Cheney Calls for full Release of Memos

[WorldAHope]

well if you aren't then choose. choose for your daughter, you gonna fight to win or does the Taliban get her? which?

They simply do not see terrorism as a threat - they have grown conveniently comfortable in their tirades against Bush, American ,the military, war, etc.

Sadly, another attack will come, and then all of these moral convenience will be stomped into oblivion for a few more years, until the passage of time makes it once again convenient.

I've always said that. if they fought as hard for this country as they did to bring President Bush down I might garner up a little respect for them.. sadly it's not the case.. because they want to be seen as "good" they are willing to sacrifice their children your children and the world's children so the terrorists have already won the battle.. I pity us.

Who are the "they" who you say won't/didn't fight FOR this country ?
Liberals ?
You are lumping people into imaginary baskets, thinking folks are somehow fundamentally different. Lliberal/Democrats and a Conservative/Republicans can serve, DO serve, right now,
side by side, and each will fight and would kill for one another.

Happens every day, and has happened for the last couple hundred years in the American armed forces.
I served. My parents served. My brother, my son. My uncle died in World War 2 - a liberal democrat, decorated for his bravery, posthumously. He killed alot of enemy soldiers before he was killed.

Is that what you are meowing about?
You been cowerring in Rush Limbaugh's cave too long.
Crawl out, get some air, see what is really happeneing in the world.

 

[xsited1]

More appeal to emotion.

I understand what you're saying, but humans are not Vulcans. Now I realize my position on this particular issue is not always popular, but I didn't arrive at it lightly.

See, I can respect that.

Well, my ears are a little pointy.

(For the record, I think everyone is making some great points here. We obviously don't all agree, but it's nice we can talk about it.)

 

[Sinatra]

why?

are you going to type fiercely and scare me to death?

are you going to bold me until i give up vital info?

italicize me into submission?

underline me with malice aforethought?

gasp!! use scary red font?

you're just another keyboard patriot. shut the fuck up and go the fuck home.

No - I do none of those things.

Simply out of consideration for things already shared on this forum.

Thank you.

am i supposed to be ascared?

like i said, you're just another keyboard patriot.

Why would you be afraid?

I am not asking for you to fear anything, but simply asking for more careful consideration.

When some of us speak of loss regarding terrorism and war, those are not simply random thoughts, but rather personal experiences.

But if you wish to proceed with cries of potential fear, that is your choice.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I understand what you're saying, but humans are not Vulcans. Now I realize my position on this particular issue is not always popular, but I didn't arrive at it lightly.

See, I can respect that.

Well, my ears are a little pointy.

(For the record, I think everyone is making some great points here. We obviously don't all agree, but it's nice we can talk about it.)

All except the pissant that decided any that has an opinion left of the Third Reich is a lying liar and weak.

I am nominating Sinatra for douchebag of the month.

 

[del]

No - I do none of those things.

Simply out of consideration for things already shared on this forum.

Thank you.

am i supposed to be ascared?

like i said, you're just another keyboard patriot.

Why would you be afraid?

I am not asking for you to fear anything, but simply asking for more careful consideration.

When some of us speak of loss regarding terrorism and war, those are not simply random thoughts, but rather personal experiences.

But if you wish to proceed with cries of potential fear, that is your choice.

so you think your alleged loss has some bearing on whether someone else's opinion is worthwhile? do you think your alleged loss allows you to question the patriotism of those who disagree with you? i don't know what you were like before you're alleged loss, but frankly, you're not much of an american if that's how you think, comrade.

sorry, no sale.

 

[Article 15]

Lose a child. Then tell me how that feels.

More appeal to emotion.

I understand what you're saying, but humans are not Vulcans. Now I realize my position on this particular issue is not always popular, but I didn't arrive at it lightly.

I feel ya, X. I really do. On an individual level I understand this point and have no doubts that many people have personal reasons for coming to that conclusion. However, when it comes to forming policy on this issue I don't think there is much room for such an emotional appeal.

 

[Valerie]

John McCain, asked by Fox News to respond to the report (by the New York Times’s Scott Shane, who picked up the story from Marcy Wheeler) that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times and Abu Zubaydah 83 times (emphasis in original):

…”It’s unacceptable,” McCain said, adding:

"One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us."

McCain later reiterated his point, “The image of the United States of America throughout the world is a recruiting tool for Islamic extremists.”

At the same time, though, McCain thinks Pres. Obama made a “serious mistake” in releasing the torture memos. Go figure.

McCain on Waterboarding and Release of Torture Memos « Liberty Street

 

[xsited1]

More appeal to emotion.

I understand what you're saying, but humans are not Vulcans. Now I realize my position on this particular issue is not always popular, but I didn't arrive at it lightly.

