Clearing up a misconception atheists have about practicing Christians

[daveman]

Do you believe humans are causing global warming?

Don't know. There were great changes in climate long before humans became a factor. What I do know is that government cannot do anything about climate. If our government can take care of our rain forests; it they can take care of the pollution pouring into and out of the Far East, I am all in favor of that. Do I believe government can do anything about these things? Doubtful. They can't even get children back in the classroom. Private organizations can. Perhaps government should call on private organizations to help with pollution in the Far East and managing rain forests and then bow out. All they seem to be able to accomplish is stirring up mud and playing political games. Wish they would go join the reindeer who are known to be adept at reindeer games. Maybe they could learn something from that exercise, and in the meantime get out of our way.

theres another problem with Christians. They’d rather have a big daddy telling them how things are going to be. Not how a democracy works. I’d rather we the people be in charge. We farm the work out to private businesses when it makes sense but they aren’t in charge we are.

You guys like your leaders telling you what to do. In fact I bet many of you would appreciate a putin type leader. As long as he shares your “values”

You know nothing about Christians.

Funny how totalitarian regimes always seem to be leftist.

 

[daveman]

Because at the time these texts were written you were enslaved if you lost a war.

Something we wouldn’t do today.

Well, "we" might not but it is very much a continued practice in other areas of the world.

Funny there are so many Christians in America but very few in the part of the world Jesus supposedly lived.

Because they were routed or killed by Islam.

 

[Meriweather]

These are simple questions one should expect a child to ask. One should have answers prepared for these questions. Instead, I was made to feel like even asking these questions was evil in and of itself. I was rebuffed and chastised for my curiosity and critical thought.

It occurred to me, even at that young age, that, possibly or even likely, the pastor threw his little fits because he didn't have a leg to stand on. While this did not make me doubt theism, it did make me step back and doubt the dogma not just in Christianity, but in all the religions.

As a child you could not be expected to know that fitting animals in an ark is far from what the story was about--that your teachers were not using a very good approach addressing the lessons of the flood. You knew enough to ask questions, but they were far from being the right questions. The problem is of still asking the wrong questions. It is kind of like asking questions about cooking during PE.

Instead of pursuing the true themes of these stories and the correct questions, your interests took you elsewhere, not a bad thing. Just don't think your childish questions prove anything except an ignorance of religion. Again, not a bad thing because no one can be knowledgeable of everything. We shouldn't, however, pretend that childhood catechism classes makes one an expert on religion/faith any more than having sung childhood songs makes us opera stars.

 

[daveman]

Then your issue is not relevant.

What issue? Please be more specific. There are no mind readers, here.

Secular reform has been working on it for centuries. We haven't crossed the finish line, yet. See: Judge Barrett.

Say, did you guys ever find a decision she made based on her faith and not the law? Because so far...you haven't.

 

[daveman]

The only "issue" this atheist has with Christians is the same issue I have with any religious person or group. Hitchens said it well:

'Have your toys. Play with your toys and enjoy your toys. You are welcome to them. But do not try to make me play with the toys. Do not bring the toys to my house, and do not try to use force of government to make me or my family play with your toys.

Otherwise, carry on. Enjoy your toys. I won't stop you.'

As with any American (being that the US is the most religious of any first world country, by far), I know and love many Christians. Being that I live where the biggest population of Burmese outside of Myanmar live, the same goes for Buddhists. Jews, too. We seem to get along just fine.

Odd, then, how leftists seem to have a great desire to use the force of government to dictate to others what toys they may have and play with.

 

[Meriweather]

I've not seen much debate from you, in this thread or any other. It's all "Ur STOOpid if you dont agree with me!!!!"

I will respectfully disagree with this assessment of sealybobo. He knows his own mind, he is articulate, and while he and I disagree about a lot of things, he does fine in holding up his part of the discussion. I recommend it is well worth your time to slowly come to know him better.

 

[Disir]

Then your issue is not relevant.

What issue? Please be more specific. There are no mind readers, here.

Secular reform has been working on it for centuries. We haven't crossed the finish line, yet. See: Judge Barrett.

Say, did you guys ever find a decision she made based on her faith and not the law? Because so far...you haven't.

You know they didn't. He just does what he is told.

 

[daveman]

I've not seen much debate from you, in this thread or any other. It's all "Ur STOOpid if you dont agree with me!!!!"

I will respectfully disagree with this assessment of sealybobo. He knows his own mind, he is articulate, and while he and I disagree about a lot of things, he does fine in holding up his part of the discussion. I recommend it is well worth your time to slowly come to know him better.

This ain't my first rodeo.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You knew enough to ask questions, but they were far from being the right questions.

A perfect example of exactly what i am saying. You do it without even realizing it. You blow off these questions at the peril of losing followers of your religion. Such a thing tells a child your dogma and magical claims cannot be scrutinized the way everything else is scrutinized. A child that is inquisitive has already grown tired of adults ramming "Because i said so" down his throat. If the pastor had any guts or intellectual fortitude whatsoever, he would reward such curiosity with, "You have a point, it is impossible by every physical law we know. Here is why i believe it and why you should, too:...." It seems clear the Pastor sensed that his own, aelf appointed authority and that granted to the Bible was all he had to stand on, and that a skeptical child will not be satisfied with such an answer. As important, the pastor clearly sensed that i might have "corrupted" the other children by being allowed to force answers to these questions. He said as much to my parents. He wasn't going to allow me to be confirmed. My parents talked him out of this. I am guessing a check written to the church may have had something to do with that.

