Christians Pushing Back In Nigeria

[NATO AIR]

This is exactly the kind of argument used by lynch mobs.

What you are defending is lynch mob behavior,
and I do not believe you yourself would become
part of a lynch mob under any circumstances.

The Muslims in southern Nigeria were lynch mob
victims who had nothing to do with the atrocities
commited by their brethren in the North.

Agreed about lynch mobs, but consider that a significant number of the Muslims in the South have become radicalized by Saudi funded madrassas and mosques, as well as by the understandably hostile reaction to their attempts to spread sharia.

This is the story of upper-sub-saharan Africa, the coming constant and bloody conflict between Muslims and Christians.

 

[USViking]

Agreed about lynch mobs, but consider that a significant number of the Muslims in the South have become radicalized by Saudi funded madrassas and mosques, as well as by the understandably hostile reaction to their attempts to spread sharia.

I have not heard of any attempts to spread
sharia outside the northern Muslim areas.

Naturally the non-Muslims are entitled to
resist its implementaion elsewhere.

Naturally this resistance may rightfully
be by any means necessary except
for forming lynch mobs.

Whether the non-Muslims do the right thing,
and prove themselves better than the Muslims
remains to be seen.

This is the story of upper-sub-saharan Africa, the coming constant and bloody conflict between Muslims and Christians.

I am myself not confident enough to predict the
future in such detail.

 

[Annie]

I have not heard of any attempts to spread
sharia outside the northern Muslim areas.

Check this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1962827.stm

http://www.usafricaonline.com/shariashowdown_chido.html

http://www.usafricaonline.com/fubaradw.shariairaq.html

One case where Sharia was overturned:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec03/sharia_9-29.html

Naturally the non-Muslims are entitled to
resist its implementaion elsewhere.

Naturally this resistance may rightfully
be by any means necessary except
for forming lynch mobs.

Whether the non-Muslims do the right thing,
and prove themselves better than the Muslims
remains to be seen.





I am myself not confident enough to predict the
future in such detail.[/QUOTE]

 

[USViking]

Check this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1962827.stm

http://www.usafricaonline.com/shariashowdown_chido.html

http://www.usafricaonline.com/fubaradw.shariairaq.html

One case where Sharia was overturned:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec03/sharia_9-29.html

The first link describes an attempt 3.5 years ago
to promulgate Sharia in Oyo, which is in SW Nigeria.

I share your wish this has been thwarted. I was
unable to find more up to date news on the issue.
Can you?

The next two links rehash the well-known atrocious
behavior of Muslims in predominantly Muslim areas.
I am afraid the only recourse for non-Muslims in
such areas is to leave, and I wish them God speed,
and a safe haven.

The last link does not describe any overturning of Sharia,
it describes the overruling of the verdict of one Muslim
court by a higher Muslim court, both presumably Sharia.

I think what I said elsewhere in my last post bears
repeating, and here it is:

Naturally the non-Muslims are entitled to
resist its implementaion elsewhere.

Naturally this resistance may rightfully
be by any means necessary except
for forming lynch mobs.

Whether the non-Muslims do the right thing,
and prove themselves better than the Muslims
remains to be seen.

 

[Annie]

The first link describes an attempt 3.5 years ago
to promulgate Sharia in Oyo, which is in SE Nigeria.

I share your wish this has been thwarted. I was
unable to find more up to date news on the issue.
Can you?

The next two links rehash the well-known atrocious
behavior of Muslims in predominantly Muslim areas.
I am afraid the only recourse for non-Muslims in
such areas is to leave, and I wish them God speed,
and a safe haven.

The last link does not describe any overturning of Sharia,
it describes the overruling of the verdict of one Muslim
court by a higher Muslim court, both presumably Sharia.

I think what I said elsewhere in my last post bears
repeating, and here it is:







I am myself not confident enough to predict the
future in such detail.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


Ok, the only response of the Christians in Africa or the West is dhimmitude or running. Some of us will disagree.

 

[USViking]

Ok, the only response of the Christians in Africa or the West is dhimmitude or running. Some of us will disagree.

I disagree as well.

They should take their stand where they have
a chance of success, outside the majority-Muslim
areas.

I myself would resist with deadly, violent force
if I had to.

