Church goers must take their firearms with them to Church

[2aguy]

More Guns, Less Crime? 37 Years of Data Suggest the Opposite Is True

Donohue is a scammer....his research has actually been shown to be crap......

The flawed and misleading Donohue, Aneja, & Weber Study claiming right-to-carry laws increase violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center

The bottom line is pretty clear: Since permit holders commit virtually no crimes, right-to-carry laws can’t increase violent crime rates. You can’t get the 1.5 to 20 percent increases in violent crime rates that a few of their estimates claim with only thousandths of one percent of permit holders committing violent crimes. To put it differently, states would have to be miss reporting 99%+ of crimes committed by permit holders for their results to be possible.

------

Donohue’s papers are the only ones to claim that there have been increases in aggravated assaults after right-to-carry laws were enacted. We will discuss the problems with this claim below. But more pertinently, permit holders commit virtually no aggravated assaults, especially not aggravated assaults with a weapon.

The authors’ purported increase in violent crime is driven by aggravated assaults. No explanation is offered for why having more permits would cause more assaults. No one would suggest that permit holders are more vulnerable to assault, so the claim would have to be that permit holders are doing the assaults themselves. But this is implausible, since permit holders are virtually never convicted of aggravated assaults, let alone aggravated assaults with firearms. Concealed handgun permit holders committing crime can simply not increase either aggravated assaults or violent crime.

Permit holders commit aggravated assaults and violent felonies at rates of thousandths of one percentage point, accounting for hundredths of a percent of the violent crimes or aggravated assaults committed in a state.

On page 45, the authors claim that “official withdrawals clearly underestimate criminality by permit holders,” but they offer no evidence for this claim. The provide one case in 2013 from the Huffington Post involving two permit holders who reportedly fatally shot each other. Another case from 2000 is provided, but that permit holder was prosecuted so it isn’t clear what this reference demonstrates. The point is clear: Even if convictions of permit holders are somehow being missed by reporting agencies, the error rate would have to be truly massive to explain Donohue, Aneja, and Weber’s results.

For example, take the discussion below for Michigan where we have data on violent crimes by permit holders. During the 2015-16 year, permit holders might have accounted for 0.053% of violent crime in the state. They claim that Michigan’s violent crime rates rose by 8.8% after their right-to-carry law was adopted, that is 166 times larger than permit holder’s share of violent crimes. To put it differently, for Donohue, Aneja, and Weber’s results to be plausible, police departments would have to bemissing 99.4% of cases where permit holders have committed violent crimes. For other states the numbers below show similar results: Louisiana police would have to miss 99.5% of crimes committed by permit holders, Oklahoma would have to miss 99.93%, Tennessee 99.98%, and Texas 99.54%.

These percentages assume that no crimes are stopped or deterred by permit holders. To the extent that is true, these percentages would have to be even larger.

In any case, even our numbers overestimate any crimes that might arise from permitted concealed handguns. There are two reasons for this. First, virtually none of even these few violent crimes by permit holders were committed with guns. Second, when you are talking about 600,000 concealed handgun permit holders in Michigan at least a few of them would have committed violent crimes even if there wasn’t a right-to-carry law in the state.

 

[2aguy]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

And this is crap too......the only thing that stopped them from having mass shootings? The shooters who tried didn't kill more than 3 people, and others were stopped....

I have isolated shooting incidents in Australia that could just as easily have turned into mass shooting events....and yes, I know, you are going to move the goal posts and change the results........look below.....and the only thing that kept some of these shootings from being mass shootings is pure dumb luck...

So no, the gun confiscation in Austrulia did not stop mass shootings....dumb luck did.....since all of these shooters had no trouble getting guns.....right?


Tell me.....how is anything other than luck that kept these from being mass shootings...since the shooter obviously was able to get a gun and shoot people in gun free Australia...right?

6/5/17


‘Terror’ gunman was on parole

POLICE are investigating possible terror links to a siege in which officers gunned down one man and found another dead in Melbourne’s southeast.

