Child Support is unfair

[Salt Jones]

I was a single parent from my kids ages of 9 and 11 years old, until the youngest was 18. I never received a penny of child support from ex-wife, the court said she didn't have to pay. I was divorced when my youngest was 1.

I started paying child support before the divorce was final and continued until I was awarded sole custody. The 8 years between divorce and my gaining custody were eventful. I was awarded temporary custody for 2 years. The court ordered me to continue paying my ex-wife child support even though I had the kids. Due to state jurisdictional issues, I had to return my kids to my ex-wife. I did't see them again for 5 years. My ex didn't honor our custody orders and moved or changed phone numbers to keep me from contacting my kids. All the while my child support allotment kept going to her bank, I was active duty Navy during this time.

I was going to court the entire time to get my visitation enforced and no matter what she did, from leaving the state when visitation dates came or not answering the phone on our scheduled phone visits, I still paid child support.

Every time we went to court the first question I was asked: "Is your child support current?". No matter what she did, I was always asked about child support. The court gave her total disregard of a court ordered custody agreement equal weight with whether or not I missed a payment. In the end, I won sole custody. My ex-wife was ordered to pay 33% of my legal fees, pay me $5,000 and was given 5 years probation for repeatedly and excessively violating the court orders.

Custody/visitation and child support are two completely different issues. You don't pay child support to buy time with your kids. You pay child support to support your children, and those children need to be supported whether or not you get to see them. They don't cease to exist when they are out of your sight, nor do you get to punish them and your ex because you don't like the custody/visitation arrangement (or even if the custody arrangement is violated).

What are you talking about? I had temporary custody of my kids for two years, because my ex married someone who was abusive towards them. I was stationed in one state and my wife had moved to another state. I got my kids for my summer visitation and took them to my home state, where I had recently been stationed. There I found evidence of abuse, contacted authorities and subsequently was given temporary custody while the court case played out. After two years of hearings and CPS interviews the court ruled that the state in which I resided didn't have jurisdiction, since the abuse happened in my ex-wive's state. I was forced to return my kids to my ex-wife and her husband.

During those 2 years, I paid for my kids counseling, childcare, sports fees, everything they needed. I sold my car to get rid of the car payments and bought a cheaper car and more importantly I never missed a child support payment to my ex-wife, even though I was providing all the care for my kids during that time.

I never used child support as a weapon and that's the reason I ended up winning my court case. That and the fact the abuse of my kids continued once they were returned and I finally was able to prove it.

 

[Aristotle]

what say me?


Men should pay for child support if they make a baby. If they dont want to pay child support...they should have kept their sperm to themselves.

So its ok that a woman squander's the money on herself?

Yes it is.

The woman pays rent, buys food, buys clothing, pays the utilities. If she takes the child support and blows it, she's still paying the bills.

It's obvious your neither a lawyer nor understand the concept of law. No, its not ok for a woman to blow money on herself. There are many women who are alcoholics and drug addicts who have irrational behavior. The fact that you can accept a possible drug addict who is irresponsible to accept money and misuse that money for personal reasons is telling of your character.

 

[Aristotle]

So its ok that a woman squander's the money on herself?

Yes it is.

The woman pays rent, buys food, buys clothing, pays the utilities. If she takes the child support and blows it, she's still paying the bills.

This.

Whether she or he takes that specific check and spends it on something you don't like isn't the point because, its assumed, they are still caring for the child. Like others have said, it's not just about food or clothes but rent and heat and upkeep of the home and everything else that goes into that. That is why the more you make the more you send, because it's about providing a home and lifestyle for your child, not just diapers and school clothes.

You're justifying irresponsible behavior.

 

[AmyNation]

So its ok that a woman squander's the money on herself?

Yes it is.

The woman pays rent, buys food, buys clothing, pays the utilities. If she takes the child support and blows it, she's still paying the bills.

It's obvious your neither a lawyer nor understand the concept of law. No, its not ok for a woman to blow money on herself. There are many women who are alcoholics and drug addicts who have irrational behavior. The fact that you can accept a possible drug addict who is irresponsible to accept money and misuse that money for personal reasons is telling of your character.

If the primary parent is a drug addict or otherwise unfit then it's the other parents responsibility to report him/her and file for custody.