On the other hand, I would rather not take my own
final stand in the middle of a Muslim mob, in an area
ruled by such mobs.

 

[Annie]

I disagree as well.

They should take their stand where they have
a chance of success, outside the majority-Muslim
areas.

I myself would resist with deadly, violent force
if I had to.

On the other hand, I would rather not take my own
final stand in the middle of a Muslim mob, in an area
ruled by such mobs.

So Israel should run as well? Perhaps France in 15-20 years?

 

[USViking]

So Israel should run as well? Perhaps France in 15-20 years?

Israel has shown an ability to keep what
it now has, and then some, if it pleases.

I hope the non-Muslims in places such as
Nigeria can do as well.

France has shown a willingness, unique in
the West as far as I know, to exile Muslim
radicals, and to enforce a rigorous secularity
in all its public institutions. They should
keep on doing what they are now.

Its problem is that its Muslim population
will be larger than its European population
within 50 years, if present trends continue.
WTF they are going to do if that happens
I couldn't tell you.

 

[Annie]

Israel has shown an ability to keep what
it now has, and then some, if it pleases.

I hope the non-Muslims in places such as
Nigeria can do as well.

France has shown a willingness, unique in
the West as far as I know, to exile Muslim
radicals, and to enforce a rigorous secularity
in all its public institutions. They should
keep on doing what they are now.

Its problem is that its Muslim population
will be larger than its European population
within 50 years, if present trends continue.
WTF they are going to do if that happens
I couldn't tell you.

Unless something drastic changes, isn't going to take 50 years for France. The Netherlands and Denmark have significant > 5% Muslim populations combined with very low birth rates for 'natives'.

 

[USViking]

Unless something drastic changes, isn't going to take 50 years for France. The Netherlands and Denmark have significant > 5% Muslim populations combined with very low birth rates for 'natives'.

It's going to be a problem.

Your guess is as good as mine as to what
takes place.

I started a thread here earlier in which
I recommended halting the immigration
by Muslims to the West.That would be
half a start, since it won't affect trends
already taking place within the present
permanent population.

I hope well before France becomes majority
Muslim the European element makes sure
it has as much of a monopoly of coersive
force as possible, so that it can compel the
majority, if still unassimilated, to abide by
Western law and the essential modern rule
of separation of Church and state.

Maybe even- sacre bleu!- the native French
will reverse their own 150+ year tradition,
and start having enough children to increase
their numbers.

 

[Annie]

It's going to be a problem.

Your guess is as good as mine as to what
takes place.

I started a thread here earlier in which
I recommended halting the immigration
by Muslims to the West.That would be
half a start, since it won't affect trends
already taking place within the present
permanent population.

I hope well before France becomes majority
Muslim the European element makes sure
it has as much of a monopoly of coersive
force as possible, so that it can compel the
majority, if still unassimilated, to abide by
Western law and the essential modern rule
of separation of Church and state.

Maybe even- sacre bleu!- the native French
will reverse their own 150+ year tradition,
and start having enough children to increase
their numbers.

I think you are dreaming on all counts. Most of Europe appears to be, which I grant could be upended, truly secularist. When was the last time you saw a 'godless' people stand up for anything against a threat?

 

[USViking]

I think you are dreaming on all counts. Most of Europe appears to be, which I grant could be upended, truly secularist. When was the last time you saw a 'godless' people stand up for anything against a threat?

I am not dreaming on any count, except maybe
the native French birth rate.

You and I do not hold the same views on God.
We do hold the same view on Sharia, as in
"over my dead body".

I have no doubt the 'godless' secular French
feel the same way, to the last man and woman.

And the 'godless' USSR turned in quite a performance
against the Nazis 1941-45, as you know perfectly well.

 

[Annie]

I am not dreaming on any count, except maybe
the native French birth rate.

You and I do not hold the same views on God.
We do hold the same view on Sharia, as in
"over my dead body".

I have no doubt the 'godless' secular French
feel the same way, to the last man and woman.

And the 'godless' USSR turned in quite a performance
against the Nazis 1941-45, as you know perfectly well.

With the remnants of the czar and fighting on their own homeland. True what you say about 'sharing views' of God, but I'm NOT speaking of God, I'm speaking of god(s), including a Stalin.

