leftwing extremists who believe they have an inherent right to rule over the rest of us and firmly believe their ends justifies any means to get there. THIS is one of those means, as is ANYTHING that hastens the collapse of OUR system. Because while Obama was born on US soil -his political beliefs absolutely WERE NOT.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Too funny even the liberal PolitiFact could not support this one
The fake Pelosi chart

Nancy Pelosi posts questionable chart on debt accumulation by Barack Obama, predecessors

Not only do they point out that it is a lie
but they even show

• Debt vs. debt as a percentage of GDP: Some economists will tell you that it’s not the size of the debt per se, but rather the size of the debt relative to the nation’s gross domestic product. This helps minimize the complicating effect of economic cycles and inflation. So how do those numbers stack up? Using OMB statistics, here’s what we came up with, using public debt figures not adjusted for the president’s time in office:

Reagan: Up 14.9 percentage points
George H.W. Bush: Up 7.1 percentage points
Clinton: Down 13.4 percentage points
George W. Bush: Up 5.6 percentage points
Obama: Up 21.9 percentage points (through December 2010 only)



Is this the best the extreme Left can come up with now?
more lies

Truth is the worst enemy of the Left

 

[kaz]

good grief. between 5to 25 million..

couldn't they come UP WITH A NUMBER or are we suppose to pick one.

So yeah sure...I believe it, really..

We could always rely on the official Republican estimate........zero

That would be silly. Zero would be way too high...

 

[Charles_Main]

good grief. between 5to 25 million..

couldn't they come UP WITH A NUMBER or are we suppose to pick one.

So yeah sure...I believe it, really..

We could always rely on the official Republican estimate........zero

Nah, Lets let Obama and the Democrats just make up Numbers, Claim we would have gone into a Great Depression, and get away with it.

I would love to see how Democrats re-acted if a Republican ever tried to run on how many jobs he supposedly saved instead of Created at a cost of a Trillion dollars, After promising us it would Create Jobs and Keep Unemployment below 8%.

Would be a hoot.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Lakota is just trying to save the Messiah--with a smoke screen of charts--in total denial that their hero is out-spending--big spender Booosh by 3 times. They just can't swallow that--because it makes Obummer look bad.

What is Obama spending big money on that wasn't a result of George W. Bush? You can't say the wars, because Obama didn't start them - but he IS ending them.

Afghanistan: Marines To Wind Down Combat In 2012

Non-sequitur.

 

[Neotrotsky]

US News and World Report:

President Obama’s slow ride down Gallup’s daily presidential job approval index
has finally passed below Jimmy Carter, earning Obama the worst job approval rating of any president at this stage of his term in modern political history.​

 

[Chris]

The stimulus saved us from another Great Depression.

That is why even the right wing Chamber of Commerce supported it.

Now the economy is getting even stronger.

Bad new for Republicans.

 

[Truthmatters]

consumer confidence soaring and their5 bag of obstructionist tricks has run out.

They fuck with the economy again like they did in the debt ceiling scam and the party will never survive it