However "mom is a crack head", is not the norm, it's a bit of a red herring. In the majority of situations, the primary parent is your average responsible adult who provides food shelter, and the 101 other things that the non-custodial parent does not.

 

[AmyNation]

Yes it is.

The woman pays rent, buys food, buys clothing, pays the utilities. If she takes the child support and blows it, she's still paying the bills.

This.

Whether she or he takes that specific check and spends it on something you don't like isn't the point because, its assumed, they are still caring for the child. Like others have said, it's not just about food or clothes but rent and heat and upkeep of the home and everything else that goes into that. That is why the more you make the more you send, because it's about providing a home and lifestyle for your child, not just diapers and school clothes.

You're justifying irresponsible behavior.

What irresponsible behavior?

 

[koshergrl]

So its ok that a woman squander's the money on herself?

Yes it is.

The woman pays rent, buys food, buys clothing, pays the utilities. If she takes the child support and blows it, she's still paying the bills.

It's obvious your neither a lawyer nor understand the concept of law. No, its not ok for a woman to blow money on herself. There are many women who are alcoholics and drug addicts who have irrational behavior. The fact that you can accept a possible drug addict who is irresponsible to accept money and misuse that money for personal reasons is telling of your character.

Actually, katz is EXACTLY correct, and that is exactly the way a judge interprets the law. I know because that is exactly the way a relative of mine, who is a judge, explained it. If a woman is an addict and irrational, then THAT is grounds for custody review...but so long as those children are in her care, she is the one who determines how she spends the money. Yes, she can spend money on herself, because her well being and contentment affects the children directly.

Give up the control. You are no longer married, and once you write that check, the money is no longer yours.

 

[koshergrl]

This.

Whether she or he takes that specific check and spends it on something you don't like isn't the point because, its assumed, they are still caring for the child. Like others have said, it's not just about food or clothes but rent and heat and upkeep of the home and everything else that goes into that. That is why the more you make the more you send, because it's about providing a home and lifestyle for your child, not just diapers and school clothes.

Do you even understand the shit your writing?

You're justifying irresponsible behavior.

What irresponsible behavior?

He thinks that he can justify his desire to withhold support, or alternately determine how it is spent, by pretending that if he doesn't, mom is going to (*gasp*) spend the money ON HERSELF for her own pleasure (or, apparently, to fund her addiction to drugs)....it seems the judge in this case thought a crack addict was the better parent and gave custody of the children to an addict, and he is being forced to buy her drugs via child support.

 

[Plasmaball]

The only unfair thing about child support the one who is paying it can't use it as a tax deduction I pay a thousand a month for one child and can't use it as a deduction

Your child is not a charity...

 

[Noomi]

Fathers shouldn't have to pay child support if they made it clear they never wanted a child, but the woman got pregnant anyway. A woman should have no right to force a man to become a father, because he has no legal right to force her to become a mother. Its reverse discrimination.

If the man never wanted a child then the man should have been using rubbers or should have had a vasectomy. He should be responsible for himself and his own wishes....SHE SHOULD NOT have to be responsible for forefilling his desires of not having a child.

Sometimes a man WILL use condoms and the woman tells him that she is taking birth control. But she isn't, and she punches holes in his condoms, gets pregnant, and demands he pay money for the baby.

What right does she have to force him to become a father?

 

[Noomi]

What about the men who pay child support to children they rarely get to see? If the woman has full custody and he only gets to see the kids every second weekend, why should he pay child support when he isn't even allowed to see his kids when he wants? And why can't the woman get a job and provide for HER kids herself, without seeing the man as a cash cow?

And what about those men right now who are paying child support for a child that isn't even biologically theirs? Men should be allowed to request paternity tests at the birth to make sure they are not going to be forced into paying thousands to raise someone else's child.

Years ago I heard of a man who had four children. He was paying support for all of them, equaling thousands of dollars. He discovered that only ONE of those children was his, the other three were fathered by his best friend - his neighbor. He took the ex to court but the judge decided that because he had been paying support for so many years, it would be harmful to the kids for this to stop, so he was ordered to continue paying child support to all of those children.

How the hell is that fair?

 

[Salt Jones]

Fathers shouldn't have to pay child support if they made it clear they never wanted a child, but the woman got pregnant anyway. A woman should have no right to force a man to become a father, because he has no legal right to force her to become a mother. Its reverse discrimination.