 

[theim]

Religious tensions have been rising in Nigeria for years now. This kind of violence is not rare, its just being widely reported by the media to discredit the Christians in the face of the Islamist riots.

It will end in civil war, with the US and EU having to intervene, and Nigeria becoming two, perhaps three to five different countries. Which is the natural, and to be honest, necessary solution to this problem. The Islamic north wants to revert to the Dark Ages, complete with an African version of the Taliban (with all the African trimmings of tribal mystics, witchcraft and tribal bloodlust).

The sooner this happens, the better for US security (as it allows us to have a clearly defined enemy, not a problematic province or two in a friendly country that leads to a bloody insurgency and counterinsurgency that we'd have to bankroll) and for Africa. The Christian countries (perhaps 1, or more likely, 2-3) that come out of this deal will be our allies, and will have a fresh chance to become effective nations. The Muslim ones will be our enemies, and we will have to deal with them at some point as they become havens for terrorists.

Quite optimistic of you. May I ask what events in the last decade and a half convinced you that the US and EU will do anything at all, except sit back and watch the entire country slaughter itself?

 

[Annie]

Quite optimistic of you. May I ask what events in the last decade and a half convinced you that the US and EU will do anything at all, except sit back and watch the entire country slaughter itself?

I must agree with you, barring their getting and becoming aggressive enough to be a proxy here for Iran, Syria, or that ilk.

 

[USViking]

With the remnants of the czar and fighting on their own homeland. True what you say about 'sharing views' of God, but I'm NOT speaking of God, I'm speaking of god(s), including a Stalin.

"The remnants of the czar" played no role
whatever in USSR resistance that I have
ever heard of.

Resolute defence of one's homeland is a
near constant of human nature, regardless
of the homeland's ruling party.

And if you think a God, a "god", or a Stalin
is necessary for free men to defend their
freedom with force, then you are in a dream-world yourself.

 

[Annie]

"The remnants of the czar" played no role
whatever in USSR resistance that I have
ever heard of.

Resolute defence of one's homeland is a
near constant of human nature, regardless
of the homeland's ruling party.

And if you think a God, a "god", or a Stalin
is necessary for free men to defend their
freedom with force, then you are in a dream-world yourself.

Remnants of the czar was not referring to leadership, but the rank and file discipline and 'love of country and God'. To think that died out, just check out the icons brought out after the fall of USSR.

Resolute defense of the homeland without a god(s), show me.

 

[trobinett]

USViking posts:

Maybe even- sacre bleu!- the native French
will reverse their own 150+ year tradition,
and start having enough children to increase
their numbers.
[/qutoe]

Really, you DON`T think, that for a moment, MORE people is the answer to this problem?

The French haven`t had it right, for, oh, I don`t know, FOREVER.

Why look to them for any answer`s?

This whole deal is a tender box of emotions, fueled by religious fury, I certainly couldn`t begin to tell you how it`s all going to "shake" out.

Pretty scary really.

 

[USViking]

Remnants of the czar was not referring to leadership, but the rank and file discipline and 'love of country

So we agree here.

and God'.

But not here. To what extent the rank and file
still believed in God as more than a slogan, I do
not know. I suspect feelings toward Him might
best be described as tepid.

In any case, while love of country is essential
for an effective defence, I do not agree love
of God is either necessary or sufficient, and I
think the USSR case supports my view more
than yours.

To think that died out, just check out the icons brought out after the fall of USSR.

Oh please- you do not really believe hawking icons
is evidence of religious conviction , do you? I would
think if these icons were held in any reverence they
would not be parted with. Also, I suspect most if not
all of them predate the USSR.

Resolute defense of the homeland without a god(s), show me.

I am satisfied with my earlier comments,
and I have nothing to add.

 

[Annie]

So we agree here.





But not here. To what extent the rank and file
still believed in God as more than a slogan, I do
not know. I suspect feelings toward Him might
best be described as tepid.

In any case, while love of country is essential
for an effective defence, I do not agree love
of God is either necessary or sufficient, and I
think the USSR case supports my view more
than yours.





Oh please- you do not really believe hawking icons
is evidence of religious conviction , do you? I would
think if these icons were held in any reverence they
would not be parted with. Also, I suspect most if not
all of them predate the USSR.







I am satisfied with my earlier comments,
and I have nothing to add.

Ok, speaks for itself. No arguments.