A senior law enforcement figure said the gunman was on parole for a criminal offence and rated as a low-risk figure of interest to counter-terror authorities.

The Herald Sun has revealed the gunman was Yacqub Khayre, a Somali refugee who was known to counter-terrorism police.

Police shot and killed Khayre, a second man was found dead in the foyer of an apartment building in Brighton and three cops sustained gunshot wounds in the bloody hostage drama.

A male caller to the Channel 7 newsroom in Melbourne said: “This is for IS” and “this is for Al-Qaeda.” The station said a woman could be heard screaming in the background.

A Victoria Police statement confirmed police are investigating whether the incident is terrorism related.
===========

March 2016....


Number of shootings in Melbourne area continues to rise

Three people will appear in court in Geelong after shots were fired between two moving cars on Thursday night, as the problem with gun-related violence in the Melbourne area continues to escalate.

The shooting at Geelong and another separate incident at Frankston brings to 10 the number of shootings in the Melbourne and Geelong areas since February 2.

Three people were arrested after shots were fired between two moving cars just before 6:30pm at Norlane.
--------
4/28/16 gang shooting in Perth


No Cookies | Perth Now

tensions had since risen between the Rebels and the Coffin Cheaters, he said.


“That’s something that I cannot elaborate on further at this time,” Det Insp Fyfe said.

“We know both gangs were there.

“The offender or offenders, I do not believe they are a threat to the community in general.”

He said police were yet to identify a suspect, but were speaking with the two surviving victims.

Det Insp Fyfe said at least eight shots were fired from two different types of guns, one of which was a semi-automatic, and one bullet went through a car in the street, so it was fortunate no innocent bystanders were hurt.

4/28/16 port arthur shooting with assault rifle..

Man found shot in Port Arthur

Port Arthur Police are investigating a shooting at Dewalt and W. 14th Street. Police got the call at about 10:45 p.m. Thursday. When they arrived on the scene they found a 29-year-old man laying outside a car that was riddled with bullets. The man had a gunshot wound to the leg and was taken to Christus Southeast Texas St. Elizabeth in Beaumont. His injuries are not life-threatening.
Police say they believe the gun used was some sort of an assault rifle. There is no word on any suspects at this time.

----------------------
4/29/16....

'This isn't a random shooting': Man targeted in Sydney killing

A gunman is at large after a "targeted" shooting in Sydney's south-west that has left one man dead and two other people injured.
---------------------
Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

25 January 1996 – Hillcrest murders – Peter May shot and killed his three children, his estranged wife and her parents in the Brisbane suburb of Hillcrest before killing himself.[54]

• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

• • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]

• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• 9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[citation needed]

• 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[citation needed

• 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]

• 27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder – the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.

• 10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.
• 2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.

Here is a neater list.....

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia

• 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.
• 
  
• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria at La Trobe university in Melbourne, Victoria, armed with a 38-calibre revolver handgun and opened fire, killing cafeteria manager Leon Capraro and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

21st century[edit]
2000s[edit]

• 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[62][63]
• 
  
• 16 July 2001 – Peter James Knight, an anti-abortion activist, walked into an abortion clinic in East Melbourne armed with a rifle. Knight shot dead security guard Stephen Gordon Rogers and was later overpowered by staff in the abortion clinic. After his arrest, Knight was charged and convicted of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison.
• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
• 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
• 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
• 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families. Twenty-four-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom. Up to 100 shots were fired into the house by four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
• 
  
• 18 February 2006 – Cardross Hit and Run – Thomas Graham Towle crashed his car at high speed into a group of 13 teenagers, killing six and injuring seven near the town ofCardross, Victoria.[73]
• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[75]

An expidited list.....

Here is a list of shootings in Australia...notice, they are all after they banned and confiscated guns...tell me....how did Australian gun laws stop these from becoming mass shootings?

I will quote a few....read the rest....

