China is about to declare war on the USA. Should the USA fold? (Poll)

[kyzr]

Gee, you sure aren't up on actual recent events, are you? Maybe you should consider a new and better news source!

So if Biden doesn't support Taiwan independence, why did he say he would defend Taiwan if China attacked? The US gets about 90% of our chips from Taiwan. We do not want China controlling Taiwan, do we?

 

[kyzr]

I think Putin is that stupid, and I think he's also that desperate. He's isolated himself from even his closest advisors since the start of the pandemic. We've all seen the pictures - 20 foot long tables separate Putin from those he's working with. No group meetings.

The rumour making the rounds is that Putin has cancer, and is terrified of getting covid. This is based on his skin tone, his weight loss, and his eyes. He's trying to restore the Russian Empire before he dies and he's running out of time.

This invasion has been a gross miscalculation on his behalf. He grossly underestimated his own military's capabilities, and he completely midjudged both the Ukrainian people, and their leadership. He believed that Trump's fracturing of NATO was complete and that NATO would never reunite or strengthen. In fairness, NATO has given Putin no reason to believe they would do much to stop him, based on his past annexations of Crimea, Georgia, and other FSU Republics.

You were doing so well...until your TDS kicked in.
1. Trump strengthened NATO, so says NATO secretary Stoltenberg:

Secretary General thanks President Trump for his commitment to NATO

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg thanked US President Donald Trump for his strong leadership and commitment to the Alliance in a meeting at the White House on Thursday (14 November 2019). Mr. Stoltenberg highlighted rising defence investment across European Allies and Canada, amounting to...

www.nato.int

Stoltenberg highlighted rising defence investment across European Allies and Canada, amounting to more than $100 billion extra in recent years

2. That was Biden that fractured NATO, being held in CONTEMPT by the Brits, and having the French pull their ambassador for Biden's moronic withdrawal from AFG.

UK Parliament Makes Unprecedented Decision to Hold Biden in Contempt

Members of the UK parliament from across the political spectrum have decided to hold President Biden in contempt for his bungled withdrawal.

www.westernjournal.com

NOTE: I proved my statements with LINKS

 

[toobfreak]

So if Biden doesn't support Taiwan independence, why did he say he would defend Taiwan if China attacked?

Biden is an idiot who doesn't know from day to day what his administration's policies are.

The US gets about 90% of our chips from Taiwan. We do not want China controlling Taiwan, do we?

Absolutely not.

 

[Independent thinker]

1. You type words as facts with no proof. I agree that Russia and Ukraine will be fighting for years, with very little movement. IMHO Putin will be forced to find an exit ramp. His economy is shrinking and shrinking. He has oil revenue, but that can't keep the tiny Russian economy afloat.

2. Taiwan will decide their future. If China wants to declare economic war on the civilized world, they will find out how fast wealth can disappear. There is no reason to change from the status quo. We'll see how smart the Chinese are. If they take Taiwan by force, the chip industry will be long gone.

Russia will never exit Ukraine. They make more progress every day. Has it taken a lot longer than they thought? Absolutely. China will, in the long run, get exactly what they want with Taiwan. They never planned to take it by force and they won't have to. But, they will eventually get it without having to invade.

 

[toobfreak]

Isn't it odd that the position of Biden's administration on Nancy's visit to Taiwan is:

1. Nancy speaks for herself.
2. We don't know what she is doing there.
3. She can say whatever it is she wants to say.

So Nancy did NOT go there in any official capacity as a head of the US government?

I hope she bought the ticket for the flight there out of her own back pocket then and took a commercial flight.

 

[kyzr]

Russia will never exit Ukraine. They make more progress every day. Has it taken a lot longer than they thought? Absolutely. China will, in the long run, get exactly what they want with Taiwan. They never planned Russia to take it by force and they won't have to. But, they will eventually get it without having to invade.

1. Russia can have Donbas and Crimea. So what? That's roughly the battle-line from 2014. I'm not seeing Russia taking large swaths of Ukraine. There's 43m Ukes that will fight to the death to defend Ukraine, as long as NATO keeps giving them weapons.

2. China can have Taiwan after we remove all our chip manufacturing equipment.

 

[kyzr]

Isn't it odd that the position of Biden's administration on Nancy's visit to Taiwan is:

1. Nancy speaks for herself.
2. We don't know what she is doing there.
3. She can say whatever it is she wants to say.

So Nancy did NOT go there in any official capacity as a head of the US government?
I hope she bought the ticket for the flight there out of her own back pocket then and took a commercial flight.

Nancy went there to make a few deals, nothing but business.

 

[toobfreak]

Nancy went there to make a few deals, nothing but business.

Must be some big deal!

