"Christian" Religions which reject the Trinity Doctrine

[there4eyeM]

Where did Jesus ever say, "I am the Son of God."?
Nowhere.
How did he refer to himself? He called himself the son of man.
Jesus was, even by the least believers, a very evolved human. What reason would he have to refer to himself thus?

 

[hobelim]

Mormonism - Latter-day Saints

Jehovah's Witnesses

Christian Science

Armstrongism

Christadelphians

Oneness Pentecostals

Unification Church

Unity School of Christianity

Scientology - Dianetics

Dear ding to be fair
when I talked with a coworker at a previous job,
who believed in Unity while her husband was Church of Christ,
they had struggled and struggled with him trying to explain to her
how the "three were one". He and I both used the analogy of
"Judicial Legislative and Executive" being 3 DISTINCT authorities
but there is only ONE Government not three! His wife still
could not get her brain to think that way. She (and her Mom)
just saw God as ONE not three, where Jesus and the Holy Spirit are distinct
from God the Heavenly Father.

What I got from this, was that the BRAINS that think in terms
of three, or three in one, or one only, just see things differently.
Similar to atheists seeing and saying thing as impersonal and nontheistically,
while Christians or Deists may see God as Personified. Buddhists also
see the forces and laws of Life and Nature as IMPERSONAL not personified.

I do not think it is fair to judge people if their brains DIVIDE
things differently.

I learned in a linguistics class, some cultures don't have a word for
PINK but call it LIGHT RED. When I think of Light Red I don't think
of Pink, but I think of a Red that is faded or weak. That's not the
same thing as a concentrated shade of PINK. So I realized that
I may never see colors the same as someone brought up with
a language that biases their brains to see Pink as a shade of Red.
Similar with the word AzURE that means light blue. To me that's
just another shade of Blue, but light, so what? To others it's
a separate color that has its OWN NAME.

So how we divide the spiritual spectrum is going to
be conditioned by language and perception as well.

It's still the same God, it's still the same color range.
But how we distinguish one thing from another
or if we "blend some together" as the same,
that's going to vary from person to person,
culture to culture, or brain to brain.

It's Still the same God or Jesus
whether we call God by Wisdom
Heavenly Father, God's laws, God's truth,
Universe, Nature, Good will etc.
or Jesus by Salvation, Justice,
Justice and Peace, Restorative Justice.
We divide the spectrum and names differently
but these all point to the universal laws or
sources of Truth or God and Justice or Jesus.

Jesus is clear in John he is NOT his father. His authority comes from his father but he is NOT his father.

Exactly!

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and their Father; My God and their God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either claimed to be God or thought of himself as God.

 

[hobelim]

Where did Jesus ever say, "I am the Son of God."?
Nowhere.
How did he refer to himself? He called himself the son of man.
Jesus was, even by the least believers, a very evolved human. What reason would he have to refer to himself thus?

" Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? John 10:36

Son of God is a relational metaphor for the Messiah, the one to whom the revelation about the hidden teaching of the law was first given by God indicating rank and closeness to God above that of other prophets who were called servants of God.

It was a legal defense against the charge of blasphemy.

If the act of God in giving the law made them elohim, judges of the law, (gods), the act of God in giving the secret revelation of the law to Jesus made him Gods chosen son.

Remember? "Don't accept the evidence of my words, accept the evidence of my deeds."

Don't just believe me because I said so, believe me because I did what no other man but the messiah could do.

 

[del]

the trinity is a political, not spiritual, construct

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Mormonism - Latter-day Saints

Jehovah's Witnesses

Christian Science

Armstrongism

Christadelphians

Oneness Pentecostals

Unification Church

Unity School of Christianity

Scientology - Dianetics

So, do you support the Catholic Trinity doctrine or reject it?

I followed HWA as he followed Christ, so yeah, I reject the pagan Trinity.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Whether God is triune is an issue that confounded Christians even in the first four centuries. If God is almighty, then He is the only God. Two beings, God and the Son of God, can't both be almighty. And one who is begotten certainly cannot be equal to one who begets

When we speak of "Man", how many beings is that.