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

If he had decided to keep shooting...would Australian gun laws have kept this from being a mass shooting?
Tell me...this doesn't count as a mass shooting...only because more of the victims didn't die...7 people shot......did Australian gun laws stop it from being a mass shooting?

• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.

Another one.....this shooter couldn't clear his rifle...so he only killed 2...the new standard for a mass shooting incident is 3 dead victims...so how did Australian gun laws keep this from being a mass shooting...rather than just dumb luck....?

• 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.

And had this guy decided to keep shooting.....would Australian gun laws have stopped him? And kept this from being a mass shooting?

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

Can you see that CNN's article is just wrong....that it implies that Australian gun control has ended their mass shootings...and that that is a lie?

And more....

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

this guy actually went into a mall......with a gun......after they banned and confiscated them...so tell me how this doesn't show that the CNN article is a lie....

• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]

How did Australian gun control laws keep this shooting from being a muslim terrorist mass shooting? An immigrant to Australia got a gun in a country where they banned and confiscated them and now claim their gun control laws have stopped mass shootings...

• 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]

And how did Australian gun control keep this shooting from being a mass shooting?

• 10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.

And had this kid walked into his school.....as a muslim immigrant and simply shot 3 kids....it would have been an act of muslim terrorism and a mass shooting ....again, luck saved Australia, not their gun control laws...

 

[2aguy]

The Clintons have never saved a single soul… Dumbass

Crime sure went down after that crime bill. FACT.

It went down as more Americans owned and carried guns...fact.

Violent crime rates up for 2nd consecutive year

And the real reason...

Hard Data, Hollow Protests



The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

We had ferguson because the police shoot lots of people. Way more than any other country. They are themselves shot way more than any other country. This is happening because we have too many guns.

The police do not shoot a lot of people.....they shoot criminals, then the left wing journalists lie about them.....

 

[2aguy]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

And this article....doesn't even cover the increase in gun crime in Australia.......from the Australian news outlets...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

 

[2aguy]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

 

[2aguy]

Looks like more guns leads to more shootings.

Except..no.


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Thanks to the Bill Clinton crime bill. But what is happening now?

Violent crime rates up for 2nd consecutive year

From your own link

But the violent crime rate remains well below historical rates. As recently as 2007, there were 1.4 million violent crimes committed across the country. The rate of violent crimes committed per 100,000 residents has declined from 611 in 1997 to 386.3 today

The gun nuts claim conecealed carry lowers crime, yet violent crime is actually going up.

No, moron.....crime in Chicago, Baltimore, D.C. are driving almost the entire increase, the very cities where the cops are acting on the Ferguson Effect.....

Crime was going down up to 2015.......as we have shown over and over again...then Ferguson happened and the police stopped being aggressive with known criminals...too bad for you we have statistics that can be posted showing exactly when the crime rate in Chicago, and Baltimore started driving the increase.

 

[2aguy]

Study: Mass Shootings ‘Exceptionally American Problem’

Yes....the British don't tend to do mass shootings, the only thing stopping them? Their nuts just don't do them....they almost had one recently but the kid changed his mind, the one before that the kid bragged about it on Facebook and got caught before he could do it...

Luck is not gun control...

Seems we are the only ones doing it so regularly. Too many guns.

WE , being law abiding gun owners, are't doing any of those things.

And we don't have too many guns we have too many criminals out on the streets because we don't lock up the violent offenders

Law abiding till they are not:
VPC: Concealed Carry Killers

And you lie again.....the Violence Policy Center link you gave has been shown to be crap....over and over again, they double count...

Bogus Gun-Control Numbers

The Violence Policy Center regularly puts out these bogus charges in a report called “Concealed Carry Killers.” But how does it claim to arrive at these numbers?

The VPC collects cases of permit holders’ abusing their permitted concealed handguns for each state.

For Michigan, for example, it cites state-police reports on permit holders indicating that 185 died from suicide during the period 2007 through 2012.