A child can sense the bullshit. A child can compare and contrast the different approaches between a kind person willing to explain things, and a strident, impatient person that blows them off. And a child can easily see which subjects in life seem to more often fall into which category, even if the child doesn't yet understand why that happens.

 

[Meriweather]

This ain't my first rodeo.

Grin. With over 63,000 posts, I imagine not. I don't even have a tenth of your posts. Even so, I like sealybobo. He gives great insight into the side of the spectrum of which I am not a part.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Say, did you guys ever find a decision she made based on her faith and not the law?

Ask me again in a few years. She gained her status via her cultish religious views. So i imagine it is inevitable. When you hire someone for one specific reason, you expect them to follow through on that. That's reasonable.

 

[Meriweather]

A perfect example of exactly what i am saying. You do it without even realizing it. You blow off these questions at the peril of losing followers of your religion. Such a thing tells a child your dogma and magical claims cannot be scrutinized the way everything else is scrutinized. A child that is inquisitive has already grown tired of adults ramming "Because i said so" down his throat. If the paator had any guts or intellectual fortitude whatsoever, he would reward such curiosity with, "You have a point, it is impossible by every physical law we know. Here is why i believe it and why you should, too:...."

As you may have noticed, I agreed with you here. The Pastor didn't notice you were on a different train of thought. These types of questions are a cinch to answer, validating your scientific inquiries and then returning to the actual theme of the story. In other circumstances you might have left class satisfied on two levels. I am sorry that was not the case. You needed a Rabbi, not a Pastor.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

, then, how leftists seem to have a great desire to use the force of government to dictate to others what toys they may have and play with.

This comment makes the obviously false assumption that leftism and the ideas expressed by Hitchens are somehow equivalent or interchangeable. Most tu quoque points are exceedingly weak. Yours is weaker than most.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Pastor didn't notice you were on a different train of thought.

He absolutely did and threatened not only not to confirm me but to prevent me from attending the church over it. He absolutely noticed. He viewed me as a threat. An inquisitive child asking the most OBVIOUS of questions. A threat.

"If am eating human flesh, does that make me a cannibal? Why not?"

He tossed me into the hall for that one. Tossed me out of a class whose one purpose was to prepare me to accept the sacrament of consuming Christ's flesh.

Never offered to give me private time to answer the questions. To him, i was a threat. I have to wonder if I didn't hit a little too close to home and make him secretly question some of his own faith based beliefs. I sure hope so.

 

[Meriweather]

, then, how leftists seem to have a great desire to use the force of government to dictate to others what toys they may have and play with.

This comment makes the obviously false assumption that leftism and the ideas expressed by Hitchens are somehow equivalent or interchangeable. Most tu quoque points are exceedingly weak. Yours is weaker than most.

No, they are not. Listen.

 

[Meriweather]

He absolutely did and threatened not only not to confirm me but to prevent me from attending the church over it. He absolutely noticed. He viewed me as a threat. An inquisitive child asking the most OBVIOUS of questions. A threat.

You were only a threat to his own lack of knowledge. You were no threat to religion, no threat to science. When you were older, you pursued science and left religion behind. Especially noticeable when you are still wondering how all the animals fit into the ark.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

, then, how leftists seem to have a great desire to use the force of government to dictate to others what toys they may have and play with.

This comment makes the obviously false assumption that leftism and the ideas expressed by Hitchens are somehow equivalent or interchangeable. Most tu quoque points are exceedingly weak. Yours is weaker than most.

No, they are not. Listen.

The statistics of the number of Christians in America and the number of leftists, coupled with the simple pigeon hole principle, shows his assumption is clearly false. And that his tu quoque point is based on utter nonsense. More leftists in this country identify as Christian than not.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You were only a threat to his own lack of knowledge.

No. Sorry. You don't get to impose your preferences and equivocation on him. He was very clear what the threat was. He had dedicated his life to the study of the dogma and knew absolutely why such myths appear physically impossible. He was a Young Earth Creationist and saw me as a lost cause that was a threat to his congregation due to carrying and being able to explain/argue for beliefs that align with our best scientific knowledge. Try as you might to excuse or romanticize his abhorrent behavior, there is nowhere to wedge in your equivocation. He was crystal clear on this.

 

[Meriweather]

No. Sorry. You don't get to impose your preferences and equivocation on him. He was very clear what the threat was. He had dedicated his life to the study of the dogma and knew absolutely why such myths appear physically impossible. Try as you might to excuse or romanticize his abhorrent behavior, there is nowhere to wedge in your equivocation. He was crystal clear on this.

I am not imposing my preferences. I am stating he did not fully understand the story of the flood. The probable reason for that lack of understanding is his lack of knowledge of the Hebrew language. I'm betting he went with the King James English. Had he delved more deeply into learning about the story, your questions would not have "threatened" anyone or anything.

 

[daveman]

This ain't my first rodeo.

Grin. With over 63,000 posts, I imagine not. I don't even have a tenth of your posts. Even so, I like sealybobo. He gives great insight into the side of the spectrum of which I am not a part.