If the man never wanted a child then the man should have been using rubbers or should have had a vasectomy. He should be responsible for himself and his own wishes....SHE SHOULD NOT have to be responsible for forefilling his desires of not having a child.

Sometimes a man WILL use condoms and the woman tells him that she is taking birth control. But she isn't, and she punches holes in his condoms, gets pregnant, and demands he pay money for the baby.

What right does she have to force him to become a father?

Sometimes a man will rape a woman, thus impregnating her, and the state she lives in may force her to leave to get an abortion. If she has the child, some states will award custody rights to the rapist.

What rights does a rapist have as a father?

 

[Ravi]

these threads always seem to have a common point: women are evil.

 

[Noomi]

If the man never wanted a child then the man should have been using rubbers or should have had a vasectomy. He should be responsible for himself and his own wishes....SHE SHOULD NOT have to be responsible for forefilling his desires of not having a child.

Sometimes a man WILL use condoms and the woman tells him that she is taking birth control. But she isn't, and she punches holes in his condoms, gets pregnant, and demands he pay money for the baby.

What right does she have to force him to become a father?

Sometimes a man will rape a woman, thus impregnating her, and the state she lives in may force her to leave to get an abortion. If she has the child, some states will award custody rights to the rapist.

What rights does a rapist have as a father?

None, and the government is fucked up if it allows a rapist to come near the woman he raped.

 

[Noomi]

these threads always seem to have a common point: women are evil.

Not saying women are evil -but the fact is, there ARE some women out there who have taken advantage of men.

I am a woman, and I am opposed to men paying child support if they made it clear they didn't want children.

 

[Aristotle]

Yes it is.

The woman pays rent, buys food, buys clothing, pays the utilities. If she takes the child support and blows it, she's still paying the bills.

It's obvious your neither a lawyer nor understand the concept of law. No, its not ok for a woman to blow money on herself. There are many women who are alcoholics and drug addicts who have irrational behavior. The fact that you can accept a possible drug addict who is irresponsible to accept money and misuse that money for personal reasons is telling of your character.

If the primary parent is a drug addict or otherwise unfit then it's the other parents responsibility to report him/her and file for custody.

However "mom is a crack head", is not the norm, it's a bit of a red herring. In the majority of situations, the primary parent is your average responsible adult who provides food shelter, and the 101 other things that the non-custodial parent does not.

Sure but I am talking about irresponsible behavior. You stated that it was acceptable for a woman to blow money because she is paying rent. Seriously, paying rent? How do you even know that this is so? You don't. No case is typical. You just decimated your entire case by justifying selfish behavior which is atypical of supporting the child.

 

[Aristotle]

I was a single parent from my kids ages of 9 and 11 years old, until the youngest was 18. I never received a penny of child support from ex-wife, the court said she didn't have to pay. I was divorced when my youngest was 1.

I started paying child support before the divorce was final and continued until I was awarded sole custody. The 8 years between divorce and my gaining custody were eventful. I was awarded temporary custody for 2 years. The court ordered me to continue paying my ex-wife child support even though I had the kids. Due to state jurisdictional issues, I had to return my kids to my ex-wife. I did't see them again for 5 years. My ex didn't honor our custody orders and moved or changed phone numbers to keep me from contacting my kids. All the while my child support allotment kept going to her bank, I was active duty Navy during this time.

I was going to court the entire time to get my visitation enforced and no matter what she did, from leaving the state when visitation dates came or not answering the phone on our scheduled phone visits, I still paid child support.

Every time we went to court the first question I was asked: "Is your child support current?". No matter what she did, I was always asked about child support. The court gave her total disregard of a court ordered custody agreement equal weight with whether or not I missed a payment. In the end, I won sole custody. My ex-wife was ordered to pay 33% of my legal fees, pay me $5,000 and was given 5 years probation for repeatedly and excessively violating the court orders.

Custody/visitation and child support are two completely different issues. You don't pay child support to buy time with your kids. You pay child support to support your children, and those children need to be supported whether or not you get to see them. They don't cease to exist when they are out of your sight, nor do you get to punish them and your ex because you don't like the custody/visitation arrangement (or even if the custody arrangement is violated).