Surely some alarm bells should have gone off, with Michigan suicides supposedly making up 29 percent of all 636 deaths nationwide the VPC attributed to permitted concealed handguns.

But more importantly, the suicides are not in any meaningful way linked to the issue of carrying a permitted concealed handgun outside of one’s home.

If you look at page 2 in the latest report from the Michigan State Police, you will see that in the listing of suicides, there is no indication of specific cause of death.

The report merely notes that 56 permit holders committed suicide, without saying whether any or all of them used a gun. Interestingly, the suicide rate among permit holders in Michigan in 2010 (13.3 per 100,000 permit holders) is lower than the rate in the general adult population (16.30). But typically suicides — with or without guns — take place at home. So, again, what would these numbers have to do with the concealed-carry debate?

 

[2aguy]

The

Well we don't see mass shootings constantly in other civilized countries. Police aren't shooting people regularly either. And their police aren't constantly being gunned down.

REALLY?

Norway, Oslo/Utoeya (2011) 77
Australia, Port Arthur (1996) 35
Brazil (1997) 17
Scotland, Dunblane (1996) 17
Germany, Erfurt (2002) 16
England, Hungerford (1987) 16
Germany, Winnenden (2009) 15
Switzerland, Zug (2001) 14
New Zealand, Aramoana (1990) 13
France, Toulon (1995) 13
Azerbaijan, Baku (2009) 12
Finland, Kauhajok (2008) 10
Canada, Montreal (1989) 9
France, Nanterre (2002) 8
Finland, Tuusula (2007) 8
Japan, Osaka (2001) 8

Do some research

Australia's Gun Laws May Have Stopped Mass Shootings, Study Finds

LOL, You are relying on an NBC News story!
Why not the NY Times or WAPO.
All very leftist rags.

Post all the Australia mass shootings this year. We will compare to US.

No one cares about Australia. But so you know, school massacres in countries where folks can't own guns is common. Bombs are popular and they are completely impossible to "ban" or in anyway prevent from getting into the wrong hands. She do people are the issue not the guns.

Australia has had shootings that would have been mass shootings if the killer had only killed 3 people......I listed all of them, and there are a lot...the only thing that stopped the killer, his intent, and luck on the part of victims.....the anti gunners keep lying about mass shootings in Australia, thinking they can hide Good Luck, rather than their laws that kept people alive...

 

[2aguy]

And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact

well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...

So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.

<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

More Guns, Less Crime? 37 Years of Data Suggest the Opposite Is True

Donohue is a scammer....his research has actually been shown to be crap......

The flawed and misleading Donohue, Aneja, & Weber Study claiming right-to-carry laws increase violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center

The bottom line is pretty clear: Since permit holders commit virtually no crimes, right-to-carry laws can’t increase violent crime rates. You can’t get the 1.5 to 20 percent increases in violent crime rates that a few of their estimates claim with only thousandths of one percent of permit holders committing violent crimes. To put it differently, states would have to be miss reporting 99%+ of crimes committed by permit holders for their results to be possible.

------

Donohue’s papers are the only ones to claim that there have been increases in aggravated assaults after right-to-carry laws were enacted. We will discuss the problems with this claim below. But more pertinently, permit holders commit virtually no aggravated assaults, especially not aggravated assaults with a weapon.

The authors’ purported increase in violent crime is driven by aggravated assaults. No explanation is offered for why having more permits would cause more assaults. No one would suggest that permit holders are more vulnerable to assault, so the claim would have to be that permit holders are doing the assaults themselves. But this is implausible, since permit holders are virtually never convicted of aggravated assaults, let alone aggravated assaults with firearms. Concealed handgun permit holders committing crime can simply not increase either aggravated assaults or violent crime.

Permit holders commit aggravated assaults and violent felonies at rates of thousandths of one percentage point, accounting for hundredths of a percent of the violent crimes or aggravated assaults committed in a state.