 

[Independent thinker]

1. Russia can have Donbas and Crimea. So what? That's roughly the battle-line from 2014. I'm not seeing Russia taking large swaths of Ukraine. There's 43m Ukes that will fight to the death to defend Ukraine, as long as NATO keeps giving them weapons.

2. China can have Taiwan after we remove all our chip manufacturing equipment.

Best case scenario for Ukraine: Russia annexes Donbas and lays total and complete waste to the rest of the country, turning it into nothing but rubble everywhere the eye can see. It wouldn't be a fit place for anyone to actually live.

 

[kyzr]

Best case scenario for Ukraine: Russia annexes Donbas and lays total and complete waste to the rest of the country, turning it into nothing but rubble everywhere the eye can see. It wouldn't be a fit place for anyone to actually live.

Best case scenario for Ukraine, Russia realizes that the war is just too expensive, in rubles and lives, and negotiates a real peace treaty, going back to the 2014 lines, a strategic loss and financial disaster.
Then after Putin dies Ukraine can join NATO.

 

[Independent thinker]

Best case scenario for Ukraine, Russia realizes that the war is just too expensive, in rubles and lives, and negotiates a real peace treaty, going back to the 2014 lines, a strategic loss and financial disaster.
Then after Putin dies Ukraine can join NATO.

LOL. I hope you're just telling some of your fantasies. But, let me ask you this, because I have been dying to ask someone this for months and you just got voted:

The world has sanctioned Russia all over the place to give him severe pain and try "encouraging" him to stop the Ukraine invasion and pull back out, basically making him cry uncle. So, what if Putin actually feels the pain so badly that he does just that, stopping the invasion and pulling out because the pain inflicted by the world was just too great? So, what happens then? Does the world just stop all of the sanctions and go back to the way things were because, that's what the sanctions were all about, to make Putin change his mind and retreat? So, if he does that and yet the world still keeps on sanctioning Russia as before, then what incentive does Putin have to reverse course? Will Ukraine be stopped from joining NATO? Will we agree to stop Finland and Sweden from joining NATO? What does Putin gain by stopping and retreating?

 

[Dragonlady]

You were doing so well...until your TDS kicked in.
1. Trump strengthened NATO, so says NATO secretary Stoltenberg:

Secretary General thanks President Trump for his commitment to NATO

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg thanked US President Donald Trump for his strong leadership and commitment to the Alliance in a meeting at the White House on Thursday (14 November 2019). Mr. Stoltenberg highlighted rising defence investment across European Allies and Canada, amounting to...

www.nato.int

Stoltenberg highlighted rising defence investment across European Allies and Canada, amounting to more than $100 billion extra in recent years

2. That was Biden that fractured NATO, being held in CONTEMPT by the Brits, and having the French pull their ambassador for Biden's moronic withdrawal from AFG.

UK Parliament Makes Unprecedented Decision to Hold Biden in Contempt

Members of the UK parliament from across the political spectrum have decided to hold President Biden in contempt for his bungled withdrawal.

www.westernjournal.com

NOTE: I proved my statements with LINKS

1. Stoltenberg was sucking up to Trump. It was an act to flatter and placate Trump and keep him from pulling out of NATO altogether. I've taken the quotes for this article:

How NATO leaders used quiet maneuvers and 'adroit flattery' to keep Trump from blowing up the alliance

The alliance survived Trump thanks largely to the skills of NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, new research shows.

www.businessinsider.com

"Stoltenberg lobbied allies to increase their defense spending. By making sure to do so publicly, Stoltenberg was able to put more pressure on underpaying members and to signal to Trump that he shared Trump's concerns.

To placate the unpredictable American president and cast him as the main driver of positive change within the alliance, Stoltenberg credited Trump with any success in securing spending commitments."

And then there is this:

"Stoltenberg was also always careful to compare "the spending figures to 2016 — the year of Trump's election — rather than 2015, when the allies' budgets first showed increases," Schuette notes."

2. As for this item, I did point out that Biden's failure to include your allies in the exit strategy was a huge mistake, and the Brits have every right to be pissed. But there was no "fracture" of NATO, the Brits did not sever diplomatic relations.

He was also rude to the French, but to be fair, he apologized to both for his missteps, as well he should. This is more than Trump would ever have done. He can never admit a mistake or say he's sorry. Trump sees apologies as a sign of "weakness". In reality, they're a sign of strength.

I don't expect perfection from anyone. But I do expect decency.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Dood, this is 2022.

So.
Trump was a communist long before 2018.

 

[kyzr]

LOL. I hope you're just telling some of your fantasies. But, let me ask you this, because I have been dying to ask someone this for months and you just got voted:
The world has sanctioned Russia all over the place to give him severe pain and try "encouraging" him to stop the Ukraine invasion and pull back out, basically making him cry uncle. So, what if Putin actually feels the pain so badly that he does just that, stopping the invasion and pulling out because the pain inflicted by the world was just too great? So, what happens then? Does the world just stop all of the sanctions and go back to the way things were because, that's what the sanctions were all about, to make Putin change his mind and retreat? So, if he does that and yet the world still keeps on sanctioning Russia as before, then what incentive does Putin have to reverse course? Will Ukraine be stopped from joining NATO? Will we agree to stop Finland and Sweden from joining NATO? What does Putin gain by stopping and retreating?