I feel ya, X. I really do. On an individual level I understand this point and have no doubts that many people have personal reasons for coming to that conclusion. However, when it comes to forming policy on this issue I don't think there is much room for such an emotional appeal.

And I agree. This is a difficult issue, especially for me. Again, I appreciate all the comments.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Clinton mocks Cheney demand « - Blogs from CNN.com

Cheney told FOX News on Monday that the Obama administration should release classified documents revealing the results of aggressive interrogation techniques, so a more "honest debate" can take place about the efficacy of the practices.

"I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country," Cheney told FOX. "I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there, and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was."

Guess what, Dick Cheney? I don't CARE how effective waterboarding is. We're Americans, WE DON'T DO THAT. That is not the way I want my country's secret services to operate. I don't care how effective it is. There are always other ways. If the choice is between having that information, and being a country that uses those kinds of torture tactics, and living without that information and suffering another attack, I would RATHER SUFFER ANOTHER ATTACK than become a country that tortures prisoners.

What a load of juvenile nonsense. Grow up.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

No - I do none of those things.

Simply out of consideration for things already shared on this forum.

Thank you.

am i supposed to be ascared?

like i said, you're just another keyboard patriot.

Why would you be afraid?

I am not asking for you to fear anything, but simply asking for more careful consideration.

When some of us speak of loss regarding terrorism and war, those are not simply random thoughts, but rather personal experiences.

But if you wish to proceed with cries of potential fear, that is your choice.

So your loss allows you qualify me as a bad American? Guess my personal experiences don't count, because they led me astray?

 

[Newby]

Where is all the fury over the fact that the war is still continuing and being funded? Where are the daily headlines about the numbers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? They're still happening you know? Under Obama's watch. Where's the screams and the cries that I heard for nearly 8 years, why did they suddenly die on Jan. 19th, 2009, when nothing has 'changed'?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Where is all the fury over the fact that the war is still continuing and being funded? Where are the daily headlines about the numbers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? They're still happening you know? Under Obama's watch. Where's the screams and the cries that I heard for nearly 8 years, why did they suddenly die on Jan. 19th, 2009, when nothing has 'changed'?

What the fuck are you talking about. You are way off-topic.

 

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Yet another right wing wack job that does that represent or speak for all Americans. I myself believe that the torture tactics run were illegal and broke international rules of law. What gives us the right to think that we are above everyone else in the world. This is why so many hate us and want to see harm done to us, the Cheney/Rove policies that were started under Bush indeed put more harm on us and created even more enemies than before Bush took office.

 

[manu1959]

If you lost a loved one to a terrorist attack and found out later that it could have been avoided had the CIA obtained information using waterboarding, you would care.

You're mistaken. Some things matter more than individual lives. Losing one of the most crucial aspects of our Americanness, for instance. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT.

If terrorism causes us to lose our souls, that will be our greatest loss.

i think that you fail to realize that the us has always tortured people....

unfortunately, you just know about it now....

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You know who else used to sell evil deeds to the Public by playing in emotions? Hitler. Just sayin'.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

If you lost a loved one to a terrorist attack and found out later that it could have been avoided had the CIA obtained information using waterboarding, you would care.

You're mistaken. Some things matter more than individual lives. Losing one of the most crucial aspects of our Americanness, for instance. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT.

If terrorism causes us to lose our souls, that will be our greatest loss.

i think that you fail to realize that the us has always tortured people....

unfortunately, you just know about it now....

This doesn't make it okay. We used have slavery too. But for some reason we quit that.

 

[Newby]

Where is all the fury over the fact that the war is still continuing and being funded? Where are the daily headlines about the numbers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? They're still happening you know? Under Obama's watch. Where's the screams and the cries that I heard for nearly 8 years, why did they suddenly die on Jan. 19th, 2009, when nothing has 'changed'?

What the fuck are you talking about. You are way off-topic.

There wouldn't be a question of torture or no torture if there wasn't any war. It has everything to do with the topic. What you're speaking of is a partisan witch hunt, and nothing more. The real issue should be the war and its continuation, wasn't that the biggest topic over the last 7 years? Wasn't that supposed to end with Obama's presidency? Where are all the people that are against the war? Or were they simply all hypocrits and it wasn't about the war at all?

 

[NOBama]

Holder was on the news this morning flapping his jaws about “following the law” regarding this matter. If he pursues it, I hope the defense will get “to the bottom of this” as Clinton stated in the article that started this thread. If I were the defense, topping my witness list would be: George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the 107th and 108th Congresses (as hostiles).

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know what I'd like to see?

Cheney, Bush Jr., Rumsfailed and Condi Rice all thrown in jail at Spandau Prison.

Waterboard the men 6 times a day, and Condi 3 times a day for a month.

THEN let's see if they still think torture was a good idea.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

So what happened to Sinatra? Cut and Run? That looks pretty weak to me.