God is One, but God is CURRENTLY Two.

At the Resurrection, God will be countless more.

God is reproducing Himself thru Man.

This is why God created Man.

This is why Jesus is called the FIRSTBORN of many BRETHREN.

 

[hobelim]

Whether God is triune is an issue that confounded Christians even in the first four centuries. If God is almighty, then He is the only God. Two beings, God and the Son of God, can't both be almighty. And one who is begotten certainly cannot be equal to one who begets

When we speak of "Man", how many beings is that.

God is One, but God is CURRENTLY Two.

At the Resurrection, God will be countless more.

God is reproducing Himself thru Man.

This is why God created Man.

This is why Jesus is called the FIRSTBORN of many BRETHREN.

God is not one and then two and then many.. lol


When Jesus confronted the man possessed by a demon the demon said "we are many."

Who messed up and took over your mind with that multiple god garbage?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is one God BUT he is NOT Jesus nor the Holy spirit. Those are 2 separate entities. Jesus was clear in John on this issue.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Whether God is triune is an issue that confounded Christians even in the first four centuries. If God is almighty, then He is the only God. Two beings, God and the Son of God, can't both be almighty. And one who is begotten certainly cannot be equal to one who begets

When we speak of "Man", how many beings is that.

God is One, but God is CURRENTLY Two.

At the Resurrection, God will be countless more.

God is reproducing Himself thru Man.

This is why God created Man.

This is why Jesus is called the FIRSTBORN of many BRETHREN.

God is not one and then two and then many.. lol


When Jesus confronted the man possessed by a demon the demon said "we are many."

Who messed up and took over your mind with that multiple god garbage?

Answer my question. How many is "Man"?

The TRUTH is, Mankind was BORN to become Sons of God -- something never given to the angels.

How do you think Man (resurrected Man) will JUDGE THE ANGELS?

You err in not understanding the nature of God. God is a FAMILY of beings. Man is to be BORN AGAIN into that Family

 

[Carl in Michigan]

There is one God BUT he is NOT Jesus nor the Holy spirit. Those are 2 separate entities. Jesus was clear in John on this issue.

"Then they asked him, 'Where is your father?' 'You do not know me or my Father,' Jesus replied. 'If you knew me, you would know my Father also'" (John 8:19) "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (John 8:58). "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

"You do not know me OR my Father."

So God is at least 2 (for now, until the Resurrection of the dead)

 

[hobelim]

Whether God is triune is an issue that confounded Christians even in the first four centuries. If God is almighty, then He is the only God. Two beings, God and the Son of God, can't both be almighty. And one who is begotten certainly cannot be equal to one who begets

When we speak of "Man", how many beings is that.

God is One, but God is CURRENTLY Two.

At the Resurrection, God will be countless more.

God is reproducing Himself thru Man.

This is why God created Man.

This is why Jesus is called the FIRSTBORN of many BRETHREN.

God is not one and then two and then many.. lol


When Jesus confronted the man possessed by a demon the demon said "we are many."

Who messed up and took over your mind with that multiple god garbage?

Answer my question. How many is "Man"?

The TRUTH is, Mankind was BORN to become Sons of God -- something never given to the angels.

How do you think Man (resurrected Man) will JUDGE THE ANGELS?

You err in not understanding the nature of God. God is a FAMILY of beings. Man is to be BORN AGAIN into that Family

forgive me.

Your "God is currently two" sounded insane.

Care to explain?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

forgive me.

Your "God is currently two" sounded insane.

Care to explain?

Christ said it. I just quoted him. Why is that hard for you to accept? Are you Christian?

 

[hobelim]

There is one God BUT he is NOT Jesus nor the Holy spirit. Those are 2 separate entities. Jesus was clear in John on this issue.

"Then they asked him, 'Where is your father?' 'You do not know me or my Father,' Jesus replied. 'If you knew me, you would know my Father also'" (John 8:19) "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'" (John 8:58). "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

So God is at least 2 (for now, until the Resurrection of the dead)

No.

God alone is God.