I hope my opinions aren't "fantasies". Here are my responses to your thoughtful questions.

So, if Putin leaves Ukraine and yet the world still keeps on sanctioning Russia as before, then what incentive does Putin have to reverse course?
I believe the sanctions would come off Russia when Putin stops the war. I'm sure it would take time for Russia to fully recover, but that is the better option for Putin. To sell gas to the EU and stop wasting rubles on war.

Will Ukraine be stopped from joining NATO?
After Putin, here's hoping that the next Russian leader doesn't care about Ukraine, especially after Sweden and Finland are in NATO. What's the point?

Will we agree to stop Finland and Sweden from joining NATO?
They are already in. Nothing Putin can do about it.

What does Putin gain by stopping and retreating?
Putin gains part of Ukraine, probably Donbas, the area he had in 2014. Putin gains by not wasting lives and rubles on war. Putin gains by having sanctions removed. Putin gains by selling gas and oil to the EU again, but probably less. Putin gains by getting back into prestigious organizations like the G8. Putin gains by having his oligarchs back on his side, and getting their yachts back. Putin gains by having his economy grow again instead of shrinking.

 

[kyzr]

So.
Trump was a communist long before 2018.

Trump is a billionaire. You can't be that fucking stupid.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Trump is a billionaire. You can't be that fucking stupid.

THAT'S what Trump claimed, since.......................FOREVER.
Hasn't to proven it yet.
You morons bought his BS, hook, line and sinker, and his cult STILL sends the grifter $$$.

 

[kyzr]

1. Stoltenberg was sucking up to Trump. It was an act to flatter and placate Trump and keep him from pulling out of NATO altogether. I've taken the quotes for this article:

"Stoltenberg lobbied allies to increase their defense spending. By making sure to do so publicly, Stoltenberg was able to put more pressure on underpaying members and to signal to Trump that he shared Trump's concerns.

To placate the unpredictable American president and cast him as the main driver of positive change within the alliance, Stoltenberg credited Trump with any success in securing spending commitments."

"Stoltenberg was also always careful to compare "the spending figures to 2016 — the year of Trump's election — rather than 2015, when the allies' budgets first showed increases," Schuette notes."

2. As for this item, I did point out that Biden's failure to include your allies in the exit strategy was a huge mistake, and the Brits have every right to be pissed. But there was no "fracture" of NATO, the Brits did not sever diplomatic relations.
He was also rude to the French, but to be fair, he apologized to both for his missteps, as well he should. This is more than Trump would ever have done. He can never admit a mistake or say he's sorry. Trump sees apologies as a sign of "weakness". In reality, they're a sign of strength. I don't expect perfection from anyone. But I do expect decency.

1. You probably don't realize how many Americans feel about NATO. We are all-in on NATO, but we are pissed that too many EU countries always take advantage of the US. For example, the US spends more than $800b a year on defense, including about $25b a year just to keep troops in the EU to protect them from Russia. Then as Trump notes, Germany and other NATO countries buy gas from Russia funding their military!!! WTF?? Why should the US spend money to defend the EU from Russia if the EU is funding Russia's military? It makes no sense. Then on top of that, Trump noted that many NATO countries are not meeting their military spending commitments, just freeloading off the US. I don't think Trump threatened pulling out of NATO, but maybe pulling some US troops out of the EU. Most Americans agreed with Trump, especially on defense spending.

This is How Much NATO Countries Spend on Defense

How much does each country in the military alliance contribute to NATO defense spending? We break it down with this map.

www.visualcapitalist.com

2. There was no fracture of NATO under Trump either. No one severed diplomatic relations under Trump either. No one held Trump in CONTEMPT. No one pulled their ambassador under Trump. Trump made NATO stronger just in time. Biden is a disaster. Trump was a much better president.

 

[Independent thinker]

I hope my opinions aren't "fantasies". Here are my responses to your thoughtful questions.

So, if Putin leaves Ukraine and yet the world still keeps on sanctioning Russia as before, then what incentive does Putin have to reverse course?
I believe the sanctions would come off Russia when Putin stops the war. I'm sure it would take time for Russia to fully recover, but that is the better option for Putin. To sell gas to the EU and stop wasting rubles on war.

Will Ukraine be stopped from joining NATO?
After Putin, here's hoping that the next Russian leader doesn't care about Ukraine, especially after Sweden and Finland are in NATO. What's the point?

Will we agree to stop Finland and Sweden from joining NATO?
They are already in. Nothing Putin can do about it.

