Zone1 Christianity built on gullibility.

[Cougarbear]

brain child - jesus was, native ... american.

Makes no sense…

 

[Meriweather]

that it affects no one

It desecrates the memory of the dead, so have some respect. There are also Bible passages that warn against contacting the dead. And, as you point out it does nothing--which says a lot about how dismissive the LDS Church is about their own Ordinances. There is nothing sacred about what is waste. There is nothing holy about being disrespectful of another's life and faith. There is something creepy about waiting for death to be so duplicitous and dishonest. If your Church would not grab me off the street while I am alive and force its baptism on me, all the more reason not to go through a pretense that I would be willing after death. You bring dishonor upon yourself.

Based on what you are telling me about what I "really" think about the origins of the Book of Mormon, you haven't a clue as to all the reasons I reject it. Which is why I generally just bypass discussions with you. We may as well be speaking different languages.

 

[Cougarbear]

It desecrates the memory of the dead, so have some respect. There are also Bible passages that warn against contacting the dead. And, as you point out it does nothing--which says a lot about how dismissive the LDS Church is about their own Ordinances. There is nothing sacred about what is waste. There is nothing holy about being disrespectful of another's life and faith. There is something creepy about waiting for death to be so duplicitous and dishonest. If your Church would not grab me off the street while I am alive and force its baptism on me, all the more reason not to go through a pretense that I would be willing after death. You bring dishonor upon yourself.

Based on what you are telling me about what I "really" think about the origins of the Book of Mormon, you haven't a clue as to all the reasons I reject it. Which is why I generally just bypass discussions with you. We may as well be speaking different languages.

Only to those who believe it works. If you believe our works, work, then you would believe we are desecrating the dead. I don't care about your memories. I care about the people who have died without a full knowledge of Jesus Christ and his true Gospel that are wanting for me to baptize them vicariously. Why don't you try to have respect for their desires to be baptized and have eternal life? Instead, you spew out religious bigotry having no knowledge of the truth. And, no, there are no bible passages warning against contacting the dead. The fact is, we aren't contacting the dead you moron. We are doing the work for them vicariously. If they want to contact us, fine. But, we aren't doing seances. Good grief.

You keep on with this nonsense about disrespecting someone's life. The truth is, that is you and those that attempt to keep those who have died from receiving the saving and eternal life ordinances they want and need. It's you interfering with them.

I have no clue what you mean about "waiting for death?" Who is waiting for death? I'm not. I'm living life to its fullest. And, rejoicing in helping my ancestors to receive the ordinance work they so want.

Then, you say something really moronic like a Church is grabbing you while you are walking on the streets and forcing you to be baptized. What a nutcase! Are you on LSD or something? Who has forced you into a pool of water and baptized you without your consent. You are a liar. The more you write the more you being dishonor to yourself with lies and innuendos. Trying to force the dead not to receive their just rewards by authoritative ordinances that the Bible teaches.

 

[Meriweather]

Only to those who believe it works. If you believe our works, work, then you would believe we are desecrating the dead.

LISTEN. Stop telling me what I believe. LISTEN to what I believe. I do not believe your Baptism of the dead works for a number of reason.

In your Baptism of the dead, you will have a proxy do the same thing you are doing right now. YOU are telling ME what I believe. I believe it is wrong--be it a religious organization, an atheist, a government, a corporation to put words into anyone's mouth saying that individual believes something they do not. A lie that is being put into another's mouth is wrong--no matter who does it to whom or for what reason.

One of the greatest gifts God bestowed upon us was freedom of choice. The LDS church seems to believe that they have the right to take away this freedom and record baptisms into the LDS church of those who have no wish for this baptism--not when they are alive and not by proxy after they are dead. It is disrespectful to the individual. It is disrespectful to God and His gift to humanity of freedom to choose. Placing oneself above the power of God is arrogance.

You can talk all day and into next week about why YOU believe you should baptize deceased Jews, Catholics, Hindus, Atheists, etc. However, I won't stand for YOU telling ME what I believe. A conscience shouldn't need soothing that badly that it must lie to oneself about what others "must" believe in order to make those proxy baptisms palatable.

 

[Meriweather]

The truth is, that is you and those that attempt to keep those who have died from receiving the saving and eternal life ordinances they want and need.

There are many of us who believe the power of God goes well beyond the power of the LDS Church. The LDS Church claims God cannot grant anyone His own saving power and/or eternal life without a ritual from the LDS Church.

 

[Meriweather]

Then, you say something really moronic like a Church is grabbing you while you are walking on the streets and forcing you to be baptized.

Once again, you are not listening. I asked you if the LDS Church believed in grabbing someone off the street and performing their baptism? Or, why not grab a city directory and proxy baptize those who are still alive? But you believe in searching death records and baptizing the names you find there. I asked a question. What is the difference of when/how the LDS Church forces someone into their baptism, forces words into their mouths by proxy?