What are you talking about? I had temporary custody of my kids for two years, because my ex married someone who was abusive towards them. I was stationed in one state and my wife had moved to another state. I got my kids for my summer visitation and took them to my home state, where I had recently been stationed. There I found evidence of abuse, contacted authorities and subsequently was given temporary custody while the court case played out. After two years of hearings and CPS interviews the court ruled that the state in which I resided didn't have jurisdiction, since the abuse happened in my ex-wive's state. I was forced to return my kids to my ex-wife and her husband.

During those 2 years, I paid for my kids counseling, childcare, sports fees, everything they needed. I sold my car to get rid of the car payments and bought a cheaper car and more importantly I never missed a child support payment to my ex-wife, even though I was providing all the care for my kids during that time.

I never used child support as a weapon and that's the reason I ended up winning my court case. That and the fact the abuse of my kids continued once they were returned and I finally was able to prove it.

You my friend are an excellent example of what it is to be an adult.

 

[beagle9]

I can understand the feeling, however whether she/he takes that specific check and spends it on nails or beer, is not the other parents business.

Think of the money for child support as a reimbursement check, for monies the primary parent has already spent that month for the child.

Wrong, because as he said, it is for the child and it's well being, not for the mother to buy things while the child is found to be lacking afterwards.

 

[beagle9]

Custody/visitation and child support are two completely different issues. You don't pay child support to buy time with your kids. You pay child support to support your children, and those children need to be supported whether or not you get to see them. They don't cease to exist when they are out of your sight, nor do you get to punish them and your ex because you don't like the custody/visitation arrangement (or even if the custody arrangement is violated).

What are you talking about? I had temporary custody of my kids for two years, because my ex married someone who was abusive towards them. I was stationed in one state and my wife had moved to another state. I got my kids for my summer visitation and took them to my home state, where I had recently been stationed. There I found evidence of abuse, contacted authorities and subsequently was given temporary custody while the court case played out. After two years of hearings and CPS interviews the court ruled that the state in which I resided didn't have jurisdiction, since the abuse happened in my ex-wive's state. I was forced to return my kids to my ex-wife and her husband.

During those 2 years, I paid for my kids counseling, childcare, sports fees, everything they needed. I sold my car to get rid of the car payments and bought a cheaper car and more importantly I never missed a child support payment to my ex-wife, even though I was providing all the care for my kids during that time.

I never used child support as a weapon and that's the reason I ended up winning my court case. That and the fact the abuse of my kids continued once they were returned and I finally was able to prove it.

You my friend are an excellent example of what it is to be an adult.

And a loving caring parent.. Good deal..

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I can understand the feeling, however whether she/he takes that specific check and spends it on nails or beer, is not the other parents business.

Think of the money for child support as a reimbursement check, for monies the primary parent has already spent that month for the child.

Wrong, because as he said, it is for the child and it's well being, not for the mother to buy things while the child is found to be lacking afterwards.

You’re confusing two separate issues; as long as there is no evidence of abuse or neglect, no one can compel the CP to earmark each child support dollar and require it be spent on the child(ren) only.

If there is evidence of abuse or neglect, however, that evidence can be brought to the attention of child welfare services, the police, the court, or all three for action in accordance with a given state’s laws.

 

[AmyNation]

It's obvious your neither a lawyer nor understand the concept of law. No, its not ok for a woman to blow money on herself. There are many women who are alcoholics and drug addicts who have irrational behavior. The fact that you can accept a possible drug addict who is irresponsible to accept money and misuse that money for personal reasons is telling of your character.

If the primary parent is a drug addict or otherwise unfit then it's the other parents responsibility to report him/her and file for custody.

However "mom is a crack head", is not the norm, it's a bit of a red herring. In the majority of situations, the primary parent is your average responsible adult who provides food shelter, and the 101 other things that the non-custodial parent does not.

Sure but I am talking about irresponsible behavior. You stated that it was acceptable for a woman to blow money because she is paying rent. Seriously, paying rent? How do you even know that this is so? You don't. No case is typical. You just decimated your entire case by justifying selfish behavior which is atypical of supporting the child.

The bottom line is, you would like to monitor how the mother of your child spend her child support money. I say, that's a great idea, as long as every month she spends more then you send, you send her more money.