What does Putin gain by stopping and retreating?
Putin gains part of Ukraine, probably Donbas, the area he had in 2014. Putin gains by not wasting lives and rubles on war. Putin gains by having sanctions removed. Putin gains by selling gas and oil to the EU again, but probably less. Putin gains by getting back into prestigious organizations like the G8. Putin gains by having his oligarchs back on his side, and getting their yachts back. Putin gains by having his economy grow again instead of shrinking.

I just don't see the world stopping sanctions on Russia if Putin cries uncle.

 

[Cellblock2429]

China just said that they will shoot down Nancy Pelosi's plane if she goes to Taiwan.

Chinese state media warn fighter jets escorting Pelosi to Taiwan could be shot down - Washington Examiner

A Chinese state media figure warned that the presence of U.S. fighter jets accompanying House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's transport to Taiwan would be considered an "invasion."Hu Xijin, a commentator for China's Global Times, warned on Friday that "if US fighter jets escort Pelosi’s plane into...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

"A Chinese state media figure warned that the presence of U.S. fighter jets accompanying House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's transport to Taiwan would be considered an "invasion."

Should Nancy and possibly Kevin McCarthy go to Taiwan under heavy military escort, or not?

The Ronald Reagan carrier group is right there....just sayin'

/——-/ Nancy Piglosi is a bitch on wheels, but she’s our bitch on wheels.

 

[Dragonlady]

1. You probably don't realize how many Americans feel about NATO. We are all-in on NATO, but we are pissed that too many EU countries always take advantage of the US. For example, the US spends more than $800b a year on defense, including about $25b a year just to keep troops in the EU to protect them from Russia. Then as Trump notes, Germany and other NATO countries buy gas from Russia funding their military!!! WTF?? Why should the US spend money to defend the EU from Russia if the EU is funding Russia's military? It makes no sense. Then on top of that, Trump noted that many NATO countries are not meeting their military spending commitments, just freeloading off the US. I don't think Trump threatened pulling out of NATO, but maybe pulling some US troops out of the EU. Most Americans agreed with Trump, especially on defense spending.

This is How Much NATO Countries Spend on Defense

How much does each country in the military alliance contribute to NATO defense spending? We break it down with this map.

www.visualcapitalist.com

2. There was no fracture of NATO under Trump either. No one severed diplomatic relations under Trump either. No one held Trump in CONTEMPT. No one pulled their ambassador under Trump. Trump made NATO stronger just in time. Biden is a disaster. Trump was a much better president.

1. I'm very aware that most Americans believe in NATO. With respect to your feelings of being "taken advantage of", speaking as someone from the REST of the world, here is our take on your view. YOU waste a LOT of money on a large bloated military, you really don't need. YOU spend more than the next 10 nations combined, and 9 of those 10 nations are your allies. NOBODY asks you to do this. You'd be spending this amount with or without NATO.

YOU just want us to spend money we don't need to spend, primarily because most of us don't make weapons of war, we have to buy them from YOU. This is a push to sell American made weapons and munitions. We agreed to raise our defense spending to 2% of GDP when Obama was President, and all but one or two small Europeans were fully up to date and track with that increase, when Donald Trump went to Brussels and made an fool of himself at the NATO meeting, and world leaders laughed at him as he spoke.

NATO waited out the Trump Presidency in the hopes that Trump will be gone, but had Trump been re-elected, he would have taken the USA out of NATO. His advisors kept him from doing it in his first term, and with Stoltenberg flattering and placating Trump, it was enough. To say that the rest of NATO, thinks Donald Trump is a total ass, is beyond doubt.

2. NATO was deeply fractured under TRUMP. All faith and trust of the USA as the leader of the free world is GONE. Not just for his military blunders, but because he tore up all your trade deals. Those of us in the rest of the world no longer trust the USA on ANY score, because of the risk of Trump, or someone just like him, being elected.

I know that Trump voters think that Trump is reviled world-wide because of his "America First" policies. Quite the contrary, there is little about Trump's policies that puts "America First". Tearing up all of your trade deals at the same time, instead of re-negotiating them one by left, has resulted in a 15% increase in your trade deficit.

Canada has been running a trade deficit with the USA all of my life. Now, thanks to Donald Trump and his USA-Canada-Mexico Trade Agreement, we're running a trade surplus, not just in hard goods, but overall, we are now in a trade surplus position for the first time in our history.

Your trading partners weren't "screwing you over" or "stealing your jobs". American corporations were GIVING them your jobs, and your proprietary designs and data, so the corporations could avoid environmental laws, and labour laws, make MORE MONEY. And the American government supports this behaviour with tax breaks, and protections, to protect those profits, at the expense of the American workers.

Trump mouthed the words "American First", but at all times it's billionaires and large corporations first, and fuck the working people.