 

[Cougarbear]

LISTEN. Stop telling me what I believe. LISTEN to what I believe. I do not believe your Baptism of the dead works for a number of reason.

In your Baptism of the dead, you will have a proxy do the same thing you are doing right now. YOU are telling ME what I believe. I believe it is wrong--be it a religious organization, an atheist, a government, a corporation to put words into anyone's mouth saying that individual believes something they do not. A lie that is being put into another's mouth is wrong--no matter who does it to whom or for what reason.

One of the greatest gifts God bestowed upon us was freedom of choice. The LDS church seems to believe that they have the right to take away this freedom and record baptisms into the LDS church of those who have no wish for this baptism--not when they are alive and not by proxy after they are dead. It is disrespectful to the individual. It is disrespectful to God and His gift to humanity of freedom to choose. Placing oneself above the power of God is arrogance.

You can talk all day and into next week about why YOU believe you should baptize deceased Jews, Catholics, Hindus, Atheists, etc. However, I won't stand for YOU telling ME what I believe. A conscience shouldn't need soothing that badly that it must lie to oneself about what others "must" believe in order to make those proxy baptisms palatable.

Your words condemn you. I'm not telling you what you believe. You are telling me with your words. So, stop telling me I'm putting words in your mouth. You are telling me what you believe and I respond based on what you write.
So, if you don't believe our baptisms for the dead work, then it's not disturbing the dead at all. So, why do you care if I do their work for them? That argument never makes sense.
Your statement that the Church takes away freedoms is asinine. We have every right to ask you or anyone else if they would like to hear our message. If you agree, then we aren't taking away any freedoms. If you study and eventually come to a position of where the missionaries ask you if you would like to be baptized, you have a choice to say yes or no. No one has ever dragged you off by your hair and thrown you into the water. Has anyone in the Church ever forced you to be baptized? No. When my children and grandchildren reached the age of accountability of 8 years of age, the missionaries asked if they could teach them about baptism. They all agreed. Then, after the lessons, they were asked if they wanted to be baptized. They had a choice to say yes or no. All 5 of them pondered the question and said yes. All of them came to the knowledge of the Holy Ghost and received the HG testimony. They were then asked who they would like for them to baptized them. They all chose me to baptize them. I've also baptized friends of mine as well. No one forced them to be baptized. Some took several years before being baptized. Some have never been baptized and are still my friends. You are a liar and false bearer.
As far as the power of God. The Priesthood is the power and authority of God given to man to do His work on the earth for the people living and those that have died. So, we have been given that authority by God to do this work. So, bug off.
Our Father in Heaven has stated that it is His purpose to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. He has set the requirements for entrance into the highest degree of glory and exaltation. It starts with faith in Christ, repentance, baptism and receiving conformation and the Holy Ghost. Baptism is essential for exaltation. It is not essential to enter into the lower kingdoms of Heaven (1Corinthians chapter 15). So, for those in the spirit world who seek exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, baptism is still essential and I will do this charitable work for them. For, Charity is the pure love of Christ. I will not let you or anyone try to make me feel bad for charitable work for the dead. You can choose to keep the dead from progressing and that is your choice. A sick choice for causing the damnation of souls who have died preventing them from getting the necessary ordinances done for them.

 

[Cougarbear]

There are many of us who believe the power of God goes well beyond the power of the LDS Church. The LDS Church claims God cannot grant anyone His own saving power and/or eternal life without a ritual from the LDS Church.

That is correct. The reason is simple. God's power is the Priesthood. In order to allow mankind living and dead to keep the ability of free moral agency to choose for ourselves right and wrong, God does little interference with mankind. Instead, He calls his servants, the prophets to administer His power and authority through the Priesthood after the order of the Son of God. As Paul called it in the Book of Hebrews, the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek and Aaron (Levitical). The lesser Priesthood (Aaronic) and the Higher Priesthood (Melchizedek). So, there are no other ways to administer the saving ordinances of the Gospel. Jesus Christ came and restored His Church after centuries of apostasy. He has organized it as it was in ancient times through the Priesthood given first to Joseph Smith, the lesser Priesthood, by John the Baptist and then the higher Priesthood by Peter, James and John, and then conferred upon others from generation to generation. God is a God of order, not confusion saying anyone can do whatever they want contrary to others. That's just stupid. So no, the power doesn't go beyond that which God established in 1830.

 

[Cougarbear]

Once again, you are not listening. I asked you if the LDS Church believed in grabbing someone off the street and performing their baptism? Or, why not grab a city directory and proxy baptize those who are still alive? But you believe in searching death records and baptizing the names you find there. I asked a question. What is the difference of when/how the LDS Church forces someone into their baptism, forces words into their mouths by proxy?