Jesus being one with God is just Jesus being of one accord, in agreement , with the teaching that came into the world through Jesus from God. This is good, that is bad, this is right, that is wrong, this is life, that is death, etc.

Two Gods, minus Jesus who is not God and did not claim to be God, still equals one God.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Two Gods, minus Jesus who is not God, still equals one God.

And THERE lies your problem.

You reject Christ.

 

[hobelim]

Two Gods, minus Jesus who is not God, still equals one God.

And THERE lies your problem.

You reject Christ.

My problem lol...I don't think so..,

I am not the one who set aside the divine commands - under penalty of death - to worship a human being as if he was the living God.


I don't reject Christ, I reject your perverse beliefs about Jesus becoming a second God..


Jesus and I are one.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

He didn't "BECOME" a "second God", He is ETERNAL. HE has always been.

He was THE God the Israelites knew. He was that pillar of fire by night, and the cloud during the day. He was the Being that spoke to Moses.

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

What do you think that means?

"I saw Satan fall as lightening from heaven."

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God."

 

[hobelim]

He didn't "BECOME" a "second God", He is ETERNAL. HE has always been.

He was THE God the Israelites knew. He was that pillar of fire by night, and the cloud during the day. He was the Being that spoke to Moses.

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

What do you think that means?

"I saw Satan fall as lightening from heaven."

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God."

The word was with God, and the word was "like God" is the right translation.

the logos, the word, was with God, Ho Theos, and logos, the word, was "like God" , theos.

In greek without the definite article Ho before it as in Ho Theos, "The God", theos just means "like god" or "godlike."

The word became flesh just means that the preexisting metaphor for the word of God from the beginning, bread from heaven, became flesh, a new metaphor for teaching from God.

Jesus received this teaching and became theos, like God, by giving it for the life of the world.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It DOESNT say what you're trying to convince me of.

Do you call yourself Christian? You never answered. You reject Christ, because you reject what He clearly said about His divinity.

But I'll ask one more time: do you call yourself "Christian"?

 

[hobelim]

It DOESNT say what you're trying to convince me of.

Do you call yourself Christian? You never answered. You reject Christ, because you reject what He clearly said about His divinity.

But I'll ask one more time: do you call yourself "Christian"?

No. I don't call myself a "Christian".

Don't people who call themselves " Christian" have to admit that they are a worthless piece of shit and believe that Jesus is God to join the club?

After all that I have said, the question never ceases to amaze me.

 

[ding]

Whether God is triune is an issue that confounded Christians even in the first four centuries. If God is almighty, then He is the only God. Two beings, God and the Son of God, can't both be almighty. And one who is begotten certainly cannot be equal to one who begets.

Jesus tells us, though, that he and the Father are One, and that if we have seen him we seen the Father (John 10:30; 14:9).

Also, whatever is perfect does not change. God would have changed when He begat a Son and became a Father, i.e., something else. Therefore, He had always been the Father and Jesus always the Son.

The Nicene Creed could have gone either way, though, really; a council of bishops is really what determined the orthodoxy.

Dear norwegen
Please see my previous post about John 10:29-30
It is not in conflict to say that God is greater
and that the Son and Father are one at the same time.

If you take God Jesus and Holy Spirit to mean
Truth Justice and Peace, in practical terms,
then Truth encompasses all things universal,
Then Justice is a manifestation of Truth
in human relations and in collective society,
and Peace comes with that for all humanity to be one.
One with Justice and Truth. This is the Kingdom of God.

The manifestations are still distinct,
but all are one with God "at the same time."
There is no conflict, except if we make an issue
to nitpick with a neighbor on which angle we emphasize more.

God is still greater than all of us and things combined.
But we, through Christ, become ONE with God.

Universal/Equal Justice for All is ONE with God's Perfect all encompassing truth
while these are distinct "at the same time"

God is manifested as both LOVE and also TRUTH and WISDOM
yet love is different from wisdom.
These are both God manifesting in different contexts.

So God being the culmination of all these manifestations,
the forces of Life and Nature,
of Universal laws and good will,
of truth and wisdom.

All these things are God yet
God is always greater, like the whole is
greater than the sum of the parts.

Well said.