Church denies funeral to gay man

[ChrisL]

I don't call it magic.

Have you have ever seen a car going 40 mph, hit your 10 year old daughter, who was crossing the road, going to school. And your daughter have nothing more than a scraped knee?

Your precious doctors said there was no way she had been hit by a car, yet the police say the car was travelling around 40 when it hit her.

Have you ever seen your daughter fly over a car, from the impact of it?

I HAVE, there is no one on this earth, that can convince me that there is no God, and this is just one reason.

That is luck and probably has something to do with how and where she was hit. More than likely it has nothing to do with God. IF there is a God, he does not intervene.

 

[Wake]

This church believes homosexuality is a sin. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor does that mean they hate the person. They feel it's a sin, and that is their opinion and their right. If the family of the gay man doesn't like that, there are plenty of other churches out there. I suspect people are using his death as a tool against others in this religious debate and, if true, that is shameful, and not surprising.

 

[ChrisL]

It must drive you insane to know that there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world.

Now, go show me the science that proves the missing link between apes and people, or the science that shows the homosexual gene. Show me why a tornado destroys every house on a block, but one. Show me life on other planets. You have your faith, I have mine.

I don't call you ignorant for your faith, or tell you how you should view your faith. And most importantly, I don't try to deny you your faith, yet you would deny others theirs.

Glad we live in America, where bigots don't have the power to usurp one's religion. Too bad for you!

What is this nonsense? I am not a bigot. I just find your beliefs to be rather silly. My aunt is also religious. I am more of an agnostic, in that I can't claim that I believe but I think it could be a possibility. However, I certainly don't buy all of the biblical nonsense. Those are stories and nothing more, obviously.

 

[ChrisL]

This church believes homosexuality is a sin. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor does that mean they hate the person. They feel it's a sin, and that is their opinion and their right. If the family of the gay man doesn't like that, there are plenty of other churches out there. I suspect people are using his death as a tool against others in this religious debate and, if true, that is shameful, and not surprising.

Well, this is a message board and we are ALL entitled to give our opinions regarding what this church has done, and many of us feel that this church is wrong and goes against what God would want and that they must be cruel people.

 

[Wake]

Well, this is a message board and we are ALL entitled to give our opinions regarding what this church has done, and many of us feel that this church is wrong and goes against what God would want and that they must be cruel people.

I too believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. Some feel the church is wrong, and some don't. If a church decided to not hold a funeral for any individual for any sin, that's entirely within their rights as well. I suspect this is yet another orchestrated attempt by members of GLAAD and/or some other radical group trying to stir the pot and incite anger. They've only been doing that for years.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Well, this is a message board and we are ALL entitled to give our opinions regarding what this church has done, and many of us feel that this church is wrong and goes against what God would want and that they must be cruel people.

This is a farcical position. If people believe in God then they can trace back their beliefs through the ages right back to the moment that God spelled out his beliefs to his chosen messengers. Through all the millennia everyone understood that homosexuality was a sin. Now you and other misguided people have substituted your position for the received wisdom of God and you have the chutzpah to tell religious people who are following millennia long established practices that they're wrong and that you're right and that God wants homosexuals to be married in his Churches.

 

[ChrisL]

This is a farcical position. If people believe in God then they can trace back their beliefs through the ages right back to the moment that God spelled out his beliefs to his chosen messengers. Through all the millennia everyone understood that homosexuality was a sin. Now you and other misguided people have substituted your position for the received wisdom of God and you have the chutzpah to tell religious people who are following millennia long established practices that they're wrong and that you're right and that God wants homosexuals to be married in his Churches.

Nope, it's the religious who tell everyone else they are wrong, constantly. They are very judgmental and not always very nice or good people. Some of them have the arrogance to believe that because they go to church on Sunday, that is their automatic ticket into Heaven and a pass to act like a jerk for the rest of the week. Lol! Tis truth, so sayeth ChrisL.

 

[ChrisL]

I too believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. Some feel the church is wrong, and some don't. If a church decided to not hold a funeral for any individual for any sin, that's entirely within their rights as well. I suspect this is yet another orchestrated attempt by members of GLAAD and/or some other radical group trying to stir the pot and incite anger. They've only been doing that for years.

I just try to put this mother's shoes on for a moment, and think about how this would make me feel, and I can tell you that it would make me feel hurt and horrible.

And so what if they think it's a sin. Like I said before, that is for God to decide, not another human being who is also flawed.

 

[Wake]

And so what if they think it's a sin. Like I said before, that is for God to decide, not another human being who is also flawed.

That can be said for absolutely every sin in the Bible.

*I'm borderline atheist, and don't believe in the notions of right and wrong, because they don't truly exist.