We don't force anyone to accept the baptism by proxy. The dead can accept the work or reject the word. Just like you can while living. What you want is to force the dead not to have their work done when they want it done. It's you that is forcing tyranny on those who have died by not allowing their work to be done so they can move from spirit prison hell to paradise and be with their families. You can do what ever you want to. But, so can we. And, we choose to give to the dead who had no knowledge of these ordinances and doctrine when they were alive. So that in the resurrection, they will rise to the Celestial Kingdom with family members of past, present and future. You want to deny them of this.
In the Book of Mormon, Lehi had a dream that had a large and spacious building of a huge number of personages in it shouting at those on the path to the tree of life attempting to persuade them from reaching the tree of life. That's what you are trying to do. You are those evil ones in that building trying to stop the work of God from going forth causing people to lose focus and fall into the filthy waters of apostasy. You should be ashamed of yourself damning the progress of those who seek their baptism by proxy from those who are alive today.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not telling you what you believe

Well, if you are not bothering to read your own posts, I see no reason to, either.

 

[rupol2000]

the core of Christianity is built on the slave ideology of the empire of the German elites. Humility before the villain and slavery.

 

[BreezeWood]

Makes no sense…

that's your greco/roman jesus administering native americans ...

to your dilusion, no - jesus was not a roman ...

 

[Cougarbear]

Well, if you are not bothering to read your own posts, I see no reason to, either.

I can read. You can’t. I am inviting you to find out. But no missionary has ever forced you into a pool of water and without your consent baptize you. I don’t agree with certain doctrine of other religions but I’m willing to listen without having a feminine conception fit (A sexist would say!)
You need to grow some balls and get a backbone.

 

[Meriweather]

You can’t.

The thread is about religion, not me. There is a lot of available research pertaining to the LDS faith. It is the reason for not paying much attention to threads pertaining to the LDS Church. I believe God reaches those who reach out to Him; I believe the religious faith that is closer to truth is about a mm in front of all the others. All that being said and inclusive of the LDS faith, I would follow any religion or become an atheist before ever attending any Mormon event. Based on in depth research. The Holy Spirit was right. There is nothing in the LDS faith for me. Not when I was 14. Not through the years of study and research. And definitely not reading through posts in this thread. Farewell.

 

[Cougarbear]

The thread is about religion, not me. There is a lot of available research pertaining to the LDS faith. It is the reason for not paying much attention to threads pertaining to the LDS Church. I believe God reaches those who reach out to Him; I believe the religious faith that is closer to truth is about a mm in front of all the others. All that being said and inclusive of the LDS faith, I would follow any religion or become an atheist before ever attending any Mormon event. Based on in depth research. The Holy Spirit was right. There is nothing in the LDS faith for me. Not when I was 14. Not through the years of study and research. And definitely not reading through posts in this thread. Farewell.

And WHOMP!!! Pinned and down for the count. "The thread is about religion, not me." LOL!!! It's about your religious beliefs that no one can ask you a question like "Would you like to know more about Jesus Christ in this book (Book of Mormon)?" Or, would you like your ancestors baptized with proper Priesthood Authority? You then have a meltdown conniption fit. What do m&m candies have to do with God?
Yes, there is much written on many churches and I'm glad for it. The anti-Mormon stuff actually helps more than hinders. Their ridiculous attempts to keep people from investigating the Church actually helps in recruiting those who have true faith in Christ. The members that it seems to hurt were looking for a way out anyways. Too much sacrifice needed for them. They want to sleep with multiple sex partners, same-sex partners and much more creepy nonsense against the laws of God. You are a very closeminded person. We have members whose spouses are atheists and attend several event through the years. They are non-judgmental as you are. And, they are okay with being corrected about their wrongful understandings. But you?

 

[Meriweather]

Pinned and down for the count

Shrug. You didn't listen and you are not listening still. Doubt you ever will. Then again, I stopped reading last night. Just let the cursor land where it will. Quote wherever it lands and skip the rest. Peace.

 

[Cougarbear]

Shrug. You didn't listen and you are not listening still. Doubt you ever will. Then again, I stopped reading last night. Just let the cursor land where it will. Quote wherever it lands and skip the rest. Peace.

Winners never quit and quitters never win. See, it is you that doesn't listen (read) You have been rebuked by the Spirit of God.

 

[Meriweather]

Winners never quit and quitters never win. See, it is you that doesn't listen (read) You have been rebuked by the Spirit of God.

Oh? More like guided away from it. Have the last word, because I am done. What a fruitless discussion.

 

[Cougarbear]

Oh? More like guided away from it. Have the last word, because I am done. What a fruitless discussion.

It was a good discussion until you did the spinning game and couldn't answer my logic and reasoning which is Godly. You tried to spew lies about members of the Church as well as the Church. But, I rebuked those attempts with stellar logic and reasoning.

 

[Meriweather]

t was a good discussion

You rang?