On page 45, the authors claim that “official withdrawals clearly underestimate criminality by permit holders,” but they offer no evidence for this claim. The provide one case in 2013 from the Huffington Post involving two permit holders who reportedly fatally shot each other. Another case from 2000 is provided, but that permit holder was prosecuted so it isn’t clear what this reference demonstrates. The point is clear: Even if convictions of permit holders are somehow being missed by reporting agencies, the error rate would have to be truly massive to explain Donohue, Aneja, and Weber’s results.

For example, take the discussion below for Michigan where we have data on violent crimes by permit holders. During the 2015-16 year, permit holders might have accounted for 0.053% of violent crime in the state. They claim that Michigan’s violent crime rates rose by 8.8% after their right-to-carry law was adopted, that is 166 times larger than permit holder’s share of violent crimes. To put it differently, for Donohue, Aneja, and Weber’s results to be plausible, police departments would have to bemissing 99.4% of cases where permit holders have committed violent crimes. For other states the numbers below show similar results: Louisiana police would have to miss 99.5% of crimes committed by permit holders, Oklahoma would have to miss 99.93%, Tennessee 99.98%, and Texas 99.54%.

These percentages assume that no crimes are stopped or deterred by permit holders. To the extent that is true, these percentages would have to be even larger.

In any case, even our numbers overestimate any crimes that might arise from permitted concealed handguns. There are two reasons for this. First, virtually none of even these few violent crimes by permit holders were committed with guns. Second, when you are talking about 600,000 concealed handgun permit holders in Michigan at least a few of them would have committed violent crimes even if there wasn’t a right-to-carry law in the state.

That's a terribly fallacious argument, sprinkled with a few outright lies. No, the original study still stands.

 

[Coyote]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

He went to church regularly etc. believed in Jesus and the Bible. Called himself a Christian. Even Christians commit murder you know.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"
show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people."

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.(Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

-Evil Bible

 

[Coyote]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

You lying just for practice ?

Read about him. Personal turmoil weighed on Nashville church shooting suspect

“His favorite book is the Bible,” she said. “Every time you talk to him, he always mentioned the word of God."

 

[2aguy]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact

well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...

So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.

<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

No...wrong.....they implemented them to take guns away from people...then their gun crime rates went up. Just like they have in Britain...low gun violence when they had guns...now their gun violence rates are going up.

 

[2aguy]

"
show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people."

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.(Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

-Evil Bible

Yeah...again....where does Jesus say to murder innocent people....

 

[2aguy]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

He went to church regularly etc. believed in Jesus and the Bible. Called himself a Christian. Even Christians commit murder you know.

No...Christians do not.....it is not in the teachings of Jesus...you know, where "Christianity" came from....please show us where Jesus told his followers to murder innocent people....who were Christians no less.

 

[2aguy]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

He went to church regularly etc. believed in Jesus and the Bible. Called himself a Christian. Even Christians commit murder you know.

I can call myself a Vegan....but if I eat steak, I am not a Vegan, am I?

 

[Coyote]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

He went to church regularly etc. believed in Jesus and the Bible. Called himself a Christian. Even Christians commit murder you know.

I can call myself a Vegan....but if I eat steak, I am not a Vegan, am I?

Vegan is pretty strictly defined. I suppose you can "fall" and eat steak, then repent...just like a Christian can "fall" and murder someone and then repent...or something.

Religion covers a wide range and what's more often contradicts itself in it's own text.

 

[Coyote]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

He went to church regularly etc. believed in Jesus and the Bible. Called himself a Christian. Even Christians commit murder you know.

No...Christians do not.....it is not in the teachings of Jesus...you know, where "Christianity" came from....please show us where Jesus told his followers to murder innocent people....who were Christians no less.

Unfortunately, Christians are still stuck with the OT. That's why we have nutty judges insisting on enshrining the Ten Commandments and call homosexuality an "abomination" and some Christian majority countries want to bring back the death penalty. So what's the real Christian if it's all there in the text?

He called himself a Christian, spoke of it often, read the bible, went to church, practiced his faith. Until he shot up a church.