 

[ChrisL]

That can be said for absolutely every sin in the Bible.

*I'm borderline atheist, and don't believe in the notions of right and wrong, because they don't truly exist.

Well, I don't believe THAT.

No, the same cannot be said for all sins. A murderer has harmed other people. A gay person has harmed nobody just for being gay.

 

[House]

No, Christ is saying that such demonstrates that Satan's kingdom will fall because it is divided. Look at the far right reactionaries who are divided amongst themselves, or the libertarians who can't agree on anything.

No Jake, he was illustrating the faulty logic in their claims that his power to cast out demons came from Satan.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't call it magic.

Have you have ever seen a car going 40 mph, hit your 10 year old daughter, who was crossing the road, going to school. And your daughter have nothing more than a scraped knee?

Your precious doctors said there was no way she had been hit by a car, yet the police say the car was travelling around 40 when it hit her.

Have you ever seen your daughter fly over a car, from the impact of it?

I HAVE, there is no one on this earth, that can convince me that there is no God, and this is just one reason.

BTW, sorry about your daughter. That must have been very traumatic experience to witness. Thankfully she wasn't seriously injured.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No Jake, he was illustrating the faulty logic in their claims that his power to cast out demons came from Satan.

Nope, Satan certainly has the power to chastise his demons even unto casting them out.

This is what I mean about Biblical literalism being "error", heresy.

 

[ChrisL]

Simply remember that Ulysses is not authorized to speak for God, that he does not understand the scripture, and that he wishes to take away human rights in the cause of his heresy of biblical literalism.

I'm not sure what he thinks, and I'm certainly not trying to offend him (although I probably already have - Lol). I just think some of these churches and church goers should be a little more compassionate towards people who are different and have different beliefs than they do. And I still don't see why they cannot give him a funeral and let God sort out who is a sinner and who should or should not go to Heaven. I'm certainly not a gay rights activist or anything; I just feel sorry for the family, and it's just really mean-spirited, IMO. By their refusal, they aren't hurting the gay man, they are hurting his family.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I'm not sure what he thinks, and I'm certainly not trying to offend him (although I probably already have - Lol). I just think some of these churches and church goers should be a little more compassionate towards people who are different and have different beliefs than they do. And I still don't see why they cannot give him a funeral and let God sort out who is a sinner and who should or should not go to Heaven. I'm certainly not a gay rights activist or anything; I just feel sorry for the family, and it's just really mean-spirited, IMO. By their refusal, they aren't hurting the gay man, they are hurting his family.

The point of having standards, rules, laws, and sins, is that those who refuse to obey them are targeted in one fashion or another. What you're doing is buying into the liberal notion of judgment and standards being bad things. One of the Ten Commandments of the Liberal Religion is "Do not Judge (unless the target is a conservative) for being judgmental means you are a lower form of being."

 

[ChrisL]

The point of having standards, rules, laws, and sins, is that those who refuse to obey them are targeted in one fashion or another. What you're doing is buying into the liberal notion of judgment and standards being bad things. One of the Ten Commandments of the Liberal Religion is "Do not Judge (unless the target is a conservative) for being judgmental means you are a lower form of being."

I'm buying anything at all. I have my own beliefs for my own reasons, just like anyone else. As I stated, I don't see a reason why people need to make these judgments against another person who has harmed absolutely nobody.

 

[House]

Nope, Satan certainly has the power to chastise his demons even unto casting them out.

This is what I mean about Biblical literalism being "error", heresy.

Your faulty statement was about demons casting out other demons, not Satan.

Details matter.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I'm buying anything at all. I have my own beliefs for my own reasons, just like anyone else. As I stated, I don't see a reason why people need to make these judgments against another person who has harmed absolutely nobody.

Judgment comes part and parcel with rules. Why do you judge a man who cheats on his wife? Because he broke the rule of fidelity in marriage. Why do you judge a rapist? Because he broke the rule against rape.

 

[ChrisL]

Judgment comes part and parcel with rules. Why do you judge a man who cheats on his wife? Because he broke the rule of fidelity in marriage. Why do you judge a rapist? Because he broke the rule against rape.

First of all, I don't really care if a man cheats on his wife. That is not my business. If it were my husband, then I would be upset. So, no, we aren't all just jumping in to make judgments. A rapist HARMS people. A gay person does not harm anyone else. There is no NEED to judge him since his actions are harmless.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your faulty statement was about demons casting out other demons, not Satan.

Details matter.

Nope, not in the way that you are suggesting. Satan can chastise, demons can chastise demons, and you cannot (1) disprove that and (2) your misreading of the scripture has already been noted.

Biblical literalism is heresy, religious error.