Christians - Predestination: Yes or No?

[Bonzi]

God being Sovereign, are we all born predestined to go to Heaven or Hell?

That being said, there is nothing we can do to alter our fate. Correct?

 

[Auld Phart]

Heaven

our actions after birth decide the direction

 

[Compost]

God gave us free will. We are not puppets on strings playing out a predestined drama.

 

[Jackson]

God being Sovereign, are we all born predestined to go to Heaven or Hell?

That being said, there is nothing we can do to alter our fate. Correct?

We all have choices to make. Certainly we can change our fate just by the choices we make.

 

[Pete7469]

I'm sure there are predestined things that happen and we have to make the right choices.

 

[Bonzi]

So, God does not determine, before time, if we are to go to Heaven or Hell then, correct?

 

[Bonzi]

The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission

 

[Bonzi]

I would assume, that includes whether we go to Heaven or Hell.....

 

[Steven_R]

God gave us free will. We are not puppets on strings playing out a predestined drama.

And yet God repeatedly hardened Pharaoh's heart. And someone had to betray Jesus so He could fulfill His destiny.

 

[the_human_being]

In reality though, if one claims to believe the Bible then one must accept the doctrine of predestination for Paul made an issue of it.

 

[Compost]

I would assume, that includes whether we go to Heaven or Hell.....

God gave us free will. We are not puppets on strings playing out a predestined drama.

And yet God repeatedly hardened Pharaoh's heart. And someone had to betray Jesus so He could fulfill His destiny.

Pharaoh still had free will. And if Judus had changed his mind Jesus would still have fulfilled His destiny.

If we are simply puppets, we would not be able to have this conversation.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Sort of & sort of not. It's not quite that simple. Yes predetermined in that God, being the Soveriegn Creator, already knows the end of the story, but as we humans live out our lives, we are continually given the free will to make choices that direct our paths along the way. It's not just the beginning or the end, but the journey thru. Our ultimate choice is to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord & Savior and thru Him, accept God as Supreme and faith in His love for us.

This doesn't even come close to describe the reality.....but the best I can come up with.

 

[Compost]

In reality though, if one claims to believe the Bible then one must accept the doctrine of predestination for Paul made an issue of it.

Paul also made an issue of our need to cooperate with His will.

 

[Bonzi]

But God hardened Pharaoh's heart.....

Exodus 9: 10-12

10 So they took soot from a furnace and stood before Pharaoh. Moses tossed it into the air, and festering boils broke out on people and animals. 11 The magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils that were on them and on all the Egyptians. 12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron

 

[Compost]

But God hardened Pharaoh's heart.....

Exodus 9: 10-12

10 So they took soot from a furnace and stood before Pharaoh. Moses tossed it into the air, and festering boils broke out on people and animals. 11 The magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils that were on them and on all the Egyptians. 12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron

Pharaoh still had his own mind to consult. He still had his counselors to listen to. His heart was hardened but it wasn't shut down.

 

[Missourian]

This is actually a question of science, and not religion.

God, being all-knowing, is not restricted by the linear flow of time that we are. Think of it as more of a question of perspective.

Imagine that I built a time machine and traveled into the future to the moment of your death. From my perspective, everything you are going to do, every choice you are going to make...it's already been made.

That doesn't mean you didn't have free will. If I return to this moment, you still have all those freewill choices ahead of you. I just have special knowledge of the final result of the culmination of your choices, and their ultimate results.

The choice is ultimately yours. You know what it takes to get into Heaven...you make the choices that will either get you their, or not. It's just that, without the illusion of the flow of time, looking back from the End of Days, you've already made them.

 

[Steven_R]

The Bible specifically says the Pharaoh was letting the Jews go (repeatedly) until God made him change his mind.

And Jesus wasn't going to end up on the Cross if someone didn't drop a dime on him.

 

[Bonzi]

I personally don't believe (or don't want to believe) in predestination.
Yet, there is much in the Bible that point to the contrary (and also, much in the Bible that points to God's will that none be lost) -

It's a debate that has been raging for centuries.

 

[Bonzi]

which brings us back to....

The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I have had problems with the biblical hell since I was a small child.
It never made sense to me.
If you take a person who was never really introduced to religion, but lived their lives morally and ethically - ON THEIR OWN WILL...this person a "loving" God will burn in eternal flames forever?? But you take a different person, and they are not as moral and ethical, but get baptized and ask forgiveness of their sins and try to live moral-ethical - BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF HELL...and God grants this person immunity and they live in heaven?
Really???
What kind of God would do that? Not one I would think too highly of.